What changes to deceased/determinant/unknown characters would you make if you could change things?

dan290786dan290786 Banned
edited July 2016 in The Walking Dead

It's sad knowing Clem is the only certain season 1 character still alive. Does anyone else feel that more characters from Season 1 should have survived the whole of the season or lasted an episode or 2 longer? Same with the new characters in Season 2? Or do you feel the characters deaths/exits fitted perfectly? What are your thoughts?

Personally i would have liked a similar format to the tv show, have most of the group survive a season, then have a few die in the next, then new ones join and they live out the season. That would give us more time to appreciate/love/hate a character we get familiar with. Sometimes i felt they killed off characters in the game for the sake of killing.

This will be a long post and trust me on this, it will be REALLY long so i'll understand if you don't read all of it but I'm going to share my ideas on what i would have loved to have seen involving some (not all) deceased/determinant/unknown status characters if they had survived/lasted longer and what they could have brought further to the story or how the general game story changed. Feel free to agree/disagree and please by all means, share your own ideas as well and we'll compare:

Season 1

Doug (if chosen over Carley)

  • Doug eventually becomes Lee's right hand man. This may sound silly but this could over time have given Doug more potential and have him adapt more to what's around him with having the ability to use guns as he wasn't great around them or walkers previously. This could begin after he shot one of the bandits during the motor inn raid.

  • The Lilly shooting Doug scene never happens obviously. Instead Lilly is left behind at the motor inn thus slightly changing her exit but ultimately writing her out of the game.

  • Lee teaches Clem AND Doug to fire a gun properly on the train. This would lead on to make Doug a more capable member of the group.

  • More background to Doug's life/family before the apocalypse. He tells you more about his uncle he lived with or more about his technical ability with computers/machines etc. Depending on choices such as being good to him like giving him food in Starved For Help or comforting him during the conversation they had in Long Road Ahead about Doug feeling helpless, he will tell you more personal things because he trusts you.

  • Doug and Omid form a bond after sharing various things in common. Doug joins up with Omid to also learn how to operate the train.

  • Unimportant thing to add but when choosing to save Omid or Christa with helping them onto the train, whoever Lee chooses to help, Doug helps the other with some dialogue changes.

  • During the choice whether to bring Clem to Crawford or not, Doug joins the conversation and offers to stay behind to look after Omid and determinant Clementine but only if Lee is ok with it in which a choice occurs of whether to bring Doug to Crawford or let him stay.

  • If Doug goes to Crawford with you, there will be a choice of whether Doug keeps an eye on Ben in the classroom due to earlier trust issues or for Doug to keep a look out in the Crawford hallway (similar to his look out duties at the drugstore) whilst everyone is getting the medicine and supplies for the boat. If chosen the latter, then Doug will later help Lee take out the walkers that trapped Vernon and Christa.

  • Because of how stupid the whole "hatchet stuck in the door handle" scene was (let's face it, even Ben wouldn't be that much of an idiot right? I'm sure you all agree), this idea is scrapped, so Doug is still watching the hallway and as Molly and Lee are heading back (and after small dialogue with Doug), the walkers then finally smash through regardless of the hatchet (because they realistically would have).

  • If Doug went to Crawford with you, when escaping Crawford, he loses his pistol running up to the top of the bell tower. When Ben is attacked by Oberson at the top, Lee runs out of ammo (yes from his unlimited Hershel shotgun weapon haha), Doug is there and rushes to pull Oberson off of Ben who gets to safety with Lee as we see the deck collapse beneath Doug, sadly falling to his heroic death. There is no longer a "pull him up or let him go" choice for Ben who survives to the next episode no matter what.

  • Dialogue options about Doug's death in saving Ben when talking to Clementine and/or the group back at the mansion.

  • If you left Doug at the mansion to look after Omid then after Clementine goes missing, Lee finds Doug dead outside in the garden next to Clementine's hat. It is later revealed that the Stranger killed him due to his interference in trying to stop Clem from leaving with him.

  • Dialogue occurs as soon as the rest of the group discover what had happened to Doug. Short scene later in Episode 5 of Lee burying him before the walkers attack at the mansion.

Carley (if chosen over Doug)

  • Carley to have started a relationship with Lee or be given the choice of a romance to start depending on earlier choices with how you treated her for example, trusting her with your secret or comforting words about saving her instead of Doug. This could happen or not happen just before the motor inn is raided.

  • Same as with Doug, the Lilly shooting Carley scene never happens. Lilly is left behind at the motor inn.

  • Have a Carley or Clem type choice later on to show Lee's struggle who to look out for given his feelings for both characters for example, agreeing with Clem to look for her parents or agree with Carley to stay the course on finding the boat.

  • Depending on choices of whether you started a romance with Carley or not, she will go against Lee in a certain situation similar to a Lilly/Kenny type personality (not leaving Lee to die or anything like that but something negative), although this kind of goes against Carley's personality but who's to say she wouldn't have another side to her?

  • Carley and Christa form a bond similar to if it were Doug and Omid. Carley will join up with Clem and Christa and appear to be getting on well during their conversation with each other.

  • Same as with Doug, there is a choice whether or not Lee would like Carley to stay and look after Omid and determinant Clementine. The dialogue and scene will be slightly different depending on whether or not you started a relationship with her, for example, dialogue from Lee would be more caring about her wellbeing and vice versa (if in a romance) or would just be a normal concern if otherwise and if she stays at the mansion, they kiss each other goodbye or don't if not in a relationship.

  • More background to Carley's life/family before the apocalypse. She'll tell you more of her job with WABE, perhaps a certain case she reported on that could be told as part of a nice conversation. Depending on the romance/relationship choice, or how you treated Carley over the course of the game such as offering her food in Starved For Help or trusting her with your secret, Carley will tell Lee personal things about her life but won't if otherwise.

  • Again, same with the Doug choices, Lee chooses whether to have Carley stay in the classroom with Ben or keep an eye out in the Crawford hallway and also like with Doug, she helps Lee kill the walkers by the medical room if the latter choice is chosen.

  • If Carley went to Crawford, she will have the same death as Doug falling from the bell tower saving Ben, the only difference being Lee's reaction to her death, one being very upset at losing his girlfriend, the other being less upset but of course still very sad all depending on your past choices with her. Later at the mansion upon telling the group of her death, everyone is saddened at hearing the news especially a visibly distraught Christa.

  • If Carley didn't go to Crawford, then she (like Doug) would also receive the same death being killed by the Stranger trying to stop him taking Clementine.

  • And once again as before, some dialogue occurs as soon as the rest of the group discover what had happened to Carley. Short scene later in Episode 5 of Lee burying her before the walkers attack at the mansion.

Mark

  • At the start of Starved For Help, the scene of cutting David's leg off or Travis accidentally getting shot still happens but instead of them dying later, Katjaa manages to save David or Travis depending on your choice. Ben will then mention his relief at David/Travis not dying due to the fact they would have turned as it is not the bite that does it. Larry/Kenny and/or determinant Lee can be annoyed at not knowing this as they were all in danger from not knowing. The point of all i've mentioned above is because with David/Travis alive, this will change things drastically for Mark later.

  • This leads to whichever one was saved making it to the St John's dairy and instead of Mark being shot with an arrow, David or Travis do which then proceeds to the same events that occur later.

  • Depending who you saved, Travis will have both legs chopped off like Mark's was, David though, will have an arm and a leg gone instead.

  • More background to Mark's life/family before the apocalypse and more info about the time they found him during the 3 month time gap.

  • Mark is trapped in the meat locker with the others. Extra dialogue options for when/if you speak to him.

  • When Larry collapses, Mark will give his opinion on the fact they should help Larry and tells Lee "we know he's been a dick to you, but you should do the right thing" (words to that effect), however, he also says that he'll stand by him whatever he decides to do.

  • If Lee helps Lilly with Larry, Mark will assist. He will speak of his annoyance or more so his disappointment of Kenny's actions for the way he killed Larry/stopped him from turning and that he would have tried to stop him if he had noticed Kenny with the salt lick.

  • If Lee helps Kenny, Mark will comfort Clementine as it happens and we hear him telling her "keep your eyes closed Clementine, it will all be over soon" (words to that effect). Mark will tell Lee of his disappointment in his decision (as he gave his opinion about it before as i mentioned) but understands that it was necessary and he just wished Kenny would have done something less extreme as well as in front of Lilly and partially Clementine.

