Telltale Autumn Sale

TTG really messed up the Kenny/Lee dynamic

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Comments

  • edited October 2012
    Rock114 wrote: »
    False. I refused to steal the food from the car in Episode 2 and shot the girl in Episode 3. By shooting the girl, I put him directly in danger and he STILL came back to save me from the door. I pretty much assaulted him through everything up until I talked him down on the train, and even kept saying how we needed to take care of Duck, and even through all that he STILL gave me the "You're my friend, I have your back no matter what" speech at the end of 4. It's just the really big things you ahve to side with him on apparently, and I think he was right on everything but killing Ben.

    I mean, not EVERYTHING. Most of the most noticeable ones.
  • edited October 2012
    dubesor wrote: »
    I think you are being irrational here. I too didn't help kill Larry. That's not the deciding factor. Kenny still said I always had his back when it mattered and comes freely. There are for SURE several other occasions where you disagreed with him. I disagreed with him like 3 or 4 times but still he comes with me. And yes even tho I refused to kill Larry.

    Same here. I tried to revive Larry, I shot the girl in the street, I got into a fistfight with him on the train, I even told him off a few times. But I also always helped Duck (including putting him down), I helped Kenny face his fears in the attic and I dropped Ben. Apparently this was enough to get the "You've always had my back when it mattered" speech.

    It's not Telltale's fault. Your relationship with Kenny is a lot more nuanced than you realize.
  • edited October 2012
    Viser wrote: »
    . for instance, when you try to reason with Larry, Kenny sees it as going against him. Thought that was pretty obvious. To Kenny, you're either with him, or against him.

    so how much sense does it make that if i agree with larry, and go against kenny every time (except for the larry incident), kenny is still "my buddy"

    however, if i agree with him on everything except the larry incident, he hates my guts. really, TTG? who behaves like this in the real world>
  • edited October 2012
    dubesor wrote: »
    I think you are being irrational here. I too didn't help kill Larry. That's not the deciding factor. Kenny still said I always had his back when it mattered and comes freely. There are for SURE several other occasions where you disagreed with him. I disagreed with him like 3 or 4 times but still he comes with me. And yes even tho I refused to kill Larry.

    nope, i agreed with kenny on EVERYTHING except killing larry.
  • edited October 2012
    marcu5 wrote: »
    nope, i agreed with kenny on EVERYTHING except killing larry.

    Then you've probably got a glitch. Or you made some decisions that you didn't realize were decisions. It takes more than the Larry incident to make Kenny go against you.
  • edited October 2012
    maybe kenny looks at the Larry meat locker situation as a defining moment as to whether you (LEE) has what it takes to survive and then after that he either believes "you are going to die and its just matter of time" or you "have what it takes to survive" and if he believes you have what it takes you are a good person to help because it will be worth it, but otherwise you are just gonna get him killed
  • KaeKae
    edited October 2012
    I actually think someone mentioned in here that due to the way Telltale decided to handle an early choice (i.e. the "Reason with him" one) that a lot of people thought that meant "Reason with (the bad guys)" and instead it came out as "Reason with Kenny" (about letting someone kill Duck). Don't get me wrong, I love this game, but that one misfire about the way they handled a choice has always had me wondering about my other choices involving Kenny. Is it really because of my poor choice that Kenny is berating me right now, or was it just phrased strangely, like that first one, and that's why Kenny is acting like a douchebro right now?

    It's a little frustrating. Some of the things I think Kenny would appreciate me agreeing with him on, he acts upset by, and vice versa. It frequently feels like he doesn't make a lot of sense.

