The chance to Redeem a villain

After playing the game we see the introduction of Ozwald Cobblepot and Harvey Dent. Episode 2 "Children of Arkham" hints for a possible Harleen Quinzel appearance. All these characters in their pre-villain personas, which an Ace Chemical reporting hinting at a possible Joker appearance.

Besides the Joker since there's no chance for him, we know what these characters will end up into. We read the comic books enough to know that Ozwald will become Penguin. We know that Harvey Dent will become Two-Face. We know that Harleen Quinzel will become Harley Quinn. We already know what their future's will be and it will end up the same way, but what if there's a chance to redeem these people before they become villains. What if there's a chance for us as a player to help them become good people before any bad things could happen?

This is pretty much a new universe TellTale has created for Batman, and the origins of these characters don't have to end the same way other versions have. I would very much like TellTale to give us the option to actually redeem these villains, but by doing so could also chance the dynamic of the people around Bruce. By redeeming a villain we also end up turning someone close to Bruce turn into a villain. It will have an interesting dynamic, but honestly this is the option I really want because I really do want to have a chance to help them rather then fight them all the time

Should TellTale give us the option of redeeming a villain before them becoming villains? How would you like to handle it if you have the chance?

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Comments

  • I always love the idea of a villain redemption.
    Think there's one with the Penguin in TAS

    Also love Smallville for that, always feels there's a chance for Clerk & Lex to be friends.

    :)

  • I'm sure that would put way to much strain on the company, but I like the idea.
    Though from my perspective Harleen wouldn't be able to be saved, because of her infatuation with Joker, but a world without Two-face or Penguin would certainly be interesting.
    I especially liked your idea about other people turning into villains. Almost like Gotham needs a certain amount of villains and if Bruce tries to stop that from happening a butterfly effect will make sure a new villain rises to take the fallens place.

  • A full on redemption, no. But Oz isn't really a bad guy. The reveloution he talks about is because of how really bad Gotham is right now because of people like Carmine Falcone.

  • Oswald's redemption maybe? There are two pinguins in comics: when he's a scum playing only by his own interest and when he's more of a greyish character, a snitch for batman with his bar the Icerberg lounge and as long he provides information, Batman let him do his little business.

    I think their relations will go downhill with Bruce (there's the ideology of revolution and what you end with doing, who won't be pretty, and he admitted it) but maybe they will be letting the player to choose to have one of the version his character is known for (scum/"ally" of Batman)

    Out of subject but I wonder why they called him Oz. Does it have a meaning or is it only a random change, to make a distinction with previous penguins?

  • The whole Oz thing is because in this version Bruce and Oz were childhood friends. Makes sense for him to have a nickname.

    Euron posted: »

    Oswald's redemption maybe? There are two pinguins in comics: when he's a scum playing only by his own interest and when he's more

  • edited August 2016

    I wonder if this version of the Penguin will also absorb the crime families.

    But more likely he's already a crime boss or something similar. Those guys we see attacking places are probably all his henchmen.

  • edited August 2016

    If/when Harvey becomes Two-Face, I'm hoping our interactions with him throughout the episodes will pay off. One way or another, he'll probably turn into a villain. He's always been a tragic character in that light. But what we might be able to tailor is our personal relationship with Harvey. None of this "Alfred scolds Bruce for beating somebody up no matter what you do" B.S.; Telltale has to make our moments with Harvey COUNT by the end.

    For example, treating Harvey right throughout the episodes could result in longer dialogue exchanges with Two-Face that wouldn't be available if you simply shut him out at every opportunity prior to his transformation. Maybe the "ultimate decision" in this season will come when we choose whether to tell Harvey our secret identity or not. This might not result in Two-Face's redemption, but it would change the content of the final scene with Two-Face in radical ways. Telltale should look to this little exchange between Bruce and Harvey in an episode from the classic animated series for inspiration:

  • So far Telltale has hinted how villians may not become villians. Maybe a type of, well Harvey became Two Face but you stopped Oz from being the penguin and vice versa.

    I already feel like two major choices that will happen in later episodes is somehow stopping someone becoming a bad guy, and the other revealing your identity to Gordon or Viki.

  • Well the Penguin episode in TAS was a criticism of society being unable to accept redemption from criminals. The Penguin actually decides that redemption is worthless by the end.

    If there is redemption I think it will have its issues with other characters.

    Vold posted: »

    I always love the idea of a villain redemption. Think there's one with the Penguin in TAS Also love Smallville for that, always feels there's a chance for Clerk & Lex to be friends.

  • Only because iirc, people didn't gave him a chance and pisses him of...

    Mumbling here:

    Its like in DS9 of Star Trek.
    Get two guys

    Both just as bad, everyone don't trust either, both sorta wants to have a fresh starts but only one succeeds because...

    He had someone who genuinely & unconditionally forgave him for whatever it is he's done in the past, even though it was not done on him and also have the support of others in the crew.

    While the other guy have constant distrust and no forgiveness be it unconditional or otherwise.

    Also he had people on his side against the idea of being redeemed in the eyes of their enemies.

    Lord_EAA posted: »

    Well the Penguin episode in TAS was a criticism of society being unable to accept redemption from criminals. The Penguin actually

  • Well Catwoman will probably get redemption. I'm not sure about the others.

    Vold posted: »

    Only because iirc, people didn't gave him a chance and pisses him of... Mumbling here: Its like in DS9 of Star Trek. Get tw

  • I do wonder whether there will be a choice somewhere which allows you to prevent Harvey or Oswald from becoming villains, but only one of them. Harley too if she does appear.

