Am i the only one who uses walkthroughs for this game?

edited October 2010 in Sam & Max
I have played all three seasons of sam and max and i didn't finish one, not even one episode without using the walkthrough at least once (okay, three or four times)

I am the only one?
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Comments

  • edited August 2010
    I needed a walkthrough for 302. Don't feel bad, what's easy for someone may be hard for another.
  • edited August 2010
    I did that with old school adventure games. Didn't even understand what you were supposed to be doing at the beginning of the first Sam & Max (Not Telltale's Sam & Max)

    Whether it's because newer adventure games have gotten easier, or, god forbid, I've gotten smarter is... well... beside the point. Though I have been known, in the earlier seasons, to dabble into the Hint System once or twice.

    Season 3 I didn't have to though. Mostly because Future Vision was a Hint in itself. In all reality I think it's just better puzzle design. Not too obscure, but not obvious. Telltale has hit a fine median with all of their series.
  • edited August 2010
    I always get stumped at least 3 times per game. Right now I'm trying to figure out if the record that makes Max shake has anything to do with knocking the roach farm off the shelf.
  • edited August 2010
    The older games I've had to look up stuff sometimes because older games tend to the "make it as nonsensical as possible" logic so that its more "fun" and not easily solved.

    Season 3 (and other newer games of this genre) have grown up and tend to a more logical puzzle form which is nice and makes the puzzles that much easier if you are a logically minded person; but also more fun because you're not left thinking why the heck did I need x to do y?
  • edited August 2010
    I've never used a walkthrough, but then I'm an old school adventure gamer and the logic here isn't nearly as crazy as some other games (Have I ever seen held than 5 items at a time in S&M?). Plus they have huge hint signs practically shoving the answer in your face sometimes. What really annoys me sometimes is when the hints are pointing in a certain direction, and it's obvious what I need to do, but none of the hints will point to how I do it and it takes a while and some experimenting before I can figure it out.
  • edited August 2010
    I've needed walkthroughs for a lot of games except 305.

    Because there wasnt one.
  • edited August 2010
    None of the Devil's Playhouse episodes required me to use walkthroughs, or even hints, except for the final puzzle in 305
    as it wasn't pretty obvious how to make Max cry.

    I remember using one for 201 and 203 though. I don't honor those moments.
  • edited August 2010
    I was clueless about
    how to get the arms working. I got that I had to use Sal and that he was on the roof of Boscotech Labs but I didn't know how to get him on board...
  • edited August 2010
    Well... Sam & Max is the first game where I never cheated or use Hints! (during the three seasons) I remember being stuck on the 202, but that's all. I've cheated for the three Runaway games though. All game long. And for the first chapter of Monkey Island 1. And I'm stuck on S&M:HtR but I'm trying to do it without any hints. That's because the puzzles on TellTale's Sam & Max are way more logical than in the other adventure games, even if the Sam & Max Universe is ruled by nonsense.
  • edited August 2010
    I was stuck a few times in Seasons 1 and 2, but never in Season 3. I thought everything seemed to be more logical in TDP so I never really got stuck.
  • edited August 2010
    I've resorted to walkthroughs multiple times in each season, I'd say season three was the hardest for me.
  • edited August 2010
    I suck at adventure games and have to resort to walkthroughs all the time, including the Sam and Max 1 and 2 seasons, Wallace and Gromnit.

    Although it seems TTG gets easier, with only 1 use in ToMI, and none at all for Sam and Max season 3...
  • edited August 2010
    I don't want to sound arrogant or something, but I think Telltale's games are quite easy. I've never had to use a walkthrough and always switch off the hint function. And I also rarely get stuck for a long time, except for how to get Lincoln's brain in 203 (which is actually one of my favourite puzzles) and how to get the 300 trillion dollars in 106 (which I still think is quite ridiculous). After talking to everybody, looking at everything and trying the obvious, a solution usually presents itself. Sometimes I even have to stop myself from doing the right thing, because I want to know what happens if I do it wrong.

    I've played a lot of adventure games so far, and some of them were far more difficult. For example, I think I had to use a walkthrough for each of the old Lucas Arts adventures at least once, which again can be quite frustrating.

