Kenny the selfish coward hillbilly wanabee

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  • edited December 2013

    I felt neutral-to-dislike toward kenny.

    I certainly agree that I would have preferred Katjaa more, although I feel she would be less adept at surviving alone than he.

    But I think he is definitely selfish, rather annoying and really quite horrible to Lee.

    His actions in the meat locker were abhorrent.

    Some people view him as their bro. That's fine, I viewed Lilly as my bro until Telltale made it so she had to leave.

    Regardless, I feel his character arc was tied up well in episode 5, sacrificing himself and saying that he didn't want to live as his family were dead.

    It seems weird that he will now return, having said that he wanted to die, but whatever. As long as he isn't rammed down the throats of those that don't like him, as he was last season, it will be fine.

    Same applies to those who hated omid and christa.

  • I don't know, I thought he was interesting. I mean, people would then complain about how Kenny is Lee's number one fan and a complete suck up so being a good guy and then a asshole and then sacrifing himself is good character development.

  • It's interesting how there are so many complaints directed towards "Kenny fanboys" in this forum, and yet the threads declaring how much they absolutely loathe the character far outweigh the ones that try to list his virtues.

  • The only time I saw kenny run away in fear was while holding his son all the way back in episode 1.

    The only other times he doesn't help lee when he should is due to "you didn't help me/you didn't help my family" grudges which are avoidable if you side with him and his family.(hell, in episode 1 he saves you regardless of that as well)

    And opposite to Lilly, who lost her shit when her dad died. Kenny didn't betray or back stab or kill anyone when his family died. Hell, he accepts the necessity of killing duck, and can even optionally kill duck himself, and right after katja commits suicide, no less.

    And then there is his own sacrificing himself at episode 5 to either put Ben out of his missery, or save Christa. And along with that, of the group, he's the one that goes out the most with lee into the danger scouting, searching, scavenging or fighting.throughout the season. Spending less time than most on wherever they are temporarily staying.

    Now Kenny may be a jerk, he may be selfish. he may be stupid. All of those are debatable. But the last thing I'd call kenny is a coward. No doubt about it, he's one of least pussy-ish characters of the entire twd cast.

  • edited December 2013

    You get more individual threads complaining about Kenny, but within the threads themselves there is much more Kenny fanboyism than Kenny pragmatism or Kenny hate.

    Even on entirely unrelated threads, people say 'oooh I hope Kenny will be there' 'do you think that was Kenny' 'I though Molly was okay but Kenny was better! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D'

    Besides, in the last few days I have counted at least 3 threads asking hopefully whether Kenny appeared in the trailer or not.

    It's interesting how there are so many complaints directed towards "Kenny fanboys" in this forum, and yet the threads declaring how much they absolutely loathe the character far outweigh the ones that try to list his virtues.

  • edited December 2013

    But that one time Kenny ran away in fear is kind of a big deal, considering it got someone killed. Plus, I wouldn't consider his sacrifice in ep. 5 is all that heroic seeing as he was clearly suicidal at the time, at least in the Ben scenario. And he wasn't exactly all that courageous with Duck either. He basically completely ignored the situation until the last minute and gave his wife absolutely no emotional support when she needed it the most, and he needed Lee to either tell him to get over it or beat the shit out of him to deal with the situation.

    And lets not forget that Kenny can basically tell Clem to go fuck herself in ep.4 based on a petty grudge against her guardian. Though I guess that has more to do with being selfish than being cowardly...

    Also, it's not really fair to compare Kenny's situation with Lilly's. In Lilly's case, people within her own group she trusted killed a loved one with little warning or time to come to terms with the death, while Kenny had all the time in the world to accept it and had no one to blame for it. Which is why he took out his anger on Katjaa, then Lee, then Ben, with little to no justification. Makes complete sense that Lilly would become a paranoid nutcase while Kenny didn't.

  • I don't like Kenny, but I don't think he's a coward.

    He's a self-centred, overreacting scumbag who would calculatingly kill another person (contrasting with Lilly who did it out of fleeting emotion, not planning), but he isn't a coward.

    And that is just my opinion, that most likely won't change. I am disappointed that Telltale are bringing him back, as his sacrifice in episode 5 was one of the few times where I said to myself 'You know what? Kenny is alright.', and bringing him back nullifies that completely. But oh well, still looking forward to it, and it's not like I'll reject his help if he offers it.

    I'll just keep an eye open for another betrayal or bloodlust like in the meat locker.