    I actually agreed with Kenny on almost everything (I didn't kill Larry) and he complained about how I never had his back pretty much the entire rest of the game. Mind you, at the end there, I just told him Clem was my family, and he melted like butter and came with me. I like Kenny, for some strange reason. He seems like a high-strung, but nice guy. I just feel like I'm not "playing him" right, if that makes sense.
  • edited October 2012
    maybe kenny looks at the Larry meat locker situation as a defining moment as to whether you (LEE) has what it takes to survive and then after that he either believes "you are going to die and its just matter of time" or you "have what it takes to survive" and if he believes you have what it takes you are a good person to help because it will be worth it, but otherwise you are just gonna get him killed

    more apologist bullcrap. it's just poor writing, acknowledge it so they will do better on season 2

    keep pacifying TTG and they'll believe there's no reason to change their formula.
  • edited October 2012
    Kenny was a cool character up until Kat and Duck died. Understandable though, it'd be very traumatic.

    I sided with him on most things before that, he was nice to me and I remember him saying a few things that thankful for things I'd done. But it's once he beats you up on the train, things turn sour after that. He tries to talk with you shortly after(whether or not he was going to bring up the fight or thank you for being his friend but was too pissed, I don't know) but before he speaks he cuts himself off.

    I'd like to see a scene where Kenny is dying and Lee and Kenny have a "bro" moment.
  • edited October 2012
    marcu5 wrote: »
    more apologist bullcrap. it's just poor writing, acknowledge it so they will do better on season 2

    keep pacifying TTG and they'll believe there's no reason to change their formula.

    Just because it's not how you would create a character doesn't mean that Telltale's writing isn't valid or realistic.

    Kenny is a believable character and that's the main point.
  • edited October 2012
    Icedhope wrote: »
    I agree with this to a point. I picked it out from the beginning Kenny was going to be a douche. He is selfish and will find any reason to hate you if you against his plan, and there have been quite a few examples.

    *The fight with Larry in Episode 1.
    *The How apprehensive he is during certain situations.

    It makes sense Kenny doesn't want to help anyone unless it benefits him in someway.

    Agreed.He is selfish!Always talking about leaving with his family,always not caring about anyone else.Always getting angry if you just don't agree with him on everything.Always nagging!
  • edited October 2012
    Just because it's not how you would create a character doesn't mean that Telltale's writing isn't valid or realistic.

    Kenny is a believable character and that's the main point.

    totally believable
    marcu5 wrote: »
    more apologist bullcrap. it's just poor writing, acknowledge it so they will do better on season 2

    keep pacifying TTG and they'll believe there's no reason to change their formula.

    the meat locker scene was a defining moment in the game for me, why not for kenny?
  • edited October 2012
    Porr wrote: »
    Kenny was a cool character up until Kat and Duck died. Understandable though, it'd be very traumatic.

    I sided with him on most things before that, he was nice to me and I remember him saying a few things that thankful for things I'd done. But it's once he beats you up on the train, things turn sour after that. He tries to talk with you shortly after(whether or not he was going to bring up the fight or thank you for being his friend but was too pissed, I don't know) but before he speaks he cuts himself off.

    I'd like to see a scene where Kenny is dying and Lee and Kenny have a "bro" moment.

    He beat you up? Aim for his fists dude and take him down like Bruce Lee. And if you talk him down (like I did) it just gets more emotional (for me, at least) when he says that he still beats himself up about letting Shawn die. That part, and then him losing his family really made me feel for him. He becomes an asshole no matter what in 4 (understandable, since 4 takes place only about a day after Kat and Duck die), but he still treatedee like a friend since in my game I sided with him up until then (mostly).
  • edited October 2012


    the meat locker scene was a defining moment in the game for me, why not for kenny?

    defining moment for what? loyalty? so if you were kenny, what would piss you off more. threatening to throw your kids out to the zombies because i believe he's been bitten. or agreeing to try CPR on an unconscious man? because if it's the latter, you're a very fickle person.


    i still can't believe TTG didn't give us an option to call kenny out on his hypocrisy with duck. if the game were truly tailored to my choices, i would have been able to suddenly kill duck w/o either of their permission. THEN kenny would have a reason to hold a damn grudge.
  • edited October 2012
    marcu5 wrote: »
    defining moment for what? loyalty? so if you were kenny, what would piss you off more. threatening to throw your kids out to the zombies because i believe he's been bitten. or agreeing to try CPR on an unconscious man? because if it's the latter, you're a very fickle person.