  • When they escape the meat locker, Mark stays behind with Lilly and Clementine.

  • Mark is with Kenny and Lee at the beginning of Long Road Ahead. Mark decides to check out one of the buildings in case anything was missed on a previous visit to Macon. He finds the girl who then runs out of the building screaming as he shouts "i'm not one of the dead! Let me help you!" (or words to that effect), as the walkers come out to all the commotion. Kenny and a determinant Lee choice shouts to Mark to leave or help her. If Lee tells Mark to help her, he will grab the girls hand and try to pull her to safety. If Lee tells him to leave her, Mark will hesitate and question Lee's decision. Regardless of the choice, the girl is shortly devoured as Mark runs to where Kenny and Lee are and get into the drugstore to get the supplies. There is no longer a choice to shoot or leave the girl.

  • Due to the fact there is no longer the above choice, the time in which to get the supplies is shortened the same as if you had shot the girl in the official game choice. When the door falls on top of Lee, the original scene of whether Kenny helps Lee or not will still happen only this time Mark is there and helps Lee no matter what and will scold Kenny if he didn't help. Later on at the motor inn, dialogue with Mark discusses the earlier events such as regret of not doing more to help the girl in the street, Kenny's (and determinant Lee's) actions with Larry and because of it, his concern for Lilly's state of mind.

  • When the bandits attack the motor inn, the bandit leader will shoot Mark in the head to set an example of how serious they are with their threats. This only happens however depending on what dialogue Lee chooses. If Lee says "somebody do something!" or "our group won't bend easily to threats", Mark attempts something heroic which resorts in his death. If Lee chooses the other option (other than staying silent), Mark will live and Lilly will shoot the bandit leader as normal in the game and the group scatter.

  • As mentioned earlier in my post, Lilly is left behind at the motor inn when the group escape. If Mark wasn't shot by the bandit leader, then he too is left behind leaving his fate also uncertain. He is last seen hiding behind cover as both he and Lilly watch the RV drive away.

  • After escaping the motor inn, the group mourn the loss of Mark or the regret of leaving him and Lilly behind.

Ben & Kenny

  • Everything to do with Ben's character will all be the same as in the original game except that as i mentioned earlier, he does not die from the bell tower, he lives into Episode 5. His death will happen the same way it normally does except that when Kenny tells Lee to go, if Lee refuses, they argue and Lee will actually pull Kenny to safety, as the walkers will devour Ben alive. If he agrees to go, then Kenny will mercy kill Ben and be "lost to the herd" like in the original game.

  • If Lee dragged Kenny to safety, then extra dialogue will occur about Ben's death and how they should have had least put him out of his misery before he was devoured. After this, the game progresses as normal. Kenny saves Christa's life and is lost to the herd.

Every other character i think i would leave as they are but if I think of anything later i will update this.

Season 2

To anyone still reading, thanks for your patience. Again i apologise that it may be long winded. For the rest of my post i will explain a lot of (or only some) changes within the story but the major thing to be included in this will be about Omid and Christa:

All That Remains

  • The opening scene to All That Remains is exactly the same and plays out the way it originally does. However, Omid does not get shot, it is Christa who walks in on the girl holding Clem at gunpoint and she shoots Christa. Omid runs in, sees what happens and instead of shooting the girl (as I feel it's not quite in his nature to kill someone point blank despite what happened), he angrily tells the girl to leave quickly or threatens to shoot her, so the girl leaves in fear dropping Clem's gun. Luckily Christa isn't dead but we find out (or it is very heavily implied) that she lost the baby because of the gunshot.

  • 16 month time jump happens as normal as we see Christa, Omid and Clem in the woods together trying to survive. Omid is cracking jokes as usual as we see a heartwarming scene of laughter within the group, Christa making fun of Omid, Clem laughing etc., until he accidentally makes a reference to his and Christa's baby which sours the conversation. Christa goes out to search for more firewood like in the game.

  • We can determinantly find out more about Omid and Christa's life if the player wishes it. Dialogue that Omid says could be what he and Christa did for a living, more about their home in San Francisco, their pet cat, or a story about what he and Christa did one day on a trip out or something, perhaps similar to Christa telling Lee about Omid's licence being suspended twice (anything like that by the way is something i love when they add to games like this). Also Omid can mention something like "we were lucky as hell to find that medical building" (which had things to save Christa's life). I know it's far fetched but it's a game right?

  • The convo ends suddenly hearing that Christa has been ambushed by the guys in the woods like in the game. After some brief dialogue, Omid and Clem quietly decide what they should do. Whatever dialogue choice is chosen, Omid will shoot one of the guys in the leg which allows Christa to get away as the men pay more attention to someone shooting at them obviously. Omid tells Clem to run and the 3 split up. Clem, like in the game, washes up ashore alone as the game plays out the same up until the scene where Pete/Luke find her, except instead of them being the ones finding her, it is actually Omid and Christa who do, much to Clem's delight before passing out from the dog bite.

  • Clem awakens as Omid and Christa check if she's ok and comment on the bite they found. Clem can determinantly tell them the truth or not. Regardless of what you choose, they know it was a dog bite because Christa tells her that Omid was bitten by a dog once after he saved their cat from being mauled and the bite looked identical to Clem's. If you lied to them, Christa or Omid will say "it's ok, you didn't have to lie. We wouldn't have turned against you Clem. When we found out that Lee was bit we stood by him and you know we'd do the same for you".

  • Clem, Omid and Christa walk, killing a few walkers along the way, until they reach the cabin. Alvin is the first to notice them and greets them kindly but with suspicion as the rest of the group shortly come out of the house to see what's going on and a hostile Rebecca confronts them and begins talking shit to Christa and Omid and refusing to help Clem who like in the actual game believes she is bitten by a walker. The rest of the scene plays out pretty much the same as it originally does. Nick stupidly shoots his gun almost killing Clem which causes anger from Omid/Christa. Carlos inspects the bite and is unsure if it really is a dog bite in which Christa angrily protests against his decision as she knows exactly what it looks like. Despite this, the cabin survivors insist on locking Clem in the shed and tell Omid and Christa that they are welcome to stay in the cabin overnight but will be watched at all times. They of course refuse to leave Clem on her own and end up staying inside the shed with her.

  • The shed is slightly larger than the original one from the game due to Omid and Christa's existence. After discussing what they should do, the original scene plays out as Clem heads out to search for things to patch herself up despite Omid and Christa disagreeing with her.

  • Clem later makes it back to the shed and Christa starts sorting the needle and thread she found and tells Clem "remember how i showed you? You need to learn to do this yourself" and then she could mention a line about how her mother taught her or she learnt during a first aid class or something along those lines. Whilst Christa is showing/reminding Clem how to stitch herself up, a walker grabs Omid's leg as Christa and Clem try to get it off of him as another walker crawls in and attacks Clem. Clem will kill the walker like she does originally and Christa/Omid do the same to the other one. The cabin survivors open the shed after all the noise and now let them in the house.

  • The original scene plays out the same apart from extra dialogue with Omid and Christa. Carlos apologises for not believing them but still scolds Clem for persuading Sarah to get her the things she needed. During the conversation with Luke at the table, the 3 reminisce about their past lives briefly before telling Luke about Lee and the people they were surviving with. The dialogue during this scene is explained in more detail than in the actual game and we find out more about the other characters as well. They console Nick for the loss of his mother and Clem can either accept or refuse his apology like in the game. Rebecca later enters and is still being bitchy and untrustworthy. Christa will mention her pregnancy after noticing Rebecca's bump and begins to get upset as losing her baby the way she did still visably upsets her. Rebecca shows her kind side and looks sad for her as the scene ends.

  • Next day, scene plays out the same as Clem goes with Pete and Nick to the river. Dialogue explains that Christa and Omid stayed behind to help out round the house and Clem was happy to go. Apart from the changed dialogue, everything else remains the same.

A House Divided

  • A House Divided begins exactly the same way and with your choices depending if you chose Nick or Pete except this time we find out a lot more info about Nick/Pete's life including even more about the other cabin survivors (development i feel they never got enough of). When Clem makes it back to the cabin, Carlos/Rebecca tells Clem that Luke and the others went out looking for you including Christa and Omid. Normal gameplay resumes until after Carver leaves. The cabin survivors arrive back and Christa/Omid look relieved to see Clem, the 2 of them hug her (aww! More hugs in this game right guys? Lol) as they are obviously closer to her. Normal gameplay resumes but with some changed dialogue with Christa/Omid.