  • unless tt wanted to fuck w/our feelings damn hard..make us care about these characters then BOOM they turn to villains and hate our guts :(

    Poogers555 posted: »

    So far Telltale has hinted how villians may not become villians. Maybe a type of, well Harvey became Two Face but you stopped Oz f

  • i would save Harvey, he's so nice..Oz is cool asf but i can't see tt Harvey become a scary evil bastard.. i mean he already gives me the creeps thinking about it so if i let Oz become this villain (i think he will anyway) i think we'll still have some kind of closeness although i can't see Oz being wrong right now he has a valid point where he's coming from.

    Poogers555 posted: »

    So far Telltale has hinted how villians may not become villians. Maybe a type of, well Harvey became Two Face but you stopped Oz f

  • I would prefer them more as villains honestly, it would make the experience more fun.

  • explain because if that's the case i just wasted $4 and i could've bought a used batman comic book

    I would prefer them more as villains honestly, it would make the experience more fun.

  • just my opinion lol I just find them to be more enjoyable as villains than normal people.

    explain because if that's the case i just wasted $4 and i could've bought a used batman comic book

  • edited August 2016

    "Redeem"? Aren't redemption and atonement theological concepts, or at least dependent on the existence of an absolute and objective morality?
    My Batman is not the Messiah, or even a priest, so he won't be redeeming anyone.

  • well "your batman" is not a good friend >:(

    Agelastos posted: »

    "Redeem"? Aren't redemption and atonement theological concepts, or at least dependent on the existence of an absolute and objective morality? My Batman is not the Messiah, or even a priest, so he won't be redeeming anyone.

  • That's pretty much what I wanted/expected when Telltale wanted to do their spin on Batman. We can have a little more control on Bruce's personality and how others think of us, so why not be a bit more persuasive with words instead of fists to lure them away from being a villian. I have my doubts that the inevitable will happen and they'll turn into criminals no matter what Bruce does, but in my playthrough I will certainly do my best.

  • edited August 2016

    Because he can't deliver people from sin?

    well "your batman" is not a good friend >:(

  • ??? well 1. no and 2. because Batman is nice and he compromise with the villains some of the villains are his friends in tt so...you're basically saying you would not save your friends as tt Batman :P

    Agelastos posted: »

    Because he can't deliver people from sin?

  • edited August 2016

    No, I did not say that. I said that Batman can't "redeem their souls". He's a masked billionaire vigilante, not the f-ing savior/messiah/mahdi/maitreya/whathaveyou. He can still try to make them "see the error of their ways" or make sure they are sent to a prison/mental institution (maybe not Arkham, though)/whatever where they can get the help they need to - maybe, one day - be safely re-integrated into society (whether those programs actually work or not is a separate issue).

    ??? well 1. no and 2. because Batman is nice and he compromise with the villains some of the villains are his friends in tt so...you're basically saying you would not save your friends as tt Batman :P

  • edited August 2016

    it's telltale if they allow it, you should be able to do what you want by circumstance not miraculously but yea..only Superman can save us lol (Double entendre)

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    Agelastos posted: »

    No, I did not say that. I said that Batman can't "redeem their souls". He's a masked billionaire vigilante, not the f-ing savior/m

  • TellTale seems to be taking notes from RockSteady Games of the Batman Arkham franchise and FOX's Gotham TV series, and make their villains look and feel different, even their backstories are something new and unheard of.

  • Good one, didn't there was different words and languages for Savior and Messiah, which those last two words, what language was that, Hindi or Indian?

    Agelastos posted: »

    No, I did not say that. I said that Batman can't "redeem their souls". He's a masked billionaire vigilante, not the f-ing savior/m

  • Mahdi is Arabic. Maitreya is Sanskrit. Whathaveyou is nonsense.

    TDF16 posted: »

    Good one, didn't there was different words and languages for Savior and Messiah, which those last two words, what language was that, Hindi or Indian?

  • edited September 2016

    I can't believe that Harleen or Harley is going to be in the game. But if you turn their life around and the villains become good and not bad, who will Batman track down every night and put in Arkham Asylum?

  • There you go my friend, we got the chance to save Harvey Dent from becoming Two-Face, I wonder what'll be next

  • edited September 2016

    This would be great.

  • Redemption, forgiveness, and mercy are my bread and butter, so I'd hop on such a choice in a heartbeat.

  • I've saved Harvey Dent.

  • Wait was Harleen is Ep.2 and I missed it? Or are we just talking about if she potentially shows up?

  • Maybe we'll get to a point where Batman is no longer needed.

  • All I want to know is when can I continue to play my game on the Xbox 360.that's all.

  • Episode 4 might see Bruce head to Arkham Asylum. Maybe we might see Harleen there

    Wait was Harleen is Ep.2 and I missed it? Or are we just talking about if she potentially shows up?

  • edited October 2016

    I'd love for Harleen to be the chief psychologist of Arkham instead of someone more obvious like Hugo Strange.

    SilentmanX posted: »

    Episode 4 might see Bruce head to Arkham Asylum. Maybe we might see Harleen there

  • After playing episode 3 I suddenly see the effect of the choice of saving Harvey, and its Montoya. I have a feeling that by redeeming Harvey from becoming Two-Face we also have doomed Montoya into her path to villainy. I mentioned here that by redeeming a villain someone Bruce knows would become a villain, and with Harvey its Montoya

    Will Montoya become the villain at the end of this series if we continue to redeem Harvey?

  • Last gen episodes are usually about a month late, I'm in the same boat. We'll have to wait a bit more but it's worth the extra wait so far.

    Dwblnyc718 posted: »

    All I want to know is when can I continue to play my game on the Xbox 360.that's all.

  • All 3 episodes are out, dude.

    Ricoco7891 posted: »

    Last gen episodes are usually about a month late, I'm in the same boat. We'll have to wait a bit more but it's worth the extra wait so far.

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