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BTTF Ep 4: Double Visions Predictions thread (Spoilers Warning!)

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  • I agree. Timelines are relative. There's Marty and the Delorean's timeline and then there's the normal linear timeline of that 1986. LOGICALLY Marty and the DeLorean should've disappeared when original Doc did because he never existed to invent it, go to 2015, etc etc. The fact Marty and the DeLorean still exist implies that a new timeline started and didn't cancel out the original, however it's contradicted by the fact DOC disappeared. Is anyone else following me?

    The quantum mechanics are illogical in this game, however assuming this Marty and the DeLorean are from an alternate timeline that just starts a new tangent vs. cancelling the effects of the previous one, nothing that changes in this timeline in 1986 will affect Marty or the DeLorean. If the new Doc replaced the old one, the same should've happened to Marty logically.

    the reason why doc disappears and marty doesn't has been explained SEVERAL times including this thread. Since the hover conversions fail due to the delorean no longer getting the hover conversions in the new time line, they would be restored if the old timeline is restrored.
    Hmmm no, I like the idea too, I hadn't given it much consideration before you said it, but I think it'll be cool.

    I just hope the Telltale staff knows to give an extra amount of time to the future era in Episode 5... I love the hoverboards/cars. You know BTTF 2, love it or hate it, was responsible for a good amount of influence in the scifi world

    Part I hints at it but part II shows the ripple effect stronger than any film in the trilogy and is the only one that specifically deals with paradoxes and the future.
  • edited April 2011
    the reason why doc disappears and marty doesn't has been explained SEVERAL times including this thread. Since the hover conversions fail due to the delorean no longer getting the hover conversions in the new time line, they would be restored if the old timeline is restrored.



    Part I hints at it but part II shows the ripple effect stronger than any film in the trilogy and is the only one that specifically deals with paradoxes and the future.
    Oh, I saw the explanations, what i'm saying is logically, in reality with REAL temporal mechanics, what I said would happen, not the given explanation, although I subscribe to the theory another timeline would begin, so you couldn't erase yourself from existance.

    Also, hints at what? Multiple endings?

  • Also, hints at what? Multiple endings?
    Just the fact that part II influenced the science fiction/time line genres more than the first film did (whether it is better is up to the interpretation). The first film does hint at the ripple effect theories (affecting the future etc). But the second film deals with the effects of time travel the most in the trilogy. The first film shows us a slightly alternate timeline. The second shows a VERY alternate timeline. Without the second film we would always wonder "what happens if you go to the future?"

    Also the paradox theory (while it could have been explained better) is an important part of time travel)
  • edited April 2011
    Just the fact that part II influenced the science fiction/time line genres more than the first film did (whether it is better is up to the interpretation). The first film does hint at the ripple effect theories (affecting the future etc). But the second film deals with the effects of time travel the most in the trilogy. The first film shows us a slightly alternate timeline. The second shows a VERY alternate timeline. Without the second film we would always wonder "what happens if you go to the future?"

    Also the paradox theory (while it could have been explained better) is an important part of time travel)
    I personally don't subscribe to the paradox theory. I believe if you altered the past, it would create a divergent timeline but it would branch off, it wouldn't affect the one you came from. More like DBZ Trunks rules, the alternate one caused by his meddling didn't overwrite the one he came from. Both existed. Because how can you prevent yourself being born? Then you wont have existed to go back and prevent it in the first place.
  • I personally don't subscribe to the paradox theory. I believe if you altered the past, it would create a divergent timeline but it would branch off, it wouldn't affect the one you came from. More like DBZ Trunks rules, the alternate one caused by his meddling didn't overwrite the one he came from. Both existed. Because how can you prevent yourself being born? Then you wont have existed to go back and prevent it in the first place.

    bttf nearly goes by this theory if not for marty starting to disappear near the end of part I. The fact that the siblings disappear in the picture is fine. But it would have made life easier for them if marty didnt disappear, he just created a new timeline without him; so if he failed to get his parents together but succeeded in getting back to the future (lets say 1955 doc had some plutonium so he sent him back to the future without knowing what he did with his parents), marty would arrive in 1985 and find nobody knows who he was.
  • edited April 2011
    so if he failed to get his parents together but succeeded in getting back to the future (lets say 1955 doc had some plutonium so he sent him back to the future without knowing what he did with his parents), marty would arrive in 1985 and find nobody knows who he was.
    That in itself contradicts the theory presented in the films. Its what I mean by inconsistencies in the temporal logic
  • edited April 2011
    Hello, I'm pretty sure, no, I'm sure Marty will fight against... himself! against the "bad" Marty who works with Edna. That's the reason why it's called "Double vision".