  • Once again, normal gameplay continues upon the group finding Nick or Pete depending on your choices with more changed dialogue to include Christa/Omid's comments on the situation/characters etc. as the group make it later to the bridge.

  • Bridge scene also continues as normal, Luke and Clem take out the walkers as Christa/Omid stay behind with the others. The Nick shooting Matthew scene happens as usual as the group angrily reacts to his actions with obvious extra dialogue from Christa/Omid. After Clem examines Matthew's cabin and the walkers attack from the bridge, Omid and Christa stay behind to keep them busy.

  • At the lodge after Clem reunites with Kenny, Christa and Omid turn up after dealing with the walkers at the bridge and also see Kenny alive to their surprise/disbelief. Inside the lodge when Nick and the group don't want to put their weapons down, Christa/Omid will tell them they can trust Kenny etc. We have a nice scene of the guys catching up since they last saw each other. Christa or Omid will say how they just can't believe he's alive and ask how he survived and unlike the "i got lucky, real lucky" crap you get in the actual game, this time he explains how he got out after trying to save Ben (as i mentioned earlier, there is no scene anymore where Kenny tries to save Christa instead). Possibly showing a flashback to what happened or he tells them how he managed to dive through a window to safety or he somehow pushed his way through the herd. The 3 also reminisce about Lee a lot more and maybe bring up other past characters.

  • After the long convo, Christa checks on Rebecca, Omid talks to Walt with Clem. A funny scene occurs with Omid trying Walt's peaches and beans and loves it. He references Christa's cooking to be really bad compared to this and to keep that a secret between them. When Clem goes upstairs, Christa is making sure Rebecca is feeling ok and promises that she will help her deliver the baby when the time comes. Clem is able to talk with Carlos/Alvin/Rebecca/Sarita/Walt to find out more about them unlike in the actual game.

  • At the dinner table scene, Kenny/Luke signal to Clem, Omid and Christa to sit with them. Christa tells Clem that they'll sit wherever Clem does. Usual choice now occurs. More dialogue of convo between them such as Kenny will ask Clem about Luke as usual but also say "what about you Christa? Omid? Do you guys trust him too?" etc. Another funny moment shows Omid scoffing down the food as Christa tells Omid "stop being such a pig Omid! I wish you liked my cooking this much". Nick and Luke then sit at Kenny's table (or the other way round if you sat with Luke) as usual. The argument breaks out between Nick and Kenny as Omid/Christa try to keep the peace and look very concerned when Kenny calls Clem Duck (i think it is assumed Christa and Omid were told that Kenny's son was called Duck right? So i think they know he called her by his son's name). Clem goes outside with Walt and the next scene plays out as normal with some changed dialogue with Walt saying Clem and Christa/Omid are welcome to stay if the cabin survivors wish to move on.

  • Back inside, Luke shows Clem the picture of Matthew as usual except this time Christa and Omid join the convo and find out about it too. When or if Nick finds out, Omid tries to calm him down. Scene plays out as normal, the choice of whether Nick lives or not still occurs. When the turbine spins out of control, instead of Clem turning it off (because one thing that annoyed me in S2 was the group always relying on an 11 year old girl for everything), Omid offers to shut it down whilst Christa, Clem and the others keep a lookout. Extra dialogue options between the characters, perhaps Nick or Carlos can mention some history of a similar situation they were in, something that can give us some imagination you know what i mean? The rest of the scene plays out as normal apart from a few changed things to once again include Christa/Omid. The walkers invade, Clem shoots a few walkers, runs out of ammo, either Omid or Christa gives her more ammo, she shoots some more before a walker sneaks up behind her but is saved by someone (could be anyone, it doesn't have to be Omid or Christa). Nick's fate will as always be determinant. Eventually Carvers gang turn up and takes them all prisoner including Omid and Christa whilst Clem goes inside the lodge as the rest of the episode plays out the same way but with extra dialogue from Omid and Christa during the final scene. Walter will die and Alvin will be determinant as normal.

In Harm's Way

Big, big changes ahead although most of this episode will play out pretty much the same way as it originally does apart from the ending which will be explained shortly. Also something to mention regarding 400 Days and the determinant choice of whether the characters go with Tavia to Howe's or not. In this version of my game ideas, all the characters go with Tavia regardless as unlike in the original game, these characters will actually have more relevance than just a one line cameo.

  • There will be extra dialogue with Christa/Omid throughout including more hubs being able to speak to all characters when locked in the "pen" and actually giving us some decent conversations between characters and any extra knowledge about their backgrounds. Nick for example will not just be a background character (or at least not too badly as he will be involved more in scenes). Jane will also be someone we can get to know better in this episode rather than in the later episodes.

  • There will be a scene where Clem talks to Omid and for the first time since knowing him, he actually starts shedding some tears and tells Clem that for the first time in a long time, he has lost hope in the world they live in and the loss of their baby still affects him and is worried about Christa's state of mind as she hasn't been the same since despite not noticing anything different about her...yet. He finally tells Clem he is worried how she'd be if something happened to him and that he does everything he can to keep things light hearted and if he wasn't around, she'd lose the will to live. He asks Clem not to tell her anything they talked about. You can then keep his promise, say that she should know how he feels or stay silent. This will affectively have an outcome later on (only in dialogue, nor so much a major choice).

  • After speaking with Omid, Rebecca tells Clem she overheard their conversation and hopes that Omid will be ok.

  • Later on during the group's discussion of the whole plan of getting Luke the radio, instead of the group virtually forcing Clem to be the one to do it, this time there is a choice to actually say no and the group accept it and instead Omid will be the one to go and get it. The reason being (which I don't think was mentioned in the actual game) is because the ladder (or was it a rope? I forget?) that Mike boosts Clem up to will most likely break/snap if anyone else tried to use it and Clem/Omid are the lightest in the group.

  • If Clem goes then the scene will play out like it normally does in the game. If Omid is the one to go then the only difference is that Clem will have the chance to talk to everyone in the pen and possibly find out even more info about the characters, (this by the way is something i really wish Telltale had done, given us more scenarios for us to explore and get more character development from other characters). After a while of walking around the pen talking to the characters (or if Clem just stands there and does nothing), Omid will make it back with the radio.

  • Now here comes the big changes. After Luke is caught and the group is brought in front of Carver, Kenny as normal takes the blame for the missing radio and gets his eye bashed in. However, Carver plans to finish the job and fetches a crowbar. Before he strikes Kenny with it, Omid steps in and attempts to stop him which has severe consequences. Carver turns his attention to Omid and begins bashing his head in as Christa screams in terror, the others look distraught. Carver has sickeningly left Omid unrecognisable.

Just a brief note about this, those of you that know me know that i love Omid! He's in my top 5 fav characters so you probably think it's strange that i've created his death in such a way but the reason for it is simply because if any of you like his character the way i do, i would compare this death to a way of a similar, emotional feeling to the way Glenn died in the comics to Negan. I feel Omid's death would have a huge impact on you as the player witnessing a beloved character die this way and make us have a reason to hate Carver more.

  • After the horrific events that just occurred, everyone is mourning the death of Omid as well as the beating Kenny took. Christa is shaking and not responding when talking to her. Dialogue changed in the scene when talking to/about Christa when Luke is discussing about possibly "leaving some folks behind". Rest of the scene plays out the same, again with extra dialogue such as Kenny seeing if Christa is ok. He tells her how sorry he is about Omid and that he promises he will make the bastard pay. The group go ahead with the plan of Clem going in to turn on the speakers in the office. Alvin's determinant death will play out the same here. An added scene shows the group escaping from the pen but Christa stays sitting silently ignoring everything going on around her as Luke and the group try to get her to leave but fail in doing so. As they leave, a stray walker appears around the corner and heads towards Christa as she still does not react to it. Scene ends before we discover what happened to her.