    So I know it's a thin line between too easy and too hard, but I'm still wishing for Telltale to put out a really challenging game. Maybe they could do it like in MI 2 and 3, where you could set the difficulty level at the beginning.

    Although I've been a little disappointed by the puzzles, I'm still a big fan of Telltale Games though, because of the great storytelling, humour, voice acting, etc.
  • edited August 2010
    So I know it's a thin line between too easy and too hard, but I'm still wishing for Telltale to put out a really challenging game. Maybe they could do it like in MI 2 and 3, where you could set the difficulty level at the beginning.

    Yeah, but there's hard and hard. The Monkey Island "hard" is not the same that Runaway or Hit the Road "hard"... I mean, some people can't just try to figure out the way of resolving the puzzle during days.
  • edited August 2010
    I've only played the first Runaway and thought the puzzles were really good, although the difficulty dropped quite heavily in the final chapters. Hit the Road was really unsolvable for me (as also the first Discworld I). But since Telltale have already established a hint function, they could include some harder puzzles and just drop heavy hints for those who don't want to ponder over a puzzle for some time.
  • edited August 2010
    But since Telltale have already established a hint function, they could include some harder puzzles and just drop heavy hints for those who don't want to ponder over a puzzle for some time.

    Yeah, you have a point here.
  • edited August 2010
    I think DoTT must be the hardest LA adventure.
    Not only do they got illogical puzzles, but across timezones.

    Game was great though, but I probably used a walkthrough 50 times...
  • edited September 2010
    I either use half hints from the start and never get stuck or no hints and get stck on one easy or slightly random puzzle.
  • edited September 2010
    S3 should probably not require a walkthrough. S1 and S2 is udnerstandable at times. I remember there were some weird spots.

    Old adventure games...like walkthrough is mandatory unless you wnat to be stuck for days. I don't play games like that :9.
  • Options
    edited September 2010
    i do that
  • edited September 2010
    I needed no walkthrough for Season 3 - although one puzzle in 305 took me ages to figure out, and I felt kinda dumb afterwards...
  • edited September 2010
    I didn't get stuck once in 305, though that may be because I played it in 3 short bursts over 3 days
  • edited September 2010
    I used the walkthrough for help at least once a game in season one, about four times in season 2 (with the exception of 202, I used it for most of that game
    and the damm 'paint it red like the one from the begining' puzzle at the end wounded my soul
    ), and only needed it once in the entire third season,
    I didn't know how to get Ho-teps' picture.
    I always thought it was a mix of me getting better, Sam and Max season one was my return to click+point adventure after a looonngg hiatus, and the games becoming, not easier exactly but more logical.

    I agree about the hint system being annoying because I always know what has to be done, I just don't know how to do it because I overlook an object or a really strange way of doing something. The hint system just tells you what you have to do rather than giving the player clues on how to do it.
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited September 2010
    I've played every single S&M episode and have used walktroughs/ hint system, I think, three times so far. The individual feeling of how difficult these games are is largely chance. You either get stuck or you don't, mostly because of one of these reasons:

    a) You did not find a certain hotspot/ collectable item/ exit into other area.
    b) You actually did not try something you were definitly sure you already did.
    c) You have to finish some conversation before you can actually proceed with the game.


    It can, and will, happen to everyone. :D
  • edited September 2010
    You either get stuck or you don't, mostly because of one of these reasons:

    'B' has happened to me a lot X(, but another reason, at least, it's a huge issue for me, is not knowing that the game alows me to do something/move somewhere.
    Ex:
    In 304 in the final scene with Charlie, I didn't know Max could look down, which is needed to see Sam and then solve the puzzle. Also, in 305 for a while I didn't know you could move while waving the corn dog which is a big part of the puzzle.
  • edited September 2010
    I think DoTT must be the hardest LA adventure.
    Not only do they got illogical puzzles, but across timezones.

    Game was great though, but I probably used a walkthrough 50 times...

