Tales of monkey island on wii is unbearable

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Comments

  • edited July 2009
    I'm running on the idea that the Wii game is broke and I just wasted $10, and if I fiddle with some settings I might make a broken game bearable - which is still not how I wanted to enjoy this game. So based on that is it worth it to buy the PC game? I'm already feeling a bit ripped off but for some reason I still want this.

    Maybe I should just buy the updated original and wait and see how this plays out.
  • edited July 2009
    I think we've all gotten spoiled recently by pixel-perfect ports on the various consoles. Remember when inferior console game ports were the rule rather than the exception? I mean, just look at King's Quest V on the NES:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYlJX9GrSLY

    Yikes. But for people that didn't have a PC, at least they got to play the game.

    Of course, I haven't played the Wiiware version of TOMI, so I can't judge for myself just how "broken" it is. Could someone post more footage? The clip that was posted earlier in the thread honestly didn't look too bad to me...
  • edited July 2009
    I don't know if somebody already brought this up, but IGN reviewed Tales of MI on Wii, and while they do say "the game suffers from poor frame rate that causes jerky motions, and the graphics are a lot more muddled in the low-res Wii game" and "the load times as you transition between various parts of the game are a bit on the long side" they still give it a 7/10.

    http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/100/1008507p1.html

    I doubt they would give it a good score like this if the problems of the Wii version were that unbearable, and on the other side I don't think people reporting problems are inventing them. So maybe something went wrong when the game was actually uploaded on the wii store, or there could be specific conditions on some Wiis that make the frame rate worse than it should be (too much stuff on the console's hard drive maybe ?). I don't know.

    Maybe it's worth the time for Telltale to investigate the matter for future releases and put a "Wii FAQ" somewhere :)
  • edited July 2009
    salmonmax wrote: »
    I think we've all gotten spoiled recently by pixel-perfect ports on the various consoles. Remember when inferior console game ports were the rule rather than the exception? I mean, just look at King's Quest V on the NES:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYlJX9GrSLY

    I'm not sure that's a good example. The developers of KQV rewrote the game from scratch for it to work well with NES limitations.

    Of course, that's not a fair comparison, since they had much more time than TellTale did.
  • edited July 2009
    I've just registered for this forum today in order to weigh in:

    I downloaded the Wii version yesterday and played for several hours (I'm likely near the end of the episode?), and it was a very enjoyable experience throughout. Some of the people posting here are either prone to hyperbole or simply obsessive about minor loading / framerate issues that have no significant impact on a point & click adventure.

    The framerate was particularly low during the intro scene with LeChuck, yet even then quite tolerable, and after that point it remained perfectly acceptable throughout with only the little hiccups when something new is loaded -- but if you don't constantly dash forward when you enter a new screen, and give the sounds etc a chance to load, it doesn't really have a problem at all.

    I started out playing point & click games back in their heyday, and I've never thought of it as a genre that one rushes through, instead you take your time and enjoy the scenery and atmosphere of each new area. The occasional loading screen or pause when something new is about to occur is perfectly acceptable and doesn't hurt the experience one bit.

    Given the filesize limitations of WiiWare, the game's graphics are very impressive, and I've enjoyed every minute of playing it. I hope Telltale isn't discourage based on the usual phenomenon of a handful of disproportionately loud voices online: I imagine that most customers who download the game, and who enjoy this sort of genre, will have a great time and won't dwell on minor framerate or loading issues.

    Please continue to bring the remaining episodes to WiiWare, as this new series deserves great credit for reawakening the feel and humor of the classic Monkey Island games, and I much prefer playing on the TV with the Wii remote to sitting in front of my computer.
  • edited July 2009
    Sounds like there may have been some exaggeration on the part of some of the early posters, so I take back what I said. Still, it would be nice to see the game running more smoothly- it's very annoying to play a stuttery console game.
  • edited July 2009
    Answer me one question:

    Sam and Max for Wii, better or worse than tales of monkey island wiiware?