  • The final scene involving Carver's death does not happen and Troy's death does not occur either. Instead, the scene cuts to straight to outside. Clem asks where Christa is and Luke (or anyone really) tells her how she was and that there was nothing they could do. Thankfully Christa then shows up already covered in guts as she had obviously killed the walker that came towards her. Rebecca finds out about Alvin. The group cover themselves in walker guts. An added scene is shown with Carver and the 400 Days gang on the roof shooting the walkers. Carver reveals that he knows Bonnie helped them all escape and says that justice will be served and vows to bring them all back as soon as the place is under control. Final scene plays out the same. Carlos dies, Sarah runs off and Sarita gets bit and has one less arm determinantly lol. End of episode.

Amid The Ruins

A number of changes ahead.

  • The opening will be pretty much the same as in the original game, Sarita dies and Kenny gets angry at Clem due to his grief although my aim with him is not to make him as much of an asshole as he acted in the original game and also not as violent. Jane, Rebecca and Clem make it out of the herd. Added dialogue is mentioned as Clem can ask if they think they are safe now and that she wonders if Carver may have died or survived the herd at Howes.

  • They meet up with the rest of the group in the usual place and again this scene plays out as normal except this time you have the option to talk to every character and ask them different things including being able to talk to Christa (in fact Bonnie/Mike or whoever insists you speak to her anyway). The group are concerned about Kenny and Christa. When talking to Kenny, he will still be angry and their conversation will be the same as normal. When talking to Christa, after being silent/shakey and completely lost since Omid's death, she finally breaks down in tears and mourns deeply for Omid and confides in Clem about it all. This is the moment Christa can find out the promise you made to Omid about what he told you in the previous episode and whether or not to break his promise or not. Christa will say that she remembers seeing you talking to Omid and asks what he said.

  • If you decide to break Omid's promise and tell her, then later on (whenever it seems appropriate i suppose, not really thought of a particular scene), Christa is talking to Rebecca about how much she is missing Omid and Rebecca will then tell her what she heard Omid say to Clem and she'll say "that's what Clementine said" and be thankful to both of them for making her feel better than she's felt in months.

  • If you keep Omid's promise and don't tell her (lying to her basically), then the same scene will occur with Rebecca telling Christa what Omid said and Christa will call Clem on her lie and be angry with you briefly such as certain dialogue when talking to her will be responded negatively to you (similar to the way Bonnie treats you if you didn't try to save Luke from the ice when she asked). She will later listen to Clem when she tells her that he asked her to promise not to say anything about it. Christa then apologises to her and says she understands and that it sounded as though it was something Omid would ask a good friend to do.

  • Jane and Clem will go to find Luke and Sarah as usual, same scene occurs. However, if you determinantly saved Nick in Episode 2, instead of his pathetic offscreen death in this episode, this time he will be in the trailer with Luke trying to help Sarah. When Jane and Clem get into the trailer with them, like before, they all try to persuade her to leave with them. When the shit hits the fan and the walkers smash through, instead of Clem being the one to make the choice to persuade her, Sarah will be rescued from the trailer regardless because Nick will sacrifice himself to get her to safety. I felt that this would have been a much more honourable and memorable way for him to go instead of that lazy utter shit they pulled in the actual game.

  • If Nick died in Episode 2 then Clem and Jane wkw ill get Sarah out of the trailer in time. There is no choice to leave Sarah as she lives no matter what the outcome.

  • After Clem, Jane and Sarah make it back to the others, we see a scene involving Carver, Troy and the 400 Days gang at the trailer park that Clem was just at. Russell, Wyatt, Vince or Tavia (doesn't matter who) will mention that all of Carver's people at Howes had died including Shel and Becca (sorry to any fans of these characters!), and that they are on the hunt for the escapees. This was added just so we are aware that they are still close by and on their trail.

  • Throughout the episode, more hubs and choice of whether you can talk to all the characters or not. The rest of the episode plays out the same but during the scene with Jane and Clem at the observation deck, instead of seeing Arvo arrive, Clem witnesses Carver, Troy and the remaining 400 Days gang. Clem alerts Jane. Carver is barking orders and tells Wyatt (or Vince/Russell/Tavia or Troy, doesn't matter who), to check the observation deck. Clem and Jane hide and they don't get seen. Carver tells them that it's time to split up and search the other areas such as the museum (that Bonnie and Mike were at). The 400 days group head off in one direction and Carver and Troy head off the other way. By the way, i know the observation deck and the museum are very close by to where Rebecca, Kenny, Christa and the others are so to make it more realistic, the locations are spaced out more so that Carver's gang wouldn't have found them so easily.

  • If Clem chose to go to the museum first, then when she later goes to check on Jane, Carver's crew will already be there searching the place as Clem will hide in the bushes nearby. They eventually go and Jane appears from hiding and reunites with Clem. They go back quickly to tell the others.

  • When Rebecca is in labour, Christa is the one who helps deliver her baby (as she promised to do so a few episodes back that she reminds Rebecca of) instead of Kenny although he does help them both anyway. The original option for Clem to either stay and help Kenny and Rebecca or go out and shoot the walkers off the observation deck has now changed. Instead, Clem can ask Kenny to come and help outside or handle it yourself.

  • After the observation deck collapses, Sarah still falls as normal but she will be rescued by either Jane if Clem tells her to save her or stays silent. If you pull her up, Mike and Luke will go down to save her instead. Rebecca gives birth as normal, everyone is happy when "soon to be named" AJ breathes for the first time especially Christa who begins to cry after remembering the loss of her baby.

  • The scene later that night happens as normal with added Christa and possibly Sarah dialogue. Sarah seems to finally be reacting more positively to the world around her now given that she witnessed the birth of Rebecca's baby.

  • Clem sees Jane leaving as normal except this time she leaves for good (sorry Jane fans! And please know that it's not because of the whole resentment over the Kenny/Jane thing, i just felt it suited the situation more if she was left unknown like Molly or Lilly).

  • The choice of either leaving straight away or waiting a few days will still be included. If you leave straight away, snow will be starting to fall quite heavy like it does in the game. If you wait a few days, the snow has already become heavy. This is something I feel they could have changed instead of just having both choices show the same scene. The group will then be ambushed as usual, however, not by Arvo and the Russians, but by the 400 Days gang. Arvo and the Russians are not included in this version of the game i'd like to have seen. I felt as though as characters they were just thrown in for the sake of the plot and didn't really need to be in it as i decided to use the 400 Days characters. Threatening words are exchanged, Bonnie is called a traitor, guns pointed each other like in the original game. They mention how the gunfire at the observation deck brought them back and they were easy to track down. Vince will tell the group they are coming back to Howes with them whether they like it or not. Due to their obvious resistance, he'll then say that he will count to 5 for everyone to throw down their weapons or else they will open fire. Instead of the episode ending with all guns blazing, when he gets to the count of 4, the episode ends as the last thing we see is a zombified Rebecca.

I decided to change this ending because i could never take it seriously how all the characters could have possibly survived when Buricko originally opens fire. You have no idea how much i hated how unrealistic that was. End of episode 4.

No Going Back

There is quite a lot of changes to this episode but rather than go into detail about it, i'll do my best to shorten it as much as i can!

  • This episode begins where it left off (obviously), it shows Vince counting to 5 again as a recap. When he gets to 4, unknown to him and the other 400 Days crew, Rebecca had turned and grabs him from behind biting him. Clem can choose to warn him if she wishes however it's too late regardless. This causes Vince to pull the trigger instinctively and in the process his stray bullet hits Mike killing him instantly. Russell, Wyatt and Tavia get behind cover, as does Clem and the others. Luke stays and shields a very distraught Sarah. A bunch of walkers show up and everyone begins shooting them as well as also firing at each other. After finishing devouring Vince, Rebecca starts walking towards Luke and Sarah. Sarah, confused asks what's wrong with Rebecca. Luke tells Sarah to close her eyes, he says quietly "Sorry Bec" and then shoots her. Clem will head to rescue AJ that is on the floor near to where Rebecca was when she died, there is no choice like in the game (i mean come on? How could there be a choice of rescuing the baby or get behind cover? I didn't like that choice either I felt this was stupid! The natural instinct would be to try and save the baby at all costs).

