Telltale Autumn Sale

It's a harsh and dangerous world, I got the message.

edited December 2013 in The Walking Dead

I'm probably gonna earn a lot of dislikes for this post, but I've just finished my 3. playthrough of 'All That Remains' and I'm not that satisfied with what the game has become.

Why is Clementine such an incredible hand-to-hand fighter? She basically grabs for anything that's lying around and turns it into a deadly weapon. She fights off an adult male twice her size and almost bites off his thumb. I think her gameplay is way too offensive and aggressive and I think she's quite too strong for an eleven-year-old. She can kill walkers almost as easy as Lee, so they are no big threat. I think there is more gameplay potential when playing as a little girl than simply offering her weapons at every turn and letting her use sheer force to deal with dangerous situations. On top of that she even stitches up a big and nasty wound on her arm like Rambo. That's exaggerative.

And why is she so sassy and deceitful now? Her character is rather dark, she exploits her cuteness and can pretend to cry to manipulate people and even blackmail and threaten them into doing something for her. I don't even know this girl. This is not how my Lee raised her for sure. I taught her what's dangerous and how to protect herself, but not how to become a baddie. Where's the moral influence from my choices in Season 1? Keeping your humanity is an important theme in this genre, despite the fact that some of the so called "fans" want it to be as cruel and brutal as possible.

I guess you want to "shock" the player in the style of Kirkman by showing that the world of TWD is a harsh and dangerous place that might change the personality of its survivors up to a point where you won't recognize them anymore. But I think you are overdoing it. It's still an eleven-year-old girl in the end. No one goes from being the most loveable moral compass on the planet to being an unscrupulous and brutal hardcore survivor in only 16 months. Not even in that kind of environment. I'm not buying it.

Why do you want to make her such a "badass" now anyway? That's ridiculous. She's supposed to be an ordinary child, not some action hero.

The rest of the story seems to be rather weak so far. There is no proper direction yet. In Season 1 you gave the player an important task right from the beginning: To take care of that little girl and try to find her parents. That's what kept me going. But now there's not much to do besides to try to get along with these new people, because you simply can't survive there on your own. The only task is to try to survive only to be alive... And while that seems to be somewhat realistic, it's simply not enough for a proper game plot.

Now there is the little cliffhanger at the end ("I thought you were dead") and some other open questions (what happened to Christa and her baby and what's wrong with Sarah?). And you can already tell that there will be trouble with Carver and that the game will take you to Wellington eventually. But I don't feel like I'm having any main goal so far.

This also leads me right to my next point of criticism: The characters. Most of them simply suck. 'All That Remains' is exactly like '400 Days': There are a lot of new faces, but not enough background information. And most of them have this unlikeable aura around them, even those that are supposed to be "good guys", like Alvin. I can't really tell what it is, but I don't like these people and I couldn't care less about them.

On top of that you can't even actively talk to anyone anymore. Every conversation is initialized automatically and the dialogue options are even more non-altering than in Season 1. Sometimes each of the 3 available dialogue options even leads to Clementine saying the exact same thing.

Why don't you give the players some room for exploration and a chance to get to know these characters a little bit better, instead of just pushing them from scene to scene so fast? Season 2 is way too hectic and action-driven. Season 1 was about characterization, relationships, moral, hope and survival. But now it's ONLY about survival at an uncomfortable speed. You basically removed most of the stuff from the game that made it so outstanding in exchange for action and some more violence... Why would you do that? Capcom have made a similar mistake with their Resident Evil series as they traded off great survival horror against pure action and now they are loosing both, the good ratings and a big chunk of their fan base. A lot of gamers are starving for good stories and great characters, not for more action and gore.

The game is also still far too linear and the player still doesn't have enough influence. I'd say you have even less influence than in Season 1, which is really disappointing.

And last but not least, with a play time of approximately 90 minutes this episode is way too short. If every episode will be that short, the whole game will end up having a total play time of ~7.5 hours. That's not enough.