  • edited December 2013

    not even close ... ive even seen the mods combine several threads lately about kenny because theres so many "pro-kenny".

    It's interesting how there are so many complaints directed towards "Kenny fanboys" in this forum, and yet the threads declaring how much they absolutely loathe the character far outweigh the ones that try to list his virtues.

  • any regular on these forums knows my stance on the backstabber

  • All the Kenny talk aside, that is the thing I have the most trouble comprehending.

    So because a character didn't die during a heroïc action, then it's not heroïc ?
    You're going to tell me that, say, Superman... Nothing he ever did was heroïc because he's still alive ? You're going to tell me that when Christa got out of the train to get Omid back it wasn't heroïc because she didn't sacrifice herself and actually made it out alive ?

    Absolutely no disrespect intended, but I think that is completely retarded. You can say that the scene lost it's "Final Character Moment" thing, but that it lost any sense of heroïsm/courage is utterly wrong.

    Flog61 posted: »

    I don't like Kenny, but I don't think he's a coward. He's a self-centred, overreacting scumbag who would calculatingly kill anoth

  • Even on entirely unrelated threads, people say 'oooh I hope Kenny will be there' 'do you think that was Kenny' 'I though Molly was okay but Kenny was better! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D'

    Is that direct quote, or are you just making vague generalizations?

    Flog61 posted: »

    You get more individual threads complaining about Kenny, but within the threads themselves there is much more Kenny fanboyism than K

  • Those are not direct quotes, but I didn't ever claim they were?

    I'm not saying every Kenny fan does it, or even that most do. It's just an observation; look at the number of threads made that asked whether kenny was in the trailer. Look at the Season 2 thread recently.

    Besides, the Molly one was very similar to a comment I saw on a thread a while back.

    Even on entirely unrelated threads, people say 'oooh I hope Kenny will be there' 'do you think that was Kenny' 'I though Molly was okay but Kenny was better! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D' Is that direct quote, or are you just making vague generalizations?

  • Indeed. They did that with the 'IS THAT KENNY?' threads about the trailer in the past couple days.

    not even close ... ive even seen the mods combine several threads lately about kenny because theres so many "pro-kenny".

  • edited December 2013

    I'm not saying the scene was heroic because he died. In fact, I don't think I ever said it was heroic, so you're running on a false assumption. Actually, I never said he lacked courage either, so I question if you fully read my comment, but anyway.

    I'm saying it was a fitting end to his story, and a kind action, and indeed one that made me like him more, because of the big speech he made about how he doesn't mind sacrificing himself because he has nothing left to live for.

    At that moment it didn't sound like he wanted to live anymore. So I find it surprising that he fought his way out of a very difficult situation, bearing that in mind.

    The fact that he survived makes me skeptical that he was being genuine when he said he didn't want to live anymore. I mean, he must have fought incredibly hard to survive that building or the alleyway with very few bullets.

    I don't want to necessarily call him a liar, but his words certainly don't match his actions.

    Plus I forgot to say, another reason I didn't like him was because of the disgusting way he treated Ben. It was shameful.

    Byakuren posted: »

    All the Kenny talk aside, that is the thing I have the most trouble comprehending. So because a character didn't die during a her

  • I liked Kenny

  • if you don't side with him every time, (for example the duck/shawn situation) he will not ever save you, or help you in any way. In fact he goes out of his way to try to get you killed.

  • the big difference is that superman knows hes not really in any danger

    Byakuren posted: »

    All the Kenny talk aside, that is the thing I have the most trouble comprehending. So because a character didn't die during a her

  • To be fair, and I say this as a fellow Kenny skeptic, Kenny does save your life at the end of episode one regardless of how you treat him.

    if you don't side with him every time, (for example the duck/shawn situation) he will not ever save you, or help you in any way. In fact he goes out of his way to try to get you killed.

  • lol yea, and then when someone makes a single "anti-kenny" thread the kenny fans act like theres tons of them. To me it seems they can't stand that not everybody likes kenny like they do.

    Flog61 posted: »

    Indeed. They did that with the 'IS THAT KENNY?' threads about the trailer in the past couple days.

  • edited December 2013

    Totally useless thread. For the "Kenny Hate" we have deadk1ng´s thread. http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/30858/f-kenny/p147

  • You don't need to say if it was heroïc or not, it just was. Someone goes in a building full of flames to save a child, risking his life in the process, that's heroïc even if you think the opposite for X reasons.

