Lots of talk about whether the decision to give Faith money was because of her gender, but...

edited October 2013 in The Wolf Among Us

There is a much more sexist choice present in episode one.

I think if you had seen Beast hiding behind the bushes instead, and he asked you not to tell Beauty that you saw him, most people WOULD have told her.

Whether this is based around some kind of primal sexist desire to try and 'protect' women, or whether it was to impress Beauty in hopes of, a'hem, 'bangin' dat ass', this choice seemed to be much more based on gender than the decision to give a hooker money.

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Comments

  • edited October 2013

    Hmm. I guess it would depend on the specific context but I don't have the same intuition as you do that most people would tell Beauty about seeing Beast if the situation were reversed. I do agree that gender does play a somewhat bigger role here than in the Faith case but in a different way than what you're describing.

    With Beauty, I was hesitant to lie for her because I thought that something might end up happening to her and that I would be at fault if I didn't tell Beast about it. I suppose that part of this may have had something to do with her being a woman (a seemingly small and frail princess no less) and me feeling a need to protect her from whatever seedy activities she's participating in. With Beast, I would be far less concerned about his safety out on the streets so I wouldn't really think about how guilty I would feel if something were to happen to him.

    Ultimately, though, I think people end up lying for Beauty for the same reason they end up giving the money to Faith. Most people play through these games trying to be as nice to everyone as possible and promising to keep Beauty's secret and giving Faith the money just seemed like the "nice" things to do in those exchanges. By the time Beast asks them, they had already committed to the promise to Beauty and so they stay true to their word. Gender might have something to do with people's willingness to trust Beauty's intentions, but personally, if Beast asks me not to tell Beauty that I saw him because he doesn't want her to worry, I think that I would be inclined to trust that he isn't doing anything malicious.

    That being said, I gave both of them the silent treatment because I refuse to get into that mess.

  • edited October 2013

    I don't know if I would talk to/approach him the same way - if I saw a bigger person duck behind the tree..I would probably be more wary of them. When I saw it was a smaller female, I was just like "I've got this - right, get out here"..lucky they weren't a witch or something I guess, I haven't read fables - so there are probably smaller females who are more dangerous than beast , or large looking males. Or she could have been using glamour. Haha...I guess I need to think about that from now on.

    but if he had said exactly the same in the same way, i would still promise not to say anything.

  • It think it was more to do with her demeanour and the way she acted rather then the fact that she was a woman.

    If a guy had come out and acted the same way, chances are I'd have done the same thing. Conversely, Snow she hadn't acted like she was scared and could do with my help, and instead acted tough and strong, then I may well not have lied to Beast.

    Of course, that's just me.

  • I don't care if she's a woman or not. My immediate reaction was to go "nah, I'm not getting involved in this bullshit".

    Regret nothing

  • I had the same reaction as Epusydus. Nothing to do with the character being male or female, it had to do with the fact that it looked like something I'd rather not be involved in. As far as I was concerned at that point, since I knew nothing about the situation, I felt that whatever was going on between them needed to stay between them.

  • I had the same reaction as you guys. The thread, however, was more directed at those who did lie for her.

  • I chose to give her the money, because it just seemed appropriate at that time. Not because she's a woman, but purely because she needed help. I'd do the same even if it was a male prostitute. But boy, was I so wrong.

    I didn't know this stupid Wolf would give ALL THE MONEY he'd got! How much did he give to her, 80-something dollars? Seriously, you got 80 dollars in the pocket and it's really late at night. It's not even your place so eventually you need to grab a taxi. What was he thinking? Idiot...

    I believe this whole argument wouldn't even emerge if Wolf 'reasonably' helped her...

    Anyway, thanks to his excessive kindness, not only do we doubt his sexism, but also later in the game, the players who chose to compensate her can't even pay for your double-shot whiskey at the bar. A prostitute who didn't even do her job on Woody got 80 dollars from a good Samaritan, and a hard-working Ogre barkeeper whose property got severely wrecked got nothing at all.

  • I did lie for Beauty just because I tried to be nice to everyone and she was convincing when she said that it was nothing to worry about.