    I agree. I started playing that game before drugs were available to me. It was waay too hard but I played it recently and it was piss easy except the last bit in the future.
  • edited September 2010
    I admit I use walkthroughs quite a bit when I play adventure games because I'm usually playing the games to experience the story (unless it's a game like Puzzle Agent or Professor Layton, where the puzzles ARE the game...I don't use a walkthrough for those). I give every puzzle a good shot and do my best to exhaust all my options but if it's gotten to a point where I'm completely stuck on something and the story isn't moving forward anymore, I'll pull up a walkthrough just to get me past that point.

    I did find myself using walkthroughs a lot less in Season 3, though. I don't think it's a case of the games getting easier, and unfortunately I don't think it's a case of me getting smarter either. I think the difference is that Telltale has done a good job of narrowing the space of disconnect between the player and the game. In previous games it was sometimes difficult to get into the heads of the characters and immerse yourself in the unique logic of the game's world. In Season 3, with its new features, powers and storytelling techniques, it was a lot easier to get into the characters' heads (literally in many cases).
  • edited September 2010
    105 and 202 are the ones where I got stuck. And 203 in Jurgens night club when I couldn't figure out how to open that second secret passage. Other than that if I felt stuck I'd turn on the hint system for a minute to see if I missed something. I needed the hint system badly for the tomb of sammun-mak though.
    I avoid Walkthroughs as much as possible because they can ruin the story for me and I love surprises.
  • edited September 2010
    Used a walkthrough for all episodes of season 1 and 2, for Season 3 I used walkthroughs for 301, 302 (well, not all of it anyway), and 305.
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited September 2010
    Mooshiiii wrote: »
    'B' has happened to me a lot X(, but another reason, at least, it's a huge issue for me, is not knowing that the game alows me to do something/move somewhere.

    That counts as 'A'. :D
  • edited September 2010
    :) Reading through this thread makes me feel good. I'm not the only one who needs walkthroughs at times. I'm not as stupid as I originally thought! *Breathes sigh of relief*
  • edited September 2010
    I sometimes turn on the hints if I'm really, REALLY stumped. I try to avoid them tho because the point is to figure it out yourself. But no more than twice per game, overall.
  • edited September 2010
    I did not need hints or walkthrough anywhere in Season 3. Season 2 there were a few times when I was stuck and I just turned on the hint system to full blast, walked around until I heard the hint, and then turned it back off. Have those of you who need walkthroughs ever tried that method?

    I also suspect many folks who look at walkthroughs would have eventually figured out how to get unstuck if they weren't so anxious to finish the story. I mean, there are people asking for hints in the hint forum within hours of the game release time. If story is your real interest in the game, then you shouldn't feel any guilt about using a walkthrough or think of it as cheating -- you paid for the game, it's totally up to you to decide how best to enjoy it. (I occasionally play an old-school-style, light-on-story first-person shooter. I have great fun with it but get bored with the same-ness 3/4s of the way through. So I put it on god-mode and finish the game. I don't feel the slightest bit guilty about it.)

    I agree with this and wish Telltale would consider it:
    But since Telltale have already established a hint function, they could include some harder puzzles and just drop heavy hints for those who don't want to ponder over a puzzle for some time.

    because the puzzles in 305 were a serious let-down.
    I think DoTT must be the hardest LA adventure.
    Not only do they got illogical puzzles, but across timezones.

    Game was great though, but I probably used a walkthrough 50 times...

    Yeah, me too. I think most of the puzzles were logical, they just required multiple steps in the chain of reasoning that they were difficult to foresee. You couldn't even thrash or guess your way through because there were so many inventory items, multiple verbs, and so many points of interaction. That's complexity, and while I don't necessarily want to go back to that extreme, it was this lack of complexity that made Season 3 so easy and less satisfying than playing a DOTT-like game with an occasional glance at a walkthrough.
  • edited September 2010
    I do want to go back to that extreme. DoTT was ace. I think it took me 3 months to solve... Or maybe 3 weeks. But whatever, it is a far cry from 5x3 hours.

    I phoned the helpline for MI2 (I think it was getting the map pieces- I definitely couldn't solve the "monkey wrench" puzzle possibly not helped by being about 12 and not knowing the names of tools). I used a walkthrough for Broken Sword (or maybe BS2) when I failed to spot a pixel I could interact with... In general, it's always not spotting objects I can interact with that stall me.

