RANT - Alfred Scene (S2 Ep5 Spoilers)

I'm sorry to say, but while I enjoyed for the most part the series, and tolerated the creative direction the team wrote with the story (Bruce Wayne's dad a criminal, Vicky Vale a Villain, Lucius Fox dying), the straw for me was this:

Alfred trying to leave Bruce for choosing to be Batman goes against canon and goes against the main crux of what Batman entails. Alfred, for better and worse, has always been by Bruce's side, not just as a father, but also as someone who shared with Bruce the aim of ridding Gotham of the criminal underworld. Super criminals, or criminals that are born with the intent of destroying Batman has never wavered Alfred's support because as one of the options clearly stated: there is more good than evil to balance. In Alfred's eyes and as he had always believed: Batman is good and is the hero Gotham needs.

So this Alfred, for lack of better words and no ill will to the team, is disappointing and hypocritical. I wasted season one risking an ear and damage for this guy, go with his plan and the agency, and managed to make Joker less of an insane murdering maniac, and the thanks I get is an ultimatum: Chose between him and the cause he and Bruce believed in.

And for what reason? The half-arsed "you will die the same as your dad, Bruce."

No, just no. Philosophically, even if the end were the same, which is highly unlikely with the means and ends Batman trained endlessly to strive against the gun and the criminal, is dying a Villain the same as dying a hero? Is dying for a good cause worth the means to save those you care about, over dying due to personal greed?

I hope Alfred comes back in season 3 and returns rightfully by Batmans side.

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Comments

  • Screw Alfred! Gotham needs Batman! They didnt really say much of a goodbye, thanks for everything kinda thing did they? He just went!! Never apparently to be seen again!
    Least he made me dinner though..

  • You forgot a basic point of Alfred's reasoning: Thomas Wayne caused the destruction of his own family because of his obsession. Bruce is heading to a similar end from his point of view.

    Since Bruce's father wasn't a good person, you can't apply the same rules from other Batman stories. He didn't die a martyr, he brought a lot of suffer and problems to his loved ones and Gotham because he didn't know when to stop, wich parallels Bruce's crusade against crime. He wasn't able to stop Thomas, so he now feels like he has to act with his son in order to not feel guilty again for letting a Wayne destroy the family and the city.

  • Goes against what canon? The game is not based on any existing canon so it goes down it`s own path. Your arguments are invalid.

  • Personally I just thought it was the voice actor leaving and TT couldn't find anyone else to play Alfred so they wrote him off. Maybe I'm wrong. But if I am wrong and the VA for Alfred is still okay to play Alfred. Then yes this was a stupid decision by TT to write Alfred from the story.

  • Except with Bruce's crusade, Thomas brought problems and did nothing other than bring ruination where we as Bruce made the best and fought tooth and nail to stop that something his father didn't. It is a poor excuse and something I feel very cheated since season one risking me neck for him.

    DOBLEDEDO posted: »

    You forgot a basic point of Alfred's reasoning: Thomas Wayne caused the destruction of his own family because of his obsession. Br

  • edited March 2018

    Every single one where Alfred and Bruce confide with each other (Nightfall, TMNT crossover, etc.). Instead of acting like a gatekeeper of whose argument is invalid or not, please read again from the perspective of why I feel cheated. On it's own I supported the team taking creating creative liberty but this scene to me was a low blow because the argument for it is weak and poorly considered.

    Let me lay it out:

    Alfred blames Bruce for letting Joker get too close and created him. Which mind if I let joker not trust me he killed thousands upon thousands as a villain instead of several.

    Says I will meet the same end as the Dad when in reality Batman by his actions and how he makes Tiffany a protege, giving villains a chance to do good, Gordon the ability to redeem himself for letting him get the better of him, stopping Waller's mess, and freeing Catwoman.

    This to me spells more than what Thomas ever did and he died a Villain doing nothing for the citizens of Gotham.

    0v3rp0w3r posted: »

    Goes against what canon? The game is not based on any existing canon so it goes down it`s own path. Your arguments are invalid.

  • I think Alfred's choice made a lot of sense...and basically he does not want to have to bury the last Wayne because of some crusade.

  • edited March 2018

    It broke my heart seeing Alfred go, but unlike at first, I don't regret my decision on staying as Batman. I love Alfred obviously, but him guilt tripping me over all the villains left a bitter taste in my mouth.

    I'm not saying that I'm not partly to blame for Joker and such, but it wasn't my Bruce's fault for Lady Arkham, Two-Face, Cobblepot, Harley, Bane, etc.

