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Should this game be cancelled?

posted by Anakin Skywalker on - last edited - Viewed by 4.2K users
Be honest, fan groups and their groupies. Should KQ stay dead unless a fan group gets it? Should TT's game be cancelled?
78 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • MusicallyInspired;613141 said:
    You can't trust the credits given to the designers on the game boxes. Josh Mandel has long since exposed that Sierra had a "star/celebrity" designer PR system where they advertised someone as the lead and sole designer even if they had next to nothing to do with it, to appeal to the fanbase and sell more copies. Space Quest 6, for instance, doesn't mention Josh Mandel anywhere and gives Scott Murphy all the credit when he only finished it up towards the end after Josh left the company. Josh also designed most of Freddy Pharkas, as I understand it, and also Laura Bow 2. Yet those games are credited solely to Al Lowe and Roberta Williams respectively. Of course Roberta veto-ed everything on her games. She conceived and created King's Quest, after all. But that doesn't mean she came up with everything.

    Also, I don't necessarily mean that SQ was better written, even though I may consider that true. I just mean that the Space Quest series as a whole is, in my opinion, better than the King's Quest series. In every aspect of design. Atmosphere, puzzle design, characterization, creativity, dialogue, humour (obviously), background art, music, etc. I consider all aspects, not just writing.
    By the same token, couldn't Scott and Mark have had a lot of help which was not credited? It seems like you're trying to make Roberta out to be George Lucas--a fraud, a hack who got more credit than he was due. The fact is, when she didn't have a leading creative role, it was credited as such. For example, Jane Jensen wrote the dialogue and text for KQ6--And is credited as such. If it was all about advertising, the fact that Jane wrote the bulk of KQ6 wouldn't have been let out. Lorelei Shannon wrote the entire script for KQ7, with Roberta only contributing the story, characters and design ideas--and is credited as such. Once again, if Roberta had outside help, she gave credit. She is also listed last on the list of the three directors of KQ7.

    I'm not talking about credits listed on game boxes or in advertising. I'm talking about credits given in the game's credits themselves.

    Also, with Josh Mandel and Scott it seems that Josh's name being excluded from SQ6's advertising was out of spite as he quit the company leaving them with an unfinished game. Oddly though, the Holiday '94 issue of InterAction talks about SQ6 and has Scott and Josh heavily talked about as co-designers. That Josh was the new "Guy from Andromeda" alongside Scott.

    Also while Josh's name was kept out of the advertising, he was given credit in the game's credits. I just watched the end of a longplay to confirm it. It says:

    Designed by
    Josh Mandel
    Scott Murphy

    Advertising is one thing. What really counts are the credits in the games themselves.
  • MusicallyInspired;613141 said:
    Laura Bow 2. Yet those games are credited solely to Al Lowe and Roberta Williams respectively. Of course Roberta veto-ed everything on her games. She conceived and created King's Quest, after all. But that doesn't mean she came up with everything.
    As to Laura Bow 2, these are the ingame credits:

    Bruce Balfour

    Josh Mandel

    Additional Written Material:
    Lorelei Shannon

    Special Thanks to:
    Scott Murphy (among others)

    In game credits for Freddy Pharkas:

    Game Designers:
    Al Lowe
    Josh Mandel

    Josh Mandel
  • One mystery is who was behind this bit of script in the KQ2 files ;)
    "She is even more lovely than she appeared in the mirror. Her long auburn hair tumbles down to cover her large firm breasts. Her erect nipples are one of the indications that her warm thighs would welcome your tender kisses."
    Actually, most of the design interviews suggest that Roberta Williams wrote the text in KQ2 (just not the manual).

    Although that bit sounds something more like Al Lowe would have done in LSL. He was just the musician for the game and writer of the KQ2 hintbook. IIRC, it was his work on KQ2 music that led to him getting the right to produce the first LSL!

    As for the credits (the ones for the later games in the series are not necessarily complete);

    King's Quest I Credits

    King's Quest I: Quest for the Crown

    AGI Version

    Designed & Written by Roberta Williams

    Original Version Charles Tingley Ken MacNeill Chris Iden

    New Version Jeff Stephenson Sol Ackerman Chris Iden

    Graphics Doug MacNeill Greg Rowland

    Thanks to Linda Ackerman Mark Crowe Robert Heitman Scott Murphy

    Documentation Roberta Williams

    King's Quest I Sci Credits
    SCI Version

    Game Designer Roberta Williams

    Producer Josh Mandel

    Art Designer William D. Skirvin

    Illustrated by Jeff Crowe Cindy Walker Jennifer Shontz

    Programmed by Jerry Shaw, Gary Kamigawachi, Randy MacNeill, Raoul Said, Chad Bye, Oliver Brelsford, Mark Wilden

    Development System Jeff Stephenson, Robert E. Heitman, Pablo Ghenis, John Hartin, Dan Foy, Larry Scott, John Rettig, Corinna Abdul Corey Cole, Mark Hood, Eric Hart

