Romance in The Final Season

edited April 23 in The Walking Dead

After recent threads on similar topics went pretty downhill I wanted to try to make a thread surrounding the possibility of romance that would encourage more substantial and critical discussion. Here's some questions to start out with:

  • Would you agree that romantic subplots could potentially enhance the narrative of The Final Season? Explain?

  • If you're in favor of Clem finding a new possible love interest in TFS what personality do you feel would make the ideal partner for her?

  • How can the creative team learn from the faults in how they handled romantic subplots in A New Frontier to create more favorable ones in The Final Season?

  • How would you feel about Gabentine being acknowledged in The Final Season?

  • Should the option to make Clem Bi as an alternative be a must in the game if there's going to be heterosexual romance options, just to be fair to all players?(Do not attack other's opinions. Be respectful.)

You can ask you own questions on the subject here if you wish :smile:

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Comments

  • Would you agree that romantic subplots could enhance the narrative of The Final Season if done well?

    Anything can enhance a narrative if done well.

    If you're in favor of Clem finding another love interest in TFS what personality do you feel would make the ideal partner for her?

    I'm personally apathetic about the whole thing, don't care one way or another so long as if they do it they do it well. That said, it's really impossible to say who would be ideal for her right now since we know next to nothing about any of the characters. Also, I'd be hesitant to call it "another" love interest since the thing with Gabe only happens if he dies.

    How can the creative team learn from how the faults in how they handled romantic subplots in A New Frontier to create more favorable ones in The Final Season?

    The Kate Javi thing was forced even if the player, as Javi, did everything they could to stop it. That's bad. You could tell the showdown with David was entirely dependent upon the brothers fighting over Kate so it got forced regardless of what the player wanted. Don't do that.

    How would you feel about Gabentine being acknowledged in The Final Season?

    Since Gabe died in my playthrough and that's the only way the kiss happens I guess it's canon for me but I'd prefer it not be mentioned at all. I hated that emo little prick.

    Is LGBT an essential alternative for Clementine that must be incorporated into the game should romance options be presented at all? (Do not attack other's opinions. Be respectful.)

    Essential? No? But if they're going to add a romance for Clem, they need to go the extra mile and give a male option and a female option and let the player decide who, if either, Clem ends up with and the options need to be handled well, not like Kate/Javi and especially not the Javi/Jesus fiasco. There also needs to be proper dialogue options so the player can not only decline romance, but they want to they can do so in a way that makes clear that Clem isn't just not interested in the options, she's not interested in romance and/or sex at all (asexual/aromantic). Or conversely, options to convey that while she's choosing X, she also really likes Y but she has to choose (bisexual). Trans can be left out completely. There's far too much going in Clem's life and that world for people to be contemplating gender identity.

    .

    .

    Also, I fully expect this thread to be locked.

    1. Yes it could if done right like you said.
    2. Someone soft and not as hard as Clem as a survivor
    3. Don’t force it. Make it a choice to pursue.
    4. I don’t really care to be honest.
    5. No. She was straight in ANF so it’s almost for me like it’s determined.

    My question is I have a theory that there will be a love triangle between the 2 new guys in the final season. You will have a choice to go with one or to not at all. My question is do you think this is a possibility and would you like it?

  • edited April 23

    We don't know the storyline for this season yet but if I had to take a guess they must delay the love storyline to the final episode.Why?because if it starts at the start it's just going to be another gabe situation and no one wants that so if clem had a friend who is as dependent as her and is a tough kid unlike gabe obviously then at the end if written right we may end on a good note for clems journey,Finds AJ,Finds the love of her life and end it with em living happily ever after.DETERMINANLY.

  • Essential? No?

    I read a comment in the thread that was just locked that said if Clem can romance boys in The Final Season then girls must be an option as well to be fair. Wanted to see how many people agreed.

    Also, I fully expect this thread to be locked.

    It's probable yeah. I just thought we should have another chance to discuss this stuff because Clem is at the age where she should be figuring out her preferences so it's very like going to be brought up at some point in the game, so it's not a completely pointless topic.