    Because I found sam and max s1 for wii to be extremely playable.
  • edited July 2009
    I don't know what Lucasarts specifications to 'make it for Wii' were, but surely releasing the whole season on disc after the PC run has ended would've made more sense TT guys?
  • edited July 2009
    To the people likening TMI on Wiiware to the Wii disc release of Sam & Max Season One, that's simply not true. Sam & Max Season One is very playable on the Wii. And I'm up to episode 5 now. I haven't played TMI on Wiiware yet, but I can imagine how choppy it'd be judging by what everyone is saying about it. There's no way Sam & Max Season One is that bad. Just saying.
  • edited July 2009
    I'm a big Monkey Island fan, but ive never been a PC gamer. I have only recently been able to load and play good games in my PC, HOWEVER when I tried to play games like Portal or TF2, they lagged like crazy and it put me off playing further.

    So when I found out this game would be available on the Wii, I didn't bother pre-ordering the PC version and instead, waited patiently for the Wii version to come out. It has always been my experience that if I wanted smooth, trouble free gameplay, I should always look to the game systems first.


    So now,what am I supposed to think? Everything I know has just been turned on it's ear! :mad:
  • edited July 2009
    Well, ten bucks isn't too much of a risk, for those of you who want to judge the Wii version for yourselves. If you're not too concerned about polish, the game is highly enjoyable, and I thought it was a worthy addition to the Monkey Island franchise, in terms of puzzles and atmosphere.

    I'm thinking about using the "Crossover Games" program that was mentioned on the forum here someplace, to check out the PC version.
  • Macfly77Macfly77 Moderator
    edited July 2009
    Well, ten bucks isn't too much of a risk, for those of you who want to judge the Wii version for yourselves. If you're not too concerned about polish, the game is highly enjoyable, and I thought it was a worthy addition to the Monkey Island franchise, in terms of puzzles and atmosphere.

    I'm thinking about using the "Crossover Games" program that was mentioned on the forum here someplace, to check out the PC version.

    I played through the whole game on my Mac using CrossOver Games and did not encounter any problem.
    Should you decide to check it out, follow the instructions on the tips/tricks tab of the Tales of Monkey Island page on the Code Weavers website.
    It also works with most other Telltale point-and-click games (not with Wallace and Gromit for me, though)!
  • edited July 2009
    [TTG] Yare wrote: »
    Please quit with the console fanboy stuff.
    The Wii and DS are extremely underpowered and their popularity doesn't remove the hardware limitations

    If Telltale is just a bunch of console bashing hypocrites, then I'm not sure I want to play their games. Why make a game for a console and then just insult it?
  • edited July 2009
    natlinxz wrote: »
    If Telltale is just a bunch of console bashing hypocrites, then I'm not sure I want to play their games. Why make a game for a console and then just insult it?

    How is it insulting to say that a console is underpowered? Especially when the console IS underpowered and it's a well known fact that it's underpowered?
  • edited July 2009
    Pale Man wrote: »
    How is it insulting to say that a console is underpowered? Especially when the console IS underpowered and it's a well known fact that it's underpowered?

    he also said something about the DS having a worse processor than a toaster. And the Wii is not underpowered. It can run mario galaxy just fine. It's underpowered when you try porting halo 3 or Crysis to it.
  • edited July 2009
    natlinxz wrote: »
    he also said something about the DS having a worse processor than a toaster. And the Wii is not underpowered. It can run mario galaxy just fine. It's underpowered when you try porting halo 3 or Crysis to it.

    The Wii's video capabilities are equivalent to approximately 7 year old video cards on the PC, that's pretty underpowered.
  • edited July 2009
    Pale Man wrote: »
    The Wii's video capabilities are equivalent to approximately 7 year old video cards on the PC, that's pretty underpowered.

    So you are saying the wii doesn't have as much graphics capabilities as it requires? I don't know about you, but Mario Kart Wii and Brawl work just fine for me.

    By your logic, the Xbox 360 is also underpowered...when you try to run PS3 games on it. So the argument that the Wii is underpowered just doesn't make sense.

