So, how are you raising Clementine? [Spoilers]

edited October 2012 in The Walking Dead
I didn't see a thread that asked this question, so I now ask it myself...

Personally, I'm going for a über-good Clem, who has an excellent moral compass, and who sees my Lee as someone that never steals or jabs people with pitchforks - admittedly, that means she's not very pragmatic, but at least I'm not a monster in her eyes.

I changed my mind after doing some thinking (that thinking being influenced by some of the posts here) and rerolled my game completely - ultimately, the only changes that affected Clem was my choice to steal from the car. It hurt to do it but I decided that she needs to learn that survival comes before anything else. However I also tried to instill in her other good values - I spared the brothers, tried to save Larry, etc...

So, basically, what choices did you make concerning Clem/when she was present? Also, what word did you teach her in the barn? I taught her manure, like a responsible father-figure (with a badass voice) :D
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Comments

  • edited July 2012
    Episode 2 settled it. No more bubble around Clem.
    I promised Clementine to protect her from the dangerous ones, zombies and humans. And so i did. I kept my promised and whacked both brothers, in addition i made sure they would not get away and come back to kill us later.
    And i will continue to do so.
    But of course, give people a chanse, dont kill on sight.
    And dont steal if you know something belongs to someone else.
    The abandoned car? We took it all. We needed it. We could have left a note for the people who owned the car, but that wasnt an option.
  • edited July 2012
    I thought I would try and shut out the zombies, but the saint johns convinced me the people left behind are not much better than the walkers.

    But i still wanted to raise her up to be nice and keep her humanity, so i left the saint johns to be eaten and didnt steal from the car. Things should only be taken if the owners are dead. I wouldnt be able to live with the guilt after taking the possesions from the car.
  • edited July 2012
    It seems that both of you originally put a bubble around Clementine to block out the bad stuff (well, from what Lars says I assume he did) and then later burst that bubble after encountering Danny and Andy. Was the change sudden, a quick descision to harden Clem in regards to the horrors of the world, or was it more gradual, with you slowly doubting in your method or choices with her? I'm sorry if this is annoying, but I'm curious as to people's motives...
  • edited July 2012
    Being 100% honest with Clem is paramount to me. The world may go to shit at any given moment, but at least she can always completely trust me and everything I tell her, even if it's a grim truth.

    I'm trying to strike a balance between practical survival and morality in making tough decisions, which we all know isn't easy. To that end, so far I didn't shoot the crazy lady, tried to save Larry, killed both the brothers and reluctantly looted the car.

    I think Colonel Kurtz summed it up best in 'Apocalypse Now';
    "In a war there are many moments for compassion and tender action. There are many moments for ruthless action - what is often called ruthless - what may in many circumstances be only clarity, seeing clearly what there is to be done and doing it, directly, quickly, awake, looking at it."

    Also, I taught Clem to say "shit" in the barn on my first playthrough and immediately regretted it. :D On my second playthrough I taught her "manure" instead. Hey, I'm still new to this whole 'parental relationship' thing too!
  • edited July 2012
    sort of a mix of pragmatic and bubble

    if i can avoid killing in front of her i do but as in the case of larry i only kill if it is the only choice open..

    also i am honest with her and if she doesn't like stuff lee does i reason with her and justify lee actions like stealing from the car..
  • edited July 2012
    I've taken the approach of protecting her, trying to give her some hope and setting an example, in that order. When it came to the food in the car I was never going to let her go hungry at the cost of my principles.
  • edited July 2012
    I get this sinking feeling that...
    A lot of peoples Clem-Clem's are gonna die in episode 5.
    Think about it people, this isn't the kind of game to let you have your Cake and Eat it Too.

    (I chose Pragmatic/Tough Survivor)
  • edited July 2012
    I get this sinking feeling that...
    A lot of peoples Clem-Clem's are gonna die in episode 5.
    Think about it people, this isn't the kind of game to let you have your Cake and Eat it Too.

    (I chose Pragmatic/Tough Survivor)

    So, you think it'll be a case of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory (to warp a folk saying) ?
    If that does go down, TellTale will most likely get slammed and grown men and women will weep in the street - particularily those Knights...
  • edited July 2012
    yes but we will then march on the ttg offices and demand a 'dream sequence' to revive our queen and if not the path we must take to save her if it exists...
  • edited July 2012
    So, you think it'll be a case of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory (to warp a folk saying) ?
    If that does go down, TellTale will most likely get slammed and grown men and women will weep in the street - particularily those Knights...
    yes but we will then march on the ttg offices and demand a 'dream sequence' to revive our queen and if not the path we must take to save her if it exists...

    Well then, maybe those Knights should have raised her to be a survivor. It's what a true Knight does: Everything to protect the crown.
    Even if it means being cold, direct, and pragmatic. If they can't handle the tough love approach, then they should drop their arms.