I AM aware that this is only the first episode of the game and that 4 more will follow, but I'm really afraid that it might go on like this.

The GameSpot rating of 6/10 might be a little harsh, but I wouldn't rate this any higher than 7/10 to be honest.

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Comments

  • I agree; Telltale overdid it in this episode. Let's hope they lighten things up a little in the next chapter before going dark again. It's the kind of structure that helped to make the tragic events in season 1 more bearable, and the player more willing to see the rest of the story, even if it took them to a terrible place.

  • She's not... It takes her twice as long to kill a walker than lee and it's also because WE are controlling her. They did a time jump for a reason, she's hardened and lost most of her innocence.

  • You know the person who rated 60/100 gave Gone Home (aka shitty game) 95/100. I would rate this episode 85/100

  • "On top of that you can't even actively talk to anyone anymore. Every conversation is initialized automatically and the dialogue options are even more non-altering than in Season 1. Sometimes each of the 3 available dialogue options even leads to Clementine saying the exact same thing."

    That bothered me too.

  • She has become naturally good at surviving and killing wallkers and she'll keep getting better as she grows up. Ever heard of young kids becoming exceptionally good at things they start at an early age?(musical instruments, sports, etc.) Same thing applies to her.

  • You can make her "badass" and sassy, but you also don't have, theres just an option to do it. Also, it's been like almost 2 years since the zombie apocalypse, and Clementine has been exposed to a lot of danger, i would assume more than most people, like the current group she's with. Shes going to be able to fight after 2 years/

  • I agree with some of it though. I hope a telltale staff reads this.

  • When I was 12 I knew how to chop down tree's, start fire, build shelter, tie knots and shoot a bow.
    (Not bragging I promise)
    Clementine can kill some walkers but I don't think she's fully changed. Point is that at 12 I could do things that clementine could do so and kids can be naturally good at this kind of thing.

    Antero posted: »

    She has become naturally good at surviving and killing wallkers and she'll keep getting better as she grows up. Ever heard of young

  • Agree 100% i gave it a 7 on my youtube channels reveiw of it. il post it when its out

  • You summed up nearly everything I thought of this episode. Ever since episode five ended, I thought that my number one concern for S2 would be making Clem the PC. When it was revealed that indeed she was the PC, I gave TT the benefit of the doubt and agreed to see how the first episode would go. It was just like I suspected. Through various dialogue choices, anyone can make Clem OOC than she was in S1. I know, it's been 16 months. But to me, it seemed like it was just a plot point for Clem to seem "hardened" and apparently "lose her innocence". I'll be pissed if Clem turns into comic Carl without my choices. I admit, I play Clem as how she would be perceived in S1, but it concurrently makes me shift away from the character I loved in S1.

    Yeah, I do agree with you on the bleakness of things. And I do agree that Telltale has to advocate that this is a screwed-up I.P. they have a hold of. However, one depressing event after another and another makes it seem that this is forced and bad pacing. You can only lead the narrative into dismal events for so long before it seems bland.

    On the characters front, I'm not that concerned. We'll have plenty more chances to love/hate them throughout the course of the season. However, I do feel like S1 introduced us to characters better by giving more backstory. This wasn't a big concern. The overall narrative though, I'm worried about. I don't have any idea where the story is going, unlike S1.

    Overall, I gave this episode a 7.5/10. I'm really not particularly 'hyped' for the next episodes. I'll see how the next episode goes should I decide to continue or leave playing the season.

  • The time jump was something I didn't like. With season 1, you accompany characters from the very beginning of the zombie apocalypse onwards, which makes it easier for the player to identify with them. By leaping ahead in Clem's story, not only are we missing vital information about Clementine's progression from naive child to Carl-wannabe, but the tone becomes more reminiscent of THE LAST OF US, another horror/survival game I felt was too nasty for its own good.

    Carley123 posted: »

    She's not... It takes her twice as long to kill a walker than lee and it's also because WE are controlling her. They did a time jump for a reason, she's hardened and lost most of her innocence.