    @Ya-girl-Clem No. She was straight in ANF so it’s almost for me like it’s determined

    I meant should the player have the option to make Clem Bi or not. I'll edit the OP

    Would you agree that romantic subplots could enhance the narrative of The Final Season if done well? Anything can enhance

  • edited April 24

    Would you agree that romantic subplots could enhance the narrative of The Final Season if done well?

    A romantic element and/or thing on the side? Maybe not, depending on how it's done and/or how much energy is spent on it.
    But in the context of the main story, definitely no.

    If you're in favor of Clem finding another love interest in TFS what personality do you feel would make the ideal partner for her?

    Maybe something that'll chain her up and trap her at the bottom of the ocean. Or more appropriate, catch a virus that causes her body to deteriorate.
    ....
    What I'm trying to say is don't do it. It didn't need to be a thing to begin with.

    How can the creative team learn from how the faults in how they handled romantic subplots in A New Frontier to create more favorable ones in The Final Season?

    Actually spend time developing it and especially both the characters involved?

    How would you feel about Gabentine being acknowledged in The Final Season?

    I wouldn't care for that much at all.

    Is LGBT an essential alternative for Clementine that must be incorporated into the game should romance options be presented at all? (Do not attack other's opinions. Be respectful.)

    Is Clementine an essential alternative for LGBT?

  • No. She was straight in ANF so it’s almost for me like it’s determined.

    She had her first kiss with a boy... that doesn't make her straight. My daughter is 19 and has kissed and slept with boys but she's also really likes girls.

    * Yes it could if done right like you said. * Someone soft and not as hard as Clem as a survivor * Don’t force it. Make it a cho

  • My question is I have a theory that there will be a love triangle between the 2 new guys in the final season. You will have a choice to go with one or to not at all. My question is do you think this is a possibility and would you like it?

    I not really one for love stories and definitely don't put any stock on ANF!Clementine, but you know what, I think there just might be a spark in Ten's eye that may open things up.

    * Yes it could if done right like you said. * Someone soft and not as hard as Clem as a survivor * Don’t force it. Make it a cho

  • Another romance thread for S4?

    Would you agree that romantic subplots could potentially enhance the narrative of The Final Season? Explain?

    Yes, if done well. Romance isn’t always bad in games. It just comes down to the writing team.

    If you're in favor of Clem finding a new possible love interest in TFS what personality do you feel would make the ideal partner for her?

    Someone who she can relate to and trust with her life. Personality wise, I think the person should be a survivalist like Clem and independent. Not Jane level independent, but I’d say around Molly level. Some comedy to his character will be great too, especially in contrast to Clem’s serious character (which could add a few funny moments in the season between the two).

    How can the creative team learn from the faults in how they handled romantic subplots in A New Frontier to create more favorable ones in The Final Season?

    Do. Not. Force. It. And don’t have it be the main narrative in the season like Kate and Javier. It has to be determinant so every one can be happy. No cringeworthy dialogue either.

    How would you feel about Gabentine being acknowledged in The Final Season?

    I wouldn’t mind a optional line of dialogue from Clem, but that’s it. And it should only happen if she kissed him before he died. Gabentine isn’t canon in my playthrough so Clem shouldn’t have feelings for him.

    Should the option to make Clem Bi as an alternative be a must in the game if there's going to be heterosexual romance options, just to be fair to all players?(Do not attack other's opinions. Be respectful.)

    It’s not a MUST. I wouldn’t complain, I actually think it’ll be interesting if they go that route. But if it’s optional, then it should be the longest to build up. Like if anything were to happen with her and Violet then have a majority of one or two episodes be focused solely on them and their chemistry. It worked with The Last Of Us between Ellie and Riley. Just don’t have every teenager she comes across be a romance option. At that point it will actually become a dating sim.

  • No there should not be any romance. For one the game does not need one at all. There is no place for it, it will stick out badly.

    More importantly is there wont be any "multiple romance options" if there even is a romance, and if there is a romance it will feel incredibly forced just like every other Telltale game. A lot of people point out that "catwoman romance was done right" but it still isnt done well in all honesty. In the Batman games, Catwoman is the only real romance option. However, notice how up to episode 3 there is a heavy "hand holding" bringing you towards a Catwoman romance, if you want it or not. This goes up until episode 3 when you make that one final true romance choice, and right after that what happens? Catwoman becomes incredibly irrelevant to the story. When Season 2 came around Catwoman was pretty underused again, and only had episode 3 to shine, and even in that episode the game again hand holds you into romancing her even if you didnt in season 1.