  • A scene occurs where Christa and Kenny (or Bonnie and Christa or Kenny and Bonnie, doesn't matter which 2) are shown to be in trouble where Russell and Wyatt both head towards each of them. Clem will have to choose to shoot either Russell or Wyatt. The choice she makes will not have a major effect, only that the characters swap roles as i will shortly explain what happens in a moment. Whoever she shoots will die and the other will witness what just happened and get back behind cover again. After more possible dialogue choices or the option to shoot more walkers, Russell or Wyatt (whoever you didn't shoot obviously) will make a run for it. Kenny will chase after him into the woods. Christa is seen killing some walkers, as is Bonnie and Luke. Clem notices that Tavia is sneaking up behind Christa. Clem has the choice to warn her but either way she will grabbed and held, gun to her head, by Tavia telling everyone to drop their guns or she'll shoot her. As the group do so, Tavia is shot in the head from behind. It is revealed to be Kenny. The group all check on each other to see if everyone is ok as they also thank Kenny and asked him what happened. Depending on your previous choice, he tells the group that he took care of "the kid" if it was Russell or the "guy with the big beard" if it was Wyatt.

  • If Kenny had saved Christa's life back in season 1 depending on the earlier choice Lee made that i mentioned, Christa will say "thanks for saving my life again Kenny". This i felt would have been a really awesome dialogue choice to carry over into this season and wish there were more like this.

  • The next scene cuts to the group burying Mike and Rebecca. After the dialogue, the group suggest heading to the town that they discussed back at the observation deck and this time they DO go there instead of what happened in the original game where they seemed to just completely change the episode and miss out the town altogether.

  • On the way to the town the group, come across the power station like in the original game and camp there for the night. Same scene plays out with extra dialogue and a choice to speak to each character, more hubs etc. Kenny apologises for the way he'd treated Clem, Christa reminisces/tells Clem a story about a time her and Omid sat under the stars and talked all night. Talking to Sarah reveals that she has finally accepted/acknowledged that her dad is gone and won't be back and talks about trying to be strong like Clem and that her friend Lee would be proud. Generally more info on all the characters when talking to them.

  • Next day they reach the deserted town. They find a building with some food in it but not enough to last for the whole group. Kenny and Christa discuss with everyone about finding Wellington. Bonnie and Luke feel they should head back to Howes as they are most familiar with it. An argument occurs and Luke & Bonnie eventually storm out of the building together. After some further dialogue, Clem goes outside to talk to Luke and Bonnie but discovers they have vanished. Just then we see a split second shot of Troy who knocks Clem out.

  • When she comes around from the blackout, we see Bonnie, Luke and Clem lined up in a row with Troy and Carver holding them at gun point whilst Kenny, Christa look on. Sarah is inside the house with AJ. The storm now by the way is extremely fierce. Carver tells them all to drop their weapons and has a long dialogue and mentions that there would be consequences. He turns to Bonnie, telling her that she knew what happens to traitors. He shoots her point blank dead. He will ask where Rebecca is. Clem can tell him what happened to her, lie and says she doesn't know or stay silent. Regardless of choice, Carver won't believe her or gets more threatening if you stayed silent. Carver plays the counting game again and reminds Kenny of what happened the last time they failed to make his "3 count". He begins counting, before he gets to 3, we hear AJ crying. Carver reacts to this and tells Christa to bring AJ outside. Christa does so with Sarah carrying him. Carver then realises that Rebecca must be dead. He angrily tells the group that he's done with them and only requires his child and orders Troy to shoot them all. Before he can react, Luke manages to knock the gun out of the way, a stray bullet hits Carver in the shoulder, Luke punches Troy to the ground and he, Clem and the others all run off in different directions to escape Carver. Walkers suddenly show up. Troy begins shooting frantically at them when all of a sudden he is shot in the dick by Carver (yep the same as when Jane "shot his dick off" lol). Carver is furious at the fact they all got away and solely blames Troy for it. Walkers then devour him. Carver shoots 3 or 4 walkers and runs out of ammo tossing his gun away and runs in the other direction holding his shoulder.

  • Clem is slowly moving through the storm, she only has her screwdriver weapon now after being stripped of her gun earlier. She kills a few walkers and will eventually bump into Kenny. They continue through the storm, killing more walkers along the way. They will spot a large church and take shelter in there. Unfortunately, Carver is already inside. After another set of dialogue and responses (left up to imagination, sorry!), Clem will anger Carver with whatever dialogue choice is chosen, even if she stays silent. He will draw a knife and attempt to strike her as Kenny intervenes and they physically fight. Clem will basically stay out of the fight to an extent but she can help Kenny by sliding him a piece of metal or something offensive to use against Carver during the fight. During a struggle, Carver loses his knife down a hole in the wooden floor of the church and Kenny will be thrown through a window to the outside shortly afterwards. Carver proceeds by beating Kenny further yelling how he's going to take the other eye and more. Clem will try to stop him but get hit hard in the face which virtually knocks her out again but badly dazes her. Carver tells her to wait her turn. He then finally begins to strangle a helpless Kenny who visibly begins turning blue/purple. Clem is helpless to do anything when out of nowhere Carver is stabbed in the back of the stomach by...Christa. As he lays there dying, Kenny will pick up a large rock and drop it on his head (and yes this is a nod to the Larry incident and i am sorry but my intention is not to offend anyone over this, merely just because I felt Carver deserved a death like this where as Larry didn't so this is making up for it lol).

  • Luke and Sarah with AJ (who obviously found each other) turn up and reunite with the others. The group go back into the church and after a lengthy set of dialogue, Luke tells Clem, Kenny and Christa that he and Sarah are going to go their separate ways with AJ and head back to Howes because of the baby formula they had there as well as the food that was left. He says they are welcome to come but have decided not to look for Wellington with them. Kenny and Christa after the stories they heard and belief of Wellington still decide they want to go and find it regardless but agree that Luke going back to Howes is probably what's best for Sarah and AJ. This leaves Clem into making a decision to either go with Luke, Sarah and AJ or go with Christa and Kenny or a possible third choice (though i am not sure why she would but) to not go with anyone but for her to go it alone. Perhaps her reasons for the alone choice is to avoid the hurt of seeing more people die similar to how Jane acts within the group? Whatever choice is chosen will show a final scene of Clem walking off into the distance with either Kenny and Christa or Luke, Sarah and AJ or her walking off alone. End of season.

And that's the end of my season 1 & 2 ideas! Hopefully the inclusion of Omid and Christa in season 2 also takes away some of the spotlight from Kenny as so many people here point out lol and that was the general idea and of course i hope you like my ideas.

Thanks for reading this guys! It's actually taken me weeks and weeks to put down from the note form I originally had for it. I appreciate the time any of you have taken in doing so and yes it's definitely the longest post i have posted here. As I said, please feel free to share your own ideas as well as your opinions about mine below but please be respectful of everyone's comments. Would love to get a decent thread going on this either way.

Dan

Ps. Question to all. Is "determinANtly" actually a word? I've always wondered? For example "so and so determinantly did this or that?"

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Comments

  • Oh my gosh, I can tell you have worked so hard in coming up with this! This is so impressive!! I could actually imagine the game being like this in another universe. I love that you made sure that all the characters at least had a chance of development (Omid, Christa, Nick, Sarah) and that Carver and the 400 Days group were a more important part of the plot. I really admire this and I wish that somehow Telltale could just hire you as a writer and you could rewrite Season 2, haha. (Sorry Telltale)

    I loved reading this, thank you! :)

  • You weren't lying when you said this was a long post! This was really well-thought out. I thought that some of your ideas were interesting and I agree that some deaths should have been handled better. I definitely would have appreciated more opportunities to actually talk to some of the Season 2 cast members. also. As for determinately, I think it's a real word? I know I use it sometimes.

  • This is incredible, and I would totally get the Kenny/Christa ending, to every fucking price. It's awesome that you took the time to write this!

  • dan290786dan290786 Banned
    edited July 2016

    Thank you very much for taking the time to read it. By all means share your ideas too and compare! Would really love to make this a long lasting thread!

    Shroomii posted: »

    Oh my gosh, I can tell you have worked so hard in coming up with this! This is so impressive!! I could actually imagine the game b

  • Thanks very much for reading Kenny726

    Kenny726 posted: »

    You weren't lying when you said this was a long post! This was really well-thought out. I thought that some of your ideas were int

  • Thanks very much for reading captainivy1

    captainivy1 posted: »

    This is incredible, and I would totally get the Kenny/Christa ending, to every fucking price. It's awesome that you took the time to write this!

