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US Goverment Shutdown [Discussion]

posted by fusedmass BANNED on - last edited - Viewed by 3.6K users

I'm fairly interested in politics. Perhaps this bores some people to death. However since I love the games, this site provides. I thought I would try an experiment with this thread. Looking over the rules for this site. There is nothing against discussing politics.

With that being said., Obamacare or the Affordable Health Care act will go into effect today. Last night Republicans refused to pass a clean resolution that funds the government unless Obamacare is delayed (Translation: delayed they can elect enough republicans to override the President's veto)

They would not accept anything less then a one year delay on Obamacare and a repeal of the tax on medical devices that would actually saved the country money. (estimated 33 billion dollars.) Its projected that with Obamacare it actually saves more in the economy and it would add more to the debt by trying to repeal it.

These people are so divided. They would would actually refuse to fund the government. Rather then vote to keep the lights on. What do you make of the current state of politics in the US government. Do you blame the Republicans, or the Liberals, please detail your answer.

Thank you.

Currently I started a petition to recall Senator Ted Cruz. If you share my common sense point of view. Read everything in this thread first. Then make a choice on your own if you wish to support my petition to recall him.

Thank you.

  • Someone needs to be there to force the Republicans to compromise. Where's the nearest Sith Lord when you need one?
    But seriously, Obamacare is largely based on Romneycare. Romney is a Republican. So basically the Republicans are only whining because the Affordable Healthcare Act has a Democrat's name on it. It has nothing to do with the effect it might or might not have on the economy.

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    Vainamoinen Moderator

    Europeans will probably not deliver a lot of differing statements on this matter. 'Obamacare' is just the attempt at a beginning of a start of a proper Affordable Healthcare system, it costs you practically nothing compared to the military budget, and the president had to practically slit his own throat to get this little into effect. And still people keep voting for the Tea Party. I'd say you need a proper revolution, but the recent German election turned out far, far, faaaar too conservative as well. In principle, we're the same kind of sheep. Then again, what counts as conservative over here probably already slightly borders on the socialist in the United States.

    Yeah. Very different countries.

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    fusedmass BANNED

    It's amazing to me. Obamacare was passed by the Senate and the House, signed into law by the President. Republicans still protested so it went to the supreme court. Which upheld the ruling. Funding the goverment has nothing to do with Obamacare. It just stops hundreds of thousands of workers from getting their checks.

    I honestly believe some people are more concerned with their next election then issues in front of them. Its been studied that because of Obamacare. The economy will become more stable. Republicans keep saying, repeal and replace. But with what, they have put forth a plan to fix the system.

    I personally believe health care should be affordable to all not just the rich elite few that can afford it. What was interesting in the shut down. Republicans refused to sign off on a bill for the government unless the president defunded his health care plan. Now I believe the republicans will suffer greatly in their re elections.

  • Someone needs to be there to force the Republicans to compromise. Where's the nearest Sith Lord when you need one?

    Getting over a cold and not caring about a country thousands of miles away. :D

    Honestly, it's your country and you guys can screw it up however you want. If you don't want affordable health care, then that's YOUR problem.

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      fusedmass BANNED

      It's not as simple as "We don't want affordable health care. Its OUR PROBLEM" You see the way our politics work. Because US is so massive. We have hundreds of senators both Dem and Republican. Now the Dem "DO WANT AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE" there's not one sole person deciding if we want it or not.

      The problem is. There is a small faction extreme right wing. That are blocking bills from being advanced. However. If you don't care about this discussion. I'm not forcing you to respond. I know this site host many diverse people from all around the world. I just sincerely thought since it was blasting on the news 24/7.

      Even if you don't live here. You could likely offer your insight, rather then not caring because your thousands of miles away. I still care what happens around the globe on Syria, Iran, Russia, China. Just because physically I'm not there. I'm still interested in those events.

      • I will never understand politics. Ever. It's so absurdly complicated I can never be bothered to put in the time and effort to figure out what means what and who's doing who.

        I have enough trouble trying to figure out which of OUR political parties is the least evil, let alone other countries!

  • In all honesty, what needs to change first is the strict two-party system here. Yes, it is nigh impossible in the States due to its sheer size and dividedness, but having more than just two big parties with a few smaller satelite parties has some advantages, of course with its disadvantages.

    But here's in my opinion the biggest advantage. Right now, it's really just strictly divided between Democrats and Republicans. There is nearly no room for compromise, as the biggest party is at the same time the party with the majority vote (note that this doesn't always have to be the case, I think). However, with multiple parties, the biggest party isn't always the party with the majority. You still need to compromise, work together with other parties, in order to get shit done. Now it's not a perfect system, in the Netherlands for the past six years we've gone through around five or six elections because it all fell apart, but that's because the Dutch can't cooperate with each other for shit.

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    Jennifer Moderator

    George Washington was not affiliated with any political parties, and he expressed his concern that political parties "are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."

