• Clementine: girl experiencing puberty .... in the middle of the zombie apocalypse. Damn i thought i did it tough

  • That's great, but why do specifics matter exactly? She's pretty much still a little girl. We're not talking the difference from 9 to 15 here.

    • It actually kind of matters, because it cool to know how much she's changed, and how mature she has become between season 1-2 and in the 16 months. But yeah little past 11th birthday. She had turned 9 in the end of season one, and with that stommach christa's walking around with it's probably been 7 or even 8 months, she looks like she's about to pop...

      Kind of wonder what happened to the baby.. must've been traumatic, also for clem.

  • Hey guys, I havent played season 2 yet but just wondering, did Clementine's voice change drastically? Its ok to tell me please thanks!

  • For me it matters because it stretches the entire timeframe of the apocalypse to the breaking point - she was 8 when Lee found her and became 9 about five months later; then add say 22 months and we are looking at an apocalypse that has been going on for three years. This with apparently no one taking the time to fault check even their sheds, build walls around towns and fucking organize! Apparently people become morons as soon as zombies rear their ugly heads, and as a human I'm deeply offended by that - two years after the end of WW2 when most of Germany had been flattened by the war, Germany was up and running pretty much normally again, and I don't see why a zombiecalypse would be any different.

    Oh yeah... It's Kirkman's work, and he needs to eat. Sorry, forgot that. He is going to stretch this out until he dies.

    • Come on why remind us every time about old germany? How did u went from this thread to that post about germany? I mean come on. :(

    • He does not make the story for this video game though, TT does.

      Also, it's fiction. It might be possible that if something like this happened in real life we perhaps could do something better about it, but that's a big assumption. You can't just compare WW2 to a zombie apocalypse, at least a war has an end, whether it is good or bad. For all we know about the walking dead universe is that it has no need, everyone is sick and everyone who dies becomes a zombie and for many it's not easy to change your behavior, even if it means that you will live another day.

    • So, you think that the game shouldn't portray more contemporary point in the timeline with the comics (and ahead of the TV-show), but all Seasons should happen simultaneously with the first issues of the comic book series? That just doesn't make any sense.

    • There are workarounds for this issue. For me, I prefer to imagine that whatever started this whole thing didn't just involve the already dead people rising up as Walkers, but actually killed off a solid majority of the human race outright through pandemics or some such, somewhat like a less extreme version of The Stand. This would explain how virtually every city appears to be overrun and even military bases fell to the dead, despite how painfully easy it should have been for any military unit worth its salt to counter opponents as brainless and easily tricked as Walkers.

      WIth the overwhelming bulk of the human race now mindless flesh eating monsters, and only a scattered few survivors from the very start of the outbreak, the proposition of the human race not getting back on its feet for years and years makes more sense.

    • This reasoning seems a little ridiculous to me. Apocalypse means it's the end. There isn't necessarily supposed to be a "recovery" and happy ending where they find a cure or some nonsense.

      Comparing it to post WWII Germany is also nonsense. There was recovery because the source of the problem/destruction, namely the war, ended. The zombies don't end, they keep coming and in fact they keep getting worse as more people die. So to say "how could they not organize and rebuild and solve the problem" is pretty...dumb.

      • Logically, there will be an end to the zombies as well - they don't reproduce and will sooner or later just rot away, be destroyed in earthquakes or what have you, not to mention the millions destroyed by the living. There are currently 6 billion people on earth, which means there would eventually be 6 billion zombies or zombie-has-beens.

        Sure, I can buy the entire end of days thing - yet still people demand that Clem will survive, and if they have it their way, we'll see Clem telling her grandkids about the zombie outbreak while sitting on the porch killing zombies with a shotgun.

        Regarding the end of WW2 and Germany, sure, the war ended and made it possible to rebuild the country; however, in that same country, there were literally hundreds of thousands of people that were never directly affected, just as anywhere else. Why? Because a disaster, apocalypse or whatever you may call it is never 100%. Not the extinction of the dinosaurs even.

        And I can think of many ways how it would be possible to reorganize and get shit done, even with the zombies, even with the applied stupidity that way too many zombie franchies slaps on to the survivors (not only TWD that is). We know we have deadly diseases around us today, and we know how to protect ourselves. A zombie outbreak should not be any different. Taking away this survivability and adaptability of humans is for me quite offensive. Humanity managed to get through the bubonic plague and the Spanish flu.