  • It's currently 00:10 in my country, and I can't believe I just read through all of that. That was incredible. Honestly, S2 would have been much much better if that was the story line, that honestly blew my mind.

    I can't believe this only had 3 likes when I first read it, this deserves way more.

    This will be a good way in making determinants matter more, great job you're a better write than the TT staff!

    Hopefully the writers in S3 pick up on this intuitiveness and creativity. (Btw who is writing s3?)

    Ps determinantly isn't a word according to my iPhone, but I think it's fine to use anyways :p

  • Thanks Daze (can i call you that for short? Lol), help me try and spread the word about this thread! I know it's ridiculously long and not everyone will read it but i really want to get peoples input on this. Thanks again!

    It's currently 00:10 in my country, and I can't believe I just read through all of that. That was incredible. Honestly, S2 would h

  • Great read bro +1

  • Thanks Clem4S3

    Clem4S3 posted: »

    Great read bro +1

  • Most people call me Azy, which is short for my real name Azaniah, which is where the azehnuu part of my name originated from. But yeah you can call me daze, never thought of that before seems like a cool name.

    dan290786 posted: »

    Thanks Daze (can i call you that for short? Lol), help me try and spread the word about this thread! I know it's ridiculously long and not everyone will read it but i really want to get peoples input on this. Thanks again!

  • If everyone calls you by the same name but one person calls you something else (like Daze for example) you tend to remember that person more than all the same people calling you Azy haha

    Most people call me Azy, which is short for my real name Azaniah, which is where the azehnuu part of my name originated from. But yeah you can call me daze, never thought of that before seems like a cool name.

  • I have to say, this was the biggest thread I have read in here so far, and was one of the most worthy ones. You think about the game and its every character so carefully, I mean, of course there is still a lot for you to take into consideration seeing the unique aspect that the game must present when in comparison with either the TV Show or the Comics, but still very impressive. I see too much influence from other midias at some points, even some repetitions, also, though I love a good character development, there are many cases in this game where a premature and abrupt death is the best possible character development there is, being even the logical one for some characters. While I am not saying that TTG has performed it perfectly, they have nicely accomplished necessary points in order for the story to move forward in an interesting direction that keep us hanging while immersed in good interaction with the story, its characters and elements. Overral, I love how you close some story arcs and I am really hoping that Season Three catches up with thoughts like yours about the determinant characters.

    "Determinantly" is strictly not a word, but what is important is to make your thoughts clear to everyone.

  • edited July 2016

    Well I'll most likely never forget you... Dan... ok, that seem simple enough ... 290786

    Shit how am I meant to remember all those numbers? XD

    I'll just call you Dan

    dan290786 posted: »

    If everyone calls you by the same name but one person calls you something else (like Daze for example) you tend to remember that person more than all the same people calling you Azy haha

  • Thanks very much for your reply and your time in reading my post. Appreciate it!

    Chusets posted: »

    I have to say, this was the biggest thread I have read in here so far, and was one of the most worthy ones. You think about the ga

  • Did you ever considered being a writer at Telltale?

  • Haha if they offered me a job i'd snap their hand off lol. Thanks for the compliment anyway :)

    Mortal5075 posted: »

    Did you ever considered being a writer at Telltale?

  • edited July 2016

    Scratch previous comment. 1 am here. Saw C as a G. I'm off to bed.

    dan290786 posted: »

    Thank you very much for taking the time to read it. By all means share your ideas too and compare! Would really love to make this a long lasting thread!

  • I one hundred percent agree with all that you've said.

    TellTale needs to understand that not every fucking character has to die by the season finale and that some can actually live to see the next season...

  • Do not mention it.

    dan290786 posted: »

    Thanks very much for your reply and your time in reading my post. Appreciate it!

  • telltale pls hire this person pls

  • ??

    Anthorn posted: »

    Scratch previous comment. 1 am here. Saw C as a G. I'm off to bed.

  • Numbers are my date of birth haha but yeah Dan would be the obvious haha

    Well I'll most likely never forget you... Dan... ok, that seem simple enough ... 290786 Shit how am I meant to remember all those numbers? XD I'll just call you Dan

  • You were born in the year 290786???? Are you from the future or something?

    Oh wait, how stupid of me! I get it now. Don't be surprised. I'm only a Kenny fan after all!

    dan290786 posted: »

    Numbers are my date of birth haha but yeah Dan would be the obvious haha

  • Thanks for the kind words lol

    TWD_stan posted: »

    telltale pls hire this person pls

  • Answering your original question though.

    If I could change how deceased characters are handled, I would make it so that the deceased has a lasting impact and isn't forgotten within a few seconds. Have alive characters be more emotionally affected by the death of this character.

    Determinants just need to matter more. Simple as that. Honestly no point in advertising the game like "your choices determine the fates of those around you'" and "every choice can be your last" if they have no impact. It shouldn't be that hard to keep deterninants alive. Honestly, Doug could have survived into Season 3 as easily as Kenny. May not seem convenient for the plot, but it can still happen!

    Unknown characters... That's tricky.

    Sometimes I guess it'd be good for them to return. Just afraid it'll be like reuniting with Kenny again.

    However, sometimes it's best TT don't explicitly tell us "bla bla bla is dead", so Unknown characters should stay that way. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Christa is dead :(

  • DeltinoDeltino Moderator

    I figure I'd drop a few of my own ideas into the pool as well:

    Ben and the hatchet: Instead of completely forgoing the scene like you sugest, it's changed so that Ben still indirectly contributes to the walkers entering the school, but in a way that is much less braindead, and with more understandable intentions. There are three important factors to the hatchet scene; firstly, it acts as a way to get walkers into the school. Secondly, it gives people another reason to side against Ben. And thirdly, it acts as the final straw that finally makes Ben tell Kenny about his role in the deaths of Katjaa and Duck.

    My suggestion would be as such: the scene of Lee and Molly returning is the same, except instead of Ben coming around the corner, he suddenly comes barging through the door to the stairwell, surprising Lee and Molly. He goes on to tell them that Kenny sent him out to look for something to get the door open. Ben, seeing that the walkers cleared out of the stairs, decided to go downstairs to look for something. However, as he was rooting around downstairs, he accidentally ended up getting the walkers' attention, and inadvertently leads them back up to the second floor. From there, the scene plays out as normal. Ben still plays a role in causing the walkers to enter the building, but in a much less idiotic way. It also forgoes some of the other questionable things about that scene (Why did the zombies randomly stop pounding on the door and disappear? Why did they suddenly come back the moment Ben told them about the hatchet, even in spite of a bell ringing in the distance?).

    Nick's role in episodes 3 and 4: Nick, if saved in episode 2, will get paired up with Mike and Kenny, and thus show up in all the scenes between the two. He's there when the walkers breach the store, he's there when they're arguing over who should take the radio, and he'll just overall speak up more often. When they're all trying to figure out a plan to leave, Nick would be one of the people in opposition to it, but ends up reluctantly going along with it. In episode 4, he'd stick with Luke, and get shot like he does currently. However, instead of finding him as a walker, he actually manages to make it back to the meeting spot. He's alive but obviously hurt, and he tells the rest of them that he got cut off from Luke and Sarah, but saw them heading towards an old trailer park. Jane and Clementine go out to check the trailer park and try to find them, while Nick stays behind at the meeting spot. Everything plays out the same, albeit with Clementine and Jane telling Luke that Nick made it back to them safely and told them where him and Sarah were. The choice to save Sarah is still a thing, although she'd keep the same basic role you've suggested going forward.

    When you return back to the meeting spot, Nick would still be there, and you'd get the option to talk to him and all that. We'd get to see more of his relationship with Luke and Rebecca (and Sarah, if alive), and he'd offer to help out when they split off to find a place to stay/stuff for the baby, but the group convinces him to stay back due to his injury.

    Also, going along with this, if Nick died in episode 2, I'd have the characters react to it much more heavily, obviously. For example, when you meet up with Luke inside the compound, he'd say that he's seen some of you walking around, and asks if everyone made it out, and you'd have the option of telling him that Nick (and possibly Alvin) got killed back at the lodge. He'd be saddened by the news, but sucks it up and tells Clementine about his plan. You'd get to see him mourn Nick (and Alvin) later in the episode, after he gets captured and is back with the group again. That would obviously carry into episodes 4 and 5 as well, same with the other cabin survivors.

