Telltale Autumn Sale

Where's Doc!? (Possible Spoilers)

Ok, I saw this was brought up briefly in another thread, but I'm seeking a more detailed conversation on the matter. At the end of episode 2, Marty and Doc fly into the lightning bolt. It seems like Doc was trying to cover himself, and then we see Marty wake up in the crashed delorean without Doc there.

It doesn't make sense to believe that Doc has disappeared. First of all, then Marty would have disappeared too. Also, in BTTF2, they didn't disappear in Biff's alternate timeline. So, it has already been established, that alternate selves don't make the time-travelling selves disappear.

If this is the case though, then where (or when) the hell is the original Doc!?

Do you guys think he might have jumped out of the car before they hit the lightning bolt? Do you think maybe he's also in this alternate 1986 somewhere, and somehow got out of the delorean before Marty woke up? What are your thoughts?

Comments

  • edited April 2011
    Lightning bolt? The time machine itself was sparking, probably because of the plain simple fact that it technically should no longer be working. Marty was lucky to get that last time jump in. Basically, because Marty was moving past the point where the timeline changes would be, at least temporarily, irrevocable, the time machine was beginning to malfunction. If Marty hadn't been accelerating to 88 mp/h when Doc realized that things were about to go very bad, then they might have had a chance of changing things back to normal. Since Marty had already stepped on the gas, there was no time. Doc vanished because he was not a Doc native to 1986 anymore. Basically, when Doc went to 2015, he went to a rejuvenation clinic and got a procedure done that added a good 30-40 years to his life. He was around 72 then. By the time you meet up with Doc again, his kids are teenagers, so add about 17 years at the least and he'd be 89. This Doc lives longer. Now, when Marty travels to the Citizen Brown timeline, he finds that any changes that were made to that timeline with the time machine, ie. George and Lorraine's meeting and their new, happier life, were undone. This means that Doc would've never gotten the rejuvenation surgery and since the Doc that was in the time machine had lived beyond his original natural lifetime, he technically could no longer exist. So, he vanished.
  • pretty much. It's implied that in the FCB timeline, doc is supposed to die before the age he is at the end of get tannen.
  • edited April 2011
    because of Gaddafi and his two "friends", I know. ;)
  • edited April 2011
    Wow, thanks guys. That actually makes sense. Kind of interesting too. So, it's basically like when Old Biff gets erased in BTTF2, because Alternate Biff would have died younger. Cool.
  • Wow, thanks guys. That actually makes sense. Kind of interesting too. So, it's basically like when Old Biff gets erased in BTTF2, because Alternate Biff would have died younger. Cool.

    yes but kind of a different scenario; Old biff probably doesnt spend that much time travelling, its just implied he doesn't live to age 78 in the alternate timeline.

    Doc has spent YEARS time travelling but in the FCB timeline, he does not time travel so the doc we see disappear either gets transported to his natural time without time travelling (so say he was time travelling for 25 years, he'd be transported to 2011) or vanishes if he does not live to the age he is in his new timeline. Or likewise lets just say george steals the almanac and goes back in time from 2015 to 1955 and biff gets his hand on it, george would disappear when he gets back to the future since he now dies in 1973.
  • edited May 2012
    I just finished the game, and I still don't understand this. I get that the Doc in the delorean with Marty is older than a non-rejuvinated Doc would be in 1986.

    What I don't get is why, since Doc diseappeared, Marty is still there. In the FCB timeline, there is a Doc who *is* FCB, and there's a Marty who's out of town. So each one of them has an alternate. The Doc inside the delorean DID have the rejuvination treatment, so why would he be affected?

    Both Doc's and Marty's pasts have changed, or else Marty wouldn't be a dork. So that explains why there are versions of them in this 1986. But why would one of them inside the delorean disappear and the other wouldn't?

    I thought the logic was that anyone in the delorean is a time traveler, and therefore still has their own timeline (until a fadeout occurs). So the Doc in the delorean should still have his rejuvination treatments and be alive.
  • edited May 2012
    bortery wrote: »
    I just finished the game, and I still don't understand this. I get that the Doc in the delorean with Marty is older than a non-rejuvinated Doc would be in 1986.

    What I don't get is why, since Doc diseappeared, Marty is still there. In the FCB timeline, there is a Doc who *is* FCB, and there's a Marty who's out of town. So each one of them has an alternate. The Doc inside the delorean DID have the rejuvination treatment, so why would he be affected?

