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You know who I think should appear in S2?*SPOILERS*

posted by TheDuck BANNED on - Viewed by 7.3K users

I would love to see Andy St. John again-not as an antagonist, but as a broken man who has no idea why he's even still alive. There are several reasons why this idea appeals to me.

First, TellTale loves to subvert the player's expectations, and pretty much everyone acts as though both brothers were definitely devoured by the zombies if you didn't kill them, even though you never actually SEE this. Is it likely, yes, but not definite.

Second, it's be a great way to show the players that their decisions from the first season really did matter, perhaps in ways they didn't expect. Will people who left them alive to be cruel or even out of a desire to shield Clem suddenly regret it, realizing their actions may have put her in a great amount of danger, which Lee is not around to protect her from?

Third, it's an encounter I'd actually care about. There aren't many Season One characters who even have a possibility of being alive, and while I wouldn't mind seeing them, I'm not all that excited about Clem seeing them again. As someone who worries about Clem having good decisions to make, given her young age and limited physical strength, I see this as a potentially awesome scenario.

Imagine it. Clementine has been alone and sad. She's capable, but still just a child. She's afraid of going to sleep, wanders aimlessly, and struggles to get supplies and stay alive. Then Tavia comes along, and while slightly wary, she is happy at the idea of safety and companionship. Then they arrive, and she comes across Andy. Memories of the last time she and her group thought they'd found a safe place come rushing back, along with the graphic deaths of Mark and Larry, eating or nearly eating human meat, being grabbed by her hair and held at gunpoint, and Andy fighting with and nearly killing Lee. The others notice her reaction and ask if she knows him, but she only says that he looks sad, prompting them to point out how he lost his home and family, which at the very least, she can understand.

So, what does she do? There are three options:

-Tell everyone who and what Andy is. What would be the result of this? Would they believe her? Would her outing him make him angry enough to target her? Would he be kicked out or even executed?

What does she do? Tell the others who and what he is? Maybe even a moment where she has to choose his fate. Does she get revenge? Mercy kill him? Try and help him recover? She's not Lee. If she chooses to trust him and makes a wrong call, she can't hope to fight him off.

-Keep quiet. Could he have changed? What if everyone thinks she is lying? What if not saying anything gets someone hurt or makes it easier for him to target her, should he want revenge. What if the others eventually find out? How will they react to the fact that she knew and said nothing, endangering their community and friends and loved ones? Would they maybe kick her out?

-Try to kill him. Whether she succeeds or not, or is justified or not, how would the others react to a little girl pulling a gun on someone in their safety group? Would this get her kicked out?

In the end, it all comes down to how Clem feels. Does she pity him? Fear him? Does she want revenge, or can she forgive and maybe even help him? It'd be an interesting contrast to her relationship with Lee. Plus, if she chooses to trust him and is wrong, she's not going to be able to fight her way out of it.

  • Seems like you have a nice idea going here but his appearance can't be very long on the second season due to the fact that we got to pick his fate (kill him or spare him(even though it was almost a sure thing that he got eaten by the walkers.)) ...Carley and Doug come to mind here

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      TheDuck BANNED

      I disagree. I think it would only work if stretched across a few episodes. Besides, I'm definitely not the only one sick of characters getting introduced then killed off in the same episode, though that wouldn't entirely be the case here. The writers did say they were going to be doing more story branching.

      • I'd doubt it would stretch over for more than an episode or two, maybe 3 at most. It probably will be a sideline story arch, something that happens alongside the main story that the player can effect, but not the characters main goal. I don't want to kill him off right away, but I don't want him being a major character either.

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          TheDuck BANNED

          I would prefer he not be killed off at all.

          • I honestly don't see him having much purpose other than looking for something that will kill him and provide redemption at the same time. I would imagine him having a bit of a death wish (let's be honest, who wouldn't after loosing their entire family, to some extent or another)?

            One things for sure though. I don't want him being the community cook. That is a recipe for disaster (pun initially not intended, but I'm using it).

            Part of me imagines a chart at the end of episode 4 with "Who's in your group", just like the "who came with you chart" at the end of around every corner. I'm not sure what situation would arise that could warrant that, but it would be interesting to see people realize that Andrew St. John (am I the only one who thinks of him in a southern accent) of "Dinnertime" fame could be helping Clementine now. Talk about character a character arc.

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              TheDuck BANNED

              I think we need to stop thinking characters need to die just because they might lack a "purpose". These characters are more than just plot points, or at least they should be.

              I definitely think he's mostly lost his will to live, but that can change.