    More, Edna will torture the Doc to force him to repair the Delorean and the bad Marty will use it to back in time to try to eliminate the good Marty and...
  • edited April 2011
    Hello, I'm pretty sure, no, I'm sure Marty will fight against... himself! against the "bad" Marty who works with Edna. That's the reason why it's called "Double vision".

    More, Edna will torture the Doc to force him to repair the Delorean and the bad Marty will use it to back in time to try to eliminate the good Marty and...
    Wow, putting all your money down on a theory with no backing, eh? Well if you turn out to be right, you win a cookie :P

    Don't get me wrong, it's a possibility. We don't know if the other Marty will show up, and if he does because he could, that he'll definitely work with Edna. Perhaps he'll find common ground and team up? You can't make such bold assertions with what little we were given right now
  • edited April 2011
    We will see wednesday the 27th... will we ? New puzzle game "Hector" will be available this day.

    Other Marty is missing, where is he ? Jennifer said he's a fervent help to the citizen program, he doesn't play guitar, he isn't "cool", he's a moron (I don't remember the exact english word she used), he's clearly an ennemy. Both Marty are in the same timeline with opposites goals, it's gonna fight!

    Or not... :confused:
  • edited April 2011
    She calls the Marty of that native reality a dork, not a moron. He can't be a moron because he's an honor's student. :P

    And if he still exists, he's at the lake at some Math competition or something.
  • edited April 2011
    And if he still exists, he's at the lake at some Math competition or something.

    You'd think the other Mathletes/the other kids at the lake would notice if Other Marty gradually began to disappear from existence. I imagine they'd go into hysterics.

    "Hey, Martin. Can you pass me that formula she--OH MY GOD!"

    Of course, this only works if you subscribe to the 'There can only be one' theory of timelines.
  • edited April 2011
    Yes! A dork! So maybe we haven't seen other Marty to simplifly the story and I just want to complicate it...

    Marty is still in this bad present and the Delorean is broken, Biff is an ennemy again, Edna is worse than I thought, the Doc was captured, we can't have only to free him and repair the car. Edna will remember Sonny Crocket and understand he's time traveler.

    Telltale, you make me crazy!

    Rendez-vous soon to win or pay my cookie.
  • Yes! A dork! So maybe we haven't seen other Marty to simplifly the story and I just want to complicate it...

    Marty is still in this bad present and the Delorean is broken, Biff is an ennemy again, Edna is worse than I thought, the Doc was captured, we can't have only to free him and repair the car. Edna will remember Sonny Crocket and understand he's time traveler.

    Telltale, you make me crazy!

    Rendez-vous soon to win or pay my cookie.

    i wouldnt say biff is an enemy, he's actually been helping marty a fair amount in episode 3, he was only an enemy when edna was controlling him. Now edna will be a very interesting character especially if she clues into the fact that marty was the mysterious character who befriended emmett in 1931 and helped her.
  • edited April 2011
    i wouldnt say biff is an enemy, he's actually been helping marty a fair amount in episode 3, he was only an enemy when edna was controlling him. Now edna will be a very interesting character especially if she clues into the fact that marty was the mysterious character who befriended emmett in 1931 and helped her.
    Well he got pissed off when the mind-control wore off because he recalled being ordered by Marty to jump down the decycling tube. Biff can go either way, I really don't know how he'll turn out yet, if he will play a role (probably will)
    Yes! A dork! So maybe we haven't seen other Marty to simplifly the story and I just want to complicate it...

    Marty is still in this bad present and the Delorean is broken, Biff is an ennemy again, Edna is worse than I thought, the Doc was captured, we can't have only to free him and repair the car. Edna will remember Sonny Crocket and understand he's time traveler.