        We deserve better than to be called morons by the zombie creators.

        • they don't reproduce

          Of course they do. It's called "a human being dying." Even if the scattered remnants of humanity got its shit together (and eventually it might, just don't expect it happening within the first few years of the initial zombie outbreak) and reformed society, it could never be the exact same society. Everyone becoming undead upon death fundamentally changes society and human nature. No mundane examples you can pluck from the history books could compare to this scenario.

          Taking away this survivability and adaptability of humans is for me quite offensive.

          But humans HAVE adapted. You just don't seem to like how.

          • Considering how humans have managed overcome everything thrown at us over time and still managed to keep society together shows that humans are more resourceful than any other creature. A zombie outbreak would be just as much an example of a disaster as anything else we have experienced - its just that this (the zombie outbreak) is fictional, and therefore should be treated like something else. You reason like this: we haven't seen any aliens from outer space, so there aren't any; this when I rely on empirical evidence on how humans have survived everything else the world has thrown at us, and for the most part kept society together.

            And this is exactly the reason for why I get pissed off regarding how different creators including Kirkman see humans: like stupid-as-shit loosers just two meals from barbary. We aren't.

            • No offense, but if you don't like how The Walking Dead comics, TV-show and game series have turned recently, you could always stop following them. This is the umpteenth time when you declare that Kirkman should have ended the franchise long time ago and that it should have ended to human victory.

              • Where have I said I don't like TWD? I think its great, but nothing so not too great for improvement, and one area where TWD and other zombiverses have deep issues is just what I was talking about, namely a sense for a timeframe.

                Also, I have NOT, repeat not, said Kirkman should have ended the franchise; I do however say that he should do best in ending it within a reasonable timeframe.

                So stop slapping opinions on me that only comes from yourself. Please.

                • I'm not slapping you with anything, but I answer to only the things which you say. It was the impression I got when you constantly complained that Kirkman is stretching the story for money, if I have misunderstood your message it's either because you didn't word it clearly enough or because I misread your meaning. To me that constant complain indicates that you don't like where the story is going and how the world has developed since the early issues of the comic book.

                • I believe you're oversimplifying a lot of things here. First, you brought up the reconstruction of Germany and although from the outside it would have appeared to have returned to its "former glory" within a few years, the truth of the matter is it could be argued that it took over 30 years for Germany to fully recover from World War II. You bring up other things such as Katrina and say it was resolved in one to two months, but that's not entirely true. Lots of families after the resolution of Katrina went without homes for years after the hurricane hit. To say that area returned to normal after such a short time is slightly ignorant. I personally live on the Jersey shore, and even after over a year of the hurricane that struck my shore, there are still those without homes.

                  You then bring up things like the dinosaurs and the mass extinction event that happened over millions of years ago. I fail to see any type of correlation here considering the fact that (a) it took millions of years for the earth to have a resurgence of a dominant species such as humans goes against your argument and (b) the human race is not extinct yet.

                  As others have said, Germany had help reconstructing as well from other countries after the war whereas a worldwide apocalypse means there is no chance of any foreign aid.

                  If we look at the recovery times of other pandemics across the world, such as the Black death faced by Europe in the 14th century, which is essentially the era that we're in after the zombie apocalypse - it took literally centuries for Europe to recover from the pandemic. Hundreds of millions of people died from the disease. If we consider the zombie apocalypse to be far more deadly than the black death and consider the fact that technology has been set back by more than 100 years, a recovery time of 3 to 10 years is a bit ludicrous.

                  If I had to make an educated guess on how long it would take for life to return to "normal," I would say anything less than 100 years could be considered a quick recovery. Even so, this recovery would only be in the sense of low-level technology; people certainly wouldn't have iPhones and iPads as luxury items.

                  • I think you are confusing "back to normal" with "what we have today". As I said, there would of course be a huge vacuum after all people who had died in a zombicalypse with probably entire countries empty of people. However, having enormous cities full of people is not what's required by a society: sure there were people in New Orleans who were homeless for quite some time, but the society as such didn't break down. Likewise with the bubonic plague: people died, but the institutions (governments, laws etc) soldiered on.

                    Another example: During the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century more than a quarter of the Swedish population moved from Sweden to the US, most to never come back. This was a major offset for Sweden - you don't loose 25% of the population without repercussions. But, despite this loss in people, the country was still there, with people staying behind and a government who took the necessary steps to slow the emmigration if not stop it.

