• Long. But the point of Lee was that he was redeeming himself with this little girl. What a waste. She just turns into a strong-arming, emotionless piece of crap.

    • Well, she doesn't necessarily turn emotionless. She still clearly cares about things, she just becomes tough. If you want to see emotionless....I saw a conversation about Carl in the comics being pretty emotionless.

      • Fine, there are about two times when she sounds like she gives a fuck after Omid's death.

        • I find the manipulative and mean choices hilarious, and if you agree to be Sarah's friend it doesn't seem to have much if any emotion in it. But she smiles for a bit after being given food by her new group, she seems sad when she kills the dog(not sure what happens if you leave the dog, I assume something similar), she seems to care about Christa enough to try to save her, you can bring up how you miss Omid, Lee, or Kenny, or something along those lines, to Christa.

          I think Clementine is fine, not emotionless. I guess that's just my opinion though. Either way, I'm happy with her character. :D

          • She still doesn't sound like she gives a fuck in the manipulative choices. Also, the dog is one of the three times she shows emotion. And yeah, leaving the dog is the most horrible thing I've seen in a while, but she almost looks like she doesn't care... Saving Christa is the other one. She shows some sort of something in the stitching scene, but it was more pain than emotion.

            • I suppose it all depends on how you play her, as a hardass or more classic Clem. Either way, I wouldn't say Lee's time with her was wasted, but that's just my opinion.

              • We can only hope, I suppose. I just really hope that Clemmy is better in episode 2.

                • I hope she will be, but it's hard to survive the apocalypse as a sweet innocent little girl. As for her stealing supplies, the group didn't give her much choice. They wouldn't let her go and they wouldn't give her immediate medical attention which she needed. So that's one bad thing she did that she needed to do.

                  • I don't even care if she's not as innocent. I just want her voice to be more lively.

                    • Yeah, her voice does sound monotone at times :/

                        • She is supposed to sound nearly emotionless, emotions cloud judgement, and good judgement is the only thing that keeps you alive. The only thing she would be feeling at this moment would be guilt and sadness, both of which she shows well.

                          • Then don't make me play as her. I'd rather hear a voice like Mark's than Clem's boring monotone.

                            • Well, there are plenty of other games in the world.

                              • But this one is... Or was better than the rest, and considering how early it is, I want it to change. I haven't liked a game this much in a while, and I want the sequel to be as good.

                                • You really enjoyed the first one that much? If you truely thought it was the best, then have faith in the people creating it. The emotions will come, they will make you cry, and weep, and tear out your hair. But, you need to let the people tell the story first.

                                  • But they don't have a lot of time to tell this story. 5 episodes for the lot of it. Clem spending a fifth of it moping and sounding bored and shit doesn't get a point across, and it doesn't help much. In the end, if she does brighten up, even as a completely different person, we'll remember the beginning of season 2 as kinda crappy, and considering my opinion of their past projects... I hope Clem's depressed-ness or whatever goes away quick.

                                    • They have plenty of time. 5 episodes, 4 left, a hell of a lot can happen in 8 hours of gameplay. "Clem spending a fifth of it moping and sounding bored and shit doesn't get a point across," well it did, you just didn't like the point they were making, and frankly it wasn't your call. Her "depressed-ness", usually refered to as depression, won't go away, she is in the ZA. Things will happen, we will cry, we will enjoy the game, and it will end.

                                      • Depression! That's the word I was looking for. Fuck, I hate that feeling... You know, when you can't find a word? Anyways, to respond to the content of that post...

                                        That's true, about the time, but with only 10 hours, every second counts. Lee could've been mopey the whole first episode, due to losing his wife and killing somebody, which would've made a shit ton of sense. Instead, they made Lee show a rainbow of emotion in just the first episode. What point did it get across? Tell me. Rick is in the zombie apocalypse, and so far, he's seen far more death than Clem has, yet he doesn't care. You could pin that on him being a grown fucking man, so Carl, then. He's seen a shit ton of death, too. Saw his mother and sister die in one fell swoop. So far, the only difference with Carl from the beginning of the comic and where I am is that he can shoot a gun.

