About that state senator Lee killed...

edited November 2013 in The Walking Dead

For a man who basically set Lee's entire story in S1 into motion, we know next to nothing about him, aside from one conversation between Lee and Clem in the back of the drug store:

"The man you killed...was he one of the monsters?"

"No."

"Was he bad?"

"Yes he was."

Lee was apologetic about the murder itself, but not about the nature of the person he killed...which seems to suggest the senator must have been a real piece of work to send Lee into a rage. But that also begs the question of what Lee's wife could have seen in such a horrible human being. Did she sleep with him merely to spite Lee? Did she have a moment of weakness after fighting with Lee, and was drawn to the senator's good looks and power? Or is there something else we're missing?

Comments

  • the unnamed senator did sleep with lee wife so that will send most men into a rage some cases it causes murder or a beat down of a life time

  • I think screwing his wife would automatically put him in Lee's list of bad people.

  • edited November 2013

    "Because he was screwing my wife" doesn't exactly sound like enough justification to say to a little girl without so much as batting an eyelid that he was a bad man who deserved to be put down. I'm more inclined to think Lee knew of the senator to some capacity before murdering him.

    Michael7123 posted: »

    I think screwing his wife would automatically put him in Lee's list of bad people.

  • Well sleeping with a married person does indeed make you a bad person

    But I agree I would have liked some more in depth information on Lee's past, it would be nice to know exactly how and why it went down. Perhaps Clem will run into someone who knew Lee pre zombies in season 2 that can shed some light on Lee's past running up to the zombies

  • This is a question I asked myself while playing. Lee is a very friendly, well-adjusted character. He is also very intelligent, sober and has a clear intellect. He is a normal guy and not the kind of person falling into a deep rage to even kill a guy JUST because he screwed his wife. The senator being not only an asshole but an abysmally evil person is the only explanation for me how Lee could crack up this much. As a university professor Lee has very good knowledge of human nature, thus he must have known about the senator very well. I reckon he knew something about him others haven't (besides the sex with his wife), something crucial to warrant the murder. We can just speculate: the senator is a politician, and politicians are often "all show, no subtance", preaching water, drinking wine. We know Lee was into History and Social Studies and I think he is kind of the person having a great sense of justice and despising false Messiahs. Just thinking.

  • Do you think we as a whole take the stance of Lee couldn't just fly off the handle like that because we played as him and grew an emotional attachment to the character. Plus we played as Lee so we almost think of Lee as an extension of ourselves and its something you couldn't see yourself doing? Killing someone because they slept with your significant other is at all out of the "norm" it happens on the daily in real life and it doesn't make you a bad person, it would make Lee a guy who was put into a crappy emotionally charged situation where he acted in the worst possible manner imaginable. "Normal" nice people snap like this all the time

    TheMissus posted: »

    This is a question I asked myself while playing. Lee is a very friendly, well-adjusted character. He is also very intelligent, sober

  • Lee towards the end of the season begins to have a real obsession with Clem and I could easily see him in the same emotional state in regards to his ex-wife.

    When fighting Andy, Lee will constantly punch him outside of the players control despite him having the clear advantage. The reflection in the puddle of Lee is a classic use to show a 'what have I become' situation.

    And later when confronting the Stranger Lee will again have the option of killing him just because he took a person he was obsessed with from him.

    In regards to his obsessive behavior is Lee really any different to Loretta or the Stranger when it comes to Clem. He is more than capable of killing another human when it involves his loved ones, a nice alpha male behavior.

  • Well, sleeping with a man's wife will any man into a raging and murdering person. I would like to learn more about Lee's part and the senator and Lee's wife.

  • edited November 2013

    "Lee is a very friendly, well-adjusted character. He is also very intelligent, sober and has a clear intellect."

    Yeah i don't know... i mean i kind of agree with you but only because that's how i played my lee. The way i see it is, there're 2 versions of lee one before the outbreak (how he actually was) and after the outbreak (player version of lee), that said i think it's hard to know how lee actually reacted in that scenario, without an actual flashback.

    Maybe he was really impulsive/obssesive and changed after the dead started walking.

