The Rational Discussion of the Negatives and Positives of Lilly and Kenny

edited January 2014 in The Walking Dead

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So, the personalities of these characters and how they act towards you is determinant based on how you treat them, especially with how you handle situations with Kenny. The situations involving these two characters basically define the tone of the story for the entire game.

Both Lilly and Kenny are good people who make bad choices:

Lilly didn't want to let people come into the drug store because it was a safety risk, knowing that they would most likely die if they weren't led into the drug store. Lilly didn't want to let Ben and his teacher into the Motor Inn camp because she didn't want to have to support more people, even though she knew they would most likely die if they didn't let them in. Lilly wanted to kick Ben out for doing what he thought was right and would protect them. Lilly wanted to shoot Ben just because she thought he was lying and untrustworthy. Lilly shot Carly because she defended Ben, got on Lilly's nerves, and possibly because she was jealous of how "close" it seemed that Lee and Carly were getting (I haven't played through the game with Carly alive past Ep1 so I don't know about that last one).

Kenny killed Larry when it was possible that he was still alive. Kenny wanted to steal from a random persons car. Kenny wanted to let a girl suffer to buy more time. Kenny acts like a jerk towards Lee if Lee didn't kill Larry with him, to the extent that it's possible that Kenny wouldn't save Lee if Lee needed help (determinant). Kenny wanted to leave Lilly out on the road ("Leaving someone out on the road alone is the same as murder!") Kenny developed a bad attitude when I feel like is perfectly summed up in this conversation about Molly: "She saved your life." "Yea, well, what has she done for me lately?" (this attitude may be determinant, I am not sure, I haven't gone through a play-through where I killed Larry with Kenny yet) Kenny wanted Lee to drop and kill Ben.

Lily and Kenny both led the group and were looking out for the good of others. Lilly wanted to keep everyone safe, and so did Kenny, they just had different ideas on how to go about it. Lilly was really grateful towards Lee when he offered to find the pharmacy keys and when he did eventually find it. Kenny saved Lee after being punched by Larry even if he didn't have to, and even if you sided with Larry against him. Lilly and Kenny continue to look out for the group into Episode 2, where Lilly is cautious about the St. Johns and just wants to leave for the safety of the group, and Kenny is also suspicious about them, but instead wants to directly confront them and find out what is up. Kenny was still looking out for the group where he killed Larry, and he was looking out for the group when he stole from the car. Lilly also showed caution on stealing from the car, which ultimately was the right call as stealing from the car is what bit them in the ass in Savannah. Lilly and Kenny continue to show concern for the group in Episode 3 and that they want to keep everyone safe. Kenny is still trusting of Lilly, and he does save Lee if he perceives him as a good friend. Kenny continues to want to keep everyone safe, if a bit over-obsessed about his plan about finding a boat, and will go with Lee to save Clementine if you plead with him in relation to family or if he perceives you as always being there for him in a tough situation (he didn't for me, even though I supported him in everything but killing Larry and stealing from the car). If you saved Ben, Kenny ends up showing mercy to Ben after going down to help him and essentially redeems his past actions towards Ben.

They are both wonderful characters with negative and positive aspects towards them. They are both good people at heart, but they have made some bad calls. I think that they are both well-loved by the fanbase and that they will both appear in Season 2.

For some reason, I have made previous posts of this nature, but people don't seem to like them, but I just wanted to post something that would talk about both the positive and negative aspects of the characters.

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Comments

  • There both good characters just people are pretty opinionated on them. So conflict occurs.

  • edited January 2014

    "people don't seem to like them" . . .

    so lets post another one!!!

    We all know what each character did. We played the game.

  • You seem so courageous ! If only we werent on a video game forum where literally 400 threads have already been made with everything you said.

  • This thread is doomed. Just like all the other ones.

  • If I see wrong in the world and speak up against it, I'm not gonna stop because there are a few naysayers against what I say.

  • I consent. Please have mercy and end my life quickly.

  • Yea, rational gets thrown out the window when discussing these two.

  • Sooner or later that Lily fan who got banned is going to make ANOTHER account and come on here and ruin the thread. I'd like a rational discussion about Kenny & Lily. Plz?

  • I have a strong feeling that this "rational" conversation will quickly become irrational.

  • A gif that shows what happens when people try to spread their ideas and theories to the public...
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  • Though I sided with Lily in episode 2 - 3, I understand where Kenny comes with all these things; he doesn't pull them out of his ass, he thinks about the group first, which is what makes a good leader. All in all, Lily seemed to have a decent idea on how to lead this group, until, of course, she snapped.