  • i didn't want to be involved with other peoples relationships, get that away from me, plus i didn't have enough information to take sides, so i would have acted the same if it had been beast instead of beauty

  • Again, this thread is directed at people who did help her, and their reasons for doing so.

  • oh really, where does it say that? and what's the point of talking about something if you only want one type of responce?

  • In any game I help any npc, here I dun have a choice considering my type of playthrough. Silence

  • For some reason I thought she was in trouble with him specifically and was thinking I was protecting her from him at first. Later I stuck with it because I had already promised I would and I didn't know what was going on. Whether you want to consider that sexist or not I guess that's really up to you.

    And yes I gave money to the hooker, a poor defenseless woman in the middle of nowhere with no way to get any where, just seemed like the appropriate thing to do. Again, not really sure if that's considered sexist or not, not even sure I care if it is. While I might rethink the Beauty and Beast decision, I stand by this one.

  • I just felt Like I wanted to help she got slapped around and I didn't want to be an asshole

  • This is one of those times I'll outright admit reading the comics spoiled it for me - I chose to trust Beauty SPECIFICALLY because I've read a lot of the comics and knew from those that there's no reason to question her faith to her husband.

  • Same, but the scene from next episode makes me think shes stripping for cash as we learn from the comics that most did not retain their wealth from the Homelands.

  • Because I'm talking about the people who DID lie to Beast, and questioning their reasons for doing so.

  • If it wasn't sexist you wouldn't have specified 'poor defenseless woman'

  • I did give the hooker my money on the first play through, but I felt stupid afterwards. I didn't expect him to give out all his money, none of this was my business and since Woody was out of the picture I didn't see any reason for me to help her more. I guess when given the choice just 'to help' or 'not to help' I chose 'to help', because it's early in the game, you don't know the mechanics yet, so you make the better choice. I like my characters being lonely bad asses so I didn't do this expecting any candy. I was very happy with the 'Not my problem' answer with the Beauty/Beast matter.

  • edited November 2013

    I thought it was hilarious that there were so many gamers that thought it was a good idea to give ALL their money to a hooker. Then they take it a step further and lie to a married man about his wife. Too many "white knights" out there...it just screams to me that there are too many lonely guys who will do anything to gain a woman's favor.

  • I gave Faith money for too many reasons. When it came to Beauty and Beast, I didn't trust Beauty so I when Beast asked me I answered truthfully to the bone.

  • edited November 2013

    Definition of sexist: "DISCRIMINATORY on the basis of sex." Definition of discriminatory: making or showing an UNFAIR or PREJUDICIAL (harmful) distinction between different categories of people or things, esp. on the grounds of race, age, or sex." If in the episode, there were various choices to treat females like SHIT and most people did that, you would have a point, but that wasn't the case. This is the opposite whereas most people picked an option to help out the female. So with your perception of what is sexist, I guess one sex should never have this idea to help out the other when they need it.

  • edited November 2013

    To follow with my last comment, lets say the argument stands with guys choosing to help with women with this subconscious idea that they might "get some" from doing so, or whatever the case may be. This Is still a bad argument because 1) You would have to prove that EVERY guy was thinking like that. 2) Faith was a prostitute about to return to her pimp empty handed; so most people already have this notion that she was probably gonna get the shit beat out of her, and beauty genuinely looked like she needed you not to tell beast where she was; as if she would meet a great consequence by you telling beast her whereabouts. So I think this should also shed some light on why the decisions to help out the women were quite normal and rational, whether you were a male or female playing the game. I honestly have no idea how the idea that this game is sexist even entered these forums...

  • There is such a thing as positive discrimination, not that it applies here. That being said, a lawman choosing to keep private a woman's business makes sense considering the rate of husband on wife violence. Don't want to fuel fires.

    And on your other point, there are legitimate complaints about sexism to be discussed. Mainly fridging of the two female characters Bigby related with, which I saw an old thread about.

  • I agree with positive sexism, and also that it does NOT apply here. And this thread of sexism is about the player choices. see my following comment.