    So if The Final Season has a romance option, it will 100% be hand hold-y and forced as hell. Its been like this in every Telltale game with a romance, its obvious Telltale tries to force you into the romance they picked. And its not like they could do what they did in Batman in the Walking Dead. Its a way different universe where they are all pretty group orientated. What would happen for that romanced character to become irrelevant? They just disappear. whoa great writing If anything it will be like the Rhys x Sasha romance where if you say no, the game still just acts like you are romancing Sasha until the very last seconds of the game.

    Telltale cant even handle one romance, so there will not be more than one if anything. And when there is one its always forced. So I would really prefer if Telltale just does the smart thing and write a good story instead of making it a teenage dating simulator, but you cant even choose who you want to date.

  • I think that more subtle hits can sometimes be more powerful than full out romances. Such as Carley in episode 3, Bigby and Snow in TWAU, and Rhys and Sasha in TFTB.

  • edited April 23

    They just closed the bisexual thread now this shows up...
    Lets change the subject here is Samuel L Jackson modded into the walking dead:

    I'd be happy enough with romance options but there ain't much to discuss about it atm.

  • Rhys and Fiona in TFTB.

    Fixed that for you.

    Veeeee posted: »

    I think that more subtle hits can sometimes be more powerful than full out romances. Such as Carley in episode 3, Bigby and Snow in TWAU, and Rhys and Sasha in TFTB.

  • edited April 23

    You're probably right i forgot about Selina,they also did that with Sasha in TFTB it's so forced so the best thing is to not have a romance at all sadly.

    Poogers555 posted: »

    No there should not be any romance. For one the game does not need one at all. There is no place for it, it will stick out badly.

  • Too bad Fiona views him as an imbecile and a bro at most.

    iFoRias posted: »

    Rhys and Fiona in TFTB. Fixed that for you.

  • You got some issues bro.

    As far as romantic bullshit goes, why? We went through the first two seasons without anything happening, why emphasize it now? I know all the kids they're appealing to would probably love some twilight shit. Not me, focus the story on an older audience and bring back at least some of what made the first season special.

    As far as Gabe goes, he can kiss the fattest part of my ass. I killed him, because I couldn't trust him not to miss. He was one of the useless characters in a game full of questionable ones.

    DabigRG posted: »

    Would you agree that romantic subplots could enhance the narrative of The Final Season if done well? A romantic element an

  • Relevance?

    You got some issues bro. As far as romantic bullshit goes, why? We went through the first two seasons without anything happenin

  • edited April 24

    Romance in The Final Season


    ...

  • edited April 24

    I’ll keep it short. Would I be okay with a romance in season 4? Yes. But let us choose who we want as individual players. I don’t know...I’m 35 years old and I’ve always liked romances in games.

  • edited April 24

    I think a romance would be really good for the story as long as it doesn't consume the story; and the end choice in s4 is not about it. I think the perfect companion for Clem would be someone she can trust.

  • It doesn't need it, but I've always liked romance as a subgenre. There's nothing wrong with it, but Telltale, no matter the writer, has never really written it well, except maybe the romances in TWAU

    Lee and Carley. Sunk for shock value.

    Rhys and Sasha. Pushed in our face. I liked it but I preferred Fiona. Which is why I got the "Interested in someone else" option.

    Bruce and Selina. The totally unexpected romance option ever in gaming history. Forgive my sarcasm.

    Clem and Gabe. They tried it. I didn't mind it. I brought them together in mine cause kids will be kids. Put Clem on whatever pedestal you want. But in reality she's not a goddess too good for Gabe. She's a girl forced to be something more with a boy who couldn't quite grasp things like she could. And part of that is due to Javi and Kate preventing him and Mari from carrying their weight like Clem was forced to in S2.