    Telltale, you make me crazy!

    Rendez-vous soon to win or pay my cookie.
    Again, the cookie is for your theory about other-Marty showing up and turning out to be real-Marty's enemy. You just stated the obvious (or already discussed)
  • Well he got pissed off when the mind-control wore off because he recalled being ordered by Marty to jump down the decycling tube. Biff can go either way, I really don't know how he'll turn out yet, if he will play a role (probably will)


    )

    so far biff is one of only 4 or 5 remaining characters to be featured in each BTTF film and episode (doc, marty and george have been seen in each one while lorraine has been heard in each one but not seen in episodes 1 or 2)
  • edited April 2011
    so far biff is one of only 4 or 5 remaining characters to be featured in each BTTF film and episode (doc, marty and george have been seen in each one while lorraine has been heard in each one but not seen in episodes 1 or 2)
    Was George in 2? I don't recall.

    Also, you forgot Einstein (Edna's obvious) :P
  • Was George in 2? I don't recall.

    Also, you forgot Einstein (Edna's obvious) :P

    edna wasn't in the 3 films though. And yes remember george is in the brief 1986 part confined to a wheelchair in episode 2. You're right about einstein though!
  • edited April 2011
    That in itself contradicts the theory presented in the films. Its what I mean by inconsistencies in the temporal logic

    Well... perhaps. I wouldn't be surprised if it were proven so in the end. But I still need a second opinion on this theory, since quantum physics can be very tricky. I believe the logic of time travel in the BTTF universe can be explained and well-justified after all, and the two links below provide the complete theory, almost entirely explained:

    http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23050&page=3
    (posts #52 and #59)

    and

    http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24182&page=2
    (post #36)

    in that order. They're a bit longer than your average posts, but also totally worth it if you're any curious to how it all might work. I'm serious. THIS.IS.ALMOST.CERTAINLY.IT. If you find anything in this theory unclear or seriously confusing :D, ask about it in this thread, and I'll explain it the best I can. Special public credits to member Flah for the original starting idea.
  • edited April 2011
    hey isn't the geek Marty coming back tomorrow in the game so wont he get arrested too??????????????????????????
  • edited April 2011
    Well... perhaps. I wouldn't be surprised if it were proven so in the end. But I still need a second opinion on this theory, since quantum physics can be very tricky. I believe the logic of time travel in the BTTF universe can be explained and well-justified after all, and the two links below provide the complete theory, almost entirely explained:

    http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23050&page=3
    (posts #52 and #59)

    and

    http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24182&page=2
    (post #36)

    in that order. They're a bit longer than your average posts, but also totally worth it if you're any curious to how it all might work. I'm serious. THIS.IS.ALMOST.CERTAINLY.IT. If you find anything in this theory unclear or seriously confusing :D, ask about it in this thread, and I'll explain it the best I can. Special public credits to member Flah for the original starting idea.
    You didn't listen to what I was trying to say: You're arguing that it is the official theory as prescribed by BTTF and im saying that the theories involved would not work in the REAL world, i'm not disputing that Telltale isn't using the BTTF mechanics or that im trying to prove THAT wrong. I'm saying the whole BTTF mechanics are flawed and even those are showing signs of self-contradiction by the hover-circuits malfunctioning but not disappearing as a result of the tampering. And then, the wheel still works, so wtf, how is that a satisfactory explanation lol
  • edited April 2011
    Wow, putting all your money down on a theory with no backing, eh? Well if you turn out to be right, you win a cookie :P

    Don't get me wrong, it's a possibility. We don't know if the other Marty will show up, and if he does because he could, that he'll definitely work with Edna. Perhaps he'll find common ground and team up? You can't make such bold assertions with what little we were given right now

    Yes I can because I'm a dreamer and I have a lot of imagination.
    Again, the cookie is for your theory about other-Marty showing up and turning out to be real-Marty's enemy. You just stated the obvious (or already discussed)

    So happy to speak whith the guy who knows everything and who is always right.

    Thanks to vBulletin, there is a ignore option.

    Dork...
  • edited April 2011
    I never thought the other Marty could be a bad guy.
    He's just a victim of the new timeline. He cant play guitar because he cant go to Doc's place to practise anymore, and his dad is being an ass and wont let him.