    (I can't believe I just indulged this sick in joke. XD)
  • edited July 2012
    I'm teaching Clem to still retain her personality and have a "bubble" around her. Episode 2 still didn't convince me that Clem should be treated a different way.
  • edited July 2012
    which most of us knights are doing but what i mean't was if we some how fail to save her i'd like ttg or some guide writers do make a step by step guide to saving clem IF it is possible or is her death actually unavoidable..
  • edited July 2012
    Pragmatic but moral. I had no problem killing the St. John brothers but opted not to steal from the car. For all the good it did as it was picked clean anyway.
  • edited July 2012
    Moral approach, but her safety is at the utmost top of the priority list. If that includes doing something that goes against the moral approach, so be it.

    That's why I did take the food from the car. We need it badly. She needs it badly. I haven't killed anyone I didn't have to tho.
  • edited July 2012
    Augurk wrote: »
    Moral approach, but her safety is at the utmost top of the priority list. If that includes doing something that goes against the moral approach, so be it.

    That's why I did take the food from the car. We need it badly. She needs it badly. I haven't killed anyone I didn't have to tho.

    I did not take the food and supplies from the car. I figured that me, Clem, and Lilly would be better off with the extra rations we had in the motor inn.
  • edited July 2012
    I told her that I know what the barn smells like and she chose to say doody which seemed age appropriate so I stuck with that. I told her I would help her find her hat and gave her 1/2 an apple. I reassured her where possible without deleberately lying to her. I fixed the swing for her to play on and pushed her on the swing. I gave her back her hat. I stopped her from eating the ST John's meal. I chose not to kill Larry in front of her cause I wanted to protect her from further acts of violence. I didn't kill Danny with the pitch fork which she seemed to appreciate. I beat Andy to a pulp until Carly stopped me then I walked away leaving him to the walkers after telling him his brother and mother were dead. On my second play through I didn't take the food from the car since she was adament that she wouldn't eat it any way because of her principles and seemed unhappy when I took the stuff from the car in my first play through. I was suprised when she held my hand after I told the group that Clem and I wouldn't take the food and the rest of the group could help themselves. It was touching moment that showed the development of their relationship. She is approving of Lee's behavior and trusting him as a carer and she is still alive in the next episode without taking the food and top so that seemed like the best way to go. There didn't seem to be a down side.

    When I looted the car on my first play through I convinced her that it was o.k to take the sweater because we didn't harm anyone to get it so we were not like the bandits. So she will be warmer but she still chose not to eat the food raided by the rest of the group and she didn't hold my hand. I thought the other scenario was more dramatic and a more emotional ending to the chapter.
  • edited July 2012
    dee23 wrote: »
    There didn't seem to be a down side.

    Until Episode 5, when your choices determine whether or not Clem-Clem survives. (If you were Moral, she dies being the kid she was, if you were pragmatic she lives but dies a little inside.).. It'd be the perfect way to end the season.
  • edited July 2012
    I'm raising her Pragmatic and Bubble when i can i tell her that this might pass and the world will get better but sometimes i have to tell her that we have to do that in order to survive, like with the car i had to get the food and the other supplies because it will help us survive, and i told her that we weren't bandits we didn't hurt anyone to get that... so i'm trying to be a good guy but at the same time i'm trying to survive... I told her that i was going to take care of that, i made her leave her house so the least i can do is keep her well fed and in safety...

    Lets see what the future as to offer :D... Great Episode 1 and even better Episode 2 BTW...
  • edited July 2012
    I tried to keep her shielded as much as possible in the first Episode, but by the second episode I'm convinced that's no longer a viable option, atleast over the long haul. So I've started to switch gears to pragmatic, e.g. I'll still give her hope that things'll get better, but she needs to know how to survive. Basically, as the saying goes: survival sucks, I want to do more than just survive, I want to live.

    I didn't kill the brothers, but that wasn't due to morality. By the time the second brother was taken care of, the family wasn't a threat anymore, and I figured with the state of the place, they'd be overrun by Walkers (what with the shooting) or killed by the bandits anyway, extending our stay in the area after the commotion just for the sake of exacting revenge felt like a bad idea.

    I did however steal from the car. Our group was starving (all Clem-Clem had to eat the whole day was half an apple). Sucks to be the owner (if they're alive), but her well-being comes first.

    Ultimately though, as Lee says, "I can't leave her alone" with the state of the world being what it is. Hopefully she picks up on the nuance of what's needed to live, while still having the ability to discern right from wrong when/if I'm no longer in the picture. If I get the feeling the waters are getting muddied there, morality's getting dropped from the class curriculum.
  • edited July 2012
    To clarify, the Bubble method of raising Clem means never being direct, and painting a lovey-dovey picture of the world. It's sort of a middle ground between a Moral Clementine and a Bag-of-Hammers/Duck-like view of the world...

    As it is, I'm loving the variety here (and sounding a bit like sisterofshane from that choices thread) , and I'm noticing that most people want their Clem to be moral. I also can understand wanting Clem to be a survivor - it's practical and looks to the future when/if Lee is gone. I don't entirely understand people still keeping a bubble around her after the St. Johns, but each to their own. What about the person that thought Clem was Walker bait? Why did you choose that option? Are you worried she'll slow you down or get in the way at a crucial moment?
  • edited July 2012
    To clarify, the Bubble method of raising Clem means never being direct, and painting a lovey-dovey picture of the world. It's sort of a middle ground between a Moral Clementine and a Bag-of-Hammers/Duck-like view of the world...