    i still can't believe TTG didn't give us an option to call kenny out on his hypocrisy with duck. if the game were truly tailored to my choices, i would have been able to suddenly kill duck w/o either of their permission. THEN kenny would have a reason to hold a damn grudge.

    a defining moment for your/Lee's relationship with kenny and lilly and also how lee treats a situation like that, and you cant really be all for throwing duck out, and larry could have killed all of the people in the meat locker.

    you can tell kenny off and beat him up, and really the ability to kill anybody suddenly is a bit far fetched
  • edited October 2012
    a defining moment for your/Lee's relationship with kenny and lilly and also how lee treats a situation like that.

    you can tell kenny off and beat him up, and really the ability to kill anybody suddenly is a bit far fetched

    You save his wife and kids immediately afterwards and even if you had his back the whole time he's still mad at you the next ep. Doesn't make since.
  • edited October 2012
    trd84 wrote: »
    You save his wife and kids immediately afterwards and even if you had his back the whole time he's still mad at you the next ep. Doesn't make since.

    but you only did that because kenny saved your life in the meat locker, because he was the only one that would do anything about the situation (kenny point of view)
  • edited October 2012
    I gotta be honest, man, if I was trapped in a meat locker with somebody and got into an argument over whether or not to crush the head of a man who may or may not turn into a zombie and eat us all ...yeah, that would be the kind of situation that would define my opinion of him forever. I hold grudges against people for things that happened years ago that were so small I barely remember what they are. The meat locker scene was an extreme situation. As extreme as you can get. Why wouldn't it define how Kenny feels about you?
  • edited October 2012
    but you only did that because kenny saved your life in the meat locker, because he was the only one that would do anything about the situation (kenny point of view)

    Saved his kid twice, saved his wife, stood up to Larry, Was on Kenny's side in all the arguments, fed him and his son, and not killing a guy made kenny mad at me for weeks. Even when I was still agreeing with him and being nice he would say sarcastic things back to me.
  • edited October 2012
    I gotta be honest, man, if I was trapped in a meat locker with somebody and got into an argument over whether or not to crush the head of a man who may or may not turn into a zombie and eat us all ...yeah, that would be the kind of situation that would define my opinion of him forever. I hold grudges against people for things that happened years ago that were so small I barely remember what they are. The meat locker scene was an extreme situation. As extreme as you can get. Why wouldn't it define how Kenny feels about you?

    I didn't even argue with him really, I said what do we do now. Then saved his family. Then was still on his side.
  • edited October 2012
    but you only did that because kenny saved your life in the meat locker, because he was the only one that would do anything about the situation (kenny point of view)

    that doesnt make any sense, save my life? pfft. he shattered lillys life and started the downward spiral of the group.
  • edited October 2012
    I gotta be honest, man, if I was trapped in a meat locker with somebody and got into an argument over whether or not to crush the head of a man who may or may not turn into a zombie and eat us all ...yeah, that would be the kind of situation that would define my opinion of him forever. I hold grudges against people for things that happened years ago that were so small I barely remember what they are. The meat locker scene was an extreme situation. As extreme as you can get. Why wouldn't it define how Kenny feels about you?

    because as trd pointed out, i saved his families life right after. hell, they would have all been eaten if it werent for lee. you save his life in the beginning of the last episode and hes still a dick
  • K0t0K0t0 Banned
    edited October 2012
    No y'all dont understand. We have nothing against a rocky relationship between Lee and Ken. Heck, the idea of that one decision eating away at their minds involving Larry is interesting, hes your main man but you two cant fully trust each other.

    BUT it WASNT that, Kenny IS being irrational due to shoddy writing. As TC said, "Keeping score" implies that you pulled one over Kenny several times. Kenny even called us 'Selfish and only looking out for yourself" despite giving away all 4 pieces of food and everything. You cant defend that.
  • edited October 2012
    K0t0 wrote: »
    No y'all dont understand. We have nothing against a rocky relationship between Lee and Ken. Heck, the idea of that one decision eating away at their minds involving Larry is interesting, hes your main man but you two cant fully trust each other.