    I hope we find out why Jennifer hates him so much though.
    Even if she thinks hes a dork, she did go out with him, and suddenly she hates him so much.
    Something must have happend. George said something about him being obsessed with "personal hygiene".

    Maybe she kissed him and he said "eww". haha :D
  • edited April 2011
    I never thought the other Marty could be a bad guy.
    He's just a victim of the new timeline. He cant play guitar because he cant go to Doc's place to practise anymore, and his dad is being an ass and wont let him.

    I hope we find out why Jennifer hates him so much though.
    Even if she thinks hes a dork, she did go out with him, and suddenly she hates him so much.
    Something must have happend. George said something about him being obsessed with "personal hygiene".

    Maybe she kissed him and he said "eww". haha :D

    I thought she mentioned that to him? basically he's the opposite of her interests

    Martin (FCB Timeline) = Jazz, Ukulele, Top of the Class, Square
    Marty (Original Timeline) = Rock n Roll, Electric Guitar, no idea about his studies, Slacker, Not a chicken xD
  • edited April 2011
    You didn't listen to what I was trying to say: You're arguing that it is the official theory as prescribed by BTTF and im saying that the theories involved would not work in the REAL world, i'm not disputing that Telltale isn't using the BTTF mechanics or that im trying to prove THAT wrong. I'm saying the whole BTTF mechanics are flawed and even those are showing signs of self-contradiction by the hover-circuits malfunctioning but not disappearing as a result of the tampering. And then, the wheel still works, so wtf, how is that a satisfactory explanation lol

    Actually, the theory I presented explains how exactly the BTTF mechanics can work flawlessly and not contradict themselves, and I don't think it goes against quantum physics either, so if it really doesn't, why shouldn't it work just as well in real life? The only real flaw is that we don't have any proof, since we don't have Emmett Brown's sick revolutionary genius to really invent the flux capacitor as we know it from the BTTF universe, and therefore a kind of time machine that's contained in a Delorean (or any car, for that matter). But, for example, the real Carl Sagan's time travel theories resemble the BTTF ones, so why couldn't they be true after all? And if we can't prove anything ourselves, why not enjoy at least speculating on the Flah-Scientist93 theory, which has practically got the BTTF time travel mechanics explained and functioning? :) Yes, we went with the presumption of BTTF's idea of time travel being close to real life, but then so be it. :D
  • edited April 2011
    Well... perhaps. I wouldn't be surprised if it were proven so in the end. But I still need a second opinion on this theory, since quantum physics can be very tricky. I believe the logic of time travel in the BTTF universe can be explained and well-justified after all, and the two links below provide the complete theory, almost entirely explained:

    http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23050&page=3
    (posts #52 and #59)

    and

    http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24182&page=2
    (post #36)

    in that order. They're a bit longer than your average posts, but also totally worth it if you're any curious to how it all might work. I'm serious. THIS.IS.ALMOST.CERTAINLY.IT. If you find anything in this theory unclear or seriously confusing :D, ask about it in this thread, and I'll explain it the best I can. Special public credits to member Flah for the original starting idea.
    OrangeAce and I share the same theory. I believe alternate timelines would branch out, new ones starting and going on their own tangent, but I don't believe going into the past will affect your timeline, like you can't erase yourself from existence IRL. Still, These were very enjoyable to read
  • edited April 2011
    ixemun wrote: »
    I thought she mentioned that to him? basically he's the opposite of her interests

    Martin (FCB Timeline) = Jazz, Ukulele, Top of the Class, Square
    Marty (Original Timeline) = Rock n Roll, Electric Guitar, no idea about his studies, Slacker, Not a chicken xD

    I know what she said, but my point is, that the way she acted was not like she just isnt interested.
    She acted like she is pissed off at him.

    Oh and its not really an Ukulele its still the tiny guitar Marty used to have, exept that Martin cant play it. :p

    I hope we get to see the other Martin in Episode 4.
  • edited April 2011
    I know what she said, but my point is, that the way she acted was not like she just isnt interested.
    She acted like she is pissed off at him.