              • Perhaps he's found new people to care about in the new settlement, possibly a girlfriend? I could see Telltale doing that just to mess with the player.

                The only reason I see him being off quickly is because even though they said season 2 would have more story branching, I doubt it would have that much story branching.

                Edit: When I said purpose, I meant the characters personal purpose, not plot purpose. After Kenny's family died, he still had a major role in the plot (wanting to beat the crap out of Ben, for example) but as a character, the only thing he had to live for was a boat. I'm not sure what Andy would have to live for at this point.

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                  TheDuck BANNED

                  Well, the whole idea I've presented really revolves around him having nothing and being unsure why he's even still alive, so that wouldn't work. He's not supposed to have anything left to live for, yet he can't seem to just kill himself, either.

                  • If he has nothing left to live for my guess is he won't survive for long. If a character feels like death would be a release, they probably will be inclined to take some major risks.

  • I was actualy thinking of something like this. It would be one hell of an interesting scenario. I could see him working on the generators of a new settlement with some other guy (who would always be there, as backup for when players do kill Andy). I'd like to see him again maybe. I kept both brothers alive in my play through, but its unlikely that Danny could have gotten out of his bear trap and survived. If that was the case though, I'd like an option to talk to the leader or a high ranking official of the settlement, OR just members of the group you were with when you came to the settlement (if you where with a group), OR both, as opposed to just calling him out in public about it. It would affect a lot of players, as most left him alive.

    I don't think telltale will do this, but I'd really like to see it. Maybe he'd be missing a couple of teeth from when Lee beat the crap out of him. Part of the reason I want to see him was because I actually trusted them at first. I wasn't stupid and assumed they where perfect, but I figured that some farms might stay intact, and an electric fence isn't an unreasonable possibility.

    While I'm on a role, you mentioned that he'd have no purpose to live because his entire family was killed. Maybe he's looking for the first opportunity to jump in front of a bullet, like Kenny in a way. He has nothing left to live for, but won't let himself die for nothing. It would be something if he wound up taking a bullet for Clementine or another group member (or an arrow, now that would be one hell of an irony.)

    And now for the obligatory lousy pun:

    You know why I didn't kill the dairy farmer?
    I had butter things to do.

    Seems relevant enough:


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      TheDuck BANNED

      Yeah, I imagine Danny died either way. My biggest theory on Andy surviving in this scenario is that, deepening on Lee's claims regarding his family, he either doesn't believe him or is uncertain of their fate. He'd see his zombified mother right away, but there was still a chance Danny was alive, so he runs and barricades himself in the barn. Even if you spared Danny, though, the trap would surely kill him. I wouldn't rule out Andy being able to get it off without resorting to extremes, but even then, they'd be trapped without proper medical equipment for a while.

      I do like the idea of him ultimately joining forces with Clementine, because they just end up in that kind of of situation where there's little other choice. He would obviously not be her first choice, but...he might be her only one.

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      TheDuck BANNED

      Though, it may not be impossible for Danny to survive with Andy's help.

  • Isn't Andy St. John voicing Bigby in The Wolf Among Us ?

  • I killed Andy and I'm guessing Danny died because I see no way of how him got away from taht trap... So I'm gurssing both died... unless Danny cutted his leg off. I have no good reason to leave one alive and ill the other... I mean Danny I didn't kill because Clem was watching adn I didn't wanted her to see that... Specially because he was already prety helpless... But ndy was making fun and instigaitng me as I was walking away so I didn't give a blip that everyone was wathing and pushed him agains the electric fence... I don't like being talked down...

  • Hmm... I let Andy live because I'm nice but I'm pretty sure he's dead. Why? Because all characters you have the chance to save/kill seem to eventually die in game and there was a load of walkers heading towards him and I don't really care to see him again... HOWEVER, That said, it would make things interesting...

  • The more I think about it the more I like this idea. It ties into what I was saying on a previous thread about Clem's age impacting the story of season 2. If she tells anyone in the new settlement that she joined, what are the odds that anyone will believe her? Take the word of a fully grown man who lost just about everything (that wouldn't be uncommon for a lot of people), who has been around for a while and might be friends (to a degree) with other people, or the new kid? People would probably assume she made it up, after all, she's just a kid. She would have nobody to back her up, she's the only person who went to the St. John dairy and is still alive (excluding the possibility of Kenny).