    I really scratched my brain but I don't ever recall him saying he wanted to die. If anything it's the opposite, in Episode 5 he says he grieves Katjaa because she killed herself and left everyone struggling. He also says something like this later on "You don't just end it because it's hard, you stick it out and help each other". I don't see AT ALL how that means he wants to die. Unless somehow in your playthrough the choices you picked made him the complete opposite of that, but I doubt it, because IIRC the Katjaa speech triggers if you have Ben and the other triggers if you let him die, so regardless of your choices he should pretty much declare his will to live one way or the other.

    You pretty much implied that his action reddemed him in your eyes, then said that it didn't anymore because he didn't die. I don't really understand how I can take that any other way ?

    I agree, the way he treated Ben was awful, I understand him though and if someone caused the death of my child and wife, even indirectly, I'd wish the guy dead.

    Flog61 posted: »

    I'm not saying the scene was heroic because he died. In fact, I don't think I ever said it was heroic, so you're running on a false

  • I'm not talking about TV Superman, comics Superman escaped deaths situations many times to save someone/something. the fact he didn't die renders all his actions unimpressive to you ? That's a twisted way of seeing a hero.

    the big difference is that superman knows hes not really in any danger

  • I'm saying it was a fitting end to his story, and a kind action, and indeed one that made me like him more, because of the big speech he made about how he doesn't mind sacrificing himself because he has nothing left to live for.

    I don't remember Kenny saying that. He actually said the opposite after seeing the couple who committed suicide. He said committing suicide is wrong, and that they should keep trying to help each other no matter what happens, or something along those lines anyway.

    Flog61 posted: »

    I'm not saying the scene was heroic because he died. In fact, I don't think I ever said it was heroic, so you're running on a false

  • But that's the same for the other character that you can influence you relationship with, Lilly. Lilly and Kenny are supposed to be assholes if you don't support them and loyal friends if you do. If you don't support Lilly she lets Andy St John burn your face with the electric fence, she accuses you of being the one who stole the supplies and of course, kill Carley/Doug. And if you don't support Kenny he doesn't help you against Danny and doesn't help you lifting the door in the drugstore.

    Thing is, even if you support Lilly to the max, she still kills Carley/Doug and ditches you out of the RV. Kenny never leaves you even if you try to ditch him by hiding the bite and saying you want to go alone.

    I'm not saying any of them is better than the other (though the story clearly points that out), i'm saying they're like 2 face of the same coin. Any blame you put on Kenny, you can put on Lilly and vice-versa.

    if you don't side with him every time, (for example the duck/shawn situation) he will not ever save you, or help you in any way. In fact he goes out of his way to try to get you killed.

  • You're being dramatic. You're going to tell me that if we saw someone that might've resembled Lilly then we wouldn't have had a crapton of "WAS THAT LILLY ???".

    It would've been the same if it had been Lilly or Glenn or any other KNOWN character.

    Besides maybe if you stopped making assumptions you'd have less reactions, just like that "they can't stand that not everybody likes kenny like they do.", you imply everyone that likes Kenny is trying to force it on the others, that's disrespectful and might hurt some people to be generalized that way just because they like a character you don't.

    lol yea, and then when someone makes a single "anti-kenny" thread the kenny fans act like theres tons of them. To me it seems they can't stand that not everybody likes kenny like they do.

  • edited December 2013

    how is that dramatic in the slightest bit? Sounds to me you are the one being dramatic judging by your response. And where did i make any assumptions whatsoever? An observation and opinion aren't assumptions, they are an observation and opinion. If your worried about people not loving kenny and it offends you, then don't go into an "anti-kenny" thread like this one. And it is a fact that some, not all, kenny fans do try to push kenny onto others, not that I even said that in the first place though...

    Byakuren posted: »

    You're being dramatic. You're going to tell me that if we saw someone that might've resembled Lilly then we wouldn't have had a crap

  • edited December 2013

    Lilly apologises for ditching you in the RV (if you say you won't leave).

    If you say you will leave her, the only reason you can't go with her is due to having too big of a plot split; that doesn't relate to her character.

    I'm not sure what you mean about lilly letting your face be burned, I supported Lilly all the time and I managed to fight Andy off....why would she in particular be able to help?

    She accuses you of stealing supplies because she has to accuse everyone. Everyone is a suspect in cases like that.

    In my opinion, Kenny refusing to help you rescue clementine is worse than Lilly leaving in the RV.