  • Why is Clementine such an incredible hand-to-hand fighter? She basically grabs for anything that's lying around and turns it into a deadly weapon. She fights off an adult male twice her size and almost bites off his thumb. I think her gameplay is way too offensive and aggressive and I think she's quite too strong for an eleven-year-old. She can kill walkers almost as easy as Lee, so they are no big threat. I think there is more gameplay potential when playing as a little girl than simply offering her weapons at every turn and letting her use sheer force to deal with dangerous situations. On top of that she even stitches up a big and nasty wound on her arm like Rambo. That's exaggerative.

    The logic in this is simple. Clementine is a smart girl for her age and a quick learner. She's not an incredible hand-to-hand fighter at all, this girl was just simply running for her life from a group of thugs. It's all about instincts. Clementine learned most of the survival tactics from Lee, Omid, and Christa long enough to adapt to it. I think you're over exaggerating on the first paragraph there, buddy. From what I remember, all she did was merely use her quick wits to find a stick and stab through Winston's shoulder, then when he caught her by the leg, she kicked him repeatedly to be free. Next, when Winston captured her from behind, once again, she used her quick wits and bit his thumb. I mean, if you were in her situation, what the heck would you do? I honestly think you'd die in that scenario.

    And why is she so sassy and deceitful now? Her character is rather dark, she exploits her cuteness and can pretend to cry to manipulate people and even blackmail and threaten them into doing something for her. I don't even know this girl. This is not how my Lee raised her for sure. I taught her what's dangerous and how to protect herself, but not how to become a baddie. Where's the moral influence from my choices in Season 1? Keeping your humanity is an important theme in this genre, despite the fact that some of the so called "fans" want it to be as cruel and brutal as possible.

    Well, it's called surviving. Besides, most of the new people were being assholes to her anyways. Clementine is growing up, you have to face the facts. Any normal 8 yr old kid who had to watch people die, their parents die, their best friends die, the person they really love who helped them survive for a year would normally be scarred and messed their mind up a bit. Clem is strong, thanks to Lee and the others. She can now learned not to be afraid & try to survive the best way that you can while being sane.

    The rest of the story seems to be rather weak so far. There is no proper direction yet. In Season 1 you gave the player an important task right from the beginning: To take care of that little girl and try to find her parents. That's what kept me going. But now there's not much to do besides to try to get along with these new people, because you simply can't survive there on your own. The only task is to try to survive only to be alive... And while that seems to be somewhat realistic, it's simply not enough for a proper game plot.

    The main goal is obviously keeping this little girl everyone loves alive. This is what everyone wanted. The people want to know how Clementine is doing after her guardian angel died. (R.I.P Lee) I don't need to explain any further cause this is already simple enough.

    As for your criticism about the group, give the next episode a chance. This is just the first one. Although, I do entirely agree that the first episode is short. It feels like as if I only played it for half an hour when it's like 90 minutes.

  • edited December 2013

    I've just finished my 3. playthrough of 'All That Remains' and I'm not that satisfied with what the game has become.
    I AM aware that this is only the first episode of the game and that 4 more will follow, but I'm really afraid that it might go on like this.

    CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP

    You said it. I like to be more direct and just straight out say that the series has been sent straight down the shitter. Yes, I am angry that the sequel to one of the best games ever made is absolutely terrible.

  • edited December 2013

    The only thing that makes me sad is that, like you said, there's no time to chat freely with the members of that group. But actually there were no any situations to place that kind of part, except I would have liked it to occur before going to fish with Nick and Pete. Before that it would have been a really good moment to let the player chat with people. And because it didn't happen, some characters stayed quite shallow, it was merely an introduction. Well, in the next episode...

    I also disliked the fact how short this episode was. It was so packed with action that it felt really much shorter than the Season 1's first episode. But this wasn't a bad start at all, I just hope that E2 will contain some peaceful time to get to know everyone.

  • You've been posting the same kind of comments for the past 5 hours. Do you get paid enough?

    dlux_ posted: »

    I've just finished my 3. playthrough of 'All That Remains' and I'm not that satisfied with what the game has become. I AM aware t

  • Hey dlux if you dont like the game then why are you on here?