                                        • I don't talk about the comics, I haven't read them and due to their excessive and credulous use of violence I doubt I ever will. It's just to dark for my taste. So I won't be responding to anything about the comics for that reasoning :P
                                          Every second does count, which is why they had to start off as bleak and hopeless as possible. They made Lee, for the most part, extremely confused. They did the exact same thing there, only with different intentions and therefore different emotions and actions.

                            • The first episode was seemingly supposed to underline in every way how shitty it is to live in that world as a child on your own. I'm sure she'll brighten up later once there is something to smile about in her life.

                  • "I hope she will be, but it's hard to survive the apocalypse as a sweet innocent little girl. As for her stealing supplies, the group didn't give her much choice. They wouldn't let her go and they wouldn't give her immediate medical attention which she needed. So that's one bad thing she did that she needed to do."

                    I don't know. Sophia has seen far worst than Clem and she hasn't lost her child hood or her humanity. She still plays like a normal child would in her time at the hilltop settlement. Nearly 2 years in the ZA she is still as sweet as she was when it all started. Although she hasn't had to kill she has seen her adopted father's head smashed into a pulp by a barbwired covered baseball bat and many other atrocities before that.

        • I miss omid. (Deter.) I miss lee (deter.). The Kenny drawing and the photo of lee. And the whole conversation with Luke.

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      CathalOHara Moderator

      Pretty ironic that you're saying this when you're controlling Clementine in Season Two, it was YOU who made her emotionless. You can clearly see she still has emotions. You would have to be blind to say otherwise.

      • Sometimes she has emotions. Like before the intro's ending, she's alright. Also, I've done two playthroughs, and seen a couple others on youtube. In most options she's emotionless or ruthless, and a few when she's happy. Not many though. Granted, I fucked up a couple of choices in my first one, naively thinking that she'd be less harsh about it, but my point stands.

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          CathalOHara Moderator

          I've played it quite an awful lot, as you can see. About seven-eight times I think? And no, she most certainly has emotions. When you're stuck in the zombie apocalypse for over two years of course you're going to be emotionally hardened. Clementine can't stay all sweet and innocent forever. That's just a matter of life and death. If she stayed like that things wouldn't go all too good for her. She had to depart her innocent side to survive. And she couldn't just cry on someone's lap if she was getting upset (which she never done).
          Clementine has always been a girl of mystery, she's always been the shy type and didn't open up too often to others. Heck Katjaa always considered her a mystery. But to call her emotionless? She's lost her innocence, she's growing up in a world where dead people walk free, of course she's going to be like this.
          Alt text

          • Don't you people get it? I don't give a shit if she's sweet and innocent. I just want her to emote. It's nothing with her lines, how she acts, Melissa Hutchison sounded kind of monotone in this. It threw me off to see the Clem I loved so much for her efficient ability to relay how she feels without overdoing it to the point of being irritating talking like someone who's never experienced any emotion whatsoever, or like a bitch, in the blackmail and douchebag route. Though those can be forgiven. They certainly make more sense. Both from a player's perspective and Clementine's. From the player's perspective, though, it doesn't make sense to have Clementine be the player. If she weren't, I wouldn't care. Instead, I'd love her all the more for it, but it bugs me that we can't show any emotion that Clementine feels no matter our choices. There's one instance where we control her thoughts of someone. Once. Unlike with Lee, where he could give people benefit of the doubt or hate them (like Larry). With Clem, the only choosing we got to do of what we thought of others was accepting Nick's apology or not (which... Everything involving Nick and Pete was really well done, tip of the hat to that), or, "She's mean, I don't like her," "She doesn't scare me," or, "What's her problem?" Give us some choice here, huh? Maybe let me give her the benefit of the doubt? She might not be all bad, eh?

            • Aha now I understand what you mean. Yeah, the dialogue was pretty linear, but I think I would wait for the upcoming episodes before casting judgement.