  • Initially, I did give the money to Faith. What a mistake that turned out to be! The reason I gave her the money is because I felt bad about her already getting a beat down from the Woodsman and then she'd have to deal with her pimp as well. When Beauty asked me to keep her secret I did tell her okay but when Beast asked I told him that I just saw her. Bro's before ho's! I'm just kidding!!!! Seriously though I told him because of the dangerous situation with the town and whatnot. Besides Beast seemed to be a dear type of friend that actually confided in Bigby. It would not have done any good to allow him to wriggle in an unknown agony about his own wife. So technically I lied to Beauty and tried to protect her with Beast's concern.

  • Not having money at the bar is no big deal. You can charge Crane A.K.A Government.

  • You're absolutely right my friend but I didn't want that jackass to think he was doing me any favors. Plus since she ended up the way she did anyway... That was some good cash flushed down the tubes. lol

  • First of all, I gave Faith the money because considering how unfairly girls are treated as prostitutes when they fail a job, I figured I'ld at least help her out. Also I don't think lying to beast had anything to do with Beauty being a girl. I choice to tell Beast because I was suspicous. I think most people lied to beast because they accidentlly agreed to lie and wanted to keep the promise. I don't think it's sexist or anything.

  • As someone who read the comic, I say I lied to Beast because I trusted Beauty on whatever it is she's doing. I don't have any reason to suspect her.

  • edited December 2013

    My sister played it, and she gave the money to the (we don't know if she is a prostitute) girl, and lied for Beauty. So maybe they were just- I don't know- convincing?

  • Faith is a prostitute and it will be confirmed in episode 2 for everyone that has shitty knowledge. Heck it's even fully proven at the end of episode 1.

  • edited December 2013

    Condescend me again, friend. I'll mount your head on a fucking pike. (:

    I know it's implied she's a prostitute, but it's never proven for sure, that's just the first conclusion to jump to.

    Have you consider, for an example, that Snow and Faith aren't actually dead? That somehow there is a deeper plot within a rather simple spree of murders?

  • I promised to keep Beauty's secret because, based on how The Woodsman turned out character-wise, I figured Beast would be abusive. I mean, he's called "the Beast" - not exactly the name you'd expect a caring husband to have.

    When I actually met him afterward I regretted the choice, because he seemed like a sweet guy who was really just concerned for her safety.

    Despite how it may seem, this wasn't a gender-based decision on my part. If their roles had been reversed, with Beauty being a slight-bodied male slinking out at night and his wife being known as "The Beast" in a dark fantasy setting, I'd have made the same decision. The Beast sounds intimidating and powerful; in both cases, Beauty is comparatively physically weak whether male or female.

    I supported who I thought would be the most vulnerable in the scenario without knowledge of what Beast is actually like. In retrospect I regretted the choice 'cuz he turned out to be a stand-up guy, but if I could do it all over again, whether gender roles are reversed or not, I'd make the same decision.

    The Faith-money situation had more to do with gender. I gave her the money because a) it was the right thing to do, and b) she seemed like a possible love interest. If Faith had been male, I would still have given him the money, but only because it was the right thing to do.

  • Joking or not, that sort of language is WAY too much. Both of you - keep it in check please.

  • I said it will be proven for everyone that Faith is a prostitute. It's already being proven slowly. If you go to Lawrence's first and tell him the half-truth or truth he'll tell you she worked for Georgie, at the end of the game we see a pimp with tattoos "Kiss the girls" and that of a pie. Georgie Porgie pudding and pie, kissed the girls, and made them cry. When the boys come out to play Georgie Porgie runs away.

    There is the proof you so wanted. All of it in episode 1 and a nursery rhyme.

  • Technically that's less 'solid proof' and more a 'highly likely situation', but there I go being nit-picky.

  • ur not mi real dad!!!!!!!111one1!!

  • edited December 2013

    What ties Lawrence's mutterings to Faith being a prostitute? Never was it said that Faith worked for Georgie, what he said was "Fuckin' Georgie" with a clear sense of distaste. This can mean different things, we don't have the whole story yet. I'm not ruling out that Faith is a prostitute, just that it's not confirmed. Take this-- what if the pimp we see at the end of episode 1 wanted Faith to work for him, but she refused, leading to the first "beheading", maybe the second "beheading" is unrelated to the first. Maybe it is. There's also no evidence that the pimp was involved at all.

    2/10 shoddy detective work, Lukasz. See me after class.

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