    Composer Ken Allen

    Quality Assurance Chris Carr and the rest of the gang

    King's Quest II Credits

    King's Quest II: Romancing the Throne

    Designed & Written by Roberta Williams

    Development System Jeff Stephenson Chris Iden Robert Heitman

    Game Logic Ken Williams Sol Ackerman Chris Iden Scott Murphy Dale Carlson

    Graphics Doug MacNeill Mark Crowe

    Documenation Annette Childs

    Music Al Lowe

    King's Quest III Credits

    King's Quest III: To Heir is Human

    Written & Designed by Roberta Williams

    Programming Al Lowe Bob Heitman Bob Kernaghan

    Graphics Doug MacNeill Mark Crowe

    Music Margaret Lowe

    Story Annette Childs

    Documentation Annette Childs

    King's Quest IV Credits

    King's Quest IV: The Perils of Rosella

    Written & Designed by Roberta Williams

    Game Development System Jeff Stephenson Robert Heitman Pablo Ghenis Chris Iden Paul Krasno

    Music Development System Stuart Goldstein

    Programming Ken Koch John Hamilton Chane Fullmer Chris Hoyt Teresa Baker

    Animation & Background Scenes Carolly Hauksdottir William Skirvin Jerry Moore

    Documentation Jerry Albright

    King's Quest V Credits

    King's Quest V: Absence Makes the Heart Go Yonder

    Executive Producer Ken Williams

    Creative Director Bill Davis

    Game Designer & Producer Roberta Williams

    Art Designer Andy Hoyos

    Lead Programmer Chris Iden

    Composers Mark Seibert Ken Allen

    Documentation Bridget McKenna

    Creative Consultant William D. Skirvin

    Artists Ernie Chan, Douglas Herring, Jeff Crowe, William D. Skirvin, Maurice Morgan, Vas Nokhoudian, Barry T. Smith, Cindy Walker, Deena Benz, Tamra Dayton, Dana Dean, Roger Hardy Jr., Harry McLaughlin, Jennifer Shontz, Deanna Yhalkee, Jim Larson, Cheryl Loyd, Jerry Moore, Cheryl Sweeney, Eric Kasner, Hector Martinez, Richard D. Zeigler-Martin

    Programmers Chris Iden, Chris Hoyt, Robert W. Lindsley, Raoul Said, Doug Oldfield, Carlos Escobar, Oliver Brelsford

    Development System Jeff Stephenson, Robert E. Heitman, Pablo Ghenis, Corey Cole, Dan Foy, John Rettig, John Hartin, Larry Scott, Eric Hart, J. Mark Hood

    Music/Sound Effects Mark Seibert Ken Allen

    King's Quest VI Credits

    King's Quest VI: Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow

    Written, Designed, & Directed by Roberta Williams Jane Jensen

    Producer, Director, & Art Designer William D. Skirvin

    Composer Chris Braymen

    Text & Dialogue Jane Jensen

    Senior Artists Michael Hutchison John Shroades

    Team Artists Russell Truelove Deanna Yhalkee

    Senior Programmer Robert W. Lindsley

    Team Programmers Randy MacNeill Robert L. Mallory Victor Sadauskas

    Team Quality Assurance Robin Bradley

    Guidebook Writer Jane Jensen

    Guidebook Illustration John Shroades

    Guidebook Designer Mark Empey

    Additional Artists Darlou Gams, Tim Loucks, Rick Morgan, Jennifer Shontz, Cindy Walker, Karin A. Young

    Opening Cartoon by Kronos: Stanley Liu, Albert Co

    Cinematography Rod Fung Bob Ballew

    Additional Music & Sound Effects Dan Kehler, Mark Seibert, Rick Spurgeon, Nightingale Songs

    Additional Programmers Doug Oldfield Carlos Escobar

    Additional Quality Assurance Mike Brosius John Ratcliffe

    Technical Support Rob Koeppel

    Special Thanks Tammy Dargan Rebecca Sebastian Fresno State University

    King's Quest VII credits

    Designed by Lorelei Shannon, Roberta Williams

    Written by Lorelei Shannon

    Script by Lorelei Shannon

    Story by Lorelei Shannon, Roberta Williams

    Based on original characters created by Roberta Williams

    Directors Andy Hoyos, Lorelei Shannon, Roberta Williams

    Producer Mark Seibert

    Art Director Andy Hoyos

    Director of Animation Marc Hudgins

    Lead Programmers Oliver Brelsford, Tom DeSalvo

    Musicians Neal Grandstaf, Dan Kehler, Mark Seibert, Jay Usher

    Voice Director (Voice Casting and Direction) Lorelei Shannon

    Quality Assurance Lead Dan Woolard

    In-House Animation - Chapter 6 Steven Gregory, Sherry Wheeler, Jason Zayas

    King's Quest 8 credits

    Credits Team Mask

    Designer/Writer Roberta Williams

    Producer/Director/Co-Designer Mark Seibert

    Art Director Jason Piel

    Animation Director Jason Zayas

    Programmers Adam Szofran Alan Clark David Wenger Jeff Orkin Jeff Pobst Jim Edwards John McKinnie Scott Bodenbender 3D Artists Barry Sundt Bob Munsil William Todd Bryan

