John Doe 'loves' Bruce? (Anthony Ingruber's thoughts on John's infatuation with Bruce)

So a new players space part came out recently and Anthony got to talking about how he thinks John sees Bruce at the 3:00 mark. I found what he said really interesting so I wanted to make a discussion about it. Anthony basically talked about John's infatuation with Bruce and essentially he said that John does love Bruce. To clarify I don't think he was suggesting any romantic feelings (though that's certainly possible) but more that he has a really deep attachment to Bruce. I see it more as a best friend kinda deal.

I just found that really interesting and wanted to see some of your thoughts on that! What do you think about John's infatuation with Bruce and Anthony believing that he loves him? (As a side note you should definitely watch the players space videos. The stuff Anthony says is really interesting!)

«1

Comments

  • What ? No. He is playing us.

  • So you don't think John has any kind of attachment to Bruce? You just think he's an evil manipulator?

    What ? No. He is playing us.

  • couldnt find the bit where he said it, gonna watch whole vid later but I actually got that vibe from ep 1 alone. Like you said, not romantic love but bc I was kind to john he definitely seemed very.... keen and attached to Bruce. He seemed so sincere and lost aroubd Bruce so he probs will jst cling to him if your nothing but kind and friendly. Telltale already said that the way we treat john will affect him and Antony was saying similar stuff to, like how john might not really become full joker so I think he could love Bruce in a way :/ maybe? Or maybe I'm jst being optimistic.

  • edited August 2017

    Wish It was romantic thou lmao

  • It's at the 3:00 minute mark that I'm talking about. During the scene where Iman is questioning Bruce about John. It's very shortly after they make jokes about John listing Bruce as his emergency contact.

    And yeah I really do think John is very strongly attached to Bruce. Anthony mentions that during the funeral scene his first take he was going for a more enthusiastic tone but Telltale wanted him to act more nervous like he was on a first date. Which makes sense because I got a vibe that John was really nervous about how I'd react to the card like a "Oh please like me!" And John seems to get really stressed out and frustrated if you react negativity to his card or refuse to meet his friends. He seems to obsess over Bruce's approval and if he upsets him in any way he's internally like "Ugh, you idiot" and seems to be angry at himself.

    couldnt find the bit where he said it, gonna watch whole vid later but I actually got that vibe from ep 1 alone. Like you said, no

  • XD I bet! I've seen quite a few shippers on tumblr.

    Wish It was romantic thou lmao

  • Yes. He is a psycopath.

    AgentZ46 posted: »

    So you don't think John has any kind of attachment to Bruce? You just think he's an evil manipulator?

  • Being insane doesn't automatically make you evil.

    Yes. He is a psycopath.

  • Ah yeah jst seen it. It don't seem like Antony was joking around (no pun intended) he seemed like he honestly thinks john loves Bruce in a way. i guess as the VA of john he's gotta have a bit of inside knowledge to what's happening so hopefullly we do get a fair amount of bromance

    AgentZ46 posted: »

    It's at the 3:00 minute mark that I'm talking about. During the scene where Iman is questioning Bruce about John. It's very shortl

  • Wait.

    So he ISN'T manipulating Bruce?

    Well that sounds interesting. Maybe the theory that he is really just a mentally sick guy who is being manipulated by his doctor, Harleen Quinzel, turns out to be true after all.

  • The Joker has always loved Batman. Watch/read The Dark Knight Returns if you need it anymore spelled out for you.

  • I don't think it's really about joker and batman but more john and Bruce. I ain't really a big batmxn fan but have they done that b4?

    AnimalBoy posted: »

    The Joker has always loved Batman. Watch/read The Dark Knight Returns if you need it anymore spelled out for you.

  • He is not only insane, he is fiercely calculating.

    AgentZ46 posted: »

    Being insane doesn't automatically make you evil.

  • Someone hasn't read their Batman comic books. The Dark Knight Returns/Death of the Family definitely shows that the Joker loves Batman.

    What ? No. He is playing us.