  • Well, you don't need to be a jackass about it.

  • Rational Discussion on an internet forum?

    AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHHA-oh wait, your serious.

  • I'll bite, TC. After all, if this community doesn't eventually succeed at a rational Kenny/Lilly discussion without being at eachother's throats, how are we ever going to grow?

    I'd like to start by saying that I'm not really on Team Kenny or Team Lilly.

    Lilly is a good leader, but she's a little overly authoritarian and sometimes too uncaring about people outside the group. I mean, I understand wanting to protect your people, but leaving Lee and Clem out in the street to be killed by zombies? That's harsh. However she's extremely good at taking shit from people when they disagree with her, which is really valuable in a leader.

    Lilly's more justified in trying to turn away Ben and company from the Motor Inn, since the group is starving and more people will directly threaten them. I'd say up to this point she's still quite a good leader, but she starts to go downhill when she notices the missing medical supplies. She lets her paranoia get the best of her and becomes unstable. Even if she was right about Ben stealing supplies, there's no reason to wave a gun in his face RIGHT THERE; I mean, have a freaking discussion about it. A leader should talk it through and determine a course of action, and not put themselves in a situation where their finger slips and kills someone.

    With Kenny, I really don't like how you need to basically support him 100% to make him have Lee's back. It's a group; everyone should look out for eachother no matter what. I saved Duck, I fed Kenny's family, and he still hesitated when Lee was threatened in Episode 2. I'd say that's Kenny's worst quality; he lets his loyalty be undermined by the smallest thing, even if you supported him in much more important ways. With the Larry situation he should acknowledge that Lee disagrees with him on a moral level, and he of all people should understand that you can't hold a man's morals against him even if you disagree.

    Kenny's good qualities involve the fact that he has good instincts for group preservation. Whenever someone is in danger of turning he's always the first to suggest removing the threat, which is really the best course of action if you want to keep your group alive. He's also practical and solution-focused, even when horribly depressed. The boat was a fairly good idea even if it didn't pan out. And, of course, Kenny's best qualities of all come to light if you bring Ben along for Episode 5. He comes to understand a complete enemy's point of view and puts himself in harm's way to grant Ben a merciful death... And that's self-sacrifice, one of the most admirable human traits.

    They're both very deep and very flawed characters, and I wish Lilly was around to get more character development so we could see if she would've got a kickass redemption moment like Kenny did. They definitely both have their strong points as well, and are good leaders in separate ways.

  • Agreed man. I love kenny and in arguments i always saw his point of veiw right (Family first) but lilly needs a comeback

  • Thanks, this is exactly the kind of thing I wanted.

  • Yeah, Lilly cared about Clementine, there is a lot of evidence to support this.

  • Lilly and Kenny both had pros and cons to their character. With Kenny, it was all about his family and what he thought was best to keep them alive. I totally respect that, it just bothered me that if you didn't side with him all the time he gave you shit about it. It just rubbed me the wrong way. But I understood his reasoning behind his actions.

    With Lilly, I think she really did have Lee's back and (in her mind) the best intentions for the group (concerning their survival). She constantly had Lee's back (if you were "nice" to Larry). Obviously when she lost her father and knew someone was messing with the group she snapped and killed Carley (or Doug) and that was unforgivable. Even though she was one of my favorite characters up until that point, I left her on the side of the road. Even so, I'd love to see her come back. I think she did care about Clementine in her own way.

    Basically they were both flawed and while I prefer Lilly to Kenny, I definitely see the other side.

  • In general, both have done bad/good. In my honest opinion, at least what Lily did was for the benefit of the group even though it was obviously detrimental. The only time Kenny seemed to put the groups well-being above his own is when he decided to sacrifice himself for Ben. . .who would have died anyway.

  • No there isn't. In fact, the only evidence to support this is that Lilly gave Clem the hair thingies.
    In my game, I got the idea that Kenny and Clem were pretty close because after Lee got bit, and I told them all not to come with me, Kenny refused to let Lee go on his own, saying them Lee and Clementine were the only family he had left.

  • I honestly prefer Kenny's character, and i'm actually going to use something I said on another thread to show why:

    If you totally support Lilly, then eventually, she kills Carely(or Doug), throws you under the bus by telling everyone you're a murderer, and then leaves with the RV even if you say you want to go with her.

    If you support Kenny, then by the end he considers Lee and Clem to be the only family he has left, and basically follows Lee into hell on earth, eventually forgiving Ben(or not), and sacrificing himself trying to save Ben(or Christa).

