Would you like a wider range of sexual identities in The Walking Dead?

I strongly praise the game for having a wider range of people of difference races without stereotyping them. (Urban joke aside.) But I always wondered if they would or ever would put difference sexual identities in the game.

The cast seems no stranger to homosexuality or transgenders given the one line by Larry in episode one well Lee,Larry and Kenny argue about Duck, if Lee says to sit down he will say that..

"You and what homo parade?"
This might deem Larry homophobic but let's stay on topic here.

Since telltale never seemed to used racist stereotypes were developing the cast of the game if they were to created a gay,lesbian, bisexual or even transgender I doubt they would use the stereotypes like all gay men are "Fabulous" and like fashion, or all lesbians have short hair and dress manly (Yes I did fun the lesbian joke in the tv show funny though , Just because of Axel's stupidity there.)

Now most the the gay, lesbian etc things we see in this fandom are crack (Meaning pairings that never happen but people ship them anyway) And yes I do ship LeeXMark and LeeXKenny but I would love to see CANNON gays,lesbians etc. I see no reason not to.

Take Bill from the last of us, it is implied he's gay because he called the guy he used to be with his "Partner" and had magazines of gay porn or naked men I believe. He never flaunted his homosexuality like most games would do. Once again in some tv shows they created the stereotypical gay male who's into fashion and serves no purpose to the plot but comic relief, or in anime just to make yuri and yayoi fan/boys/girls be drawn into whatever they find appealing of it (Yes I am a fan of yuri but I don't like straight up porn, I like a developing romance, but I don't mind female nude in amines as long as there's more to the anime then that)

So with that how would you feel about if Telltale created a wider rang of cast members with different sexualities? I would love it personally, but what about you guys out there?

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Comments

  • The reason people's sexuality/attraction isn't discussed is simply because (drumroll please) it doesn't matter! Whenever life is at stake and every nook and cranny can contain your last breath in life, then the issue of sexuality is a non-problem. Also, don't confuse any 'broters-in-arms' affection for homosexuality for example; it is well known that friendship in the trenches can be very close - but not sexual in nature. And a life in a zombie apocalypse might very well trigger that kind of friendship - dude 1 might fight back to back with dude 2 to survive against a zombie horde, and then at night they curl up together to keep warm. Not sexual affection, just brothers in arms.

    Another thing is, as soon as someone's sexuality actually is brought up, it will immediately be implied that there will be flirting, romance, sex, the whole nine yards - and media seldom fail to deliver. For example, I've been watching 'An American Horror Story' which features a gay couple who doesn't do much else but bicker - but one is actively getting sex elsewhere, and is also at one point aggressively trying to get down on a straight guy. (As a side note, it's an ok show. Not great, but ok)

    The same goes to some extent also for straight people in media - have a guy in a room and get a girl in there his age ASAP. However, it is easier to avoid straight pairings since all the tropes reagrding that are older than dirt and therefore can be dodged. This could be seen in TWDTG between Lee and Carly - there were some VERY innocent flirting attempts from Carly, but that was all.

    So unless it is plot critical we know who wants to bone who, I'd rather not know. Leave it to the fanfic and sex descriptions a la IKEA.

  • If it's just to appeal to a certain audience, then no, because it's quite likely it will be exaggerated and thrown in our faces. However, if it's done with taste and tact, then.. why the hell not? It's a sensitive subject for a lot of people but it should be treated and portrayed like it isn't.

    Have you read the comics by any chance? There is a gay relationship, although the characters are not very important, but it's done very well because the writer does not make a big deal out of it.

  • Last time I checked it wasn't bioware making this game.

  • No reason to show actual gay relationships if fans still ship same-gender characters with each other already. With that being said, I wouldn't be opposed to it if it actually happened.

    I noticed this heavily in TWDG tumblr fandom. Place is Cringe City over there.

  • Ahh love Bioware but kinda thankful for that. :P

  • I'm absolutely not content with what Bioware is doing, sadly. Not only is their gameplay of the ridiculous 'pick your sex partner at will' sort, but they also keep creating characters with exactly the same 'perfect' body proportions, Alien or not. They're just not going for diversity, they don't have an interest in portraying a living, functional and maybe a bit imperfect society of individuals. These are all more or less replicants. But what the heck, SquareEnix is even worse (I seriously can't tell the characters of FFXV apart, they all look like the very same person with different absurd 'cool' hairdos). The Walking Dead game, for all its faults, at least tried to portray actual people from our society. Maybe some of the characters weren't hetero, it really wouldn't have mattered that much. We just don't know that part of the lives of most of the characters in detail, be it Lilly or Chuck or Ben, or which way other characters in a relationship would have swung. That's just not the topic of TWD.