    The camp fire scene from episode 5: Another thing I'd change up is actually shifting the camp fire scene from episode 5 over to episode 4 instead. It'd happen after the observation deck attack. Sarah doesn't die there, so provided you saved her, she'll also be present. After the birth of Rebecca's baby, everyone just get to enjoy a small conversation between each other. It'd play out largely the same way that the scene in episode 5 does, but with more characters, obviously. They'd joke about Luke and Jane, although Kenny (and Jane, who hasn't actually left yet) would be a bit sore about the subject. After getting to talk to everyone, they all decide to get some sleep for the night. From there, Clementine notices Jane about to take off and leave, and the scene plays out as normal from there. Afterwards, the scene with Luke walking over and learning about what happened to Jane would still occur, which leads into the small argument with Kenny, which leads into them all discussing where they should go next.

    As for the camp fire scene in episode 5, it'd still be there, although much more bittersweet this time around. The characters would be much more somber after the end of episode 4/opening of episode 5. Luke would open up more about his guilt over what happened to the cabin group, how it's weighing down on him overall, and so forth.

    Nick's death: Instead of dying trying to save Sarah, he'd be one of the casualties during the gunfight. But instead of just dying instantly in the crossfire, he'd still get a relatively heroic death. During the gun fight in episode 5, Luke gets pinned down by one of their attackers, who starts advancing on Luke to finish him off. Nick pops up and shoot the attacker, saving Luke, but is fatally shot in the process. Luke sees Nick get shot and loses it, shooting and killing the attacker, making it his first human kill of the game. He'd then run over to the dying Nick, and spend the last few minutes trying to comfort him as he bleeds out from his wounds. Nick's death would leave Luke pretty distraught, and he'd blame himself for Nick's death, even though it wasn't really his fault, which will play into the following conversations you have with him. It'd be less of Luke blaming himself for Nick dying the way he did, as much as blaming himself for not being able to keep his friend alive. Basically, survivor's guilt of being the only surviving cabin group member, outside of Sarah if she was saved.

    The alone ending in your version of the ending: Instead of directly having the option to go off on her own, you'd choose to go with Kenny/Christa, or Luke/possibly Sarah. However, you'd get one additional choice after the fact. As they all start walking on their way, Clementine lags behind them, and you'd get a final choice; keep following whoever you chose to go with, or slip away into the surrounding trees, deciding to go off on your own. I doubt any of them would just let Clementine go on her own like that, so having her slip away when they're not looking seems like it'd work out better.

    I should note that most of the ideas I'm listing are for the Telltale S2 story line. Generally, when I end up thinking about how I would change scenes, I try to keep them as close to the original story as I can. I prefer to change aspects of the scenes over completely rewriting them, save for a few things here or there (like Sarah's second death, because it's just not very good to begin with). For example, the above suggestion with Ben. It accomplishes the same things the current scene does, but in a way that stays a bit more true to Ben's character up to that point. Nick's death still obviously ends with him dying, but in a way that is memorable, and has a tangible impact on the surviving characters.

  • edited July 2016

    Those are some really good ideas, Dan. I specially liked the storyline you gave to Omid and Christa.

    If you want my input tho, here's what I would change.

    • I think that you gave Lilly and Mark a kinda underwhelming conclusion. I would have both her and Mark make it to the RV and the usual 'Lilly blaming everyone' scene would play out as normal, but when Lilly's about to shoot Carley/Doug (Lilly would also think that he stole supplies) Mark would try to save them and get shot instead. The letting her in or leaving her choice would play out as usual. I think that murdering someone without any actual evidence was something crucial to demonstrate Lilly's state of paranoia after her father's death. If she's left at the Motor In this would never be explored.
    • Although many may disagree, I liked Kenny vs Jane in No Going Back. It's been 2 years and we're still talking about it! This is how I'd keep that conflict while also trying to remove No Going Back's original episode many flaws. I would have the initial conflict to play out as you mentioned with some differences. Mike wouldn't die (instead shot in the arm as usual). Luke and Clem are under cover, but the baby is still on the ground. Luke tries to save the baby (instead of randomly getting out of cover) and is shot in the belly by Carver (who is there with his group). Becca (that would still be alive and so would Shel) is shot in the chest offscreen and Shel is seen trying to save her with CPR. Shel is then taken as hostage by Kenny who is being held at gunpoint by Troy (that would be with the Howe's group). While Shel is busy trying to escape Kenny, Becca turns and is shot by Clem in self defense. Shel witnesses it. Jane saves the group by killing Troy, as usual. The scene plays out like you mentioned. The only man left is Carver, who is wounded and unable to walk. Kenny grabs a tree branch. "Go on without me. You don't need to see this". Christa replaces Rebecca in this scene and encourages kenny to do it. Clem can stay and watch, go with the others, or, if she has a good enough relationship with Kenny, she can convince him not to kill him. If the latter is chosen, Christa simply shoots Carver in the face. The episode continues as usual (with Shel being the new Arvo) with the exeption of Luke feeling really bad, almost unable to move and having to be carried. They find the power station and have the usual scene by the fire, Luke's bd, kissing stuff, etc. At the end of th scene (after Shell starts screaming) Luke is too far gone. He had lost to much blood, and one of his internal organs is pierced. He acknoledges his death. The group has the opportunity to say their goodbyes. Luke asks to be put down, Clem can volunteer but Kenny does not allow it. Mike does it instead. The episode plays out normaly without that stupid Lake scene, ffs. There is no food at the house where Shel and her group had stayed the previous night/the previous three nights as she promissed. Kenny gets pissed, beats Shel and the scene plays as usual, scaring the hell out of Mike, Bonnie and Jane. Christa is ok with it, since Shel was with Carver who killed her husband. The episode continues with Mike's betrayal. Clem has the choice to shoot him. If she does, Sarah is seen trying to aid Clem while panicking. Shel and Bonnie escape. If she doesn't shoot Mike, Mike grabs Sarah and they both escape with Shel and Bonnie. Clem's shot, dream sequence, Kenny and Jane argue, Christa sides with the Wellington plan, Sarah is scared shitless (if she's there). Kenny goes out looking for fuel. Walkers attack. Jane, Christa, Sarah and Clem get out of the truck. Jane takes AJ as usual. Christa disappears. Clem and Sarah (if she's there) stick together, Kenny vs Jane happens. If Sarah is there she will be seen panicking and therefore, freezing (not literally...) unable to do anything.

    • If you get the 'alone' ending with Sarah, you, Sarah and AJ decide to leave the rest stop. If you taught Sarah how to use a gun she will kill walker Kenny/Jane with Clem's gun. You can be pissed at her, congratulate what she did, or simply don't give a shit. You two are faced with the decision of going back to Howes or look out for Wellington. Sarah will sugest that she prefers going to Howes, but the choice is up to you.

      • If you chose to go to Howes with Sarah, you two will enter the building, check the greenhouse, the food, the baby formula, etc. The family shows up. You can tell them to leave or let them in. (I belive that having only Sarah and Clem in Howes would make players more reluctant to let the family in).
      • If you chose to go to Wellington, you two (somehow) find it. Edith lets you in because she acknowledges that two teenagers aren't able to take care of a baby on their own. Clem asks about a woman named Christa. Edith will mention that she was there a couple hours ago but she had to turn her away. You have the choice to look out for her leaving Sarah and AJ in Wellington or enter Wellington with them.
    • If you are with Jane, the three of you go to Howes. Sarah is seen killing a walker before entering the building. The usual reaction choice happens. Everything plays out as usual.

    • If you are with Kenny, the three of you find Wellington. Sarah is seen killing a walker before racing to the top of the hill. Normal reaction choice happens. Kenny ask about Christa and Edith tells him that she was there a couple of hours ago. Edith explains why they had to send her away. Edith makes an exception for Clem, Sarah and AJ and Kenny insists that the tree of them take the opportunity. If you choose to accept Edith's offer, Kenny says that he'll look for Christa and wait until Wellington has enough space to shelter them. If you chose to go with Kenny, both of you leave Sarah and AJ in Wellington and go look for Christa.

    • If Clem is alone she and AJ stay in the rest stop. Clem is desperate because she knows that without baby formula AJ will likely die. In the next morning Clem puts undead Jane/Kenny down. She starts walking and sees a figure in the distance. Just like in Season 1, it's Christa.

