What does A New Frontier do wrong?

edited June 2017 in The Walking Dead

After my thread asking for everything A New Frontier did right it only makes sense to have a polar opposite thread that goes over everything A New Frontier messed up.

Oh boy, this should be fun.
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Comments

  • Basically everything that shouldn't be done in a Telltale game.

  • lackluster writing, lack of character development, short episode lengths (literally only two of the episodes go up to 90 minutes. but, every episode has a flashback or two. so basically this makes the present-day time about 60-70 minutes per episode, even less for episode two), inconsistent writing and characters due to them changing whole teams of writers every single damn episode, us being told clementine is a sole character yet she is blatantly just there for fanservice, the devs not providing any closure whatsoever in the finale (what about joan, clint, eleanor, max, lonnie, aj, etc?), too much unrealistic shit (clem pinning a man roughly three times her size to the ground, richmond being saved extremely quickly, etc), most characters have no depth (i literally cared about three of the characters), forced romance, lies, cheesy dialogue here and there, glitches, forced scenes, lack of direction (shit just happens. barely anything happens in the episode anyways), kenny/jane/edith flashbacks, models, and cheap ass deaths, no hubs, barely any gameplay, etc, etc, etc....

  • Here's a list to help people out:

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    lackluster writing, lack of character development, short episode lengths (literally only two of the episodes go up to 90 minutes.