    BUT it WASNT that, Kenny IS being irrational due to shoddy writing. As TC said, "Keeping score" implies that you pulled one over Kenny several times. Kenny even called us 'Selfish and only looking out for yourself" despite giving away all 4 pieces of food and everything. You cant defend that.

    maybe you should tell kenny all about your great sacrifice of giving away food and if he was written well he would give you a big hug and tell you that your friendship makes up for him having the worst month of his life ever and loosing everything
  • edited October 2012
    I thnk they tryed turning Kenny from the family man into the group crazy and things went a little wrong, like when he called me selfish and I dont not help anyone but that saying Kat liked me and I looked after her and Duck?
  • edited October 2012
    marcu5 wrote: »
    nope, i agreed with kenny on EVERYTHING except killing larry.
    So...
    • You sided against Lily in every argument?
    • You gave the food to the kids in Episode 2?
    • You stole the food from the car in Episode 2?
    • You left the lady to die in Episode 3?
    • You told Kenny the truth about Lee's past?
    • You tried to save Duck over Shawn?
    • You were all for leaving the motel?
    • You demonstrated yourself to be a good family man?
    • You shot the starved kid?
    • You dropped Ben in your game?
    • You showed Lee's bite to Kenny?

    ...And so on. I'm probably missing a whole bunch of choices here, but the point is - if you did ALL of that, and the only time Kenny was annoyed at you was when you wouldn't kill Larry, then that simply sounds like a bug.
    It really doesn't sound intentional.
  • edited October 2012
    Has anyone had Kenny refuse to help them, even if they choose "Clem's my Family"?
  • edited October 2012
    FarmerJoe wrote: »
    Has anyone had Kenny refuse to help them, even if they choose "Clem's my Family"?

    Not yet, even when I did an anti Kenny in every way playthrough?
  • edited October 2012
    Not yet, even when I did an anti Kenny in every way playthrough?

    What did yo do with Duck? didn't feed him,didn't give him water/animal crackers and who shot him.

    I'm starting to suspect that the "Clem's my family" option may be a "get out of jail free card" for those who like Kenny but didn't agree with him fully.
    Does helping or ignoring Duck and Katjaa even matter for that option?
    I suspect that a lot of those who had a problem with Kenny at least helped his family.
  • edited October 2012
    FarmerJoe wrote: »
    What did yo do with Duck? didn't feed him,didn't give him water/animal crackers and who shot him.

    I'm starting to suspect that the "Clem's my family" option may be a "get out of jail free card" for those who like Kenny but didn't agree with him fully.
    Does helping or ignoring Duck and Katjaa even matter for that option?
    I suspect that a lot of those who had a problem with Kenny at least helped his family.

    I've seen some people on the forum say they picked that option and Kenny said "Oh, you wanna talk to me about family?!" or something like that, probably happens if you neglect Duck. But yeah, that's an alternative way to get Kenny to come with you if he doesn't like you but you were still nice to Duck and Katjaa.
  • edited October 2012
    FarmerJoe wrote: »
    What did yo do with Duck? didn't feed him,didn't give him water/animal crackers and who shot him.

    I'm starting to suspect that the "Clem's my family" option may be a "get out of jail free card" for those who like Kenny but didn't agree with him fully.
    Does helping or ignoring Duck and Katjaa even matter for that option?
    I suspect that a lot of those who had a problem with Kenny at least helped his family.

    -saved shawn
    -didn't feed him ep 3
    -left him semi alive in the woods

    I was nice to Kat though so that may have something to do with it?
  • edited October 2012
    So...
    • You sided against Lily in every argument?
    • You gave the food to the kids in Episode 2?
    • You stole the food from the car in Episode 2?
    • You left the lady to die in Episode 3?
    • You told Kenny the truth about Lee's past?
    • You tried to save Duck over Shawn?
    • You were all for leaving the motel?
    • You demonstrated yourself to be a good family man?
    • You shot the starved kid?
    • You dropped Ben in your game?
    • You showed Lee's bite to Kenny?