    Nintendo seems to have games working fine on it, but some games just can't be ported. The 360 can't have every game ported to it either, and neither can the PS3 for that matter.
  • edited July 2009
    To those questioning, if you can play it on the PC do it. I thought it would be a comparable experience and it is not so I am switching over. I also think the problems might vary system to system. I bought mine first day and it seems to run far worse on it than others are claiming. I just wish I could get some credit back :'(
  • edited July 2009
    natlinxz wrote: »
    So you are saying the wii doesn't have as much graphics capabilities as it requires? I don't know about you, but Mario Kart Wii and Brawl work just fine for me.

    This is like comparing apples to oranges. Mario Kart and Brawl are disc-based titles, so their resources don't have to be hyper-compressed. Uncompressed resources mean less time is spent decompressing them at run time.

    Also, remember when I posted this?
    profit = ( (game price) * (copies sold) ) - (development cost)

    Profit can be (and is often) negative, by the way. You can trivially deduce from this equation that a company that expects to sell more copies at a higher price can afford to spend more on development.

    Unfortunately, copies sold is not a variable dependent on development cost. There are a lot of great games out there with very high production values that do mediocre sales. Valkyria Chronicles, Little Big Planet, and so on.
  • edited July 2009
    Well, originally, the wiis built in flash memory was for virtual console games. Most of which are in the KB. So Nintendo didn't see the need for a lot of space. When the Wiiware games came out, there wasn't a whole lot of space in a console designed for downloading NES games. But Nintendo had to start wiiware. Without some form of online distribution, they would lose a huge audience.

    However, now that they have SD card support, they really should remove the 40 meg limit.
  • edited July 2009
    @natlinxz

    I believe that's true about their initial plans and the VC, but the problem going forward is that the system update that allowed SD card functionality really wasn't anything but a shortcut -- all it does is quicky copy the game from your SD card to the internal NAND and then launch it. That's convenient enough generally, but it explains why you're required to have equivalent free space on the system in order to launch a game from SD, and it also explains why the 40mb limit is still somewhat necessary: launching larger games from SD would require more space to be kept open in the system memory at all times, more time for the preload when it copies the game, and more data being copied and erased on a frequent basis, possibly leading to a shorter lifespan for the internal memory.

    Anyhow, as I said above, I'm personally very satisfied with what ToMI was able to do within the 40mb limit, and I'll continue to purchase the episodes this way, even though I could run them on my computer.
  • edited July 2009
    natlinxz wrote: »
    However, now that they have SD card support, they really should remove the 40 meg limit.

    Yeah, I think the limit should be more like 100mb if they are going to impose a limit.
  • edited July 2009
    I was thinking a bigger limit would make sense with the SD card support, as well.

    If the rumors of an upcoming "WiiHD" have any truth to them, I'd think Nintendo would have to seriously consider expanding what can be delivered via Wiiware.
  • edited July 2009
    [TTG] Yare wrote: »
    There are a lot of great games out there with very high production values that do mediocre sales. Valkyria Chronicles, Little Big Planet, and so on.

    Littlebigplanet actually sold pretty well and continues to do so, well into the millions by now. Plus there's all the profit from the DLC and things.

    But yeah, I do see where you're coming from, I just think LBP's "failure" gets bandied about a lot when it's not strictly true.
  • edited July 2009
    natlinxz wrote: »
    So you are saying the wii doesn't have as much graphics capabilities as it requires? I don't know about you, but Mario Kart Wii and Brawl work just fine for me.

    They work fine in their respective domains and Nintendo does an excellent job to bypass the limiations, they keep the colors bright and dont use too much textures they rely heavily on guraud shading and keep the textures down and basically try to keep clean colors to hide the limitations instead of plastering textures all over the polygons. As soon as you hit a highly textured area you can see the limitations all over the place. Sorry it is like that. Modern graphics cards on the PC have about 5-10 times the amount of the entire ram of the wii, and about 10 times the power (if not even more)
    there was a huge jump around 2-3 years ago when the last DirectX hit the scene and the last console generation was introduced on chipset level, which Nintendo did not follow.
    And I can understand why, the games Nintendo does do not really demand a big hardware, they mostly are on the cartoony side.