  • edited September 2013

    Something doesn't necessarily have to make a huge impact on gameplay or story for it to mean something to a player. Sometimes, it just has to be there. People enjoy seeing those who are similar to themselves and issues that are important to them being portrayed in the media that they enjoy. Lee's race wasn't a huge deal in the grand scheme of things but the fact that he was black allowed gamers who were black to identify more with his character. If the OP is homosexual/bisexual, then it makes sense for him/her to want to see characters who are homosexual/bisexual in the game that he/she likes.

    And, yes, this is a story about a zombie apocalypse but it's also a story of humanity. And age, race, gender, sexual identity, religious belief, etc are all aspects of humanity that could be presented and explored in the game.

  • The Walking dead is not about sex, so there is no need for us to know any characters sexual identity.

  • But we knew the sexual identity of plenty of characters. We knew that Lee had a wife. We knew Carley and Doug were sweet on eachother. We had Kenny and Kaatja, Omid and Christa. I agree, TWD has become waaaay too sexualised...

  • I only one the walking dead first comic "Days gone by". I'm not a die hard fan of the comics, I find the Tv show and telltale game more of my thing but if I have some cash to spare I might pick up some more copies.

    Thats pretty cool to hear, not a lot of fictional writers use homosexual characters (That isn't a porno!). And that its not all I"In yo face" stuff, I would like character development..

  • Are you genuinely serious?

  • I don't understand why we can't just enjoy the game. The gays always have an agenda. Why not start making there own damn video games.

  • I once played metal gear..i liked it so much I've been a fan since childhood, sadly I work a part time Job at McDonald's does that mean Snake should have a cut scene flipping burgers to make him more relate-able to me as an individual??? Or what if I'm a Lesbian does that mean I wanted Lily's girlfriend to jump out of the bushes and scream were lesbians bring on the strap-ons??? Just enjoy the damn game for how it is.

  • edited September 2013

    I was going to reply to your other comment. Snidely, but politely point out how your argument was a strawman. Clarify that the point was not to make every character just like the player but to have a greater variety of characters to depict a more grand and accurate view of humanity that anyone might be able to relate to.

    Then I saw this.

    Never-fuckin'-mind.

  • Just take aspirin and coke and you'll feel a lot better.

  • Seriously? No one said you can't enjoy the game. Would putting LGBTQ characters in the game take away your enjoyment of The Walking Dead?

    I think more gay characters in games are definitely neccesary because the LGBTQ community has barely any characters to identify with. Gay gamers are constantly harassed and excluded by the incredibly homophobic gaming community - if you play online, just try to count the amount of homophobic slurs you hear/read. More gay characters in games might make for a more accepting environment for gay gamers.

    I would personally really like it if they put in a gay couple and handled it the same subtle way as Kirkman handled Aaron and Eric. Not over the top, but definitely there.

  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited September 2013

    Isn't it always like that...

    I would like to remind some of you that homophobic hate speech is against forum rules, very much so.

    Also, fiction is a reflection of our society. While there's no pressing need to have that 'wider range of sexual identities' in The Walking Dead, it certainly would not be misplaced if the designers aimed at showing that diversity of our present society. If you as the player would completely rule those kind of relationships out of 'your' fiction, it DOES say something about your view of society at large.

    Lastly, The Walking Dead is not about sex. It is about relationships. To think that the incorporation of a homosexual/lesbian relationship would automatically mean "gay sex", that's a bit of a biowared assumption. Relationships would of course be shown and detailed just like in Season one.

    I would have loved to moderate some of the last comments with a bit more care, but alas, the new moderator tools are an axe and not a scalpel, so a lot of the comments will just have to go. I apologize for this.

    Just keep it cool in here. Thanks.

  • edited September 2013

    Personally I don't support idea of adding gay character just because he is gay or retconning existing character like Kenny to homosexual (it would be just bad writing). However if the character fits to the story, then I have nothing against including gay character. In Wadjet Eye's Resonance homosexual character was actually one of my favourites, because he was written well and they didn't make a big number about his sexuality, but most of the time gay characters in adventure games are just awkward, like that gay guy from Phantasmagoria 2.

  • edited September 2013

    Marlo Thomas

  • Your comment got me thinking about what Bioware would do if they took hold of this game. I'd imagine we'd be able to romance everyone because suddenly they'd all be bisexual, and then we'd find an ultra intelligent, ultra sexy female walker, who of course we're able to have.. uh.. "relations" with. Imagine the sex scene! Oh my.