    Animators Ethan Walker John Piel Marc Vulcano Ray Bornstein

    Quality Assurance Lead Jennifer Keenan

    Sound FX & Additional Music Ben Houge

    Additional help from: Al Eufrasio John Shroades Layne Gifford Mark Martino Mikhail Agadzhanov Rob Kenny Steve Conrad William O’Brien

    Additional Credits

    Voice Director Roberta Williams Mark Seibert

    Voice Casting Roberta Williams Mark Seibert

    Voice Auditions VoiceCaster Burbank, CA

    Voice Recording Hollywood Recording Services

    Voice Recording Engineer Mark Howlett

    DREAMS Software Specialist Ben Houge

    Original Music Composed & Performed By Kevin Manthei Ben Houge Mark Seibert

    Opening, Closing and Flight to Temple Movies Digital Post Graphics Seattle, WA 39

    Packaging Dan Amdur Jim Veevert

    Documentation Mark Seibert Cheryl Sweeney Roberta Williams

    Quality Assurance Manager: Gary Stevens

    Assistant Manager: Ken Eaton

    Lead: Bernadette Pryor

    Engineer: Erinn Hamilton

    PC Technician: Pat Callahan

    Compatibility: Byron Hummel

    Analysts: Ishmael Burns, Julie Bazuzi, Marc Nagel, Kate Powell, Noel Prude

    Beta Testers Kate Ashley, Chris Canavan, Alan Chan, Lars Christen, Robert Glover, Mark Goodman, Chris Kateff, Geoff Keighley, Noah Koontz, Linda Lindley, Wes Litt, Tom Marley, Sherry Marshall, Steve Martin, Jeff Miller, Michael O’Brien, Michael Piontek, Della Rodgers, Mike Shavelson, Charles Solen, Corey Vanderlaan, Robin Ward, Stuart Young Special Thanks To Mark Hood, Scott Lynch, Jim Murphy, Zippy the Incredibly Inflatable Spitting Wonder Llama, The World Famous Talking Bear, --and all the moms, dads, husbands, wives, girlfriends, boy friends, & significant others without whom this game would have been completed months earlier.
  • Is Ernie Chan mentioned on KQV art credits the same Ernie Chan who did a notable career drawing Conan and other comic books?
  • tomimt;614590 said:
    Is Ernie Chan mentioned on KQV art credits the same Ernie Chan who did a notable career drawing Conan and other comic books?
    Yes, it is. I believe he just died recently.

  • BagginsKQ;611831 said:
    No to fan groups getting the game.... no more black cloak conspiracies, thank you.

    No to cancelling... Having another KQ to play should be fun or at least entertaining (if it turns out to be more like a movie than a game)... Even if it pales to the originals...

    I don't get the 'stay dead' mentality. It shouldn't matter what comes out to those crowd, because it should still be considered 'dead' to them if the new one doesn't turn out the way they want it... they still have the old ones to play.

    Agreed with the fan notion. As much as I am grateful for the fans to revive the KQ series, the games aren't as good as the SQ fan games. I think it is harder for fans to do a fan KQ game as oppose to an SQ one since the KQ fans do not grasp the tone of the official KQ games. The fan games aren't as good since they could not balance the serious dark aspects of the KQ elements with the light-hearted elements - the fan games tend to be too dark.

    I think what makes KQ KQ are the light hearted elements. If a fan group approaches the series like a satrical fairy tale story like Shrek, it would be more in line with the KQ games. The SQ fans get SQ since I believe SQ stayed mostly consistent throughout its original run despite its change in humor in part 5 and 6.
  • I'm curious, how do you feel about IA's KQ3 remake (as opposed to AGDI's KQ3Redux)?
  • Never liked IA's Alexander.
  • MusicallyInspired;615346 said:
    I'm curious, how do you feel about IA's KQ3 remake (as opposed to AGDI's KQ3Redux)?
    I actually like it since it stayed faithful to the original game. However, I didn't like the sprites and character animation for Alexander. I understand that the game is getting a major face lift with a better Alexander sprite in version 3. Strangely enough, I also like the AGDI version; I like the added journal subplot, though the Father reference was a bit of a turnoff - I understand why they added him in the AGDI remake. I thought the Medusa subplot was a bit silly - I understand why they added it, however.

    When I meant KQ fangames, I meant TSL and AGDI's KQ 2 - the games that tried to rewrite the KQ mythology. The three other remakes are good, however.

    Making new KQ fangames is fine as long as the games try to stay faithful to the original source. Not kissing butt (I know that you are part of the IA team,) but I like how IA handles the fangames since the team compliments the original source as oppose to retconning it. I think creating a Kingdom of Sorrow game based on the novel is a great idea since I assume it would stay faithful to the original source material.

    I was talking to Baggins via PM on why I think the SQ fangames are better than the KQ fangames. I believe the SQ fangames are better because for the most part, they compliment the existing SQ canon. TSL and the second AGDI KQ games, on the other hand, tries to rewrite the game's mythos.
  • doom saber;615374 said:
    Not kissing butt (I know that you are part of the IA team,)
    MI also did the music for AGDI's KQ3.
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