Did you ever think about breaking Batman's code for...? *Spoilers*

I don't know if it's actually possible to let John die in Same Stitch, but did you ever consider breaking Batman's code at any point if and when you believed John was too far gone in Episode 5? Especially on the villain path?

Comments

  • edited April 2018

    Not so much in the Villain Path. If given the choice I certainly would have broken his code in the Vigilante Route. Hypothetically, If given the options I would have done the following:

    • Agreeing to Jokers Idea of using the Virus to kill Waller
    • Letting the bombs go off at the GCPD roof top when joker uses them while both of you are cornered
    • Letting Joker Carve up Waller at Ace Chemicals
    • Beating Harley Quinn to a pulp outside Riddlers Hideout.
      -Allowing joker to keep stabbing Bane without you interfering
  • I would have loved an option for it in the Villian path.

  • This.
    I like.

    speedkicks posted: »

    Not so much in the Villain Path. If given the choice I certainly would have broken his code in the Vigilante Route. Hypothetically

  • Nah, not really. If Batman would kill he wouldnt be any better than the villains he is trying to catch. The police wouldnt wanna work with him and people would be rather scared than supporting him. He's a symbol for hope and justice in a city full of criminals, with citizens who are scared to go outside and a police force that cant handle everything on their own facing threats such as these.

    Honestly, i didnt even care that much about Joker's actions in the Villain path. Only part where i got kinda mad is when Joker shoots Jim in both legs. That wasnt nice at all.

  • Villian Joker should have done something more personal. Killing Alfred? Then an option to kill him would be...
    interesting

  • Nope, never considered this option with John. Or anyone.
    The only person I really wanted out of the picture forever, from Batman point of view, was Waller. But I never thought about killing her, only putting her behind the bars.

  • Not at all.

  • No, Batman has to be better then those he fights.

  • yes

    Tiefling posted: »

    Nope, never considered this option with John. Or anyone. The only person I really wanted out of the picture forever, from Batman point of view, was Waller. But I never thought about killing her, only putting her behind the bars.

  • edited April 2018

    Batman is part of the problem and even his butler goes full meta about it. His moral code causes GCPD more problems than it helps. Not to mention he keeps blaming Waller while protecting criminals from legal authorities so he can catch them his way.

    Other-hand Batman might be justified even if he comes across as naive sometimes. While what Waller does is legal due her authority, that doesn't mean her methods are justified. Government should just hire Batman or give him the legal authority to do his job.

    However this stuff reflects badly to GCPD's competence and funding. If they just had proper equipment, manpower and training, Gotham wouldn't need Batman to compensate. Ironically since Batman helps, GCPD probably has hard time to make a case why they should have more government support.

    So yeah, the Joker belongs to actually secure facility that is not escaped by simply opening the door (Arkham Asylum has abysmal security.) Still, Batman shouldn't keep saving him.

  • Yes. I could sympathize with Joker in the vigilante route (my original playthrough), because Waller was a piece of trash. She tried to kill him in ep4, had her agents try to kill Batman and Joker's buddies in ep5, etc. In a sense, Joker and Waller are somewhat alike, but they're also very different. They're willing to kill for justice, but Waller isn't ashamed of that fact, whereas Joker's trying and is all kinds of messed up. Waller knows what she's doing, but Joker isn't stable, so essentially, he gets a free pass here... sort of. I wouldn't have cared if Waller died, but I would have cared if Joker died. Not to mention she f**king pushed him into the chemicals, which thankfully Batman caught him. Like I know he was hostile, but still. Self defense? Sure, I guess... since Batman had trouble standing, and Joker did just attack Tiffany, but at that moment, I doubt he would have attacked Batman. I would never have forgiven Waller if Joker had actually fallen in.

    It's the same with the whole Tiffany and Riddler thing. Revenge is a very human thing, and I can understand why she did it, but Batman thinks very differently to me. What about the GCPD? They shoot to kill, and yet they're good guys, but no one bats an eye at them. No wonder Joker was confused about what's right and wrong. Even Tiffany took a life, and she's good. The only real difference here is that Joker is mentally ill, but he does have good in him.