    I wish people listened to him.

    • Interesting quote from a brilliant man, but why are political parties to blame for the shutdown (what I assume is your implication)? American political parties today are very different and are now relatively weak. American politics today is candidate-centered and issue-centered, and candidates communicate with voters in ways that don't require the Party. Also, direct voter primaries now choose party nominees. Anyway, the leader of the opposition to Obamacare is the impressive patriot Senator Ted Cruz, who rebukes his own party's establishment leadership as much as he does Obama!

      If you want some founding-era material that speaks perfectly to the current situation, start with the United States Constitution (and in particular the 10th amendment) and what it describes for the limited role of the federal government. The Constitution is disregarded by many of our own representatives, including Obama, who swore an oath to preserve, protect and defend it. They believe the central government's power ought to be limitless.

      The Federalist #45:

      The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation and foreign commerce. ... The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives and liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement and prosperity of the State.

      -€€James Madison

  • Here's the link for how it may affect you. Kinda funny that the items on the list are named after songs! :D

  • Yeah, all I gotta say is: fuck those guys. Fuck them all.

    The Republican party is a beached whale, a mass of blubber struggling to survive in a world where at best they are outdated and obsolete and at worst, dragging down any progress with hatred, bigotry, and misogyny. The only reason they have any power at all is through deluding their voter base with their thin veneer of supporting religion, but that's not going to last forever and eventually, they'll find themselves collapsing under their own weight.

    What they did here wasn't politics. It was the beginning of death throes. They've put so much into opposing the Affordable Care Act that if it succeeds, which they're terrified it will, they will lose what little respect they had. They wouldn't be opposing it if they thought it would fail. They would LOVE for it to fail. Then they could get it completely defunded with no problems and look like the good guys and reclaim their voter base. It's because they think it will actually work that they're resorting to such measures.

    They're basically willing to put thousands of people out of work, smash up the economy, cost the government billions of dollars that, according to them, we can't afford, and basically make a huge mess and lots of pain just to prove a point. And that makes them absolutely despicable to me.

    • Or maybe it's because Obamacare is a disaster and the American people know it.

      Look, you can call people who disagree with you names all day long. Calling people who disagree with you "hateful" and therefore unworthy of being heard is the most tired tactic in the book. Pro-life? Hate women! Disagree with Obama? Racist hater! Believe in the definition of marriage? Hate gays! None of these charges are true, of course, but the insidious practice of calling people who disagree with you "full of hate!" is used over and over because it works.

      I really think a lot of it is liberal projection. Have you guys seen how tolerant those preaching tolerance the loudest really are? Check out how they treat conservative women, conservative non-whites and conservative gays. The amount of sick bile slung at those who reject the liberal orthodoxy is really unbelievable, and it always focuses on the person's gender, skin color or sexual orientation. They are considered a traitor to their gender or not truly black or whatever if they dare think for themselves. But of course the news media and pop culture ignore it and often perpetuate it. Glaring double standard.

  • For the record, it annoys me that people tie Christianity to the Republican Party or vice versa.

    I'm a Christian, and I'm a Democrat.

    ... not to move the topic to religion. It just rubs me wrong that Republicans are using my faith simply as a political tool to sway the uninformed.

    • While there are many Christians who are Democrats (usually the more sane ones), there is a far higher percentage that are Republican and, as a result, the Republican party tends to cater to their more extreme Christian audience.

    • It's worth pointing out here that liberals are often militantly hostile to religion, unless that religion is Islam. Yes, there are always exceptions.

      • I would say it's the other way around: Liberals are largely tolerant of religions, if not religious themselves, with a few exceptions. Even in the Democrat primaries, an atheist wouldn't stand a chance.

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    fusedmass BANNED

    Situations like this, I look at Canada, Europe, etc. I'm not sure about other country's. I suspect America is one of the most corrupted with politics. Since Citizens United which was a Supreme court ruling that Corporations could spend nearly unlimited amounts of cash. Republicans touted it as "free speech". Since money equals more free speech. Politicians are running to corporation for fund raising in return for favors.

    Some Republicans fear losing their election, caring more about that then the actual country. Then you have these situations. Where republicans are so scared of losing their re election, they would rather throw America under the bus. Parks will be closed. Museums will be closed. Hundreds of thousands of government workers will be laid off.

    I sometimes, get sick to death of this. Last time this took place. They downgraded Americas credit rating, that was nearly a year ago. You talk to Republicans they say, Harry Reid shut down the government by refusing to negotiate(Harry Reid is Dem Senate Majority Leader) Why would you Negotiate on something that is already law.

    America is extremity divided right now. So much so, we can't even agree to fund the government without holding the economy hostage. It's pretty much them saying, do this and this for me or I won't sign off on the bill. It really is a toxic and twisted place, congress has become.

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