    Both Doc's and Marty's pasts have changed, or else Marty wouldn't be a dork. So that explains why there are versions of them in this 1986. But why would one of them inside the delorean disappear and the other wouldn't?

    I thought the logic was that anyone in the delorean is a time traveler, and therefore still has their own timeline (until a fadeout occurs). So the Doc in the delorean should still have his rejuvination treatments and be alive.

    Agreed.

    The only possible explanation IMO is that Emmett Brown, being the inventor of time travel, has become the lynchpin of the space-time continuum and that any drastic alteration to his timeline causes the continuum to unravel in unpredictable ways. This might explain why the 1885 trips were erased even though they occurred BEFORE the divergence caused by the trips to 1931...maybe the continuum went out of its way to erase ALL traces of the Original Doc from the timeline (except the ones which were necessary to the maintenance of the FCB timeline-namely the 1931 trips).
  • edited May 2012
    bortery wrote: »
    I just finished the game, and I still don't understand this. I get that the Doc in the delorean with Marty is older than a non-rejuvinated Doc would be in 1986.

    What I don't get is why, since Doc diseappeared, Marty is still there. In the FCB timeline, there is a Doc who *is* FCB, and there's a Marty who's out of town. So each one of them has an alternate. The Doc inside the delorean DID have the rejuvination treatment, so why would he be affected?

    Both Doc's and Marty's pasts have changed, or else Marty wouldn't be a dork. So that explains why there are versions of them in this 1986. But why would one of them inside the delorean disappear and the other wouldn't?

    I thought the logic was that anyone in the delorean is a time traveler, and therefore still has their own timeline (until a fadeout occurs). So the Doc in the delorean should still have his rejuvination treatments and be alive.

    I also don't really get this in the movies either.
    BTTF doesn't seem to stick to a self established rule but rather changes them for the drama of the story.
    eg: Is the time-traveller affected by the changes he establishes or not?
    Old Biff in BTTF 2 IS affected by the changes he made. He fades out of existance.
    Marty in BTTF 1 IS affected by the changes he made to some extend. He nearly fades out because his parents hardly fall in love. So his physical appearance (and existance) is affected but not his mental appearance. He keeps his memories although he altered his own childhood.
    Same goes for Doc in BTTF 3. Why was the Doc in 1885 surprised when Marty showed up to save him? By writing the letter and delivering it to Marty in 1955 he altered his own 1950s past but didn't get affected by it.
    So who and what is affected by changes in the timelines is simply a matter of telling a dramatic story. Nothing more and nothing less.
  • tope1983 wrote: »
    I also don't really get this in the movies either.
    BTTF doesn't seem to stick to a self established rule but rather changes them for the drama of the story.
    eg: Is the time-traveller affected by the changes he establishes or not?
    Old Biff in BTTF 2 IS affected by the changes he made. He fades out of existance.
    Marty in BTTF 1 IS affected by the changes he made to some extend. He nearly fades out because his parents hardly fall in love. So his physical appearance (and existance) is affected but not his mental appearance. He keeps his memories although he altered his own childhood.
    Same goes for Doc in BTTF 3. Why was the Doc in 1885 surprised when Marty showed up to save him? By writing the letter and delivering it to Marty in 1955 he altered his own 1950s past but didn't get affected by it.
    So who and what is affected by changes in the timelines is simply a matter of telling a dramatic story. Nothing more and nothing less.

    Ripple effect not affecting human memory. Also at least from the trilogy, time does not ripple backwards.

    In the game it seems marty doesn't endanger his own existance in episode 3 hence why he doesn't fade. He does at the end of episode 1/start of episode 2 hence why he starts fading.
  • edited May 2012
    Ripple effect not affecting human memory. Also at least from the trilogy, time does not ripple backwards.

    In the game it seems marty doesn't endanger his own existance in episode 3 hence why he doesn't fade. He does at the end of episode 1/start of episode 2 hence why he starts fading.

    How is Doc's existence endangered if there's a version of him in the FCB timeline? There's a version of him and a version of Marty. So since Marty's in the time machine, Doc should be also.

    Thanks to all who replied, glad I'm not the only one who felt it didn't make sense.
  • bortery wrote: »
    How is Doc's existence endangered if there's a version of him in the FCB timeline? There's a version of him and a version of Marty. So since Marty's in the time machine, Doc should be also.

    Thanks to all who replied, glad I'm not the only one who felt it didn't make sense.

    doc's existance at whichever age he was prior to entering FCB 1986 was endangered. He doesn't live that long.
  • edited May 2012
    doc's existance at whichever age he was prior to entering FCB 1986 was endangered. He doesn't live that long.