    I agree
  • edited April 2011
    I have a prediction for the end of episode 4. Marty gets Emmett to break up with Edna, and the real Doc reappears. As they prepare the DeLorean to go home, something happens (maybe a big thunderstorm?) that leads Doc to suspect a paradox may somehow be happening, similar to the intro of the 1st episode. Doc and Marty look into the sky as TO BE CONCLUDED is displayed. Episode 5 would then consist of traveling through time, Past, Present, and Future, trying to fix the mysterious paradox before the Space time continuum is slowly destroyed.

    At least that's how I would see it. It would fit, they're on a climactic chase, and they have to fix everything before they run OUTATIME.
  • edited April 2011
    OrangeAce and I share the same theory. I believe alternate timelines would branch out, new ones starting and going on their own tangent, but I don't believe going into the past will affect your timeline, like you can't erase yourself from existence IRL. Still, These were very enjoyable to read

    If you haven't noticed, the Flah-Scientist93 theory ties all three major time travel theories into one logical whole: 1) you can't change history, but you don't see that (elementary in quantum physics!) before you travel through time the entire way; thus, it looks like 2) you can change history, but you're actually going through 3) alternate timelines (your and OA's theory inside of mine! :)) which are tied circularly as you pass through them, forming a closed time loop where you make time travel cause itself. The trick is, you don't have to travel the full circle, and Marty didn't either throughout the film trilogy, since his parents are better at the point where he stopped in general (end of BTTF1 - present), than before his first time travel back in part 1. But if he can "undo" all of the changes he's originally made by his first time travel (making, in essence, what is (apparently (and NOT just apparently!)!) an exact clone timeline of the one before his first time travel), and then make his journey cause itself by somehow unnoticedly traveling back to 1985 in a way that he himself actually causes Libyans to go and "kill" Doc (we don't see in the first film if he survives or not, but Marty would've made sure that he does, since he can probably make everything look the same regardless of whether he can sneak the letter in or not - making the truth that was always there!), then voila - he's actually back in his original timeline!!! If my and Flah's predictions are correct, the plot of our beloved episodic video game is going to be a closed time loop that touches the not fully traversed original one at the general point Marty has chosen to live at (what he thinks is the same history, but changed; as above, end of BTTF1 - present). Don't let the change in the newspapers content (Doc shot or not) fool you into thinking that wouldn't be a closed loop; it's all about probability, since Doc has done that part of time traveling independent of Marty, and it all ends the same anyway. At the closing of every such time loop, there is an apparent absence of free will, due to the necessary disinformation or lack of information! And note that the particular alternate-timeline structure of these loops also perfectly explains why Doc "Sagan" didn't disappear from the 1931 picture in the FCB timeline.

    Savvy? :D You can find more about the three main time travel rulesets here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_travel
    The free will issue is included and somewhat lampshaded in the first ruleset.
  • edited April 2011
    Kamagawa wrote: »
    The thing is Griff could be short for griffen, which is a girl's name, but Griff is a guy. If Biff has a daughter named Tiff, then he should have a son (griff's father).

    Biff does have a son. His name is Biff Jr. and he is about 10 years old in 1991. He is a jerk to Doc's son Verne. This is from the animated series, and whether that is considered canon is debatable, but I had always assumed that he was Griff's father.
  • edited April 2011
    If you haven't noticed, the Flah-Scientist93 theory ties all three major time travel theories into one logical whole: 1) you can't change history, but you don't see that (elementary in quantum physics!) before you travel through time the entire way; thus, it looks like 2) you can change history, but you're actually going through 3) alternate timelines (your and OA's theory inside of mine! :)) which are tied circularly as you pass through them, forming a closed time loop where you make time travel cause itself. The trick is, you don't have to travel the full circle, and Marty didn't either throughout the film trilogy, since his parents are better at the point where he stopped in general (end of BTTF1 - present), than before his first time travel back in part 1. But if he can "undo" all of the changes he's originally made by his first time travel (making, in essence, what is (apparently (and NOT just apparently!)!) an exact clone timeline of the one before his first time travel), and then make his journey cause itself by somehow unnoticedly traveling back to 1985 in a way that he himself actually causes Libyans to go and "kill" Doc (we don't see in the first film if he survives or not, but Marty would've made sure that he does, since he can probably make everything look the same regardless of whether he can sneak the letter in or not - making the truth that was always there!), then voila - he's actually back in his original timeline!!! If my and Flah's predictions are correct, the plot of our beloved episodic video game is going to be a closed time loop that touches the not fully traversed original one at the general point Marty has chosen to live at (what he thinks is the same history, but changed; as above, end of BTTF1 - present). Don't let the change in the newspapers content (Doc shot or not) fool you into thinking that wouldn't be a closed loop; it's all about probability, since Doc has done that part of time traveling independent of Marty, and it all ends the same anyway. At the closing of every such time loop, there is an apparent absence of free will, due to the necessary disinformation or lack of information! And note that the particular alternate-timeline structure of these loops also perfectly explains why Doc "Sagan" didn't disappear from the 1931 picture in the FCB timeline.