    As it is, I'm loving the variety here (and sounding a bit like sisterofshane from that choices thread) , and I'm noticing that most people want their Clem to be moral. I also can understand wanting Clem to be a survivor - it's practical and looks to the future when/if Lee is gone. I don't entirely understand people still keeping a bubble around her after the St. Johns, but each to their own. What about the person that thought Clem was Walker bait? Why did you choose that option? Are you worried she'll slow you down or get in the way at a crucial moment?

    Probably just a troll from the "Clementine is stupid?" thread. (Was that the name of it?)
  • edited July 2012
    Probably just a troll from the "Clementine is stupid?" thread. (Was that the name of it?)

    It's ironic, cause I was just just reading that thread ("Clementine Not So Smart?") :P
    It's actually listed as being similar to this one D:
  • edited July 2012
    Am I the only one that's been raising her with the Long Term in mind?.. Based on the Comics, which the Games' REALLY trying to keep true to, I don't see this having a happy ending... The way I see it, so far only 8 Peoples Clem-Clem's are gonna survive this, with 27 getting the Chomp.
  • edited July 2012
    Am I the only one that's been raising her with the Long Term in mind?

    Nope, you're one of 8 :P
    Me, I'm using Clementine as a substitute for a real daughter - when I'm a bit older decide to have kids, hopefully I'll do a good job. That and the fact I want to preserve a bit of innocence in Clementine, while also being honest about the whole Apocalypse thing. As I said in my first post, it's not practical - I'm more emotionally driven (like Kenny, as I'm ashamed to admit. He made a tough, pragmatic choice, however, even if I couldn't bring myself to do it) .

    Regardless, thanks for your opinion, Death689 :)
  • edited July 2012
    Nope, you're one of 8 :P
    Me, I'm using Clementine as a substitute for a real daughter - when I'm a bit older decide to have kids, hopefully I'll do a good job. That and the fact I want to preserve a bit of innocence in Clementine, while also being honest about the whole Apocalypse thing. As I said in my first post, it's not practical - I'm more emotionally driven (like Kenny, as I'm ashamed to admit. He made a tough, pragmatic choice, however, even if I couldn't bring myself to do it) .

    Regardless, thanks for your opinion, Death689 :)

    I'm treating her like my own daughter too, but still. I guess I'm one of those: "Better alive than Zombie Chow" parents. XD ;)
  • edited July 2012
    Protecting Clem so much if lee becomes a walker he'll eat the people trying to harm her instead of her
  • edited July 2012
    CapnJay wrote: »
    Protecting Clem so much if lee becomes a walker he'll eat the people trying to harm her instead of her

    I don't think he'd be smart enough - it would take a while to evolve to that stage (there's that leader zombie in Land of the Dead, and the zombies in TWD are basically Romero zombies too - albeit in a world where the Godfather of All Zombies was never born) .
  • edited July 2012
    which is why lee will become the first
  • edited July 2012
    CapnJay wrote: »
    which is why lee will become the first

    But Lee's... urban...
  • edited July 2012
    so was the land of the dead zombie leader
  • edited July 2012
    CapnJay wrote: »
    so was the land of the dead zombie leader

    I have learnt that his name is Big Daddy, and that he started a zombilution...
  • edited July 2012
    I have learnt that his name is Big Daddy, and that he started a zombilution...

    Are you talking about Alpha?
  • edited July 2012
    Topic derailment much?
  • edited July 2012
    Clementine is being raised well
  • edited July 2012
    *imagines Clem being raised by walkers*
    NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  • edited July 2012
    Topic derailment much?

    Is that all you got? You fight like a dairy farmer! :P
  • edited July 2012
    Is that all you got? You fight like a dairy farmer! :P

    *Stabs you in the chest with a Pitch Fork*
  • edited July 2012
    Clementine watched you kill Danny
  • edited July 2012
    *Stabs you in the chest with a Pitch Fork*

    The meat'll be tainted... Andeeurgh.... *death*
  • edited July 2012
    Am I the only one that's been raising her with the Long Term in mind?.. Based on the Comics, which the Games' REALLY trying to keep true to, I don't see this having a happy ending... The way I see it, so far only 8 Peoples Clem-Clem's are gonna survive this, with 27 getting the Chomp.

    In fairness, I don't see moral/pragmatic as necessarily being mutually exclusive, except in certain scenarios (e.g. the decision to steal from the car or not, in which case morals lose). Understanding right/wrong is likely to be important if she needs to integrate herself into a "good" group of fellow survivors, i.e. a group that doesn't rape or shoot eat other in the face (bandits, I'm looking at you).

    I'd best describe my instruction as "do whatever you need to stay alive, then whatever you can to be decent". But, like I said, first indication the waters are getting muddied in that regard, morals are getting dropped from the curriculum.

    The only real option I see being unworkable is the "bubble" option. It's no longer really feasible to try and pretend the world hasn't gone to hell (particularly after Ep. 2), and it leaves her woefully unprepared for life going forward, especially when/if Lee's gone.
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