    Javi and Kate. They tried it. I was more interested in Eleanor. So I tried it. Turns out they completely abandoned it and then went brain neutral in Ep 4 with her last minute snitching. I stayed away from Kate the entire game, yet HER feelings got me in a fight with David and she had the nerve to say "David Stop!!" Like she didn't cause this. The same person who wanted to leave New Richmond and targets me when I agree with David that we should go. Let alone cuck David in his face with a kiss if you side with Kate then act surprised when he wants to kick my ass. Telltales worst romance.

    Bigby and Snow was the established romance we were met with and were forced to follow. But I always preferred Nerissa but I don't think that's going anywhere.

    So yeah, I love romance as a subgenre but none of Telltales stories have proven to handle it well and more times than not we're forced to the ship that they like instead of the one we prefer. So I would like it in TFS, but if it's just more of the same, don't do it.

  • Put Clem on whatever pedestal you want. But in reality she's not a goddess too good for Gabe.

    As much as I like to rag on it from the somewhat inverted/unpopular side of the topic, my [other] real issue with the idea in general has to do with the inherently wasteful series-conscience setup the "ship" would canonically never be able to compete with.

    And part of that is due to Javi and Kate preventing him and Mari from carrying their weight like Clem was forced to in S2.

    True.
    Though I was always under the impression that at least he was more of a halfway situation, especially compared to most other kids/youths.

    HER feelings got me in a fight with David and she had the nerve to say "David Stop!!" Like she didn't cause this.

    Not sure what that has to do with it. If anything, it'd be an issue if she didn't try to get him to stop.

    Sarunas21 posted: »

    It doesn't need it, but I've always liked romance as a subgenre. There's nothing wrong with it, but Telltale, no matter the writer

  • Not sure what that has to do with it. If anything, it'd be an issue if she didn't try to get him to stop.

    I consider it a "reap what you sow" situation in both scenarios.

    It wasn't because I didn't expect her to get them to stop. More so it was because she felt so powerful at that moment that nothing else mattered other than putting David in his place with the power move of the century for making a perfectly reasonable decision to protect his family and escape rather than Kate's heroic mission to fix what she broke. Something that a militia couldn't fix, let alone what she think she could accomplish with 3 adults and two kids. A reasonable decision by David, that did not, by any means, need to force that sort of reaction by Kate.

    Kate saying stop in that situation is like me punching a muscle head and expecting not to get hit back. What did she think would happen? Knowing the type of man David is, is what I'm saying.

    DabigRG posted: »

    Put Clem on whatever pedestal you want. But in reality she's not a goddess too good for Gabe. As much as I like to rag on

  • Eh, pretty bad timing, not really thinking at the moment, and/or the guy kinda had it coming.

    Sarunas21 posted: »

    Not sure what that has to do with it. If anything, it'd be an issue if she didn't try to get him to stop. I consider it a

  • Would you agree that romantic subplots could potentially enhance the narrative of The Final Season? Explain?

    Yes. This being the final season, I'm guessing it should be Clem's choice what her ZA endgame is, whether it be romance-related or not. But not if it's written as poorly as most if not all of Telltale's previous romances.

    If you're in favor of Clem finding a new possible love interest in TFS what personality do you feel would make the ideal partner for her?

    Someone who's nice, regardless of whether or not they can take care of themselves, if she ends up more compassionate. Otherwise, someone who will help her survive best if she ends up survivalist. I'd like more nuance than just these two, but I can't think of anything else right now.

    How can the creative team learn from the faults in how they handled romantic subplots in A New Frontier to create more favorable ones in The Final Season?

    Essentially repeating what others have said above: don't force it.

    How would you feel about Gabentine being acknowledged in The Final Season?

    I'd only be okay with it if it actually happened in affected persons' playthroughs. Why should it ever come up for players who steer away from it?

    Should the option to make Clem Bi as an alternative be a must in the game if there's going to be heterosexual romance options, just to be fair to all players?(Do not attack other's opinions. Be respectful.)

    Yes and no. If there's any straight-appearing romance, a positively portrayed (and prominent) LGBT character or romance seems a necessity, but Clementine doesn't need to be under that umbrella. While it's true that romance is not Telltale's forte, their straight characters are never obscured in comparison.