                    So no. I would say that even during a total civilization breakdown, some semblance of society would survive.

                    • No I think you are the one confused, or you're not articulating yourself effectively. You bring up examples such as Germany, saying things such as "recovered in two years" and then say things such as "back to normal…" When referring to Katrina. So if you don't mean either of those things and "back to normal" doesn't mean "what we have today," then the zombie apocalypse by that definition is "normal." (?)

                      You have to remember this is a worldwide apocalypse, and as ironic as it sounds there are a lot of things you taking for granted in the comics, the TV show and the game. The way the world works right now is with the worldwide economy. If something happens the United States that crashes the stock market today, places like Australia would be affected.

                      If we were to extrapolate this line of thinking to the entire world, things that are being used in the franchise right now will cease to exist eventually. The reason I say this is ironic, is the fact that things are going to become far worse in the coming years way before they get better. Such is the fact that most of the guns used today require a precision-based manufacturing process on the bullets used in order to operate. Gasoline will be another affected resource, eventually becoming impossible to find.

                      Trying to guesstimate when these resources will become scarce would require knowing what the current population is for North America. It can be assumed that these resources will last for a while considering that the population has been dwindled down quite a bit, but I think any time frame longer than 10 years is probably unrealistic.

                      What is the point to all of this conjecture you may ask? Society is maintained not by the desire to live with one another, as you claim, but it is maintained by having bountiful resources. The minute resources start becoming scarce, wars will break out.

                      Let's take your current example and theory craft on it a bit: let's ask the question of what would happen if 25% of the Swedish population could not leave Sweden and pursue a better life elsewhere? What do you think what happened in that type of situation? All of your examples and presumptions reside on the fact that outside aid or restitution is available.

                      You are right though, some semblance of society would survive and has done inside the franchise. Just because we haven't seen it in the game yet does not mean they are not there.

                      • I am perhaps not describing what I mean clearly, and sorry for that - "back to normal" should have been "still working".

                        I can actually answer what would have happen in the case with the Swedes that couldn't emmigrate to the US: they would have emmigrated elsewhere or in worst case scenario stayed put. The harvest (ie, the resources) were scarce in Sweden during this time, but it wasn't so much starvation that drove them overseas, but the pursuit of getting it better. If all I can eat here is pizza and there's a four star restaurant on the other side of town I might as well go there, but if I stay here for whatever reason, I can at least have pizza. In other words, exactly what I said earlier regarding humanity's everlasting search for something better.

            • Considering how humans have managed overcome everything thrown at us over time

              Homo sapiens have formed civilizations for only a few thousand years out of a couple hundred thousand years of its existence. We have only recently become top of the food chain. That's not even getting into the other species of human that have become extinct. Fun fact: our species almost died out at least once before: http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2012/10/22/163397584/how-human-beings-almost-vanished-from-earth-in-70-000-b-c We got lucky. The Earth doesn't need us like we need it. It could exist fine without us, if not better.

              You reason like this: we haven't seen any aliens from outer space, so there aren't any; this when I rely on empirical evidence on how humans have survived everything else the world has thrown at us, and for the most part kept society together.

              I have no idea what this is or what you're trying to say. Anyway, every single living organism you see today has survived everything thrown at it. We have no special right to exist in the grand scheme of things.

              And this is exactly the reason for why I get pissed off regarding how different creators including Kirkman see humans: like stupid-as-shit loosers just two meals from barbary. We aren't.

              Well, sorry. That's kind of the premise, not a flaw. It's like me reading Robert E. Howard and griping about Conan's pessimism towards civilization and his belief in the inevitability of barbarism. It's art, not science. Things get exaggerated to make a point or explore a certain part of our nature. Yeah, it can get gray or depressing if you consume nothing but this stuff, but that's why you should have a variety of fiction you enjoy. And if you need nauseatingly life-affirming and "up with humanity" works, there's always the Oprah channel, or religion.

              • Yes, I know about the near extinction - and yet here we are. Funny, innit? So what say we wouldn't be around even after a zombicalypse? Thanks for proving my point by the way.

                Regarding this 'art', well, I appreciate it as much as anyone else. But I do have a limited suspension of disbelief, which means that even in the artistic forms like comics or games for that matter, I want something that actually adheres to the real world. And in the real world, people are not two meals from barbary; in the real world people react and act as people, meaning they will organize. They will take counter-measures against any dangers (which, to put this in gaming terms again, is exactly what Carlos did, and the entire group both there and in Crawford, albeit with different methods). I am actually not that big of a fan of humanity, but right should be right - humanity has a tendency to survive.

