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Some observations I made while going through the Game again...

posted by sn939 on - last edited - Viewed by 401 users
-Okay, actually, Original Doc (with the rejunevation treatments) and Citizen Brown DO look more or less exactly the same (except Citizen Brown is partly bald). This is with regard to a thread I'd once started about why people in 1931 didn't wonder why 'Carl Sagan' suddenly looked older. I guess I just imagined Citizen Brown looking older the first time round because he logically SHOULD look older.

-It just occurred to me now that Jennifer didn't exist in the Tannen-ruled alternate timeline of Episode 2. When Marty's parents didn't know who she was, I assumed that this meant she and Marty didn't date in this timeline...but actually, its because in this timeline, Danny didn't arrest Kid Tannen and so he never won back his reputation and self-respect, and Jennifer's grandmothers heart and so Jennifer's father, and she herself, weren't born.

-I couldn't figure out why Marty was so upset about Citizen Brown being erased from existence. After all, that was what he wanted-to erase the FCB timeline and restore the normal timeline and the Doc he knew. Citizen Brown being erased was an indication that he had succeeded.

-If you look at the 'Last Time Departed' just before Citizen Brown and Marty make the jump back to 1931, you'll see that it reads 'November 5th, 1986'. This means that Citizen Brown completed the repairs to the Delorean, and made his first time jump on the very day his other self discovered time travel by envisioning the flux capacitor. Also, he makes his first time jump FROM the day the very first time jump (made by a human, that is!) was made TO (Marty's original trip to '55).

-Doc's bankruptcy and money troubles in the original timeline are kinda explained. In Episode 4, Emmett mentions how his father threatened to cut him out of his will because of his rebellion. Now while we know Emmett still inherited SOMETHING, its possible that Judge Brown might, out of spite, managed to deprive Emmett of a substantial amount of his inheritance somehow (maybe bequething it to a distant relative or to charity or something), leaving Doc with a lot less cash. However, in the repaired timeline at the end of the game, because of the better relationship between Emmett and his father, Emmett inherits the entire fortune AND a foundation...and Judge Brown possibly made some good investments for him...so as a result, Doc is a LOT better-off and respected figure in town.

-Jennifer disappearing from the prom picture doesn't really make sense, in Episode 3. Normally a person disappears from a photo if he/she is erased from existence...whereas Jennifer wasn't erased from existence per se, merely altered by the timeline. And it can't be because the ORIGINAL Jennifer from the normal timeline was erased, because in that case, Original Marty should have been erased from the photo too (and the photo of George McFly should have been blank as well, because THAT version of George no longer existed). And it ALSO can't be because Jennifer in this timeline didn't go to the prom with Marty, because in that case, Marty still shouldn't be in the picture himself, since I doubt there would even BE proms in FCB 1986.

-The 1986 newspaper sure changes a LOT. In the Tannen-run 1986 the front page contains an article about the Tannen Mob running amok. In the FCB 1986 the article is about crime rates in Hill Valley being at an all time low. Before saving young Emmett's scientific career, it depicts the divorce proceedings of Edna and the industrialist Emmett Brown in a possible 1986. After Emmett performs his experiment, it finally shows Doc receiving the Key to the City. I wonder what it showed in the Burnt Hill Valley timeline? Shouldn't it have been blank, since that newspaper wouldn't even be PUBLISHED?

-Doc (ANY version of him) seems awfully concerned about paradoxes, despite the fact that he and Marty have created SO many of them so far! For instance, in Episode 1, Doc worries that if Marty goes back and prevents him from getting arrested, then this will prevent the course of events that leads Marty to come back to save him in the first place? Um, wasn't that pretty much the same thing Marty did in the case of the tombstone in BTTF3? Also, Citizen Brown claims that Marty being involved in the repairs of the Delorean would cause a paradox? Exactly how is THAT possible?? In Episode 5, Doc claims injuring Edna or damaging the alternate Delorean will screw up the timeline. How? Damaging the Delorean won't make a difference at all, especially since its not supposed to exist anyway! Injuring Edna MIGHT have more serious repurcussions, but seeing how much 1986 has been changed anyway, it wouldn't have made so much of a difference.
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  • sn939;548668 said:
    -Okay, actually, Original Doc (with the rejunevation treatments) and Citizen Brown DO look more or less exactly the same (except Citizen Brown is partly bald). This is with regard to a thread I'd once started about why people in 1931 didn't wonder why 'Carl Sagan' suddenly looked older. I guess I just imagined Citizen Brown looking older the first time round because he logically SHOULD look older.
    I think FCB was designed to look like Christopher Lloyd now