  • Pretty much.
    Even Gordon kills yet that's not a problem. Batman's logic is not sense making

    Bandicoot88 posted: »

    Yes. I could sympathize with Joker in the vigilante route (my original playthrough), because Waller was a piece of trash. She trie

  • Yeah I wish they would have given me an option to agree with him and kill Waller. Sigh

    speedkicks posted: »

    Not so much in the Villain Path. If given the choice I certainly would have broken his code in the Vigilante Route. Hypothetically

  • I wish they would let Batman be evil if you want him to be

  • It would've been interesting to see TellTale entertain the notion of allowing the player the choice. Batman hasn't always had a no-kill rule in the earlier days of his creation. He also as late as Batman V. Superman not possessed the no-kill rule.

  • No, it makes perfect sense. Gordon is a cop and has some legitimacy to kill people in certain scenarios. Shooting Harvey´s men when they are attacking the GCPD in a life or death scenario, for example, is far more easy to understand that killing someone in cold blood like John wanted to do, or like Tiffany did with Riddler, just because they wanted to do it for their own selfish and unneccesary reasons.

    Dan10 posted: »

    Pretty much. Even Gordon kills yet that's not a problem. Batman's logic is not sense making

  • Waller attempted to kill John many times and was under threat. Just because he dropped some bombs after he was shot and cornered doesn't mean he should be a villian.

    DOBLEDEDO posted: »

    No, it makes perfect sense. Gordon is a cop and has some legitimacy to kill people in certain scenarios. Shooting Harvey´s men whe

  • It definitely would be interesting to try. Maybe it should be an end game choice in season 3? Batman choosing to not kill isn't about protecting lives it's about protecting himself. In multiple Batman stories he says that the reason he doesn't kill is that it would be too easy and that he'd find more and more excuses to do it.

  • Well in episode 1, Batman was given the choice to bluff the information out of Eli or beat it out of him. If they allowed that we should have been given the choice or letting Joker use lethal force

    Dan10 posted: »

    This. I like.

  • The Batman code owes it self solely because the original comics were targeted at kids. But when Batman universe got a lot darker with The Dark Knight movies, more adult later comics, Telltale games e.t.c., the code just kinda sticked along, and I think it's a nuisanse.

    When a villain straight out kills many innocent peoples, including women and children, it's much more logical and efficient to eliminate the said villain, not put him in jail until he eventually breaks out and kill again.

    Also, I want Batman to be more like Sam Ficsher or Solid Snake - a super high-tech covert ninja stealth operative who won't hesitate to cut a throat or break a neck of some one who deserves it, not being a pussy he is now.

  • edited May 2018

    You're barking up the wrong tree if you want Batman to be a killer. You'd be changing the entire character completely.

    AnKun posted: »

    The Batman code owes it self solely because the original comics were targeted at kids. But when Batman universe got a lot darker w

  • So you basically want Batman to be a completely different character. That's what you are talking about, specially with your last paragraph.

    Batman's code isn't a nuisance, it's a character trait that makes him more interesting and has given us some of his best stories. Just because you don't agree with his no kill rule, doesn't mean it's bad for the character.

    Besides, people tend to forget the code also exists in orden to prevent Batman from becoming a monster. He has to put a line because he knows how fucked up he really is on the inside.

    Making him just a regular murderer not only betrays the entire character, it would also make it very hard for both the audience and the other characters to sympathize with him. I certainly don't imagine people like Alfred and Gordon going along with that.

    AnKun posted: »

    The Batman code owes it self solely because the original comics were targeted at kids. But when Batman universe got a lot darker w

  • John trying to defend himself isn't a bad thing. Kidnapping Waller and trying to execute her in a brutal way while being recorded, and acting as both jury and executioner, on the other hand...

    That can't be defended. It's not like John would have killed her during a fight. He had no excuse to do that, even if he had a personal reason to hate her.