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              CathalOHara Moderator

              So... you're basically saying that you just didn't like your choice limitations? While I do agree with some especially the one with Pete (they all basically say the same thing) I still think Clementine was done greatly in this episode. Especially with how Melissa made Clementine sound much more darker in speech, It's a way I wasn't used to hearing her act or talk, and it most certainly felt like she was becoming her own person. And like I said before, it perfectly suits someone who grew up in the apocalypse and lost everyone close to them. They close themselves off and become emotionless. My favourite example being when she talks to Luke about her journey up to where she in when she's eating. Or when you say; "What do you think?" to Pete when he's asking you if you're telling the truth about your bite.

              I see your criticism however but I don't see it as a deal-breaker one, and to be honest I don't think Telltale will change it, they've got a good idea on how they want Clementine portrayed this time around. Perhaps yes, they should give you more variety on your choices for dialogue. But who knows, she may still make a turnaround in character for you.

              If I'm misunderstanding you than feel free to correct me.

              • You understood the choice part. But her voice is very monotone, and of course you haven't heard her like that before. Because her voice acting used to be beautiful. Now it ain't. She only shows emotions when Luke brings her food, when Nick shoots at her, and when being evil Clem. And only one time was she happy. Once. For a second. Despite Lee on the verge of death, there were happy moments in episode 5.

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                  CathalOHara Moderator

                  Really? I actually thought I had it the other way around. And like I've said before, of course she's like this. She's spent over two years in the apocalypse at this point. The voice acting isn't a problem at all. Clearly Telltale directed Melissa to portray Clementine in a monotone fashion. It's the intent of her character. If they wanted her to have that beautiful innocent voice she had in Season One, I'm pretty sure they could of got it done without question.

                  And once again, I need to say... of course she's now more darker and takes things that she used to smile at as nothing anymore. She's growing up in a disgusting world. It would happen to anyone. The fact that she was (to some extent) sheltered in Season One and now she's out in the cold world and has lost the closest people to her within the span of two years that she would become hardened and expressionless. Sadly, that's a fact that humans even have happen to them in life (the loss part, not the whole, zombie part).

                  • Even with Christa she was very monotone.

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                      CathalOHara Moderator

                      And again, for obvious reasons. xD I mean, her boyfriend was killed. She also had a right to be like that. She was fine in the prologue though, for the short time she was happy with Omid at her side.

                      • I'm not saying Christa was monotone, I'm saying that even with Christa Clementine was very monotone.

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                          CathalOHara Moderator

                          And what's your point? Like I said before (and sorry if you grow tired of me repeating myself), it's been almost a two year timeskip, Clementine lost everyone that's closest to her with honestly only Christa left and she's growing up in a world with a zombie apocalypse. Telltale clearly have an intent on having her act like this, it's very obvious.

                          • My point is that why would she be depressed with Christa? Someone who she'd likely be more attached to, due to their long time together, and the baby dying (probably) almost a year ago.

                            • She probably still feels guilty for inadvertently getting Omid and Lee killed and everything that they have endured together.

                              • A year later? She'd have been far more depressed from causing Lee to die. She seemed perfectly fine in the pit stop. There's no way that Omid was more important to her than Lee.

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                                  CathalOHara Moderator

                                  Remember what I said about someone being emotionally hardened from living in a disgusting world? Well that's what happened to her. She was still innocent back at the Gil's. But ever since then she has had to learn to grow up. Heck, Christa isn't even that gentle to her anymore. She began talking to her more like she was a person now and not just a child.

                                  Clementine is growing up IN a zombie apocalypse. Of course she's going to be more emotionally hardened and less open to people. Yes, she still has her sweet innocence in the prologue, but that was only because it wasn't that long since we saw her last (give or take six months) and the fact that Omid and Christa were protecting her from other people, she didn't have to fight in self-defence. She's becoming more independent, and yes... there's a good chance she even blames herself for the deaths of Lee and Omid. Of course she's going to become less open to people and even seem emotionless. Remember what Vernon said after Brie bit the dust? He said he just takes those things for granted now, as if it's the world we now live in. As sweet as Clementine was in Season One, she was on the naive side, thinking that everything was still going to be okay. She's grown up now. And she likely doesn't even believe that anymore. Because she's been in it for two years.