    But that is not even the main issue, the main issue here is the 40 mb limit which basically enforced even more compression on texture and sound. I am rather sure a CD only version of TOMI whould have looked pretty much the same as Tomi on the PC on level 1-3 the game is not that demanding.
    But Telltale seems to have done a tremendous job to even get all this into the measly 40 mbs, wiiware enforces.
  • OMAOMA
    edited July 2009
    I'm afraid I agree with those that say that it shouldn't have been released for the Wii like that.

    The poor quality sound is Nintendo's fault for limiting to 40 MB, but the low framerates are a problem in Telltale's part. It should have been properly tested and optimized for the Wii before release.

    Also, the image in the Wii version is stretched. Why?

    All in all, this feels like a rushed release.
  • edited July 2009
    I was struck by Yare's comment that they needed to port this to the Wii. Was that a condition of the licensing agreement with Lucasarts? And if so why the Wii specifically?
  • edited July 2009
    OMA wrote: »
    The poor quality sound is Nintendo's fault for limiting to 40 MB, but the low framerates are a problem in Telltale's part. It should have been properly tested and optimized for the Wii before release.

    The low framerates are also a result of Wii system limitations, since it only has something like 80mb of RAM, and the OS uses a bit of that as well.

    The 40mb size limit also comes into play here too, as the game has to be so massively compressed to fit into the limit that a ton of system resources are being wasted on decompressing things and swapping things in and out of the decidely low amount of system RAM available.
  • edited July 2009
    @OMA



    The image in the Wii version doesn't look stretched in any way for me, but I have a standard aspect-ratio TV, and am I guessing correctly that you're running it in a widescreen ratio? Or, how did it seem stretched?

    I certainly disagree with your claim that it shouldn't have been released as it was--it's very enjoyable on the Wii, and looks great overall. Once again, there are likely many out there like myself who prefer to play something like this on the TV with the Wii remote, and others who may not even have the option of running it well on the PC to begin with.

    Have those complaining made it very far into the game? The framerate is worst right at the beginning with LeChuck, but once you reach the island it tends to be perfectly fine, except for little jumps here and there when something is clearly loading into memory.
  • edited July 2009
    For anybody experiencing issues with ToMI on the Wii, please direct your attention to this thread in our support forum before posting:

    http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=173147&postcount=16
  • edited July 2009
    The iphone is more powerful than the Wii? I'm not sure if that's true considering none of its games so far achieve anywhere near even GameCube standards, being closer to PS1 quality in terms of visuals. I'm also not sure how relevant it is to this discussion. Random commentary? Ok, sure.

    If the game has issues, it's up to Telltale. If the game was impossible to port, you should not port it. If your programmers can't take advantage of the Wii's architecture, so very different to the other systems as it is, you should not port it. If the game has issues that are actually resolvable with more time, you should not release until they're resolved.

    Yes, the WiiWare limit is VERY strict. TOO strict. Why not release on disc like Sam & Max? Not to mention that, if assets have to be reduced SO much for WiiWare, that should result in better performance instead of worse.

    Telltale games don't look half as good as the average (not the best) GameCube games out there, so to blame a more powerful system for the state of your ports is silly.

    You used strong words, yes. Except they also aren't true. In order to use strong words, you usually need strong feelings. With such feelings against the platform you're actually developing for, I'm not sure I trust you to use your ability. The only reason for ugly and underperforming Wii games, especially when it comes to low-budget low-graphical-fidelity titles like Telltale games are, is incompetence.