    If you didn't support Lilly, same thing happens, but throughout the entire game she was horrible, negative, and basically stood by and watched as Lee was about to be killed(and she had a gun and a clear shot).

    If you didn't support Kenny, then he doesn't end up going with you at first, doesn't like you, but is still a good guy throughout the entire game(in my opinion), and he still forgives Ben if Ben is alive, and sacrifices himself to save Ben and Lee, or save Christa.

  • edited January 2014

    Rational discussion?On TTG forums? :P

    Anyway,OT:Both are good in their own way,it depends from person to person.Both had pros and cons,even though in the game itself siding with Kenny just benefits Lee more.
    Personally between the two of them,as a character I prefer Kenny.I share his view on a few (not all) things,but that's just my opinion.

    1. Hair thingies
    2. Lilly is shown in Jolene's video talking to Clementine as she draws, and Lilly has a smile on her face.
    3. Before Lilly takes the RV and you agree to go with her, she says for you to get Clementine before leaving.

    If that isn't evidence then I don't know what is.

  • If You wanna have a rational discussion about Kenny/Lily you're gonna have a bad time.............

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  • edited January 2014

    Yeah, Lilly cares so much about Clementine when she steals the RV - even if you have always supported her

  • What does that have to do with her and Clem's relationship?

  • Actually she got her original account back because i saw her discussing it with someone else on another topic yesterday

  • Lily>Kenny. That really isn't saying much, though.

  • Well, I took the last thing as an excuse to get Lee out of the RV so she can leave without him. Because if i'm not mistaken, that's what she does.

    And for #2, Kenny talks to Clem in episode 1 plenty of times, he also shows concern for her when they're in the drugstore.

    I'm still going to stick with the "You and Clem are the only family I have left" line that Kenny says as some proof that Kenny and Clem were close.

  • edited January 2014

    I'm not denying that, but that is not disproving that Lilly cares for Clementine. I'm not denying that Kenny talks to Clementine, but what does that have to do with Lilly? I'm not denying the fact that Kenny cares for Clem, but he only says that if you make the right choices and it has nothing to do with Lilly.

  • edited January 2014

    Some good discussion was had here: http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/52437/kenny-and-lilly-are-the-same-/ if anyone cares to read.

  • She tells you to go get Clem and they can all leave in the RV together, but it turns out to be an excuse to get you out of the RV, as she leaves as soon as you exit.

  • Until you support your opinion at all, I'm going to dislike your comment.

  • Kenny just isn't likeable to me. Lily isn't either, but she didn't hold stupid grudges against me. Dislike away, if you must.

  • No, I'm not saying that Lilly didn't care for Clem either, I'm just saying that, at least to my view, Kenny and Clem are closer than Lilly and Clem.
    No matter who you support, Kenny does generally try and help people, and seems like a good guy, and Lilly always seems a bit on the negative side, and just doesn't seem to like people as a whole.

  • Are you kidding me ?

    When she steals the RV, she doesn't only let Lee down, but also Clementine.

    If she cared about Clem, she would mean it when she tells Lee "Get Clementine", instead of using the girl as an excuse for getting Lee out the RV.

  • My reasoning is I hate Lily less than I hate Kenny. I not fond of either of them. Kenny, for just being a stubborn guy and Lily for having a itchy trigger finger.

  • So... No reason for your opinion? You just didn't like him.

    Okay, I guess not everyone needs to elaborate their thoughts.

  • Lilly focused on keeping the group alive, which means she was forced to make hard choices herself (Creating rations to keep the group fed, deciding who gets the food at that time and who doesn't knowing that someone could go a whole day without food (the stress)) the only reason she has to hate someone if someone doesn't appreciate what she does for the group, as she says "Look, I'm working my ass off to make sure we have a good set up here, and Kenny just doesn't appreciate it." I guarantee that if people were more appreciative of what she does, she wouldn't be so pissed at people.

  • edited January 2014

    The question is....why exactly are people still arguing over Lilly and Kenny?That was great in S1,but now....?Its S2,and S1 is behind.Every character got their final scene,every character showed their intentions,their loyalties (or opposite) to you,etc. etc. so why the need to still argue about it?Everyone already said all the opinions about Kenny and Lilly back in the old forums,why start all over again now?
    The forums are on fire from all the arguing and insults from Lily vs. Kenny teams as if we are still on Episode 3 in Season 1;so hey,Lilly killed Carley and Kenny was an ass to you at the opening scene.

    Don't get me wrong,I have nothing against discussions over TWD characters,but people need to calm down a bit.

This discussion has been closed.