                                  • But notice how Vernon sounded like he gave a shit. He had actual emotions. It sounded like Pete and Luke and the rest of them had been through some shit, but they still had real emotion. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I like the new cast (aside from Rebecca). They all seem more flawed, while maintaining balance with being nice. They all seem more real (again, aside from Rebecca).

                                    Luke can be dumb. Pete can be harsh. Nick... Do I even need to say his? Carlos can be distrusting... Really distrusting. Alvin is submissive to the point of arguing to kill a child because his wife says so (unless Clem appeals to him). Clem is... Realistic. But I suppose this can be settled next episode. If the "I thought you were dead," is Kenny, then realism can go fuck itself. It would've been perfectly believable if Lee was depressed and whiny the whole first episode, but Telltale wanted him to be relatable. So they made him have a whole rainbow of emotion. Clem is believable, but they forgot the relatable part. If you reminisce on S1 Clem, then I suppose that you feel for her a bit, but if you're judging this based on its own damn content, then I couldn't tell Clem from a stick in the mud. And I don't know about you, but I don't relate with sticks in the mud.

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                                      CathalOHara Moderator

                                      I strongly agree with you on your points of the new cast, I even find it strange that critics are implying they're not as strong as Season One's. And to be honest, whenever someone is "Lost" in The Walking Dead there's a likely indication the character survived (to my knowledge, I don't read the comics but one of my best friends do). While I do still find it unbelievable that Kenny could've survived what had happened I'm not going to fully oppose the possibility. Especially with how many fans are wanting him to come back with all the obvious forum posts and the like. Pretty sure I don't need to say much for that.

                                      And actually, I did justify Clementine's character from what I solely saw from Season Two's first episode. And while I DO see your criticisms it actually is proper character growth as it's a realistic interpretation of what a young character would be like growing up in a zombie apocalypse (even to the extent where it's TOO real). Especially since it's been happening now for more than two years. And this does bring me to my one criticism, the timeskip. Clementine's character noticeably changes within that timeframe, we're only given hints to what has happened. I just hope we get to find out. Plus, Christa's attitude towards her in my book was concerning, she didn't seem to actually like her as much anymore. Wonder if any bad blood happened between them.

                                      But since we controlled Lee right when things were just getting started we'd have a better idea of his emotions and how HE should act towards other people. Plus, making Clementine like this give the player more opportunities on how THEY want to control her and have her act towards other people. Kind of hard to explain, but I hope you see my point.

                                      • Unfortunately, your first point is true. I kind of hope that Telltale is playing it like they played the people on the hill. People were saying that Omid and Christa were too obvious, so they got set in on it being Kenny and Lilly or whatever. Now, I've heard people say that it's too obvious to be Christa, so I hope it really is. Or Omid. We certainly think he's dead. But that's probably a pipe dream. Regardless, your first point is correct, at least until the point I'm at in the comics, aside from (COMIC SPOILER ALERT) Duane. (COMIC SPOILER OVER!)

                                        Realistic, realistic, realistic. Who cares that it's realistic? It's not that great from a story perspective. To have your main character mope, and care little, and when they do really care, they're making evil choices, or being afraid. Of all the things that I like, I like that we get next to nothing about what happened. They wouldn't pour their hearts out of all their pain, directly before being separated. She wouldn't explain it to Luke, because the wound likely still hasn't healed. I'm guessing that Christa blames Clementine for Omid's death. Remember the shot where it zoomed in on the gun, and then to Christa turning, then Clementine, directly after Omid and the bitch who shot him died? Yeah, that seemed like that was her connecting the dots.

                                        Well, I wanted to control a Clementine with some emotion. I never got that option, unless I was satisfied with hatred and spite.

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                                          CathalOHara Moderator

                                          I sincerely doubt it's Omid. If you say you miss him it depresses Christa greatly. I'm pretty sure it's likely that she may have buried him or... god help her, stop him from turning by doing the unthinkable. Still though, I think Kenny really is the only one it could be in that sense. Everyone wants it to be him. And the amount of speculation on his part only makes things more obvious. With that gif being thrown around everywhere.