                Funny thing here is, I do think humanity is doomed, but not by zombiefication or disease or such crap, but from destruction of the environment. Not as fun as a zombiecalypse admittedly, but so very real.

                (Oh, and even in that case humans will survive, probably until the sun explodes).

                • Yes, I know about the near extinction - and yet here we are. Funny, innit? So what say we wouldn't be around even after a zombicalypse? Thanks for proving my point by the way.

                  I did not prove your point in any way. If we had become extinct, we wouldn't be here to talk about it--no shit. Our species barely making it but for the luck of the draw does undermine your assertion that humanity is immune from the fate of any other animal, however.

                  And in the real world, people are not two meals from barbary; in the real world people react and act as people, meaning they will organize. They will take counter-measures against any dangers (which, to put this in gaming terms again, is exactly what Carlos did, and the entire group both there and in Crawford, albeit with different methods).

                  You just contradicted yourself. You're complaining that you're not finding organization in the story and then just cited an example of organization in the story.

                  (Oh, and even in that case humans will survive, probably until the sun explodes).

                  That's no more realistic or "better" than an exaggeratedly pessimistic opinion of humanity. Also, our sun doesn't have enough mass to explode, it's destined to bloat up into a red giant and then cool down into a white dwarf. And whatever becomes of our direct genetic lineage billions of years from now, if not wiped out, will most likely not be "human." And you contradict yourself again... "humanity is doomed" but we "will survive."

                  Look, the general premise of the work is that civilization is merely a veneer. Take that away, and we're just very smart apes. There is just as much real life evidence to support this as there is to counter it. Humans have compassion and seek non-violent mutual cooperation. Humans are also capable of great hate, violence and oppression, often over completely petty things, and just as many times because it's the rational course of action. Humans obey laws. Humans break laws. We are social. We are selfish individualists. We are intelligent and seek to understand and create. We are short-sighted and superstitious, and consume everything in our path.

                  The above is the breadth of the human experience and I think works like TWD (particularly the comics and the TT game) actually cover all these bases, even if sometimes it chooses to focus on one specific aspect at the expense of another for the sake of drama or narrative clarity. The point of TWD is that it cuts out all the extraneous social and technological "bullshit" to get to the heart of human nature and explores how people get along and don't get along when their lives are in the balance, while still keeping it entertaining to a mainstream audience. It sands humanity down to a sensitive nub, processes it through popular action/adventure sensibilities, and goes from there.

                  I like it just as much as I like all the corny "humans are speshul" tropes in pop science fiction, which might be more your bag. None of these things should be taken as anthropological dissertations. But that doesn't mean there isn't a lot of truth in them.

                  Otherwise, I see no point in you getting upset that this genre (post-apocalyptic adventure/drama) is being consistent with itself. It's like complaining that the princess lives happily ever after in a Disney fairy tale.

    • Have you watched the tv show or read the comics? The video game is now at roughly the same timeline as the tv show, give or take, and we've already seen one town that has walls. The comics have four towns with walls that we've seen so far, not including the prison. It's perfectly possible that we will see a town with walls in this season of the game. So far, we've literally seen ONE episode taking place two years later. Give it a second.

      Also, Germany was rebuilt with foreign aid during peace time. There's no foreign aid and no peace time here.

    • you have to realize just how much society has fallen down in the world of the Walking Dead. Most able protectors died within the first weeks and anyone inside a city was basically toast.

      The truth is it takes ALOT of manpower to maintain our infrastructure and security

      Germany was rebuilt so quickly due to 3 things

      1.) though devestated by war the nation was fairly intact and rule of law still existed. though an occupiers law

      2.) The world had a vested interest in seeing Germany rebuilt

      3.) NATO needed a stable and rebuilt Germany for the cold war/potential wars

    • Germany recovered in just two years AFTER the war was over, the zombie apocalypse isn´t over though. In the comics you can see communities of people pretty well organized, with walls, good defenses and such. Also Kirkman has stated that there are zones where people are even better organized, with the military involved and such. The world is a huge place and we are only seeing a tiny portion of it.

  • @Olaus: I'm talking about the fact that the franchise is going in pretty much one direction in time and space, and that is just forward in Georgia/US, this whilst a lot could happen at the same time elsewhere: what did the survivors in Copenhagen experience? The survivors in Nairobi? Paris? Seattle? New York? Springfield, London, Lyon, Moscowhongkongtokyosverdlovsk? Georgia USA is not the center of the world. Shocking, I know.