    I too think this thread'll be shut down based on recent posts and how much gusto there seemed to be in closing the last one from the looks of it, but I do prefer how this thread began, and I commend your inclusivity and, like, info-seeking...? You have good questions, basically.

  • Are there any examples of determinant shipping across all of Telltale's games that you found to be remarkably effective? What could Telltale learn from how these optional relationships took player choice into account? (Please use a spoiler tag (put ">!" before each spoiler line))

  • All ships in Telltale games have been really forced, the only game that made an attempt was Tales from the Borderlands

    Spoilers below:

    Tales still suffered a major problem though, almost the whole game it forces you to be with Sasha until the very end where you can either say you have no interest in her, or are interested in "someone else" which is implied to be Fiona. To this day its the only Telltale game to have multiple romance options, even if the second one isnt confirmed until the final moments of the game

    Cocoa2736 posted: »

    Are there any examples of determinant shipping across all of Telltale's games that you found to be remarkably effective? What coul

  • In your opinion, how high of a priority is it for Clem to find a significant other before her story concludes?

  • edited April 24

    It's not necessary at all she's only a teenager. There wasn't much romance in the first two seasons and they turned out pretty good.

    Cocoa2736 posted: »

    In your opinion, how high of a priority is it for Clem to find a significant other before her story concludes?

  • Are there any examples of determinant shipping across all of Telltale's games that you found to be remarkably effective? What could Telltale learn from how these optional relationships took player choice into account? (Please use a spoiler tag (put ">!" before each spoiler line))

    It kinda feels like Bruce can develop one with John in Enemy Within, so I guess maybe that?

    In your opinion, how high of a priority is it for Clem to find a significant other before her story concludes?

    Not high. I would love it if she could just have a friend or two to count on.

  • Lower than low.

    Cocoa2736 posted: »

    In your opinion, how high of a priority is it for Clem to find a significant other before her story concludes?

  • Please use a spoiler tag (put ">!" before each spoiler line))

    Thank you for including this.

    Cocoa2736 posted: »

    Are there any examples of determinant shipping across all of Telltale's games that you found to be remarkably effective? What coul

  • I'd be for romance(s), I mean as much as I want a cool survival story it won't mean much if ALL they do is avoid death and struggle. I'd like if they could at least take some time to try and live life, at least as much as they can. And I don't really see why people would be against it, I just don't see much of a grand difference between having your character make friends and having your character develop feels for someone.

  • edited April 24

    And I don't really see why people would be against it

    I'm pretty sure it's a combination of things:

    • Clementine being some people's "daughter"
    • The romantic/shipping fluff in A New Frontier
    • Wanting to focus on the characters being individuals
    • Just wanting to have an enjoyable/good survival story
    • No interest in playing a bizarre teen romance series
    • Uncomfortability
    • Just not caring for romance in general

    I'd be for romance(s), I mean as much as I want a cool survival story it won't mean much if ALL they do is avoid death and struggl

  • I just hope if they do add something like this that they don't handle it like ANF and tie it into any other parts of the story even in the event you say no. Everyone would appreciate a proper Nope dialogue option I imagine.

    DabigRG posted: »

    And I don't really see why people would be against it I'm pretty sure it's a combination of things: * Clementine bein

  • Kool my dude. Thanks

    DabigRG posted: »

    My question is I have a theory that there will be a love triangle between the 2 new guys in the final season. You will have a choi

  • I knew I said something to that effect somewhere. :lol:
    Either way, youur genial reply tickles me.

    Kool my dude. Thanks

  • Do you trust that the creative team behind The Final Season would be able to pull off optional love interests well if they tried to include them in the game?

  • edited April 24

    Much of that team also worked on Batman Season 2 so overall I am cautiously optomistic about the game but I'm not too sure about a potential romance aspect of it. I personally find surrogate families and frienships more touching in these types of games as opposed to romance stories.

    Cocoa2736 posted: »

    Do you trust that the creative team behind The Final Season would be able to pull off optional love interests well if they tried to include them in the game?

  • What is it with people and romance/sexuality obession of TWD recently.

  • Please no romance in The Final Season, we got a full Season of relationships/romances in A New Frontier and look how that turned out like :D

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