                                          I never said realism actually mattered (I don't think I did, if it sounded like I did that's not what I was implying) I just thought it was noticeable that Telltale were trying to show what someone would REALLY be like losing everything that's close to them and the like. And to be honest, they've done a good job with her character even now. Clementine has become hardened, and she's burying her emotions now thanks to everything she's went through to this point. The way I played as her though I couldn't have asked for her character to be driven more perfectly. Who knows though, you may still change your mind in later episodes. But I'm pretty sure she's only going to become more and more darker from here on out. As for Christa being more distant towards Clementine, that's what I gathered also (obviously). Of course she didn't directly blame her for it though, but it is obvious she's more distant from Clem now. Then again, we had a Sixteen month timeskip where they were together the whole time. Anything could of happened. I hope we get some answers in regards to that soon. Pretty sure we will at some point though, likely Episode 3. Especially with her comment in Episode 1 where she said; "Just like how Christa showed me." I'm pretty sure she had to do something pretty horrible.

                                          Plus, I sensed difficulty on Telltale's part on making her the player character. It's different when it's a character we already know also. Everyone had a different sense on how they saw her character when controlling her. And how some wanted her to show more signs of empathy or emotion (you, for example) while I'm actually pretty happy with her more hardened and distant personality which I think really suits a character who went through a Zombie Apocalypse and lost nearly everyone they loved and cared for. But it is hard to make everyone happy. It's impossible really.

                                          tl;dr: Respect your opinion and all, but I really like how Clementine's character is turning out thus far. And she's only going to change more from here anyway.

                                          • If you leave Duck in the woods, Kenny still gets sad at Duck's loss. The fact that she's sad means nothing. Though he is probably dead... Anyways, everyone wanted Omid to live... Look how that turned out.

                                            Alt text

                                            If TTG is trying to have Clem Clem be realistic, then Ken surviving will disturb that realism. Granted, it is realistic, but realism isn't everything when it comes to a good story. Even if it is what they're going for. Take Niko Bellic from Grand Theft Auto 4. He laments over the people he's killed right after I finished making a pile of bodies, and blowing them up with a grenade and watching all of the bodies fly, laughing the whole time. And GTAIV has a pretty fuckin good story.

                                            It was difficult, because it was the wrong call. It made all of my choices in season 1 feel pointless. I was pretty pissed at that. It didn't even make up for it by having good choices. There was literally one choice in the whole episode that was not 90% one choice, and that was the best choice in the whole game. Nick and Pete.

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                                              CathalOHara Moderator

                                              Yeah but to be honest, nearly everyone dies in The Walking Dead and you know that better than I even. Granted, I was irritated that Omid died as quickly as he did though.

                                              It really will disturb the realism. And I do agree with you there. But I don't see Telltale being able to get away with it unless it actually is him. Christa is a possibility. But I don't see that happening just because she's already appeared this Season. And wow, someone actually PRAISING GTA IV? I was beginning to think I was the only person left in the world who actually still appreciates that game. And I actually know a few examples myself of games that have gameplay that doesn't really suit the narrative structure or the characterization. Far Cry 3 being the main one that pops in my head. I remember laughing when Niko killed someone with a knife early in GTA IV with him saying; "Shit! I didn't want to kill anyone in this city" or something down those lines. I was laughing at it because I killed like dozens of people before doing that mission.

                                              I noticed the choices part too, but there was also the choice with the bottle of water to give to the bandit also, I remember that one having a bit of nifty percentage also. Most of the choices however weren't harrowing ones at all. Prime examples being the one where you distract Christa from the bandits and finish the dog off. And you need basic humanity to do that one really. I don't see anyone that would just leave the dog there suffering.

                                              • But there's a select group of living people from the beginning of the comic that survive the whole way through. I don't know who'll die first, though. Rick or his new girlfriend. Also, that's it's biggest downfall. I think before the biggest blood bath yet, I think I forgot that they were pretty much all gonna die about a page before they all died. That's what the game is really good at. Going into it, I was thinking, wait, doesn't everyone die in the walking dead? Then I forgot that notion before Carley/Doug died. And I didn't think about it again until long after I beat the game.