    -It just occurred to me now that Jennifer didn't exist in the Tannen-ruled alternate timeline of Episode 2. When Marty's parents didn't know who she was, I assumed that this meant she and Marty didn't date in this timeline...but actually, its because in this timeline, Danny didn't arrest Kid Tannen and so he never won back his reputation and self-respect, and Jennifer's grandmothers heart and so Jennifer's father, and she herself, weren't born.
    I've only played episode 2 twice but didn't Danny imply his relationship was on the rocks in the bar?

    -I couldn't figure out why Marty was so upset about Citizen Brown being erased from existence. After all, that was what he wanted-to erase the FCB timeline and restore the normal timeline and the Doc he knew. Citizen Brown being erased was an indication that he had succeeded.
    I think it's just a case of Doc leaving him AGAIN, he still considers FCB to be Doc and he more or less wants hill valley restored, he likely doesn't know whether or not that would change doc back. At this point he doesnt realize normal Doc will return

    -If you look at the 'Last Time Departed' just before Citizen Brown and Marty make the jump back to 1931, you'll see that it reads 'November 5th, 1986'. This means that Citizen Brown completed the repairs to the Delorean, and made his first time jump on the very day his other self discovered time travel by envisioning the flux capacitor. Also, he makes his first time jump FROM the day the very first time jump (made by a human, that is!) was made TO (Marty's original trip to '55).
    Yeah I posted this in the episode 4 topic when it came out. Doesn't that date hold some other cosmic time travel significance in fiction?

    -Doc's bankruptcy and money troubles in the original timeline are kinda explained. In Episode 4, Emmett mentions how his father threatened to cut him out of his will because of his rebellion. Now while we know Emmett still inherited SOMETHING, its possible that Judge Brown might, out of spite, managed to deprive Emmett of a substantial amount of his inheritance somehow (maybe bequething it to a distant relative or to charity or something), leaving Doc with a lot less cash. However, in the repaired timeline at the end of the game, because of the better relationship between Emmett and his father, Emmett inherits the entire fortune AND a foundation...and Judge Brown possibly made some good investments for him...so as a result, Doc is a LOT better-off and respected figure in town.
    It doesnt seem that Doc has been around to pay his bills for the past 7 months. Remember the clipping for the Brown mansion fire we see at the beginning of part I? That may not happen in the new timeline

    [/QUOTE]
    -Jennifer disappearing from the prom picture doesn't really make sense, in Episode 3. Normally a person disappears from a photo if he/she is erased from existence...whereas Jennifer wasn't erased from existence per se, merely altered by the timeline. And it can't be because the ORIGINAL Jennifer from the normal timeline was erased, because in that case, Original Marty should have been erased from the photo too (and the photo of George McFly should have been blank as well, because THAT version of George no longer existed). And it ALSO can't be because Jennifer in this timeline didn't go to the prom with Marty, because in that case, Marty still shouldn't be in the picture himself, since I doubt there would even BE proms in FCB 1986. [/QUOTE]

    It makes perfect sense; remember the 2015 newspaper changes from Marty Jr. to Biffs Gang even though Marty Jr. still exists. The picture should logically show whatever was in that frame. Marty didnt go to prom with Jennifer, instead he went alone apparently. George on the other hand WAS erased from existence in the timeline Arthur dies.

    -The 1986 newspaper sure changes a LOT. In the Tannen-run 1986 the front page contains an article about the Tannen Mob running amok. In the FCB 1986 the article is about crime rates in Hill Valley being at an all time low. Before saving young Emmett's scientific career, it depicts the divorce proceedings of Edna and the industrialist Emmett Brown in a possible 1986. After Emmett performs his experiment, it finally shows Doc receiving the Key to the City. I wonder what it showed in the Burnt Hill Valley timeline? Shouldn't it have been blank, since that newspaper wouldn't even be PUBLISHED?
    IIRC you can look at the newspaper in the burnt hill valley timeline and it still has writing on it. You're right it probably should be blank although while Hill valley doesn't exist in 1931 we have no clue what happens in 1986 during such timeline.