    Antero posted: »

    You've been posting the same kind of comments for the past 5 hours. Do you get paid enough?

  • I share some of the same concerns, sure. However, I will disagree with your comment on Clementine's character. She's 11, ok, but she is a survivor. We saw what Sarah, mental illness or not, at 15 and I can say 8 year old Clem had more chances of surviving than her after those three months with the group. You are forced to adapt in those kind of situations, you either adapt or you die, and Clementine has been adapting for two years. Combat against ONE walker consisted in using the environment and finishing him off when he was immobilized. I think killing one walker in combat doesn't make her a stereotypical "badass", in fact, I wish people would stop calling her that.

    The story's goal is, right now, survive. Not as strong as the one presented to us in last season's premiere, I agree. We got to meet a character we cared about and although the storyline in S1Ep1 did not have a direction in mind, we had Clementine to care for. Survival, on the other hand, is not such a big concern for us. It is a dangerous world, but we as players have the knowledge that our protagonist can't die on us this quickly and so we search for other aspects of the story to care about; a character, a more definitive goal, a sense of direction. We got a cliffhanger and a vague introduction to what can be the potential storyline, but without knowing more, we feel that conclusion was lacking.

    The characters. We know shit about them and their motivations, which at first makes sense considering Clem was bitten, they were worried, blah, blah. I don't justify their actions, but I can understand them. The real mistake with the characters this episode was, in my opinion, not allowing us some down time to interact with them. Even if they all turned out to be Larrys, we would have a clearer picture of who we are dealing with, and they would be extending the episode's duration.

  • BenPauIBenPauI Banned
    edited December 2013

    I dont get why people are hating on Season 2... I think its really good

  • She wasn't being a Carl wannabe she was trying to survive. She never went around killing zombies for the fun of it because she's a "badass" she alone, and afraid and trying to stay strong. The only reason she doesn't act like a little girl is because she's trying to stay strong for lee. She's trying not to break down and give up. We see the old her after when she's alone and crying and beings to go to sleep. She's just trying to act like an survivor maybe Christa taught her differently.

    The time jump was something I didn't like. With season 1, you accompany characters from the very beginning of the zombie apocalypse

  • I found the group way more interesting than the season 1 group. They were all hiding secrets it felt like.

    TWDIsLife posted: »

    Why is Clementine such an incredible hand-to-hand fighter? She basically grabs for anything that's lying around and turns it into a

  • That's how I feel. I honestly like season 1's group more, but the season 2 isn't that bad at all from the negative reviews these people gave. The secrets from them made me want to play more of the episodes

    Carley123 posted: »

    I found the group way more interesting than the season 1 group. They were all hiding secrets it felt like.

  • Me too I honestly loved how different it felt I gave it 9.1/10 on my review. I gave episode 5 8.3/10
    I liked this one more...

    BenPauI posted: »

    I dont get why people are hating on Season 2... I think its really good

  • She wasn't being a Carl wannabe she was trying to survive.

    Have you even seen some of Clem's dialogue options? They practically scream "Carl".

    Carley123 posted: »

    She wasn't being a Carl wannabe she was trying to survive. She never went around killing zombies for the fun of it because she's a "

  • I hope someone from Telltale reading this . They could take into account when making ep.2

  • [removed]

    vivec posted: »

    I hope someone from Telltale reading this . They could take into account when making ep.2

  • It's the short period of time that bothers me. When you first met her as Lee she could barely hand him over that hammer while shaking like crazy. In Season 1 she was pretty much the most kind and innocent thing that you can imagine. She couldn't even handle Lee swearing.

    And she still seems to be like that in the intro of S2E1. She still can't swear (she says "shoot" instead of "shit") and as soon as the door of the ladies' room opens, she becomes scared and tries to hide instead of grabbing her gun.