  • The Joker has always shown a bit of an obsession/love for Batman. I wouldn't say it's outright romantic love, more of a can't live without my polar opposite love, but their have been a few stories with undertones.

    I don't think it's really about joker and batman but more john and Bruce. I ain't really a big batmxn fan but have they done that b4?

  • That's sorta what I mean thou, that's joker, the villain being obsessed with batman, the hero. At the moment it's jst john loving(maybe) Bruce. I feel it's different if john loves/is obsessed with Bruce before they become enemies.

    AnimalBoy posted: »

    The Joker has always shown a bit of an obsession/love for Batman. I wouldn't say it's outright romantic love, more of a can't live without my polar opposite love, but their have been a few stories with undertones.

  • The Rumor Come Out: Does The Joker Is Gay?

  • I agree that it certainly is an interesting possibility. I'd be open to see telltale try their hand at this (weather it's friendship, romance, somewhere in between), basically a Joker who strays from the norm.

    Oh and the "Oh good, I wasn't sure..." line if you like his card, the genuine relief in John's tone put a smile on my face.

  • Hard for that to happen in the comic because it's never been confirmed if Joker knows that Bruce is Batman /the Joker hasn't had many interactions with Bruce.

    That's sorta what I mean thou, that's joker, the villain being obsessed with batman, the hero. At the moment it's jst john loving(maybe) Bruce. I feel it's different if john loves/is obsessed with Bruce before they become enemies.

  • edited August 2017

    Processing to erase from my memory what i just read ....

    enter image description here

  • TellTale is doing their own thing here, so other Batman stories do not matter much.

    But the main thing here is, thread is talking about John Doe and Bruce Wayne. That is an entirely different relationship. It is not the same as Joker and Batman.

    AnimalBoy posted: »

    Someone hasn't read their Batman comic books. The Dark Knight Returns/Death of the Family definitely shows that the Joker loves Batman.

  • Why?

    Dydix958 posted: »

    Processing to erase from my memory what i just read ....

  • So the reason John's has such interest in Bruce is because he's gotta crushy on him?

    ;_; that is the cutest shit ever. I bet John wants them to team up and be best buddies. Selina you've been replaced!

  • I always equated it to deep emotional love on Joker's part...he does these horrible things so that Batman has a reason to keep fighting...and of course he gets to battle Bats in a test of wills. I am sure on some level Batman does enjoy their relationship.

    Telltale is changing it up by having John emotionally attached to Bruce Wayne...a man that has a bit of a dark streak that calls to John...I am almost certain that somewhere in the back of his mind...he knows Bruce is Batman...but when Bruce/Batman destroys the pact...John will see it as a form of Betrayal...because in his mind...he is letting Bruce embrace his dark side without understanding that Bruce is a hero...who does not do things for the thrill.

  • If that's true, I'll explode from excitement because I already find John Doe to be extremely adorable. When he called Riddler mean and rude at the funeral, I literally squealed. He reminds me of a little boy.

  • He does have a kind of boyish charm to him. He seems so excited to see Bruce. The way he reacts if you reject his selfie makes you so sad.

    If that's true, I'll explode from excitement because I already find John Doe to be extremely adorable. When he called Riddler mean and rude at the funeral, I literally squealed. He reminds me of a little boy.

  • I'm glad he didn't offer me a selfie, I honestly have no idea what would I do in this situation.

    AgentZ46 posted: »

    He does have a kind of boyish charm to him. He seems so excited to see Bruce. The way he reacts if you reject his selfie makes you so sad.

  • It's quite obvious that "John Doe" is likely alias. It fits to the Joker's persona.

    When he doesn't want people to know who he is, he typically uses these kind of names. Fake alias is his thing.

    so yeah, expect him and Batman clash over killing vs bringing criminals to justice. Would Batman overlook what the Joker does or enforce his own beliefs and taking him down.

  • John Doe is literally a name given to him by the people at Arkham because he refused to give out his name. No one believes that it's his real name, so I don't know what it is that you're trying to say.