    Personally, I'd like to see some sort of redemption for him. He probably didn't want to resort to human meat at first, he probably was doing it for the sake of feeding the Save-Lots bandits, who assumed they had plenty of food because they where a farm. Either way, I can't think of a single post apocalyptic story where a willing cannibal (as in, not forced to do it or someone will kill you) changed their ways, and definitely none with as much detail as Andy St. John. at first glance, he doesn't seem to be a weirdo (unlike Danny St. John). A redemption arc would be awesome for season two.

    As I said before tough, he might be borderline suicidal after loosing his family and having no purpose. Maybe if you rat him out he will just try to attack you before getting shot by someone else, and maybe if you keep quiet he will confront the player in private and ask for forgiveness. If you choose to forgive him, maybe he will die saving you later, or at least risk himself to save you. If you don't, he might try to do the same thing and ask for your forgiveness again before he bleeds out or someone thing. Maybe he will go out of his way to take your side...

    I just thought of something. One of the biggest problems Clementine has is that most people won't listen to her because she is just a kid. What if Andrew St. John goes out of his way to support whatever Clementine says to try and repay her for what he did to her group. If he's been in the settlement for a while, people might listen to him, giving you a lot more power over decisions.

    I have an essay I need to write. I wish I could write essays about manipulating new governments in post-apocalyptic America, but oh well. What do you guys think about this?

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      TheDuck BANNED

      If only there was some idea to make my idea come true! Do Telltale writers read these forums?

    • How could a cannibal repay his mistake in a world where the main danger is that everyone wants to eat you ?
      An open-minded guy could understand that the lack of food is a good excuse, but even that does not justify the fact that he was eating human flesh and that he was actually enjoying it... He even fouled non-cannibal people into eating other human, and in our case it was a friend....
      Even a full grown and comprehensive guy couldn't forgive him easily... So how does a child come to accept a guy like that ? And when she accepts it, if the cannibal is in her side, is it not a little bit weird ? How the other adult will react to that ? They will b suspicious about clem, don't you think ?

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        TheDuck BANNED

        You don't need to be able to justify your mistakes in order to repent for them-you just have to realize that you made them and be willing to try. I think Clem being a child could make it easier for her to forgive him, especially since you can prevent her from eating any of the food. If nothing else, she can understand the pain of losing all you have, including your family. Consider her age, choices need to be unique. As I said above, it's not only CAN she forgive him, but SHOULD she. And all the other things you point out I think could also lead to the interesting dynamic. How do her companions react? Who does she choose when it is between them or him?

      • If the other adults in the group knew he was a cannibal, wouldn't they have probably killed him already? I'm not saying what he didn't wasn't atrocious, but maybe he came to realize that he was wrong and is looking for a way to make things right. I'm not saying I would forgive him easily, but if he goes out of his way to take a bullet for you, what about then? That's not a far fetched possibility.

        I'm not saying it doesn't make anything he did any less wrong. I'm a moral absolutist, there are some things you can't justify, and cannibalism is one of them. That doesn't mean you can never redeem yourself. But to be perfectly honest, damn does he have a lot of work to do to make up for what he did.

        Clem gets extremely upset if she sees Andy or Danny die. While this may be in part because of the violent nature of their deaths, its because she wouldn't have killed them herself. I could see Clementine keeping quiet as opposed to effectively sentencing him to death.

        I'm not saying that Andy St. John would be her first choice for an ally. But at some point down the road, he might be the only person who will do what she tells him to do out of some sense of debt to her.

        I doubt telltale will do any of this, but boy is it fun speculating about hypotheticals!

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          TheDuck BANNED

          In this scenario, they don't know what he's done. Only Clementine-any maybe Kenny-does. Hey, if Kenny returns and Clem doesn't do it, maybe it's Kenny who outs him. The point is that Clementine knows when she arrives and has a chance to tell, albeit not without risks.

          Andy is a freaking tank. If she gets into a tight spot, she needs an adult to help her fight and move things, as well as reach stuff high up. Could you imagine him taking a beating like the one he can take at the end of Episode 2, but to protect Clementine?

          • That would be one hell of a turn of events, wouldn't it.

            In my opinion, Kenny might try to flat out kill the guy, and would definitely expose him. Remember, this guy pointed a gun at Duck's head. "Kenny will definitely remember that."

            I'd really like to see a major character arc turn for him. I bet telltale saved that decision in whatever files they had for choices that might impact future episode (it is determining a characters status, if only between presumed dead and confirmed dead).

            It would be a scenario lots of players would encounter as most choose to let him live (if only because they didn't want to kill him in front of Clementine).