    Savvy? :D You can find more about the three main time travel rulesets here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_travel
    The free will issue is included and somewhat lampshaded in the first ruleset.
    This is acceptable, except in these cases you still wouldn't fade out of existence, or the hover-conversion parts on the DeLorean for that matter. How could the wheel work and not other parts of the car? That's the big flaw. What you listed doesn't cover these aspects, but then that's where the issues with the BTTF mechanics come in. My concept is identical to the one you just listed, it negates the possibility of erasing something that time traveled back to cause what would erase it. In that alternate timeline it wouldn't exist but it wouldn't remove the one that caused the change, be it living or nonliving.

    But yeah, I agree for the most part.
  • edited April 2011
    A note on vehicles: The big cool train from BTTF3, Clara, Jules, and Verne, remain an unknown constant. If they happened to be at a point in time prior to the 1931 flub-ups, they would remain 'unaffected' by the changes. Thus, theoretically, could jump into the FCB timeline with the usual memories of our usual storyline. This isn't likely at all, but certainly remains a mystery, and a dangerous one considering it means another time traveling device 'in the wind' so to speak.

    That being said, I think the Ep5 chase will involve Det. Tannen and a new, unknown time device from a future where a temporal police agency exists.

    Oh, and a note on the 'viability of the BTTF time mechanics'. Michio Kaku ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michio_Kaku ) did an interview stating that, while not perfect, the BTTF mechanics were the closest he's seen in entertainment media. The interview, I believe, was on the BluRay features recently. Given that he's a professional in the field, his views on it should hold quite a bit of weight compared to most of the rest of us on these forums when it comes to the viability of the mechanics.
  • edited April 2011
    lincthra wrote: »
    A note on vehicles: The big cool train from BTTF3, Clara, Jules, and Verne, remain an unknown constant. If they happened to be at a point in time prior to the 1931 flub-ups, they would remain 'unaffected' by the changes. Thus, theoretically, could jump into the FCB timeline with the usual memories of our usual storyline. This isn't likely at all, but certainly remains a mystery, and a dangerous one considering it means another time traveling device 'in the wind' so to speak.

    That being said, I think the Ep5 chase will involve Det. Tannen and a new, unknown time device from a future where a temporal police agency exists.

    Oh, and a note on the 'viability of the BTTF time mechanics'. Michio Kaku ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michio_Kaku ) did an interview stating that, while not perfect, the BTTF mechanics were the closest he's seen in entertainment media. The interview, I believe, was on the BluRay features recently. Given that he's a professional in the field, his views on it should hold quite a bit of weight compared to most of the rest of us on these forums when it comes to the viability of the mechanics.
    "Det. Tannen" who do you mean by that?
  • edited April 2011
    "Det. Tannen" who do you mean by that?

    A yet unknown Detective Tannen from the future.
  • edited April 2011
    lincthra wrote: »
    A yet unknown Detective Tannen from the future.
    Where'd you get that from?
  • edited April 2011
    Where'd you get that from?

    I think there was a poll way back where they asked what people think of different story ideas.
    But I think the Detective Tannen idea scored rather badly.
  • edited April 2011
    I think that both Marty and Jennifer are in some kind of holding area to be Citizen Plus-ed and that's when he tells her "Hey, I'm from an alternate timeline."
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