    TheMissus posted: »

    This is a question I asked myself while playing. Lee is a very friendly, well-adjusted character. He is also very intelligent, sober

  • If you tell Clem that Lee killed someone in episode 3 (not, "I was on my way to prison", but "I killed someone"), Lee says that "it was a bad thing and their's no explaining it." Additionally, if you tell Katjaa directly that you killed someone, she asks, "would he have killed you?" Lee says he didn't know.

    Either way, even though the senator was an asshole, maybe Lee does regret killing him.

    "Because he was screwing my wife" doesn't exactly sound like enough justification to say to a little girl without so much as batting

  • You do see a bit of lee's rage during the game (like all good survivors) him pushing Lilly into the Rv, him threatening Ben in ep 4. Those are just a few you cant choose either there are plenty when Lee can be more aggressive.

    Honestly it's because most people choose the very nice option in every dialogue that Lee is seen more in that way.

  • Of course he looses his temper - I mean a zombie apocalypse with hungry zombies, people betraying you trying to kill you, while trying to take care of a little girl is a bit more fucked up than a man having sex with your wife.

    You do see a bit of lee's rage during the game (like all good survivors) him pushing Lilly into the Rv, him threatening Ben in ep 4.

  • Not really in my opinion the betrayal of his wife might be taken way worse than everything in a ZA. I always thought he may have killed the pair of them but I wasn't sure. Not that he intended but from the dream in ep 1 thats what I gathered

    TheMissus posted: »

    Of course he looses his temper - I mean a zombie apocalypse with hungry zombies, people betraying you trying to kill you, while trying to take care of a little girl is a bit more fucked up than a man having sex with your wife.

  • You never get all the details of what happened for obvious reasons. You know Lee caught his wife cheating after leaving his teaching job at the university early because he wasn't feeling well, and it lead to a violent altercation. I assume Lee lost control and acted on emotion. When he's ask if the guy he killed would have killed him he can't answer. Lee uses facial expressions that show he takes responsibility for his actions, but that he's good person who is full of regret and guilt for all the pain he caused his family.

  • I killed both brothers because I felt that letting a serial killing cannibal go free was irresponsible. Lee wasn't obessed with Clem either. He was taking care of her like a real man. He was being harrassed by strangers in the end. Kenny never questioned Lee's role or behavior with Clem because it's not an obsession anymore than he had obsession with his son. A stranger like Vernon asking Lee to take her off his hands is so out of place it makes him sound like a weird pervert.

    Mookan posted: »

    Lee towards the end of the season begins to have a real obsession with Clem and I could easily see him in the same emotional state i

  • edited November 2013

    He says he ruined his life and regrets what he did to his family. Then he finds out his family is dead making Clem all he has at that point.

    Michael7123 posted: »

    If you tell Clem that Lee killed someone in episode 3 (not, "I was on my way to prison", but "I killed someone"), Lee says that "it

  • Well, if you spared Danny, he's in a room stuck in a beartrap beside an armed psychopath whose father was killed partially because of the St. John brothers. And if you spared Andy, he doesn't want to get up, he just wants to let himself get killed by the zombies that are now overrunning the farm. So, it's more like they both die anyway(even if Lily didn't kill Danny, he's going to die of blood loss or get eaten by a walker, whichever happens first), but Lee gets to decide if he's the one to kill them.

    I killed both brothers because I felt that letting a serial killing cannibal go free was irresponsible. Lee wasn't obessed with Clem

  • I got the feeling Lee was framed for the murder, and because the victim had a relationship with his wife it was near impossible to deny it so he more or less accepted guilt for it.
    It seems very out of character for Lee to actually murder someone, in whatever state he may have been in. Because if he would really have killed before he should have been much less troubled offing people after the apocalypse who actually endangered his or Clem's survival.

    But perhaps i read something in it that wasn't there.