  • edited June 2017
    1. The lies: I guess this isn't directly on ANF, but the people advertising it. They said it would be their biggest season yet...wrong. They said Clementine would be a co-playable character...while not a complete lie, it's also not true. They said no character would take a back seat...wrong. They said Ties That Bind was too big for one episode...wrong, it comes out to about 2 and 1/2 hours, which was the length of an average S1 episode. Our endings would play a big role on ANF...again, half true. There are some changes to Clem's physical appearance and actions, but largely, she's the same, and the way they resolved the endings is one of the worst things I have ever seen in a Telltale game. The original description of this game said Clem was on a journey for revenge...wrong, she was never out for revenge once throughout the game, in fact, her main arc was just trying to get AJ back, not outright revenge. God knows what else I'm forgetting.
    2. Appealing to newcomers: Just why? In your 3rd main entry in your flagship series, why would you try to make it accessible to newcomers instead of outright continuing the focus you spent the previous 2 seasons working on, that being Clem. Wouldn't it have been more profitable to make an amazing 3rd season that gets people talking and can convince people to go out and buy all three seasons, instead of just buying this season and being told they don't need the first two in order to play it?
    3. Too many writers: Episodes 1-4 ranged from 5-8 writers per episode. Ties That Bind Part 1 had a total of 8 writers, the first two seasons had that same amount of writers COMBINED. While it could be beneficial to have more than one writer working on games like this, that way ideas can be bounced around more effectively, it could be equally hurtful to have too many writers. It leads to inconsistencies, inefficiency, a drop in quality, and several other problems, especially when they all aren't on the same page or get brought in halfway through the project. The last episode managed to only have one writer and still wasn't all that good, but it's not like previous episodes did a lot to set it up well.
    4. Obvious rewrites: By how it looks, the series went through a major overhaul from what was originally planned, and this goes all the way back to the first episode. What we know about what could have been and what we got is drastically different, you can find this evidence on the Details thread. From story threads getting dropped or changed, characters being removed, scenes getting cut to condense the length, planned flashbacks not being put into the game, and pretty much the entirety of Episodes 4 and 5.
    5. Love triange: One of the cheapest ways to create drama that has ever been put in fiction. I have yet to see anyone pull off a love triangle effectively, every instance I've seen has been executed poorly, and we see that in this game between Javi, Kate, and David. This became entirely more evident in later episodes, especially in 5, when Kate can either kiss Javi right in front of David or yells at Javi saying that she couldn't believe she loved either of them. Despite my attempts to avoid anything with Kate and stay loyal to David, I couldn't do anything to avoid this fight, it was a forced conflict that could have easily been avoided.
    6. It doesn't act as a continuation of Clem's story: This was clearly Javi's story and Clem was a glorified supporting character. She had no reason to be in this game at all other than for marketing reasons. Again, why would you take the focus off of the character that has been the main reason why this series has been as successful as it is? She had one reason to be in the season, and by the end of it, that purpose was never fulfilled, it just cheaply sets up the next game in the series. This leads me to my next point...
    7. Story and character arcs: Other than for Javi, none of the story or character arcs had a satisfying conclusion, some didn't even have a conclusion. You wanted to stop Joan/Clint, well too bad, they're gone and nowhere to be found. Gabe said he would step up and become more of a man, well he does nothing to prove himself throughout the game, never learns from his mistakes, and dies in an "emotional" death that has some people saying he proved himself. You were looking to resolve things with your brother, well if you and Clem went with Kate first, then David just dies. Again, Clem is out looking for AJ and serves as her whole purpose for being in this game, well she doesn't succeed and Telltale expects us to come back for the sequel in order to resolve it.
    8. Episode 5: One of the worst, if not the worst, episodes Telltale has ever made, this was a mess from start to finish. Outside of a couple of moments, it was just going from one scene to the next, with little to no substance in those scenes. Character motivations and mentalities change on a dime. The pacing was awful, again, it goes from one place to another and you never have a moment to just take a breath and take everything that just happened in. You see that best with Ava's determinant death, David goes from "Shit, Ava!" to "Let's keep going," after mourning for like 10 seconds. This is the same person that, if you tried to save Ava in the previous episode and go along with Clint's plan, attacks Clint and holds a gun to his head over her death. It makes this episode feel like a jumbled, unfocused mess. Most of my other problems with this episode are summed up by my previous points (unsatisfying conclusion to character/story arcs, obvious rewrites, forced conflicts).
    9. Treatment of our S2 endings: Do I really need to say anything about this, we all know they sucked.
    10. Episode lengths: Episodes 1 and 2 were 70 minutes, and Episode 5 was 75 minutes. Only Episodes 3 and 4 reach S2's average episode length, and S2 got plenty of complaints about episode lengths. When will Telltale learn that we like longer episodes. It looked like they were going to do that with TFTBL and GOT (hell, even Minecraft had decent length episodes), but this showed us that we were wrong. Now GOTG has good episode lengths again, but I'm not getting my hopes up that we'll see it in TWD.
    11. Romance: I touched on it with the love triangle point, but now this is covering the romance stuff as a whole, absolutely none of it was good. Tripp and Eleanor was one sided and, honestly, borderline creepy. Kate is incredibly selfish and tries to hop on Javi's dick before she even thinks of talking to David. And Gabe and Clem was just, to quote Clem, "Gross." These characters knew each other for 3 days, and the extent of their romantic development was through other characters saying things about them (Eleanor saying they might hit it off, Kate saying Gabe has a crush on Clem, blah blah blah). And the fact is that it took up a huge amount of screen time throughout the series is why it's such a huge thing the series did wrong. If you're going to have romantic subplots like this, make it fucking good.
    12. Lack of hubs and exploration: S2 got a lot of shit for this, and it doesn't look like Telltale got the fucking message for ANF. Look at Episode 3, except for the part where we have to fins a way into the building, we don't actually have any control of Javi throughout the episode. And even in the other episodes, there wasn't a hell of a lot of this type of stuff, which can help develop characters and make the game a more enjoyable experience.
    13. Characters: So many of these characters are one dimensional or have little to no character to them at all. And the reason why is because we never really had the time to get to know them, which could have easily been fixed by adding more hubs. And a lot of the time, they change motivations on the dime and act very inconsistently. One episode, Kate wants to leave Richmond, two episodes later, for no reason, she wants to save it. David didn't want to leave Richmond, but in Episode 5, he wants to get the hell out. The game offers some form of motivation to it (Kate feels guilty, David looking out for his family), but even then it doesn't add up. Kate has always been very selfish throughout the game, and David talks about how he's a soldier and not a family man. As a soldier, who looks and sees a battlefield, want to stay and fight to try and save the people trapped there? God it doesn't make sense. Joan is one of the worst villains I can remember, Badger is this game's version of Troy from S2, Clint just goes along with Joan's plan with little persuasion, and characters like Tripp and Eleanor are just so forgettable. Characters like Kate and Gabe, who do actually go through some development, are just so unlikable that you just can't bring yourself to care for them.
    14. Dialogue: Some of the dialogue in this game reach LiS levels of cringe. These are professional writers, right? LiS has the excuse that they were French writers trying to write American teens, what the hell is the excuse for the ANF writers?
    15. No next time segments: I guess I can also put this under rewrites, but I'll give it its own point. None of the episodes featured a next time segment, this is probably the biggest indicator that Telltale had no fucking idea what they were doing and heavily changing/rewrote most of the game. And if it's not, then I would very much like to know what their logic was not putting them in. Every other series has them (except for penultimate episodes, but that at least makes sense), so why not include them?

    God knows how many other problems I'm leaving out, but these are the ones off the top of my head.