    This is what I personally would change from your plot that, btw, is awesome. You definitely put a lot of effort into it, Dan. Congrats, and lets hope TT gives you a job!

    (Sorry if I completely destroyed English with this post x.x I'm not a native speaker, I'm writting on my phone and it's 3am therefore the existence of the many errors I probably commited!)

    (I tried to correct most of it. I can't believe I wrote 'tree' instead of 'three' xD)

  • I appreciate the tag, Dan! I can clearly see that you've put lots of effort and time into this post. Let's set a goal of twenty deserved likes from here to Wednesday!

    Keeping in mind that Kenny is one of your favorite characters, I also like that you tagged some that dislike him, including @Everyone'sClemInTime, @Flog61, @KCohere, @IronWoodLover, @sialark, and myself. This shows that you are willing to put everyone's opinion on Kenny aside in order to discuss what we would've changed. I respect that!

    dan290786 posted: »

    @BetterToSleep @RichWalk23 @prink34320 @Everyone'sClemInTime @Flog61 @KCohere @IronWoodLover @sialark @marccost3

  • That was one long read!

    I adore how you made sure that the characters obtained a higher degree of background. I'm not sure how to structure my comment, so I suppose I'll just make a general list of changes that I say "YAAAAAAS" to, changes that I say "not bad" to, and changes that I'm "not too sure" about.


    "YAAAAAAS"

    • Higher degree of background to main and secondary characters.

    • More character and participation from Carley.

    • More character and participation from Doug.

    • More character and participation from Mark.

    • More character and participation from David and Travis.

    • More character and participation from Luke, Nick and Sarah.

    • More participation from a determinant Nick.

    • Higher degree of overall determinance.

    • More hub areas!

    • The fact that you took into consideration that Omid probably wouldn't have killed Michelle, along with your explanation of Christa's fetus's death.


    "Not Bad"

    • More character and participation from Omid and Christa.

    • The cast of Season 2 having more relationships among one another.

    • Your handling of Vince's death.

    • Mike's death at the hands of Vince.

    • Bonnie's death at the hands of Carver.

    • Rebecca's death and how it affects Luke and Sarah.


    "Not Too Sure"

    • The dynamic between Kenny and Christa. It seems unlikely to me that they would get along, considering that during the 48 hours that they spent together in Savannah they argued at least three times.

    • Little to no importance to the background residents of the Howe's Hardware community—Lowell, Tyler, Hank, Vera, Tisha and Stan—as compared to the crew that was brought to Howe's by Tavia, who have overbearing importance in your version.

    • Lilly departing earlier from the story, especially considering that Kenny comes back nonetheless.

    • Jane departing from the story for good, especially considering that Kenny remains in the group.

    • Carver being pictured a psychopathic with no regard to his own people, as compared to his canon version, who shows himself to respect the residents of his community, generally speaking.

    • Shel and Becca dying during the escape of he community. Vince, Wyatt and Russell are pretty dull as it is, so I would exchange any two of them for Shel and Becca in order to have a richer narrative.

  • I was about to do some friendly corrections when I stumbled upon the parentheses at the bottom.

    I am laughing my lungs out and breaking my ribs. Thanks!

    Those are some really good ideas, Dan. I specially liked the storyline you gave to Omid and Christa. If you want my input tho,

  • has a tangible impact on the surviving characters.

    Luke doesn't get his head pierced, for example.

    Deltino posted: »

    I figure I'd drop a few of my own ideas into the pool as well: Ben and the hatchet: Instead of completely forgoing the scene li

  • followed this thread coz i'm gonna read this later..

  • Thanks for tagging me! I love these kinds of threads xD

    dan290786 posted: »

    @BetterToSleep @RichWalk23 @prink34320 @Everyone'sClemInTime @Flog61 @KCohere @IronWoodLover @sialark @marccost3

  • edited July 2016

    Okay, but seriously can someone hire this person? He wrote a better second season then the shit we got. I'm not saying that I dont appreciate what we got but I am saying that I would take THIS seven days a week and twice on Sunday.

  • edited July 2016

    The only real problems I have are the off screen deaths of Carley/Doug and your ending for Season 2 which feels kinda flaccid. Other than that, great job!

  • Tldr bro, just FYI, and that's rare for me.

    Of course we all would like determinants to not die early and to play large roles in the story, but the only example of that in any major game I can think of is Urdnot Wrex, and he spends almost the entire game post choice death scene being silent and spends almost the entire next two games off screen.

    That's the result of production costs bro... No way to get around it.

  • Thanks AlphaLeague. Very kind of you

    AlphaLeague posted: »

    Okay, but seriously can someone hire this person? He wrote a better second season then the shit we got. I'm not saying that I dont appreciate what we got but I am saying that I would take THIS seven days a week and twice on Sunday.

  • Thanks BetterToSleep!

    Well considering most of those i tagged are people i talk to the most on these forums i hoped to hear your views as well naturally. I tried to write things so the spotlight wasn't all on Kenny so hopefully that was how it seemed given Omid and Christa'a involvement in season 2. Thank you also for your points on the "not too sure"'section, I appreciated that:

    The dynamic between Kenny and Christa. It seems unlikely to me that they would get along, considering that during the 48 hours that they spent together in Savannah they argued at least three times.

    That is true. I guess i figured that they possibly got a long a bit better now especially if the scene of him saving her life took place, she would naturally feel more towards him for that. I actually would have still had arguments between them because let's face it, when or who DOESN'T Kenny not argue with?? Lol. Maybe i should go back and write a whole script for my version of the games? Haha

    Little to no importance to the background residents of the Howe's Hardware community—Lowell, Tyler, Hank, Vera, Tisha and Stan—as compared to the crew that was brought to Howe's by Tavia, who have overbearing importance in your version.

    Yes the reason for less to no mention of the Howes residents is because i wanted all the focus on the 400 Days characters instead. But again i was thinking of where i could fit their roles into my version but couldn't really make my mind up.

    Lilly departing earlier from the story, especially considering that Kenny comes back nonetheless.

    This was more of a decision to respect Telltales original idea of writing Lilly out of the game, i just felt the exit could have been done differently without making a lot of people hate her for what she does to Carley/Doug. It actually wasn't decided "im bringing Kenny back and not Lilly", it just felt more appropriate at this time.

    Jane departing from the story for good, especially considering that Kenny remains in the group.

    Again i believe i did mention that my idea to write Jane out of the story was not out of dislike for her character or because i wanted Kenny around instead, it's more so that i felt by her leaving suited the current situation and the fact that i wanted to change the Jane/Kenny fight and that whole ending scene. I guess i found it difficult to include her given the fact that i planned Sarah and Luke to live and obviously Christa was in the picture. Again it was no personal attack on Jane's character, just something i could see working within my story. After all, i could have had her die a gruesome death but i'm not that shitty lol, plus i think some people get the wrong idea about how i feel about Jane. I mean i dislike her but I don't hate her. I don't hate any character really. I'm not a hateful person.

    Carver being pictured a psychopathic with no regard to his own people, as compared to his canon version, who shows himself to respect the residents of his community, generally speaking.

    I tried to make it the opposite actually in the sense his goal was going after them and once again bringing them all back to Howes. Only that when Rebecca died and he saw the baby that he believed was his child, i wanted him to feel that he only gave a shit about AJ and nothing else. Given that Bonnie in my story betrays him, he wanted revenge. Do you not think Carver was a psychopath then? At least semi psycho? Lol.

    Shel and Becca dying during the escape of he community. Vince, Wyatt and Russell are pretty dull as it is, so I would exchange any two of them for Shel and Becca in order to have a richer narrative.

    That is fair enough. I apologised to any fans of Shel/Becca for the choice. I guess for me a reasoning behind it was that i found them less interesting than the others but i guess it's a matter of opinion. Also i think Shel would have died trying to save Becca given a dangerous situation, i dunno i just couldn't make my mind up if they would die or not. The point i wanted to get across though was that all of these 400 days characters had a role to play even mentioned in dialogue felt like they were more important than the shit we got in the actual game.

    Anyway thanks for your input, i appreciate the feedback

    That was one long read! I adore how you made sure that the characters obtained a higher degree of background. I'm not sure how

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