  • edited November 2013

    Lee loses his temper a couple of times with Kenny. If you fight him in episode three Lee loses his temper if he wins. The choices they give Lee in episode five when Kenny talks about him being bitten were stupid for Lee. Kenny is right, but Lee is in denial even though I accepted that it meant death and had chose Kenny to take care of Clem in episode 4 as soon he calls lee and clem family. I saw Lee and Kenny as close as any brothers in the end. They were protecting the most innocent characters in the game. Kenny saw Lee as a good man he trusted with Duck so much he could take Lee at his word after he tries to tell him about his past. Kenny isn't interested in hearing more about his past.

    trez1336 posted: »

    Do you think we as a whole take the stance of Lee couldn't just fly off the handle like that because we played as him and grew an em

  • No he definatly did or why would he admit to it. Even the most mild mannered people can snap when in an intense situation. His wife betrayed him and he snapped that dosnt mean he's evil or dosnt regret it.

    PluX posted: »

    I got the feeling Lee was framed for the murder, and because the victim had a relationship with his wife it was near impossible to d

  • I wonder if a relative of the senator will have a lucky run-in with Clementine and fill us in with what exactly happened between the senator, Lee, and his wife?

  • Whatever decisions you made the first time you play is what matters. It changes the reason behind the choice If you let him go before you knowing what happens and it has nothing to with how you made the choice. It's a lot different.

    Well, if you spared Danny, he's in a room stuck in a beartrap beside an armed psychopath whose father was killed partially because o

  • edited November 2013

    I thought he killed his wife and the guy for a long time and still found him to a good person. I'm pretty sure I heard Dave Fennoy say that once as well.

    PluX posted: »

    I got the feeling Lee was framed for the murder, and because the victim had a relationship with his wife it was near impossible to d

  • FreddeN93FreddeN93 Banned
    edited November 2013

    "I killed a man in a fight". Sounds to me the Senator was either trying to fight Lee, or provoking Lee to fight him. I'm sure Lee didn't want to kill him in the first place, but it either resulted in the Senator not giving up, forcing Lee to do what he did to save his own life. Or maybe the Senator fell with his head in a corner and died on the second.

    I really hope we get to take more part of Lee's story in Season Two. I don't think we will run into Lee's ex-wife as Clementine... Or perhaps we will? What if his ex-wife have been trying to find Lee after the apocalypse broke out, perhaps she saw the errors the Senator did. Her first target would be Macon, perhaps she find the Motor Inn, and for whatever reason find out Lee headed to Savannah. I know it's a longshot, but who else could we run into who know about Lee's history other than his ex-wife, brother, and parents?

  • I'm pretty sure I read up about Dave Fennoy saying that too. Can't remember if Telltale confirmed that or not.

    I thought he killed his wife and the guy for a long time and still found him to a good person. I'm pretty sure I heard Dave Fennoy say that once as well.

  • We never hear much about his wife or the senator so it's opened for something out of the blue TT could do the only question is: what to do?
    I personally thought when the Stranger first took Clem and he said "I want you to never hurt anyone again" it had something to do with his wife or the senator but I was wrong but it would be interesting to see something come up in S2.
    I mean, Lee's wife's status is currently unknown so anything can happen but I doubt TT would add her in.
    And for your first part, Lee as he said came home and found her in bed with him, so his of course went into a rage, him and the senator have had a scruff and his done something that's killed the senator by accident, remember when they were walking through the woods to the dairy and Carleys ask you exactly what happened and you have the option to say "It was an accident"?

    FreddeN93 posted: »

    "I killed a man in a fight". Sounds to me the Senator was either trying to fight Lee, or provoking Lee to fight him. I'm sure Lee di

  • "Kenny is right..."
    It was a horrible time to bring up that fact, though, especially since he is causing panic. He was right, if he turned, they would be in danger, but I wouldn't have someone end me if I'm not truly dead, that would suck bad.

    Lee loses his temper a couple of times with Kenny. If you fight him in episode three Lee loses his temper if he wins. The choices th

  • Remember one of the choice options on Ep. 1 suggests that his Ex wife is in Virginia. She could be alive, dead, or walker.

    Not really in my opinion the betrayal of his wife might be taken way worse than everything in a ZA. I always thought he may have killed the pair of them but I wasn't sure. Not that he intended but from the dream in ep 1 thats what I gathered

  • Possible, but unlikely nor necessary: I think Clem will come across more facts as she goes through in another way.