    Btw, heavy PC gamer here, say goodbye to my money despite your games running perfectly smooth on my platform of choice. This attitude I do not, will not, endorse :rolleyes:

    I don't see why this post gets deleted. Let's see if it it's a particular word or two I've removed here, or if it's simply the fact you don't want people's opinions here. Might as well close the forums except for a "praise only" thread.
  • edited July 2009
    Agnates wrote: »
    Btw, heavy PC gamer here, say goodbye to my money despite your games running perfectly smooth on my platform of choice. This attitude I do not, will not, endorse :rolleyes:

    So because of something one employee says as his own opinion completely not representative of the company, you are choosing to deprive yourself from playing amazing games?

    Good logic.
  • edited July 2009
    He's allowed to, and with that tag he represents telltale when he speaks, I'm sorry. It's how it works. Like I said, strong feelings require strong emotions and with that I do not trust them to perform to their full ability. If there's one, there's probably more. Yes, it's logic. He chooses to blame the platform for a bad port, I choose to blame telltale when I see employees, which make up telltale, act like this. Good job Yare. I'm outta here.
  • edited July 2009
    I'm not coming down hard one way or another on this, but the truth is if you're posting here as a representative from Telltale, your position is in sales, even if you're an engineer.

    Customers love their system of choice, even if it is an underpowered toaster. :)
  • edited July 2009
    Yeah I hope they don't have to compromise the pc version to cope with the wiiware problems
    In my opinion, Tales of MI has worse graphics (less detailed textures, and less detailed locations) than Wallace & Gromit, so the Wiiware version IS compromising the PC version... :mad:
  • edited July 2009
    Megaace wrote: »
    so the Wiiware version IS compromising the PC version... :mad:

    I really don't think so. As far as I understand it the PC version would be the one created first and any ports, like the Wii version, are derived from that PC version. So there is no need to compromise the PC version and so why would they?
  • edited July 2009
    I really don't think so. As far as I understand it the PC version would be the one created first and any ports, like the Wii version, are derived from that PC version. So there is no need to compromise the PC version and so why would they?

    The idea is that you could avoid problems down the line if you take eventual porting into account when putting together the PC version.
  • edited July 2009
    Agnates wrote: »
    He's allowed to, and with that tag he represents telltale when he speaks, I'm sorry. It's how it works. Like I said, strong feelings require strong emotions and with that I do not trust them to perform to their full ability. If there's one, there's probably more. Yes, it's logic. He chooses to blame the platform for a bad port, I choose to blame telltale when I see employees, which make up telltale, act like this. Good job Yare. I'm outta here.

    It wasn't my intent to "blame" the platform for the performance, I just thought some people might be interested in an explanation of how game development works, why the Wii version has lower quality voice, higher compression, and so on. However, it's our job to make a game work well no matter what platform we decide to release it on, and as a customer you are right to be concerned with the price/quality of the final product and not the development process.

    Official word on this issue will be provided by Will, most likely in this thread:

    http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=173147&postcount=16
  • edited July 2009
    [TTG] Yare wrote: »
    The voices and textures are the way they are because we're limited to 40 megs for WiiWare titles. The PC versions of our games are usually 150+ megs, and most modern games range anywhere from 1-10 gigabytes or more. Talk to Nintendo about this one.

    Frame rate issues will probably get sorted out eventually, but keep in mind that the Wii is just not a powerful console. An iPhone is much more powerful than a Wii, even.

    This kind of comments makes you, and the company you work for, look terribly bad at the eyes of everyone. The fact that you didn't suceed in making something that functions properly shouldn't be blamed on the WII's hardware. Metroid Prime runs without problems, and it is infinitely more beautifull and demanding that anything TellTale ever done. So please, make no excuses. I have a lot of love for TellTale, but these comments have got to go.
  • edited July 2009
    1.) Why Nintendo doesn't remove the size limitation on WiiWare
    -Because in order to run anything off the SD card, you need an equal amount of space on the Wii Console.
    -Not everyone owns SD cards

    2.) Why we havent seen anything better looking than a Wii Game from an iPhone App
    -Because no one wants to sit there and wait hours for a 1-3 GB game to download over ATT's network OR WiFi

    Not saying I agree or disagree with what this person has said, but seriously people.
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