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              TheDuck BANNED

              Yeah, and it's like I said above:

              Second, it's be a great way to show the players that their decisions from the first season really did matter, perhaps in ways they didn't expect. Will people who left them alive to be cruel or even out of a desire to shield Clem suddenly regret it, realizing their actions may have put her in a great amount of danger, which Lee is not around to protect her from?

  • I get the impression you're a big fan of the St. John story arc. But the fact is, too much is against them for either brother to make an appearance in S2, outside of a possible cameo.

    Even if you leave Andy AND Danny alive, you've left Andy beaten to a pulp, and Danny's foot mangled by a bear trap. The farm is being overrun by walkers, which includes their newly-turned mother. Their chances of survival are even lower than Kenny's. What would be the point of bringing them back from such a definitive end like that?

    To further complicate matters, what if the player imports a save where he/she murdered Danny, but not Andy? Or vice versa? I think Telltale would only have the ability to juggle so many scenarios in S2 before their brains would burn out. IMO, it's best to leave the St. Johns to rot in S1. They definitely deserve it.

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      TheDuck BANNED

      You don't have to beat Andy up that badly. You can actually leave him with minimal physical damage. And the fact that he can still stand after you've done either shows how strong he is. Also, didn't you leave his gun behind, right near him? If he were able to pull himself together, surviving is certainly not impossible. He could certainly manage to shut himself into the barn until things quiet down.

      As for Danny, in my scenario, he dies with way. If you kill Andy, there is no one there to even attempt to help him, so it's likely the Walkers get him or he dies from the trap. Even if Andy lives, they'd probably be trapped in the barn, where there might not be something to remove said trap. Even if he can, it's unlikely he can treat him enough to ensure his survival. If he has to kill his Walker brother, and Clementine has killed the turning Lee, that's yet another painful thing they can have in common.

      • So what would happen if the player imported a save where Lee killed Andy?

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          TheDuck BANNED

          Then this scenario never happens. It will change things a lot, and that's what a fair amount of players want. We all enjoyed the differences in our experiences, then started to get irritated upon realizing how little our choices actually changed things. This made TellTale say they plan to have more story branching in Season 2.

  • Well, if thus doesn't happen, I guess I could write a fan fiction about it.

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      TheDuck BANNED

      Was totally thinking that.

      I also thought more about the scenario of Andy getting beat up to protect Clem. Being a child who people are supposed to protect, maybe they are chased somewhere by, say, Nate, and he hides her and gets beat up refusing to reveal her location. We are talking about people who probably want to do something horrible to her. Clementine is repeatedly given the option to reveal herself while listening to this brutality, leading up to them eventually saying they'll just kill him. But then, odds are they'll do that anyway if she comes out, and then all his suffering would have been for nothing. What to do?

      • I honestly would like to see Nate and Clementine in a group together.

        Is it weird that I want two psychopaths to ally with Clementine? With Nate, I would want the precondition of someone else being in the group with him. All I know is that there would never be a dull moment with him. He never seemed to be interested in children in that way.

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          TheDuck BANNED

          Nate just completely creeped me out. As evidenced by me wanting Andy- who has his faults-to protect Clem from him.

          • Hypothetical trolltage games choice:

            Pick your poison:

            Save Nate or Andrew St. John.

            Also, this is from a recent tweet from telltale: Who will you trust and how will you survive? #IamClementine

            There seems to be a lot of focus on trust. I'm really hoping whoever you team up with impacts the story in some way. At times, you might not have a choice wether or not to trust someone, you have to in order to survive.

            Also, I sent you a PM.

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              TheDuck BANNED

              Andrew all the way. Even with all Andy did, I find Nate's behavior so much more disturbing.

              • If they came out of nowhere, I'd choose Nate. If I felt that Andrew had changed, I'd choose him.

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                  TheDuck BANNED

                  Really? Nate murdered two elderly people, nearly let Russel die multiple times, and had a sleazy attitude towards females.

                  Even if Andy hadn't changed, I think I'd still be more inclined to choose him.

                  I wish we could show this idea to TellTale.

                  • Well, maybe some of them do look at the forums. Maybe they already planed something like this.

                  • In an apocalypse you don't get to be sentimental.
                    Nate chooses his own friends and foes and he seems like he care about his allies (most of the time)
                    On the other hand, Nate had a teammate as well, who got shot by Eddie. No wonder he has gone a bit wayward.

                    What is want to say is that Nate is not a good person. He is a survivalist and I would be happy to see Clementine on his good side. It seems a bit like Nate wanted Russel to be his sidekick or something anyway.

      • Help Nate. I like Nate.

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