  • The real world is a world of differences, of diversity. And sometimes individuality means incompatibility. If the person you're falling in love with isn't even into your gender, that's a prime source of broken hearts nowadays. Bioware's world is basically one where ALL the creatures in the universe mix and match at the player's preference. Politically correct or not, that's just not good fiction.

    As for the zombie sex scene... well, I've never seen the "Warm Bodies" movie, but I'm sure we're really not far from this atrocity. Telltale's certainly not doing it, though. As proper Americans, they'll readily break every violence taboo still available, but sex is off limits. ;)

  • edited September 2013

    Warm Bodies? Had to Google that. Hilarious concept, I have to say.

    I dunnnnooo. I can imagine a complete nutjob in denial of losing his wife, keeping her chained up for his own safety and god knows what else. In terms of taboos, TTG has explored cannibalism, suicide and not much else so far. In the comics, Kirkman kinda touches the idea of necrophilia with the Governor and his zombified daughter. Would it be too much if TTG did the same?

    I feel all dirty and gross for even discussing the subject. xD

  • JenniferJennifer Moderator
    edited September 2013

    Olaus Petrus wrote:

    >

    Personally I don't support idea of adding gay character just because he is gay or retconning existing character like Kenny to homosexual (it would be just bad writing). However if the character fits to the story, then I have nothing against including gay character. In Wadjet Eye's Resonance homosexual character was actually one of my favourites, because he was written well and they didn't make a big number about his sexuality, but most of the time gay characters in adventure games are just awkward, like that gay guy from Phantasmagoria 2.

    I agree with you. I wouldn't mind seeing a gay, bisexual, transgender, or intersex character but only if they handled it well. Too often these characters are used for comic relief, as proverbial punching bags (taking huge amounts of verbal and/or physical abuse), or both. The rule of thumb for good writing is that you should always treat the characters you are writing about with respect, so that you don't pull the player/reader/viewer out of the experience.

  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited September 2013

    Telltale has done the franchise justice with a few really gross scenes. But what they want to excel in is the storytelling, not the visual violence.

    Kirkman has had rape scenes in TWD. I doubt Telltale will ever touch upon the subject. Kirkman kills main characters in an extremely graphic way. Telltale wanted to start similarly, but in the course of the episodes, they have definitely veered more in the direction of the 'graceful' off screen death. Death itself was the shocker, not the way it was portrayed. That's their thing, I guess (and hope). Some of the more hardcore comic fans couldn't really understand that direction (and in fact, come episode 5, we had quite a few people doubting Lee's death 'because Clementine probably missed' so TTG Jake had to actually confirm that she's not that bad a shot).

    Narratively, there's nothing to be won by a zombie sex scene. Establishing that a character is really really perverted by showing this, that's something Kirkman might do some day when he runs out of taboos to break, and I think he already has. But it's not the angle Telltale wishes to shock you, I believe. And indeed they can do so much better.

  • Frankly, I don't see why they wouldn't. You meet enough people in the Walking Dead games, that one of them is bound to be gay sooner or later. It should be treated just like any other character's sexuality is treated.

    People keep bringing up Bioware as a bad example, but I think they're also an example of the best gay character I've yet to see in a videogame - Steve Cortez. He wasn't written any differently than any other character, except when he talks about the love of his life that he lost, it's his husband. (Granted, I've never played ME3 as a male Shepard, so I don't know if his character gets a lot less subtle if you romance him) That's how it should always be.

  • The problem is that if a gay character is introduced, it is becomes a point. Steve Cortez was introduced as a gay for the simple reason Bioware wanted to cater to the quite vocal interest groups that wanted a homosexual relationship in Mass Effect. I agree he was well written, but Bioware could just as well made him with a non-descript sexuality like Vega.

    A character with the sexuality written out that plainly is there for one reason only, and that is to be a potential romance for the player character. I think this entire issue was very well handled in TWD since you had absolutely no romance involved, which I appreciate since it has become a staple of most RPGs since Baldurs Gate II - simply put, it has become (or is becoming at least) cliché. Carly's very light flirt with Lee was innocent and done very well, and could just as well be seen as a 'lil sis-and-big bro' relationship.

  • Mmmmm, You're talking about Male zombie and Female zombie having sex?

  • No, I'm talking about survivors, I'm know the walking dead game is not a porno nor a romance novel its about surviving and the things you do to survive. I'm merely just throwing in the idea if they added a gay,lesbian, transgendered etc member of the cast not just for romance (Not that they NEED to be in one) Like I posted about Bill in "the Last of us."

  • I'm not a big fan of the stereotypical shipping shtick, as so much of it seems to involve ignoring anything about the actual characters and implying that a relationship can't be meaningful or interesting unless it's sexual.