  • enter image description here

    * The lies: I guess this isn't directly on ANF, but the people advertising it. They said it would be their biggest season yet...wr

  • Everything. Here is why:

    • Clementine seeking revenge BUSTED
    • Slaughterhouse BUSTED
    • Longer episodes BUSTED
    • Hubs BUSTED
    • Co-playable Clementine BUSTED
    • Season 2 Endings as big impacts for ANF BUSTED
    • Character development BUSTED

    This doesn't feel like a Walking Dead game, it feels more like a game directed by Michael Bay due to the repetetive QTEs and action focus.

  • edited June 2017

    Well seems like everything that was wrong with the second season was simply augmented then amplified tenfold in New Frontier. Which proves they never listened to customer complaints from the last mistakes they made... and then turn around after taking a longer time to make the game recreated the same problems but worse. Then tried to "accommodate" a nearly non existent group of players. Then the final nail in the coffin, they pushed the only character that has ties to Lee and the Macon group to the background. Might not of been so bad if the story was still great and was interesting, because I believe you can have a good story and great new charactersfif they are done justice. Season 2 had those issues but rather than improve they drove further down the ditch they crashed into. What this once great series has become presently is about the only thing they've done, that is waaaay sadder than Lee's departure.

  • Dialogue: Some of the dialogue in this game reach LiS levels of cringe. These are professional writers, right? LiS has the excuse that they were French writers trying to write American teens, what the hell is the excuse for the ANF writers?

    Also, the dialogue options don't even match to what results the protagonist to say, like:

    • Tell him off = You know what, David? It's time to grow up, your wife is gonna leave your ass
    • Holy shit = Oh my god, you let them brand you?
    • Help me find her! = Shut up, for once, and help me find her!

    * The lies: I guess this isn't directly on ANF, but the people advertising it. They said it would be their biggest season yet...wr

  • Cop outs. That is all.

  • edited June 2017

    Episode 5: One of the worst, if not the worst, episodes Telltale has ever made, this was a mess from start to finish.

    Really? I thought From the Gallows was one of the stronger episodes, besides the cheap deaths of Tripp and Ava.

    And that god-awful haircut.

    * The lies: I guess this isn't directly on ANF, but the people advertising it. They said it would be their biggest season yet...wr

  • I'll never understand people dissing LiS dialogue.

    * The lies: I guess this isn't directly on ANF, but the people advertising it. They said it would be their biggest season yet...wr

  • LiS dialogue is the type of dialogue you'd expect from grown men who don't know how teenagers work in the 21st century. But the story is pretty solid I gotta give them that.

    xXOldKingXx posted: »

    I'll never understand people dissing LiS dialogue.

  • Well I can only say you're wrong, but I can see this is going to be a pointless argument.

    LiS dialogue is the type of dialogue you'd expect from grown men who don't know how teenagers work in the 21st century. But the story is pretty solid I gotta give them that.

  • edited June 2017

    Really? As someone who was in high school when the game came out, I can safely tell you that no one acts like that. Sure there are those character tropes like the jock and the nerd, but the dialogue is pure cringe. Stuff like "hella" and "Are you cereal" and "amazeballs" is not something teens say. The only time teens say cereal instead of serious is when we quote the Manbearpig episode of South Park and do an Al Gore impersonation.

    xXOldKingXx posted: »

    I'll never understand people dissing LiS dialogue.

  • edited June 2017

    I use hella on a daily basis, lol. Maybe I'm just weird.

    Really? As someone who was in high school when the game came out, I can safely tell you that no one acts like that. Sure there are

  • Agree to disagree. Other than the handling of choices, I thought it was poorly written, had terrible pacing, character motivations made no sense, it was incredibly short, and had a cheap set up for a next installment.

    Episode 5: One of the worst, if not the worst, episodes Telltale has ever made, this was a mess from start to finish. Real

  • Either that or I hang around with people who just don't use the word. Seriously, before this game, I never even knew hella was a thing.

    I use hella on a daily basis, lol. Maybe I'm just weird.

  • Highschool slang isn't the same everywhere. And only Chloe and Max use it, so it's probably from back when they were kids.

    Really? As someone who was in high school when the game came out, I can safely tell you that no one acts like that. Sure there are

  • But when they were kids was the exact same time I was a kid? In the (at the time) 17 years of my life when the game came out, never had I once heard any kid, teen, or adult say that word. And ever since the game out, I actually tried to be more perceptive and see if anyone does (and not just with hella, but for some of the other cringy dialogue in the game), I'm now 19, almost 20, and I have still never heard anyone say hella. I'm in college now, with people from all over the country, and I have still never heard it once in conversation. Either it's a huge coincidence, or LiS writers can't write good teen dialogue.

    xXOldKingXx posted: »

    Highschool slang isn't the same everywhere. And only Chloe and Max use it, so it's probably from back when they were kids.