                                                I have faith in TTG to not do that. Again, maybe that's what they want you to think. Also, I used to dislike GTAIV. I only liked the characters, and that was it. I mean, how could you not like Roman? He's the coolest fucking person ever. I'm so glad I didn't get him killed. Then I played GTAV, and realized that GTAIV was leagues ahead of GTAV. Another game whose narrative doesn't fit with the gameplay is XCOM: Enemy Unknown. The characters are all like, "We need to stop this, now!" Then I go to take a piss, and my soldiers, along with the aliens, wait complacently.

                                                Also, when I played, the water was 97% to 3%.

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                                                  CathalOHara Moderator

                                                  Ah, alright. I get you. I was intending on reading the comics soon actually. I read the first volume a few years back. Might need a refresher though, it's been awhile.

                                                  I always laughed at the fact that when people were to complain about Roman constantly calling you, there was scripted scenarios in the main story and not actually when you were exploring the city itself where he would actually call you to ask if you want to go bowling. I remember there was a mission that I tailed a vehicle of sorts and he called during it asking to go bowling, Niko's reaction was priceless.

                                                  It actually was for me too, I checked back at the game just there, it's 69%.

    • I hate it when people say that Clem is emotionless. She depressed. She had eveyone that she knew well either die or go missing. Her parents and Lee, the three people she loved most in the world are dead. It doesn't help that christa completely shut down on her. Clem apparently hadn't spoken much in those 16 months. That combined with feeling guilty about Lee and omid's deaths and seeing christa lose her baby. I'm sure that Clem has cried all she can and has hardened. Plus she's reveals a lot if emotions that she doesn't outwardly express in her talk with Luke. She's tough knows showing emotions won't help. But she does feel them.

  • Depends, I'd say on the contrary that it IS Clementine that gave him the strength he had during those months. he might have died at Clem's house too if she didn't help him, like he says multiple times throughout the game.

    I think Lee could do all the thing he did because he did them for her, but that's just how I want to see it :)

    Alt text

    Tell me this doesn't give you enough strength to lift a mountain.

  • I'd say that he would of survived a hell of allot longer than he did but then again you could say that Clementine was the only thing keeping him going and without her help at the house he wouldn't of gotten the hammer and killed Sandra but then you could go on to saying that he wouldn't of found the radio and gotten distracted and so on. There are endless possibilities but if Clem didn't get kidnapped and left her hat behind I'm sure that Lee wouldn't of gotten bitten anytime soon.

    • I don't think he would have either. I mean he managed to outsmart and fight off zombies multiple times and made it look easy lol.

      • But he let his guard down because he was more concerned with her life than his own, which is honestly really beautiful. And I love how his blood is on her hat, and metaphorically on her hands. xD

  • Yeah, Clem saved lee on many occasions.

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    OzzyUK Moderator

    He possibly could have fort off Sandra and left Clementines house alone and still met Shaun and gone to the farm and met Kenny and his family and they still could have gone to the dairy farm but there would be no way that they could have escaped the meat locker without Clementine going through the vent and opening the door, so he would probably have been killed and eaten by the cannibals or zombie Larry.

    • If you don't grab the hammer, Lee dies.

    • Kenny might not of taken you to Macon if you helped Shaun instead of Duck. I think the only reason he takes you in game regardless of your choice is because you have Clementine with you.

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        OzzyUK Moderator

        There are several outcomes of what could have happened without Clementine, Like Harpadarpa said without her help with the hammer he probably would have died in her house.

        • You could also argue that the reason Lee was in the house longer was because he heard the walky talky of Clem and decided to look around. This was also the reason he was in the kitchen and slipped on the blood. Perhaps if he didn't walk into the kitchen he would have still have been standing and could have exited the room before the walker attacked.

          Anyway I love these what if scenarios and believe the game would have been every different without Clem.

  • I think that lee is black

  • This forum has some very strange comments.

  • Lee a jolly good lad

  • Clem saved Lee on many occasions and would get sympathy off many groups etc having a child without her he just a convicted murderer felt his life would be meaningless and saving clem gave his life meaning i actually think he become a serial killer as have nothing left and his murderer and would not last long and if Lee never got Clem should be dead so unthinkable

  • He was never held back by her, she inspired him and saved him from Sandra, if not for her, he would of died in her house.

This discussion has been closed.