    Maybe had I not started playing these games pre-Internet, I wouldn't know how to solve the games without walk-throughs...? I really feel that it is a shame that people use walk-throughs. They are not necessary in these recent games and in relying on them, you are never developing the confidence to solve them on your own. I refuse to believe that people that use them are more stupid than those that don't- I believe that they are just more impatient and need to calm themselves down and learn how to approach the game anew. Or else they will never learn the skills these games can impart.
  • edited September 2010
    I do want to go back to that extreme.

    :D

    There was a reason I said
    I don't necessarily want to go back to that extreme. (emphasis added)

    Sure, I'd love to play a DOTT-like game again, too. I just don't think it's realistic to ask that of Telltale. I think we have to understand that our opinions on difficulty are not in the majority here, and that they would lose sales if they did that. I don't think they'd lose any sales, and could improve overall customer satisfaction, if they just brought the level of difficulty back to what it was in Season 2 or TOMI, at a minimum. That would be fine with me. For real challenging adventures, we'll have to look elsewhere, to smaller companies that aren't trying to be so mass-market. (I think the forthcoming JP and BTTF games, which are going to attract interest in a much broader segment of the gaming community than S&M, will tell us a lot about where TT is going. But expanding on that would take the thread even further off-topic, so I'll refrain. :) )
  • edited September 2010
    I try to avoid using walkthroughs, because I always get the feeling that the game has beat me when I do. And when I've used one once, I'm much more tempted to use it a second time, because it doesn't matter anymore anyway. Usually I'm patient enough to take my time until i've solved the puzzles or at least tried to for some time, even when I'm anxious to know how the story continues. The only exception here is LA's Grim Fandango, where I've played the entire third act using a walkthrough, because the story was so gripping (in my opinion it's the best LA adventure in terms of plot and atmosphere).

    The only Telltale game I've needed help with so far is Strong Bad, which can be really hard to get 100%. For example, for one point you have to turn the hint rate to high, which I never would have guessed. But that's not really what I want, when I ask for harder puzzles. There are other good selling adventures that require more thinking while still being logical. So I don't think the business argument counts.

    As for the hardest adventure I've seen so far, I would have to say the first Discworld game (not the text adventure). That game doesn't give you any hints at all, just general directions like "find six golden objects", which sometimes can only be heard once. And some of the puzzles are almost unsolvable. For example:
    in order to get a strange monk's black robe, you have to go back in time, catch a butterfly and use it on the street lamp under which the monk will be standing. That butterfly is none other than the infamous quantum butterfly, which can cause rainstorms by virtue of his wing's fractal edges, so in the present the monk will get wet and hang his robe up to dry and you will be able to steal it.
    Most of the puzzles are like that, they make some kind of sense in hindsight, but are almost impossible to guess at. And you have something like 30 items in your inventory, while used items often don't even disappear when you don't need them anymore, which makes simply trying everything a very long and boring endeavour. I still liked the game though, because it was funny, although rather silly.
  • edited September 2010
    I used walkthroughs at east once in every episode of Season 1 and 2 (except 204) but never in season 3. It may be that I was getting smarter or that the game was easier, I think it would be the latter. But I'll often go on walkthroughs if it's somewhere I'm stuck, I mean how many of these people who say "Back in my day when we didn't have the internet" are going this is fun when they're waiting trying to work out what to do? And the older games were harder (I still don't knoe hot to use the binoculars in Hit the Road even after reading a walthrough) but as adventure games become more populour they have to aim at a new novice market.
  • edited September 2010
    I didn't use a walkthrough for season 3, but I always have hints on high, not to use them, but to hear the extra dialogue.
  • edited September 2010
    Yes, you are. You're a freak, nobody likes you and you were adopted.

    Kidding, kidding.

    I try to figure things out on my own, but then I find a good guide and continue to use it. Since I already have it pulled up, anyway.
  • edited September 2010
    thom-22 wrote: »
    I think we have to understand that our opinions on difficulty are not in the majority here,
    *cries*
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