    Dan10 posted: »

    Waller attempted to kill John many times and was under threat. Just because he dropped some bombs after he was shot and cornered doesn't mean he should be a villian.

  • edited May 2018

    Well, Otacon got pretty well along with Snake, who was a murderer. And the audience loves Snake.
    So yeah, I pretty much want Batman to be a completely different character. I want whole Batman universe rebooted.

    But that's just my opinion, I'm not saying the current Batman is bad.

    DOBLEDEDO posted: »

    So you basically want Batman to be a completely different character. That's what you are talking about, specially with your last p

  • I probably would have killed Riddler if given the chance. When my Bruce said he would make him suffer, I meant it.

  • Except the whole reason Batman is there is to arrest John because of self-defence.
    Why wouldn't he kidnap Waller after she tried to kill him and if he didn't he'd probably die when he was tracked down or at the very least put back into Arkham or even turned into a slave like Bane.

    DOBLEDEDO posted: »

    John trying to defend himself isn't a bad thing. Kidnapping Waller and trying to execute her in a brutal way while being recorded,

  • I agree that I would've liked the option to play with more brutality in either path, align more with Joker on the vigilante path, and have an option to break the code on either path. I don't think this would essentially make Batman/Bruce Wayne a different character. He has in both comics and movies been shown to do these things from different writers in the past and recent times.

    What interests me isn't even the violence behind it, but the psychology. There was certainly opportunity in the journey from Season 1 in discovering the truth behind Thomas Wayne, Lucius' death, and Alfred's mental breakdown to lead the players down the path of a man having his own breakdown.

    The choice in my opinion wouldn't be about fundamentally changing Batman ( as I said, this has been done ), or Bruce Wayne becoming some psychotic killer. It was much more difficult for me to stomach making a deal with Waller and not even touching the Agency. I'm really hoping that Season 3 gives us an opportunity to see that eat at our conscience, and dive more into the psychological effects of all of these events on Bruce.

    speedkicks posted: »

    Not so much in the Villain Path. If given the choice I certainly would have broken his code in the Vigilante Route. Hypothetically

  • As Bruce said to Tiffany in episode 4:

    Bruce: Never, it would violate my code.
    Tiffany: So, Batman has a code.
    Bruce: Without it. I would become the very thing I hate.

    I know that scene was relating to his rule about guns, but it works in the same context.

  • I think we need an even more darker season for this to happen. A villian preferably Joker should pretty much destroy Bruce psychologically. Kill Alfred or burn down Jim's stache so we have a strong motivation to kill him.

  • burn down Jim's stache

    Alright mate taking it a bit too far now.... lets leave the 'stache out of this ok?

    Dan10 posted: »

    I think we need an even more darker season for this to happen. A villian preferably Joker should pretty much destroy Bruce psychologically. Kill Alfred or burn down Jim's stache so we have a strong motivation to kill him.

  • Very true. The stache is vastly crucial to the plot and connects it together with its hairs. Don't want to think of how useless,disjointed and terrible the season would be without it. I apologize.

    burn down Jim's stache Alright mate taking it a bit too far now.... lets leave the 'stache out of this ok?

  • I would have demanded that Jimbo shaves off that Mustache. It is not a symbol of justuce

  • I used all four of the save files you get with each telltale game and I re-name them as follows.

    Save File 1 - Good (in this case) Batman
    Save File 2 - Bad (in this case) Batman
    Save File 3 - Good And Bad (in this case) Batman
    Save File 4 - 50/50 (in this case) Batman

    Now my Good Batman is 100% good and my Good and Bad Batman is more Good than Bad so neither of them would have killed no matter how tempting it might have been their code means too much to them.

    Bad Batman and 50/50 Batman however they would have been willing to kill Falcone while he was laying helpless in his hospital bed instead of just hurting him. Harvey after he destroyed that city block instead of just punching him or threatening him as Bruce. Penguin instead of hurting him or breaking his leg. Lady Arkham instead of just attacking her. Riddler (if Tiffany hadn't done it first) Eli when they interrogated him and Joker.

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