    ...And so on. I'm probably missing a whole bunch of choices here, but the point is - if you did ALL of that, and the only time Kenny was annoyed at you was when you wouldn't kill Larry, then that simply sounds like a bug.
    It really doesn't sound intentional.

    i have 1 playthrough where i disagreed with kenny on everything except the larry incident, and he's cool with me.

    1 playthrough where i've agreed with him on everything except the larry incident, and he hates me.

    1 playthrough where i disagree/agree according to the choices, didn't bash larrys head in, kenny still hates me.
  • edited October 2012
    So you have to smash someone's head with a saltlick in order to be loved by your friend? :p
  • edited October 2012
    marcu5 wrote: »
    i have 1 playthrough where i disagreed with kenny on everything except the larry incident, and he's cool with me.

    1 playthrough where i've agreed with him on everything except the larry incident, and he hates me.

    1 playthrough where i disagree/agree according to the choices, didn't bash larrys head in, kenny still hates me.

    did you tell kenny and katjaa that the pharmacy was owned by your family, not only does that make kenny and katjaa trust you more because you were honest, it probably makes kenny know that you are having a similar bad time as him so he would feel more familiar with you
  • edited October 2012
    did you tell kenny and katjaa that the pharmacy was owned by your family, not only does that make kenny and katjaa trust you more because you were honest, it probably makes kenny know that you are having a similar bad time as him so he would feel more familiar with you

    yes, they know my family owned the pharmacy, i confessed about being a killer before lilly could out me, and i told the group i was bit. i did lie about who clem was to me in my first playthrough, but after losing all my data after episode 2.(a problem that TTG still hasn't fixed) i ran it completely honest.
  • edited October 2012
    Foinikas wrote: »
    So you have to smash someone's head with a saltlick in order to be loved by your friend? :p

    lol, i know right
  • edited October 2012
    marcu5 wrote: »
    yes, they know my family owned the pharmacy, i confessed about being a killer before lilly could out me, and i told the group i was bit. i did lie about who clem was to me in my first playthrough, but after losing all my data after episode 2.(a problem that TTG still hasn't fixed) i ran it completely honest.

    i dont know what i could be, what about after he smashed larrys skull, what did you say about it, i dont think any of the dialogue are that good at being cool about what he did, i cant remember all the dialogue chouces but it think the least mad at kenny was the "you're no hero" type response, it's getting very complex to find exactly the causes of things now, and they said some can be subtle, but i don't think they made only one choice matter (in terms of kenny liking/hating you) but i do think some matter more than others
  • edited October 2012
    i dont know what i could be, what about after he smashed larrys skull, what did you say about it, i dont think any of the dialogue are that good at being cool about what he did, i cant remember all the dialogue chouces but it think the least mad at kenny was the "you're no hero" type response, it's getting very complex to find exactly the causes of things now, and they said some can be subtle, but i don't think they made only one choice matter (in terms of kenny liking/hating you) but i do think some matter more than others

    it doesn't matter how you respond to him after you decide to choose lilly. all of lee's responses are negative, even the silent response.
  • edited October 2012
    marcu5 wrote: »
    it doesn't matter how you respond to him after you decide to choose lilly. all of lee's responses are negative, even the silent response.

    but some are more negative than others so it could matter
  • edited October 2012
    I think people underestimate the Larry decision.

    If you side with Lilly in the meat locker, you risk Duck and Katjaa getting eaten alive by cannibals and getting slowly cut to pieces. Larry's death is nothing compared to that torture. You also risk Kenny (and everyone else's life's). All this for one old bastard who might be dead and who punched you into a room full of walkers after you got him his heart medicine. It's pretty clear why making the wrong choice in the meat locked turns Kenny against you.

    But I have heard people say that they went will Lilly in the locker and still ended up as friends with Kenny.
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