    But then - only 16 months later - she suddenly wins hand-to-fand fights against adult males, stitches up enormous wounds on her arm and blackmails other survivors... Sorry, but that's B movie niveau.

    Antero posted: »

    She has become naturally good at surviving and killing wallkers and she'll keep getting better as she grows up. Ever heard of young

  • Do you work for Telltale Games?

  • I never really thought she sounded like Carl maybe not in my play through but If she does turn into a Carl I'm going to lose some respect for this kid and Telltale for turning her into a monster like Carl.

    She wasn't being a Carl wannabe she was trying to survive. Have you even seen some of Clem's dialogue options? They practically scream "Carl".

  • Gone Home is a great game.

    vivec posted: »

    You know the person who rated 60/100 gave Gone Home (aka shitty game) 95/100. I would rate this episode 85/100

  • That's the most frustrating thing imho.

    vivec posted: »

    "On top of that you can't even actively talk to anyone anymore. Every conversation is initialized automatically and the dialogue opt

  • edited December 2013

    Out of curiosity, did you play S1 as it was coming out every couple of months? Or once all 5 episodes were finished.

    dlux_ posted: »

    I do like the game, it's one of the best ever made. Only the second season is shit.

  • The 2nd Season is better than the 1st

    dlux_ posted: »

    I do like the game, it's one of the best ever made. Only the second season is shit.

  • I do like the game, it's one of the best ever made. Only the second season is shit.

    BenPauI posted: »

    Hey dlux if you dont like the game then why are you on here?

  • Pointing out what we don't like about the game in a respectful way, hoping for the developers to take notice and maybe improve the experience is not pointless in my eyes. Some of the heaviest criticism can come from the #1 fan that feels some things can be improved.

  • edited December 2013

    this thread is stupid the 2nd Season is awesome

  • edited December 2013

    Let's not judge Season 2 by the first Episode. You can't take the first 20% of something and make a definitive judgment of it, that's pretty dumb. We don't know what's going to happen later on. While I agree that the Episode could have been better, I still liked it more than Season 1's first episode. The only thing I was REALLY disappointed about was the lack of interaction with the new characters, which leaves most of them fairly 2D and uninteresting at this point.

    dlux_ posted: »

    I do like the game, it's one of the best ever made. Only the second season is shit.

  • edited December 2013

    Theres nothing wrong with the 2nd Season

  • If you genuinely feel that way, and are not mentally deluding yourself out of disappointment, I wish I could be you. No sarcasm in that statement, I swear.

    santa cIaus posted: »

    Theres nothing wrong with the 2nd Season

  • yeah right

    Gone Home is a great game.

  • I think it's how you related to the first season that predicts how you'll relate to this one. If for you S1 was all about saving an adorable little girl, then yeah, in S2 she's clearly not a little girl anymore (IMHO she's still pretty darn cute). Since she's older and tougher now, and needs less saving, that's going to be a bummer if you wanted the same kind of story.

    For me it's all about the tension between the little girl that was, and what her life would have been like (seriously--birthday parties, ballet lessons, all the kind of stuff that was in store for her) and what she actually is like when that whole future has vanished: definitely tough, but thanks to Lee and the other S1 characters, she learned how to stay alive without being a jerk.

    Best of all, for me anyway, she's quick-thinking and smart. Grabbing a nearby branch and stabbing a guy with it doesn't make her a violence-prone badass, it makes her a little kid who wants to GET AWAY and live. Remember, she was already kidnapped once by the head-in-a-bag psycho--I would imagine that's not the top fun thing on her list of things to do again.

    The OP says S1 was all about "characterization, relationships, morals, hope and survival." I see all of that here, too--although if I have one criticism it's that we didn't get to know enough about the new people yet. All post-apocalyptic stories involve "morals" to one degree or another. Often, characters throw it all away to live a better life after whatever disaster happens, but I see Clem hanging on to some of her ideals. She isn't going to do the right thing every time; she probably never was going to be a perfect angel, zombies or no zombies.

    I really liked this episode, and I can't wait to see what's coming next.

This discussion has been closed.