    That aside, I'll agree with the sentiment that I wouldn't be against seeing a gay character, but I wouldn't want to see them added just for the sake of having someone who's LGBT.

  • There are gay characters in the comic, I think its great that kirkman added them because well there are gay people in the world and they belong there just as much as any other type of sexuality. I don't think it would be gratuitous to add gay characters its just a fact that they exist and should be there.

  • Because I couldn't think of a badass enough epic comeback

  • I would like all the characters to be gay

  • edited September 2013

    The game of The Walking Dead has a very limited collection characters and the comic has apparently loads of them. And here is my point: With a lot of characters, you can apply whatever characteristics you want and have them blend in with each other and the background. To use a mechanica example:

    A. The group consist of two men, and one of them is gay. The ratio of gays are thus 50%.

    B. The group has ten men, and one is gay. The ratio of gays are 10%.

    What I mean is that with few characters, certain quirks become so much more prominent, and as I've said before, introducing a gay character WILL instill demands that he will be romanceable - trust me on this one. The only way I can think of to avoid this is to have a female protagonist, alternatively a male protagonist and a lesbian NPC. But setting up that kind of situation would sort of defuse the entire idea of having gays in the story.

  • I don't quite follow, why would lesbian character and male protagonist or gay character and female protagonist defuse the entire idea of having gays in the story. Inclusion of homosexual character doesn't mean that he/she has to be romantic interest of the main character. In Season 1 Lee was heterosexual male and he didn't have sexual relations with every female character in the game, so why would homosexual character have to be anyone's love interest? I doubt that the demand that gay character should be romanceable would be any greater than demand that Lee should be able to have sex with female members of the group was, because homosexuals aren't any more sex crazy than rest of the population.

    Personally I don't want too much romance (heterosexual or homosexual) to the game, because I don't want to see that Season 2 of the game becomes like Season 2 of the TV series (there was too much Rick, Lori and Shane love triangle stuff for my liking. I want more walkers and less relationship drama.)

  • Very well, let me elaborate:

    If a character who is homosexual and of the same gender as the protagonist it is implied that that character is there for the protagonist as a (potential) romance. It is the bread and butter of the motivation, fueled by other things by fan demand (which is why Steve Cortex made it into Mass Effect 3). A homosexual NPC with the same gender as the protagonsit that is NOT used as a romance bait would cause an uproar in the community, which is the reason it would be pointless to include that kind of character to begin with.

    With straight characters of different genders it is much easier, since that is the 'default' setting so to speak. Characters can view each other as friends, lovers and even enemies. Lilly and all the male characters come to mind here.

    However, we don't know the sexuality of characters like Lilly, and this is a good thing, much better than if she had her sexuality being known, and this is because of the setting, namely a zombie apocalypse. This kind of thing tends to make issues like sexuality, romance and sex quite the luxury that few people can afford when their lives is on the line all the time. An unknown sexuality is better than a known, since it makes us focus on what's important, namely survival, and in game terms building relationships with people that can help or ruin your chance for survival. In games like this sexuality is just as interesting as the color of Lee's underwear, ie, not at all.

    Carly and Lee built a raport in a very nice way; you could see it as some kind of flirt, but also as I said a brother-sister relationship. It's not really clear wheter or not there were any stronger feelings between them.

    This entire discussion is not about sex as you seem to think, but relations. Relations can lead to sex, but they can also lead to bromance, friendship, whater - or hate if you screw up. A hate-hate relationship is still a relationship, but not a good one.

    Apart from all this, please read my other posts on the subject.

  • edited September 2013

    I didn't bring up the idea of romantic/sexual relationships, but my understanding was that you seemed to think that it's the only way possible homosexual characters can behave in games (in my eyes they're just normal people, so I don't expect anything from them).

    I don't know how this Steve Cortex guy was written as I haven't played Mass Effect games. I tend to focus more on adventure games than RPGs these days, although the gay romance thing in RPGs isn't anything new. It was already possible to marry same sex person in Fallout 2. But I think RPGs are quite different genre than adventures, because in RPGs it is you who define who the character is while in adventure games you can often make the moral choices, but character is predefined.

    Like I mentioned in my first post to this thread, in a recent adventure game Resonance one important character was homosexual, but it was only strongly hinted in one discussion which you could actually miss if you didn't use all alternative dialogue options. However knowing that gave whole new meaning to some things in the story and made you understand his motivations better. Now that's the kind of writing I would also like to see in the Walking Dead if we get gay character(s) i. e. they aren't defined just by their sexual orientation, but are "real" persons.

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