    RichWalk23 posted: »

    I wonder if a relative of the senator will have a lucky run-in with Clementine and fill us in with what exactly happened between the senator, Lee, and his wife?

  • During Lee's dream, you hear glass shattering: What do you think happened? Did Lee hear her saying "I love you, baby" through the door, suspecting who it was (remember, he said he suspected an affair at one point) the senator, and broke in? No, that makes no sense; why would he break into his own house? Maybe he accidentally managed to throw the senator out a window during the fight (Dreams aren't always clear or chronological in events, so it could have skipped right to his death, passing the excess dialog that may have happened during the real event). Just a thought.

  • That's what I thought happened when I heard Lee's dream.

    I also thought that his wife screaming was either the shock of seeing the senator being pushed out of the window...or the wife herself, if the theory of Lee killing his wife as well is to be taken into account.

    During Lee's dream, you hear glass shattering: What do you think happened? Did Lee hear her saying "I love you, baby" through the d

  • The game lets everyone create a unique exerpience, and this is one of the parts that can seem really out of place for some. I can understand how some players can see it the way you do. A lot depends on how you view Kenny at that point in the game. That changes how players view the situation in a pretty dramatic way. He might sound hostile to some, but it didn't come off that way at all to me. After getting the positive response from Kenny at the end of episode four, along with everything else from that point didn't fit with Lee's reaction. The calm and respectful way Lee and Kenny interact with each toward the end is a lot different . They don't argue the same way as before(including Kenny's reaction to finding out the truth if Lee hides the bite), and are obviously in a much different stage of their friendship than anytime before.

    Lee even shows he's accepted his fate when he ask Kenny to make sure that Clem wears a life-jacket when they get out on the boat since he doesn't think she will like it. He acknowledges that he understands his fate and has accepted the reality of what that means by saying that. He wasn't in denial. I understand what they were trying to do though. After it was over and I told Kenny I was sorry and he resonded something like "It's okay. I get it.", I saw they were trying to show Lee in denial. It just came way too late in the story to work that way for me.

    "Kenny is right..." It was a horrible time to bring up that fact, though, especially since he is causing panic. He was right, if he turned, they would be in danger, but I wouldn't have someone end me if I'm not truly dead, that would suck bad.

  • I don't remember any dream. Carley playthrough? I picked Doug.

    RichWalk23 posted: »

    That's what I thought happened when I heard Lee's dream. I also thought that his wife screaming was either the shock of seeing th

  • It's just a little audio as Lee wakes from a nightmare while sleeping in the barn on Hershel's farm in episode one.

    Zurrdroid posted: »

    I don't remember any dream. Carley playthrough? I picked Doug.

  • Ah, but Lee's wife may not have been killed by Lee: One of the choices in Ep. 1 suggests otherwise, when you talk to Shawn Greene. Lee says "My Ex wife. I think she's in Virginia." So she could be alive, dead, or walker.

    RichWalk23 posted: »

    That's what I thought happened when I heard Lee's dream. I also thought that his wife screaming was either the shock of seeing th

  • Lee's character isn't a blank slate, but I think that there are some blanks that we're supposed to fill in for ourselves.

    Personally I don't imagine that the senator was a good guy, but I don't think Telltale wanted to come out and clearly show him as being one way or the other. If we saw the murder and witnessed the senator as being just some violent brute, it may have lessened the impact of Lee trying to hide or explain the fact that he was a convicted killer.

  • Depends on whether you believe that Lee was telling the truth.

    But then again he couldn't have been lying, since the [LIE] prefix wasn't there in his dialogue choice.

    Ah, but Lee's wife may not have been killed by Lee: One of the choices in Ep. 1 suggests otherwise, when you talk to Shawn Greene. Lee says "My Ex wife. I think she's in Virginia." So she could be alive, dead, or walker.

  • Huh. Oy yeah, at the barn. Thanks for clearing that up.

    It's just a little audio as Lee wakes from a nightmare while sleeping in the barn on Hershel's farm in episode one.

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