    -Doc (ANY version of him) seems awfully concerned about paradoxes, despite the fact that he and Marty have created SO many of them so far! For instance, in Episode 1, Doc worries that if Marty goes back and prevents him from getting arrested, then this will prevent the course of events that leads Marty to come back to save him in the first place? Um, wasn't that pretty much the same thing Marty did in the case of the tombstone in BTTF3? Also, Citizen Brown claims that Marty being involved in the repairs of the Delorean would cause a paradox? Exactly how is THAT possible?? In Episode 5, Doc claims injuring Edna or damaging the alternate Delorean will screw up the timeline. How? Damaging the Delorean won't make a difference at all, especially since its not supposed to exist anyway! Injuring Edna MIGHT have more serious repurcussions, but seeing how much 1986 has been changed anyway, it wouldn't have made so much of a difference.
    It's even more head scratching that FCB even knows what a paradox is since to him time travel is just fiction until marty comes along. I'm not sure how much Marty told him but any sacrifice of Marty would cause a paradox as it's imperative to the timeline that Marty Jr. get born eventually.
  • Michael J Fox is Canadian;548804 said:

    I've only played episode 2 twice but didn't Danny imply his relationship was on the rocks in the bar?

    Yeah he did...that's the basis for my realisation that Jen didn't exist in that timeline.
    Michael J Fox is Canadian;548804 said:

    I think it's just a case of Doc leaving him AGAIN, he still considers FCB to be Doc and he more or less wants hill valley restored, he likely doesn't know whether or not that would change doc back. At this point he doesnt realize normal Doc will return

    Yeah, but didn't he WANT normal Doc to return?
    Michael J Fox is Canadian;548804 said:

    Yeah I posted this in the episode 4 topic when it came out. Doesn't that date hold some other cosmic time travel significance in fiction?

    In the 1979 movie Time after Time, it is the date in 1979 to which the (fictional) HG Wells makes his first time travel trip.
    Michael J Fox is Canadian;548804 said:

    It doesnt seem that Doc has been around to pay his bills for the past 7 months. Remember the clipping for the Brown mansion fire we see at the beginning of part I? That may not happen in the new timeline

    Well, it still looks like the Mansion burnt down in this timeline...because the garage is more or less as we see it in the movies and Episode 1. Maybe Doc moved into the garage in this timeline as well, but later, when Clara and the kids moved in with him, he bought a house somewhere and simply maintains the garage as a lab/workshop.
    Michael J Fox is Canadian;548804 said:

    It makes perfect sense; remember the 2015 newspaper changes from Marty Jr. to Biffs Gang even though Marty Jr. still exists. The picture should logically show whatever was in that frame. Marty didnt go to prom with Jennifer, instead he went alone apparently. George on the other hand WAS erased from existence in the timeline Arthur dies.

    The newspaper in 2015 changes to Biff's Gang simply because THEY were in the news the next day instead of him. It had nothing to do with existence. When newspapers change, they change to reflect whatever was the article printed on that day in the most likely future. Whereas, when people just disappear from photographs, it implies that they are being erased from existence.

    As far as Marty not going to the prom with Jennifer goes...there wouldn't BE any proms in Edna's Hill Valley...so why would Marty even be in the picture himself?
    Michael J Fox is Canadian;548804 said:

    IIRC you can look at the newspaper in the burnt hill valley timeline and it still has writing on it. You're right it probably should be blank although while Hill valley doesn't exist in 1931 we have no clue what happens in 1986 during such timeline.

    You're right. Chances are that after 'Scary Mary' died, someone came along and redeveloped the land anyway...so there MIGHT have been a Hill Valley in 1986.
    Michael J Fox is Canadian;548804 said:

    It's even more head scratching that FCB even knows what a paradox is since to him time travel is just fiction until marty comes along. I'm not sure how much Marty told him but any sacrifice of Marty would cause a paradox as it's imperative to the timeline that Marty Jr. get born eventually.
    Yeah its true. He claims its due to his limited understanding of time travel he's gained since meeting Marty. But that doesn't really make sense? And why would Marty helping fix the Delorean cause a paradox?

    BTW, its not imperative to the timeline that Marty Jr. get born eventually. The 2015 in BTTF2 is just a possible future...and the future isn't written. Anyhow, if stuff like 1985-A or the Citizen Brown timeline didn't cause a paradox...then Marty Jr. not being born damn well won't.
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