    Clord posted: »

    It's quite obvious that "John Doe" is likely alias. It fits to the Joker's persona. When he doesn't want people to know who he

  • edited August 2017

    My initial impression of him from the asylum was that he was creepy, someone who got off on picking on others for his amusement - like he did to that one schizophrenic guy who was obsessed about a plot against the president, or setting Zsasz off by cutting him. I get he did that thing with Zsasz to help Bruce, but I think he would do things like that just to keep himself amused regardless of whether it served any greater purpose.

    He likes creating drama just for the sake of it. Remember how excited he was by the idea of Lady Arkham clashing with Harvey? He didn't seem to care that innocent people would get hurt in the process... maybe as if his grasp on reality is tenuous and he doesn't think of the repercussions to other people.

    I do not trust him at all or think him cute. His social incompetence does not make him endearing to me. But I do think him being romantically attracted to Bruce could be interesting. His need to meet a kindred spirit makes sense, in the way it made sense for Hannibal to seek out Will Graham on the TV show Hannibal. Didn't make me like Hannibal one bit more, either.

    If that's true, I'll explode from excitement because I already find John Doe to be extremely adorable. When he called Riddler mean and rude at the funeral, I literally squealed. He reminds me of a little boy.

  • Well i don't know why but strangly the relation between batman and joker kind of reminds me of this :

    especially the joke he tells batman " two guys escaping a lunatic asylum" :p

  • Its so gay and messed up dude. Why would anybody want to see this?

    AgentZ46 posted: »

    Why?

  • edited August 2017

    Being gay isn't a problem.

    As for it being messed up? A relationship with him would be messed up, yeah, because he is clearly mentally ill and there would always be a power imbalance in the relationship because of it (NOT for being m/m), but it is not like TellTale would let Bruce get with him on that mental state anyway.

    But it is not like we are talking about the possibility of a relationship. We are talking about the implications of John Doe's infatuation with Bruce. If it turns out that John Doe genuinely likes Bruce and isn't trying to manipulate him, that would be a very interesting and unexpected development that I would be very interested in.

    ScootyZ posted: »

    Its so gay and messed up dude. Why would anybody want to see this?

  • Well put.

    Abeille posted: »

    Being gay isn't a problem. As for it being messed up? A relationship with him would be messed up, yeah, because he is clearly m

  • Sure, that may be true sometimes. But this is Joker we are talking about man.

    AgentZ46 posted: »

    Being insane doesn't automatically make you evil.

  • I read it too. And I think it meant more as an obsession Joker has for Batman, which would be 'Joker's twisted way' of showing something remotely like love.

    AnimalBoy posted: »

    Someone hasn't read their Batman comic books. The Dark Knight Returns/Death of the Family definitely shows that the Joker loves Batman.

  • Joker rarely finds himself interested in any person at all. This is rare, since he loathes everything around him. He can sometimes have an interest, which can be shown towards his criminal allies (penguin, harley, riddler, etc), and mainly towards Batman.

    In this game, we can see him being mixed up in Bruce Wayne's life. Bruce, being him, must have accidentally attracted Joker the same way. Joker can smell that mystery in Bruce, which drives him closer in an obsessive way. His whole "charm" isn't more than a manipulation. This is the Joker after all, always finding a smart way inside people's brains. That whole play he does is nothing more than an act, he knows exactly what he is doing.

    Joker knew that listing Bruce as his emergency contact would give Bruce the wrong attention. Plus, it also signals how much of an interest he has on him. It was a smart way of hooking Bruce and tying him with him. Think about it. Bruce goes to Arkham, and Joker sees a chance within that rich playboy with a lot of weight to move around, so getting Bruce to owe him was a good way of ensuring that their "friendship" would be useful later on.
    Joker is using us, because he is a genius evil mastermind.

  • You're talking as if you know the character very well which makes me think you're basing this on other Batman stories. In my opinion that's the absolutely wrong way to think about this.

    Joker rarely finds himself interested in any person at all. This is rare, since he loathes everything around him. He can sometimes

Sign in to comment in this discussion.