  • [glass him]

    AronDracula posted: »

    Dialogue: Some of the dialogue in this game reach LiS levels of cringe. These are professional writers, right? LiS has the excuse

  • Even if the slang would be imaginary it doesn't make a difference. Slang is slang what words are used are largely irrelevant. They could be using N00B and PWNT and 1337 h4x0r the impact is the same. It's an insider thing they use to differentiate themselves from others, which is a real teenage thing. And if that makes you cringe then I guess that's a shame.

    But when they were kids was the exact same time I was a kid? In the (at the time) 17 years of my life when the game came out, neve

  • I'm waiting for an option which says [Book him].

    [glass him]

  • Life is Strange's dialogue was awful. Yes people do use slang in real life but not to that extreme. You can't seriously be defending lines like "Why don't you go fuck your selfie." and "You're going to get in a hella lot more trouble over this than drugs." right?

    xXOldKingXx posted: »

    I'll never understand people dissing LiS dialogue.

  • I can and I will.

    Cocoa2736 posted: »

    Life is Strange's dialogue was awful. Yes people do use slang in real life but not to that extreme. You can't seriously be defendi

  • Like I said, I use "hella", but I'm just a weird person. lol.

    Cocoa2736 posted: »

    Life is Strange's dialogue was awful. Yes people do use slang in real life but not to that extreme. You can't seriously be defendi

  • Some of it was pretty cringy like "hella" "bidness" "sad face" ???

    xXOldKingXx posted: »

    Well I can only say you're wrong, but I can see this is going to be a pointless argument.

  • Well okay then, if you think that spouting slang whilst having a gun pointed pointed to your head is believable dialogue who am I to argue?

    xXOldKingXx posted: »

    I can and I will.

  • [Proceeds to knock Him out and stuff Him in the nearest car trunk]

    Makes sense...

    AronDracula posted: »

    I'm waiting for an option which says [Book him].

  • i was trying to be really positive about the game UNTIL episode five came out. the only thing i was happy with was the treatment of gabe. there are many cons, such as offscreen deaths for main characters, horrible pacing, an incredibly short length (75 minutes, but without the flashback, 60 minutes of present time), lack of closure (where are joan, clint, max, lonnie, aj, etc?), cringey scenes (when kate kissed you in front of david, gabentine), kate and david wanting the complete opposite of what was established in previous episodes, tripp/ava deaths, david fighting you regardless of whether you were romantic w kate or not, clementine acting very positive around david when she fucking hated him a day ago, eleanor's very minimized role (her betrayal could've and should've been a large plot point but it was brushed over completely), the shooting not having really any resolution, they kinda just escape it, richmond being saved super easily, no hubs, david apparently looking for kate in the beginning when he was supposed to be trying to kill clint/joan, gabe too, kate asking if she wants to start a family if you're romantic when either david and/or gabe die (that's not just her being a thot, that's bad writing), etc.

    Episode 5: One of the worst, if not the worst, episodes Telltale has ever made, this was a mess from start to finish. Real

  • yeah, some of the dialogue was really cringey but the game as a whole was pretty good

    LiS dialogue is the type of dialogue you'd expect from grown men who don't know how teenagers work in the 21st century. But the story is pretty solid I gotta give them that.

  • im just gonna state four from episode 5 because if i called out every thing wrong with Ties that bind part 1 and 2 this comment would be way too big so here we go:
    1: Where did Clint and Joan go? And also just as a bonus why did Joan s scene of getting executed or exiled and Clint s scene of picking what to do about the stolen supplies get deleted in favor of Lolz they dissapeared?
    2: Why did Conrad dissapear even thought he was right next to you in the end of episode 4 only to appear in the ending of episode 5?
    3: Ava s death scene.
    4: WTF IS THIS?
    enter image description here

  • edited June 2017

    When the weed is just right

    UrbanRodrik posted: »

    im just gonna state four from episode 5 because if i called out every thing wrong with Ties that bind part 1 and 2 this comment wo

  • The easier question would be what did they do right? Which would be nothing.

  • I just got it on ps4 and I'm enjoying it.

    yeah, some of the dialogue was really cringey but the game as a whole was pretty good

  • I used to when I was a bit younger. I feel old now lmao.

    Like I said, I use "hella", but I'm just a weird person. lol.

  • Well, to be fair, I'm almost 19, so I'm kinda young.

    I used to when I was a bit younger. I feel old now lmao.

  • The moment TT decided to name it A New Frontier instead of Season 3 was the moment when shit hit the fan. Everything went downhill from there.

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