    If we look at both characters kill totals, indirect and direct, you have

    Lilly: Doug/Carley (after being traumatised by having her father murdered brutally in front of her) = 1

    Kenny: Shawn, Larry = 2

    I know who I would trust more, the woman induced to mistrust and murder by a brutal slaughter and loss of everything she had, not some guy who runs away from a trapped man, or decides to kill a man without even trying to make him breath.

    Again, this is all my opinion, and you are perfectly entitled to your own.

    I'm interested, however: when does the story, quote 'clearly point out' that either Lilly or Kenny is better? I thought they were rather ambiguous characters.

    Byakuren posted: »

    But that's the same for the other character that you can influence you relationship with, Lilly. Lilly and Kenny are supposed to be

  • ...I'm talking about the bit in the alley, not in the room? He talks about having lost the thing he needed to be alive for: his family.

    raptor posted: »

    I'm saying it was a fitting end to his story, and a kind action, and indeed one that made me like him more, because of the big speec

  • Kenny surviving after having locked himself in the alleyway saying that he had no reason to live means that he was lying, as he must have fought his way tooth and nail.

    Actually I've just had a though: if Kenny wanted to live, then why did he lock himself in the alley? He could easily have shot ben then run to the door.

    The only reason I could think of him doing that is that he doesn't want to live.

    Byakuren posted: »

    You don't need to say if it was heroïc or not, it just was. Someone goes in a building full of flames to save a child, risking his l

  • Pardon me but "To me it seems they can't stand that not everybody likes kenny like they do."

    You flat out assume everyone that likes Kenny can't stand other people not liking him.

    Then second assumption "If your worried about people not loving kenny and it offends you, then don't go into an "anti-kenny" thread like this one".

    In short you're telling me that I'm a Kenny fanboy and that I have nothing to do here. Unless you have no idea what words you use to express yourself then yeah, your assumptions are rude and might hurt some people. You should pay more attention to how you form your sentences, is all I want to say.

    how is that dramatic in the slightest bit? Sounds to me you are the one being dramatic judging by your response. And where did i ma

  • I think he locked himself because if he brought up the fact that he was going to put Ben out of his misery then Lee would have protested, losing time and giving the chance to walkers to eat him. At that point even if you were an asshole to him, Kenny cares about you and don't want to put Lee (and thus Clementine) in danger because of something he HAS to do to redeem himself to Ben.

    I still don't understand how you can doubt he wants to live after the speeches he gave about not giving up for everything. Did you get any of those speeches ? Or did you do something in your playthrough that might've "pushed him" into despair or something ?

    During my 1st playthrough I've been an ass to him (though don't intended to, didn't save Duck, sided with Lilly in the meatlocker) and he still had the same speeches so I don't know.

    Flog61 posted: »

    Kenny surviving after having locked himself in the alleyway saying that he had no reason to live means that he was lying, as he must

  • obviously you are grossly misunderstanding me, or aren't actually READING my post. your assuming that i'm assuming, even though I clearly just posted my opinion ("TO ME it seems...") And I never said your a fanboy, you said that. Your putting words in my mouth. (IF your worried...)

    please don't try to start arguments based on assumptions...

    Byakuren posted: »

    Pardon me but "To me it seems they can't stand that not everybody likes kenny like they do." You flat out assume everyone that li

  • the link wont work for me for some reason, (on a ps3) but if it's the "FUCK kenny" thread, it doesn't post like it should. (you cant post like on this one, every post goes to the bottom no matter what.)

    WalkerHH93 posted: »

    Totally useless thread. For the "Kenny Hate" we have deadk1ng´s thread. http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/30858/f-kenny/p147

  • Apologizing ain't forgiving, for me at least. During my 1st playthrough I sided with Kenny on the fallout but I still treated her well and tried to save her dad in the meatlocker, and even then she ditched me and Clementine out on the road after saying we could leave with the 3 of us, putting me and Clementine in danger of being eat by walkers or starving with no means of transport. That's not something a mere "sorry" can forgive.

    If you don't help to save Larry when Andy brings your face close to the fence she won't react and turn her head away. If you support her she shoots him, it's exactly the same as Kenny not helping you in other situations.

    She accuses you if you don't support her, saying something like "If you don't find anything I'm going to assume it was you", if you support her she says something like "Thank you Lee, you're the only one I know I can trust entirely". Again, the same as Kenny.

    You like her more, that's fine by me, I'm not trying to change your mind at all, differing opinions are the blood of debates after all. I'm pretty much neutral towards the both of them since they were supposed to be mirror sides of each other, I like them both equally.

