Did john relay just fight and kill all of them with self defense or were some strait up murdered.
At first it was self defense but then he push it too far, he unleash that beast inside of him which he was talking about. The ageny is like shoot first ask questions later and they were probably rude which made joker go nuts.
They likely shot first. John doesn't tend to outright lie.
Of course, he definitely went way overboard, to the extent that you couldn't rule it self-defense unless you're as crazy as John was. But he probably viewed it as what had to be done as he was in the situation-- He's just not a good judge.
What happened to those 3 agents is a lot like what happens at Ace Chemicals in the vigilante route. Joker says it himself, in the carnival something took hold of him, something desperate for survival. When Joker gets cornered by those agents in Episode 5, the same thing happens, he goes on autopilot and kills them, only here his reaction is much less regretful.
I feel like they were aggressive at first (look at how agent Harrison behaves in the vigilante play through) but then John ended up going crazy and taking it too far, even if the other agents were fleeing or not trying to kill him. Nobody is truly in the right in that situation but the fact that you can hear John thinking up excuses to tell Bruce is pretty damning for him.
Yes I believe it was self defense. The agents wanted to shoot John! Except Johns impulsive behaviour took hold and instead of perhaps knocking them out or causing non life threatening injuries... he killed them all
I honestly feel like it at least began as self defense. It's very likely that the agents shot first - their aggressive behavior is demonstrated throughout the season. However, one of the agents is shot in the back. I think that, based on John's behavior in the game, his strong emotional grudges led to him continuing to kill agents even after they stopped shooting and tried to run. I'm pretty sure it no longer counts as self-defense once the offending party has surrendered or run away, but John is incapable of controlling his emotions to know the difference or to know when to stop.
I believe it was self-defence, after seeing how the Agency operates (mostly in the vigilante story) and being John's friend.
When first seeing him around the bodies, I didn't know whether it was on purpose or self-defence, when he explained the story I believed him. It was hard not to trust him when he didn't tell the full story but he was scared about how Bruce would react when seeing the bodies.
It was self-defence. The thing is, he's gone too far while protecting himself. But at least he didn't end up dead. Can't say I felt very sorry about these agents at the first place. Less so after episode 5.
Yeah, they were trigger-happy jerkwads in Episode 5.
Tiefling posted: »It was self-defence. The thing is, he's gone too far while protecting himself. But at least he didn't end up dead. Can't say I felt very sorry about these agents at the first place. Less so after episode 5.
To me self defense loses all justification when the killer starts to enjoy what they've done, and John was clearly amused by the carnage he wrought (he was only freaking out because he knew Bruce would disapprove) and by what he had turned into. I'd say the first few victims were purely self defense but after that he let his thirst for blood completely take over him.
How were the agents shot in the back then?
episode 4 at the carnival. I think John managed to grab hold of a gun and shot the woman before she could use hers
Camperor posted: »How were the agents shot in the back then?
John is not the type to blatantly lie.
But he couldn't rein in his dark impulses even if you tried to stop him going down that path. His code clearly didn't line up with Batmans