    As I said, I have difficulties with a disaster having a timeframe that goes on for too long - the Chernobyl nuclear reactor meltdown? Was resolved in about 6 months; the Fukushima nuclear reactor breakdown? Fixed in less than one month; the repairs after Katrina? 1-2 months?

    • Most of the Walking Dead franchise happens around Georgia, so it wouldn't feel as much as part of the same series if it did happen somewhere else. And it's a matter of personal preference, if you think that the comic book (and TV) -series have grown stale and unrealistic. Personally I have enjoyed the turns the story has taken in more recent issues of the comic book -series.

    • But what you're asking for is that the zombie apocalypse not be a proper apocalypse at all so much as a zombie crisis followed by a return to normality. The premise lacks the appropriate drama unless it entails a nearly complete dieback of the human race, followed by the survivors attempting to make their way through whatever is left. Which means, no, the human race isn't coming back anytime soon.

      Basically, its a premise you either have to accept, find some way to find acceptable (as I did above), or just swallow with the same willing suspension of disbelief you'd grant to...say, the 'science' in a movie like Star Wars.

      • Yes you are right - I do look for a set timeline here - when that meteorite hit earth and killed off the dinosaurs, there were already mammals around - the hit was a MAJOR disaster for earth, probably the biggest yet, and still some critters managed to survive up to today even (crocodiles are basically dinosaurs).

        What I mean is that as much as I like the entire premise of a zombie apocalypse, I think even that needs to have a best-before date: let it start, go on and then end. I have mentioned MASH as a horrible example of something that went on too long, and I think that having TWD go on for too long would also diminish the entire idea. Let TWD be born, live and die peacefully and then let us go and check out something else to be entertained from.

        • when that meteorite hit earth and killed off the dinosaurs, there were already mammals around

          Dude, in this scenario, WE are the dinosaurs. In the history of the Earth, billions of species have gone extinct. Humans are not speshul.

          And in case you haven't noticed, the walkers are nothing compared to the humans. Even if all of the walkers suddenly disappeared one day, humanity would not instantly join hands, sing Kumbaya, and get right back to the status quo.

          • You are aware that crocodiles essentially are dinosaurs? And that they have survived to this day? Great. Because humans are or could be those crocs.

            You are right however that society wouldn't be the same if the zombies just disappeared. Of course not - there would be a huge vacuum where a lot of work would need to be done to return to a hospitable society. But it would be done in time for a few very human reasons: we are social creatures, we instinctively try to live with each other (and therefore make rules of conduct for that) and we are relentless in our pursuit of a better and more comfortable life - which is why we have stuff like aspirin, internet and cars today.

    • you are looking to deep into things for a fictional comic book based game. come on man.

    • Actually, this season of the game is taking place (so far) in North Carolina. And they left Georgia years and years ago in the comics.

      • True, but the stories still take place in the same region as Georgia. They haven't moved north of D.C., so the stories still take place in Southern US. Current comic book issues happen in Virginia and there's only one state between it and Georgia.

  • Given what is stated in-game about her age, I suppose Clementine is either 10 (possibly a few weeks away from 11), or she's 11 already and they just couldn't keep track of the date anymore after a certain point.

    Also, as far as the state of the apocalypse, it's a lot harder to rebuild in a world where the infrastructure has been ruined, no amount of safety against the undead stops new ones from being generated from natural deaths, and people keep stabbing each other in the backs all the time.

    • She had just turned 9 at the end of last season. Since then, more than 16 months have passed. She has to be at least 11.

      But the game has always been a bit confused about how old Clem is. She was supposed to be a first-grader last season, but first graders are 6-7, not 8 or 9.

  • She's definitely going through puberty. She even started saying God. One of these days, she's gonna start swearing like Lee.

  • im gonna say 11 or 12

  • What makes you say the world will ever recover. Katjaa's words were before we learn that everyone's infected.

    How do you plan on rebuilding the world if even the youngest person on the planet is fated to turn into a walker when he dies ? Besides we don't even know if the "virus" is transmitted to the babies, it could be after all.

    Nothing tells us TWD is gonna end good. If Telltale makes a 3rd or 4th season, nothing prevents them from restarting Day 1 through the perspective of another character. I don't really see the problem here.

This discussion has been closed.