    It doesn't matter whether or not FCB Doc lived that long, the Doc in the delorean DID live that long, because he had the rejuvination treatment. Time travelers in the delorean shouldn't be affected.
  • bortery wrote: »
    It doesn't matter whether or not FCB Doc lived that long, the Doc in the delorean DID live that long, because he had the rejuvination treatment. Time travelers in the delorean shouldn't be affected.

    why is that? The marty in the delorean that traveled to 1955 nearly disappeared when he endangered his existance.
  • edited May 2012
    why is that? The marty in the delorean that traveled to 1955 nearly disappeared when he endangered his existance.

    But he didn't disappear instantly.

    If Doc's existence was endangered in FCB 1986, then why wasn't Marty's? They each had an alternate version in FCB 1986. Doc should have been in equal danger (or lack thereof) as Marty.
  • edited May 2012
    Because when Marty showed up in 1955 he hadn't gone past the point of the ripple yet. In theory, if he would have hopped back into the DeLorean and gone back to 1985 after he stopped Lorraine and George's first meeting then he would have instantly disappeared. Because Doc went past the point of the ripple, he instantly vanished. Had Marty and Doc stayed in 1931, Doc would have had an opportunity to break up Emmett and Edna, but if he took too long he would have faded like Marty in Part I. But because he jumped ahead of the Ripple Effect in the D, he didn't have an opportunity to fade out.
  • hscitpe wrote: »
    Because when Marty showed up in 1955 he hadn't gone past the point of the ripple yet. In theory, if he would have hopped back into the DeLorean and gone back to 1985 after he stopped Lorraine and George's first meeting then he would have instantly disappeared. Because Doc went past the point of the ripple, he instantly vanished. Had Marty and Doc stayed in 1931, Doc would have had an opportunity to break up Emmett and Edna, but if he took too long he would have faded like Marty in Part I. But because he jumped ahead of the Ripple Effect in the D, he didn't have an opportunity to fade out.

    bingo; doc crossed the junction point (as does biff in part II), marty does not, marty doesnt fade until the junction is nearly reached.
  • edited May 2012
    Though of course, that still doesn't answer the question of why Doc faded but Marty didn't satisfactorily.

    Honestly, the real answer is that they needed to get Marty together with Citizen Brown, and that was only gonna happen if the original Doc vanished!
  • edited May 2012
    It kind of does. Marty wasn't in imminent danger, he still existed in this timeline. George and Lorraine still were married and had Marty, and probably Dave and Linda. He never would have faded out in the first place. Doc did, again, because his physical being was 100+ years old and would have died.
  • edited May 2012
    I think it was ether because FCB was a huge change to the timeline while Marty turning into a nerd is not that much a change on the timeline (it only effected Marty and Jennifer's timelines) While FCB changed everyone's timelines (Marty,Jennifer,George,Lorraine,Biff,Einstein,Edna, and Hill Valley itself.) So i think it's because First Citzen Brown was needed for the FCB timeline to exist. Also it could have something to do with Doc being older than Marty and because of that Doc passes the point where the timeline can be changed (Marrying Edna) while Nerd Marty still could have changed (He could stop acting like a nerd)
  • edited May 2012
    I think it was ether because FCB was a huge change to the timeline while Marty turning into a nerd is not that much a change on the timeline (it only effected Marty and Jennifer's timelines) While FCB changed everyone's timelines (Marty,Jennifer,George,Lorraine,Biff,Einstein,Edna, and Hill Valley itself.) So i think it's because First Citzen Brown was needed for the FCB timeline to exist. Also it could have something to do with Doc being older than Marty and because of that Doc passes the point where the timeline can be changed (Marrying Edna) while Nerd Marty still could have changed (He could stop acting like a nerd)

    How much the altered timeline affected Marty's personal life is not the issue here. The point is that FCB Marty (or 'Nerd Marty' as you call him) never time traveled, just like FCB Doc didn't.