    If you take an absolute impartial stance then the story clearly points that Kenny is "better" because he doesn't stay an asshole whatever you do. If he disappeared/died being an asshole then they'd have been the same. Thing is, Lilly leaves as an asshole whatever happens (leaving you out on the road, putting you in danger for no reason), on the other hand Kenny apologizes and risk his life to save Christa.

    Feats wise, the game advantages Kenny because he has a redemption part while Lilly doesn't, that's what happens when you get 2 more episodes worth of screentime. That being said, I don't personally think he's better in any way, as I said, I like them both equally.

    Flog61 posted: »

    Lilly apologises for ditching you in the RV (if you say you won't leave). If you say you will leave her, the only reason you can'

  • That one time that is indeed a big deal.However you talk as if kenny had forgotten about it and brushed it aside. When in actuality he is the one person that mentions it and brings it up the most. Hell, it's the reason he took it upon himself that duck's bite was supposedly his fault.

    Giving his wife emotional support? Did you not see their conversation about killing duck, how the hell does he give her emotional support with the state he was in? And needing a friend to help in that situation is bad....what? So I guess lee would be a scumbag if he needed convincing if clem got bit?

    Keeping an eye on the boat is unimportant and unsafe for clem when lee and co. are coming(or lee alone, but in this case kenny doesn't know about lee's bite)?....hell, one of the reasons kenny suggested killing lee if he fell again in the attic was to save her. It's also the main reason he told lee to go and leave him with Ben.

    Oh? So just because she had no time to come to terms means she has people to blame for it? Or that she has the right to blame? Hell didn't you see it yourself? He was blaming himself. I don't remember him taking out his frustration on Katjaa either, and on lee's optional, and on Ben's understandable (not condonable, but understandable).

    Alright, so slightly better situation than Lilly, let's say that for the sake of argument. However main point is. when kenny talked about doing the hard thing, the necessary thing. back in episode 2,(with or without lee's help.) Unlike most others. When it was his turn to do the deed. He did so, he put his money where his mouth is.

    But that one time Kenny ran away in fear is kind of a big deal, considering it got someone killed. Plus, I wouldn't consider his sac

  • The thing is, you think you can say everything because it's an opinion, that doesn't work.

    In my opinion, my neighboor is an asshole. Do you think he's not gonna get angry if I tell him that that's just my opinion ? The sentence "To me it seems they can't stand that not everybody likes kenny like they do." translates to "In my opinion the kenny fanboys can't accept that people don't love their characters" because that's the way you wrote it, even though you didn't mean it that way.

    Like I said, I'm pretty sure you mean no harm, I don't think you're a troll or something but the way you express yourself might be perceived as such. Hence why I think you should put more attention to how you express yourself on such a touchy subject.

    That being said I just wanted get my point across, pick up on it or ignore it is your choice. Peace !

    obviously you are grossly misunderstanding me, or aren't actually READING my post. your assuming that i'm assuming, even though I c

  • except that kenny is fictional, therefore he cant get angy. But anyways...

    agree to disagree i guess.

    Byakuren posted: »

    The thing is, you think you can say everything because it's an opinion, that doesn't work. In my opinion, my neighboor is an assh

  • I like Lilly slightly more. That's just because of her character specific, not Kenny-Lilly binary, actions and words. I feel like she is a better person.

    I don't agree that whatever happens in the story Lilly is an asshole. In my story, Lilly was essentially driven to being neurotic and terrified by Kenny's barbaric actions, and she can't bear to be with the group anymore, so she leaves. I find that totally understandable.

    So I disagree that the story point that Kenny is 'clearly' better. It's not clear at all. It's a personal thing.

    The fact that Kenny gets more screentime doesn't mean that he is better, does it?

    I mean, the Stranger got more screentime than Travis, but does that mean that the Stranger is a much nicer person than Travis?

    Byakuren posted: »

    Apologizing ain't forgiving, for me at least. During my 1st playthrough I sided with Kenny on the fallout but I still treated her we

  • Indeed, that thread seems to be broken somehow.

    the link wont work for me for some reason, (on a ps3) but if it's the "FUCK kenny" thread, it doesn't post like it should. (you cant post like on this one, every post goes to the bottom no matter what.)

  • Yay ! Someone who finally like Lilly !

    Flog61 posted: »

    I felt neutral-to-dislike toward kenny. I certainly agree that I would have preferred Katjaa more, although I feel she would be l

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