    Bruce shouldn't be blamed for the sins of his father. He's chosen a much different path. The "heading for destruction" is probably true; Bruce, after all, goes out every night and fights bad guys. Something bad is going to happen to him eventually. But my Bruce would rather die fighting for what he believes in.

    I'll miss Alfred. He's a wonderful, caring, brilliant man, and Bruce wouldn't be where he is without him. But I don't regret my decision of letting him go. I believe Alfred will be happier this way, and he deserves no less than that.

  • My only issue with this scene is how the game kinda just ends abruptly after whichever choice you do. It felt like it was missing like 30 seconds. Staying with Alfred does end well on the hug, but if you chose Batman I feel like they should have added like a quick little ending scene with Batman going to the Bat signal like either driving there or standing over a roof top or something lmao

  • Well It was very hard choice i chose both to see how it's gonna end and i didn't like how ''joker'' turned into a villain even if he is vigilante i thought he would be good but nope he's bad either way and i hope at least in season 3 (i am pretty sure they will make because there is a lot more to do there and i am asking myself can superman come in season 3 or other allies :| or batman telltale series is gonna be just for batman and gotham city not including other heroes from DC universe

  • But that's the thing: It was a crusade Alfred wanted and helped make. Apart from my other points, the other excuse given that it was an obsession. Again philosophically, Thomas wanted an empire, using his powers for evil, and used his resources for evil. his obession was money, power, and the cost was him and his family nearly gunned down (with Bruce surviving). Bruce, and all the actions I did in the game, was the complete opposite. His only obsession is the same as Alfred's: To save Gotham. This WHOLE season showed that Bruce can not do it as Bruce Wayne. What actually makes change, both good and bad, with good outweighing, is Batman.

    I think Alfred's choice made a lot of sense...and basically he does not want to have to bury the last Wayne because of some crusade.

  • But that is now in question isn't it. The villains are changing to meet the threat of the Batman...becoming more extreme and craftier because they have to. I am not arguing that Alfred is completely right...but he is not wrong either...and if there is ever a 3rd season...I am sure Al will be back....but his heart is not in it just now.

    Ronin_Zanoh posted: »

    But that's the thing: It was a crusade Alfred wanted and helped make. Apart from my other points, the other excuse given that it w

  • (We try to reserve the "Talk with Telltale" tag for threads created by Telltale Staff members for when they talk with fans, such as AMAs, feedback threads, etc.)

  • Gosh I was so torn with this choice. In the end, I gave up Batman, because Al is my father in my story. I'd would gladly give up a part of me for family, and with Al being the last of my family, I couldn't let him go. But Batman is who I am, but I don't think it was worth losing my father. Just my opinion

  • edited March 2018

    I agree here because Bruce's father was the same thing since he's a criminal and seeing this he sees Bruce heading in the same direction. While in this case it was all Waller's fault I do however see Alfred's point

    In most version there are different Batmen that have been in the same position and often made decisions that ultimately ruin them. Alfred suffers because of it and this is what ultimately traumatize him. He's afraid the same would happen to Bruce and he feels he would be broken if he witness the same fate. I don't like that Alfred left but I do understand him. I let him go because I do care for him and I would spare him of his suffering

    DOBLEDEDO posted: »

    You forgot a basic point of Alfred's reasoning: Thomas Wayne caused the destruction of his own family because of his obsession. Br

  • Another rant and I agree with this one.

  • My apologies. Will refrain from future use.

    (We try to reserve the "Talk with Telltale" tag for threads created by Telltale Staff members for when they talk with fans, such as AMAs, feedback threads, etc.)

  • That kinda argument only works when it’s on a personal level Like Joker in the Villain path, we hurt him and he lashes out at Gotham to hurt us, but it doesn’t work in a general sense. Bane, Freeze, Harley, Two-Face, Penguin and Lady Arkham all either existed before Batman or came about cause of their own agendas and issues. Even Riddler was doing his own thing when Bruce was just a kid. If your going to use this argument it has to be on a personal level because it just falls flat in a broad sense.

    But that is now in question isn't it. The villains are changing to meet the threat of the Batman...becoming more extreme and craf

  • It was very similar in the dark knight rises wasnt it?

  • Your more likely to enjoy this game if u treat it like a new and fresh approach on
    batman, rather than another completely/mostly comic accurate Arkham Game (I have nothing against the Arkham games, they’re awesome !!), regardless of whether or not Alfred gains natural feelings and instincts.

  • This game is awesome because ITS DIFFERENT and more grounded.

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