    So if FCB Doc didn't time travel, and Original Doc fades as a result, then by that logic, if FCB Marty didn't time travel, then Original Marty fades.
  • edited May 2012
    Yes but the point is Doc has gone past the point the future can be changed (Marrying Edna) and before people say it can be changed i mean that it's like bttf 1 where Marty started fading out when he was close to the point where his parents would ether fall in love or Marty would fade out. So since they already went to the future they passed the point where it could be changed (Marrying Edna) and the only way to change it was between when Doc & Edna starting to date (Episode 2's ending) to Doc planning to marry Edna (Episode 4) which Marty changed by mistake meaning he had 1 day to break up Doc while Marty being a nerd can be changed anytime (he could learn to be cool)
  • edited May 2012
    Yes but the point is Doc has gone past the point the future can be changed (Marrying Edna) and before people say it can be changed i mean that it's like bttf 1 where Marty started fading out when he was close to the point where his parents would ether fall in love or Marty would fade out. So since they already went to the future they passed the point where it could be changed (Marrying Edna) and the only way to change it was between when Doc & Edna starting to date (Episode 2's ending) to Doc planning to marry Edna (Episode 4) which Marty changed by mistake meaning he had 1 day to break up Doc while Marty being a nerd can be changed anytime (he could learn to be cool)

    Yeah, but since there already WAS an alternate Marty in FCB 1986, just like there was an alternate Doc, why would the space-time continuum preserve 'our' Marty if it didn't preserve 'our' Doc? The implication seems to be that the FCB timeline overwrote Doc, but didn't 'overwrite' the original Marty...

    I still go with my explanation that the changes made to Doc's past shattered the space-time continuum and caused it to react unpredictably...erasing all traces of the Original Doc.
  • edited May 2012
    I think our Marty wasn't overwritten because, as I stated earlier, his life up to that point wasn't in danger. He still survived. The implication that I got about Doc is what people have been saying over and over again. Even if he would have instantly transformed into FCB, at that age FCB would be dead.

    The same can be said in reverse about Marty. In the end of Ep1/beginning of Ep2 (when Marty is fading out of existence) if Doc and Marty hopped into the DeLorean and went back to 1986, as soon as they crossed the fourth dimensional threshold Marty would have instantly vanished. He would have passed the junction point and hopped over the ripple effect and arrived in a world in which he was never born, so he would have instantaneously disappeared.
  • edited May 2012
    hscitpe wrote: »
    I think our Marty wasn't overwritten because, as I stated earlier, his life up to that point wasn't in danger. He still survived. The implication that I got about Doc is what people have been saying over and over again. Even if he would have instantly transformed into FCB, at that age FCB would be dead.

    The same can be said in reverse about Marty. In the end of Ep1/beginning of Ep2 (when Marty is fading out of existence) if Doc and Marty hopped into the DeLorean and went back to 1986, as soon as they crossed the fourth dimensional threshold Marty would have instantly vanished. He would have passed the junction point and hopped over the ripple effect and arrived in a world in which he was never born, so he would have instantaneously disappeared.

    That doesn't make sense. Doc wasn't 'transformed' into FCB...he was erased because FCB Doc existed and had never time traveled. If Doc 'transformed' into FCB Doc, then Marty would have likewise 'transformed' into FCB Marty.

    Having said that, the age of the Original Doc is immaterial. As long as HE exists, the rejuvenation treatments that allowed him to live that long would be in effect, regardless of the age disparity between him and FCB Doc.

    This whole argument that Original Doc fades because FCB Doc cannot live that long doesn't make any sense and contradicts the whole notion that the 'future isn't written'. FCB Doc's future ISN'T written, and it isn't predestined at what age he will die, so that cannot affect Original Doc. In ANY case, Original Doc shouldn't be affected for that reason because he's a seperate entity from FCB Doc...either he's erased because he isn't supposed to exist, or he co-exists with his alternate self!
  • edited May 2012
    sn939 wrote: »
    That doesn't make sense. Doc wasn't 'transformed' into FCB...he was erased because FCB Doc existed and had never time traveled. If Doc 'transformed' into FCB Doc, then Marty would have likewise 'transformed' into FCB Marty.

    Having said that, the age of the Original Doc is immaterial. As long as HE exists, the rejuvenation treatments that allowed him to live that long would be in effect, regardless of the age disparity between him and FCB Doc.

    This whole argument that Original Doc fades because FCB Doc cannot live that long doesn't make any sense and contradicts the whole notion that the 'future isn't written'. FCB Doc's future ISN'T written, and it isn't predestined at what age he will die, so that cannot affect Original Doc. In ANY case, Original Doc shouldn't be affected for that reason because he's a seperate entity from FCB Doc...either he's erased because he isn't supposed to exist, or he co-exists with his alternate self!

    Agreed with sn. Either Doc is the lynchpin and for that reason his disappearance was different than anyone else's would have been, or else the writers messed up/knew it wouldn't really make sense and did it anyway.
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