Really...Nobody Else Handled the St. John Brothers?

edited January 2014 in The Walking Dead

Long story short, I just picked this game up a week ago and played through it in a few days. It was exceptional and I liked it a ton. This is actually my first post.

Getting back on topic...I was kind of surprised to see that hardly anybody killed both of the St John brothers. Upon finishing episode 2, I noticed that only something like 18% of players chose to do this. While the St. Johns looked like they were good people before the world turned to shit (minus Danny - he seemed odd from the beginning), they obviously threw whatever principles they had out the window in the name of survival.

These people were literally surviving by trapping unsuspecting travelers and feeding off of them. They even had a system in place to keep captive travelers alive through the use of morphine and various other medical supplies - so they could continue feeding off of them. As Danny put it, you didn't want somebody to become "tainted". On top of that, they even had special rooms set aside for the specific purpose of harvesting human beings (the back of the barn and secret room upstairs).

Apparently this system had been in place for some time as well. This is evident by a few things:

  1. It had been going on long enough for the St. Johns to make some kind of protection arrangement with the local bandits. This deal revolved around the St. Johns giving food to the bandits in order to keep them at bay. Seeing as how the farm only had 1 cow, it seems as if they were giving away human flesh. This theory is backed up by Jolene (crazy lady you and Danny find while looking for a bandit camp) saying something along the lines that she knows what the St. Johns have been doing.

  2. After seeing David (Ben's teacher) get trapped on a random bear trap in the beginning of the episode and later seeing Danny fall to the same kind of trap, it became obvious that the St. Johns were responsible for laying that trap as well. Why do I think the trap was sprung for humans and not animals? It had been modified in such a way that there was no release mechanism on it. You wouldn't need to remove that part if you were just trapping animals.

So after the shit hit the fan with Mark and after putting all these things together as the story progressed, it was an easy decision to have Lee kill them both. I honestly felt like that if I left them alive, whats to stop them from trying to do this again to somebody else? They had obviously lost any kind of morals and decency by the time this situation played out.

So what did you do and why? And just for a frame of reference, I didn't just have my Lee going around killing everybody like Rambo or something. I actually tried to save Larry, let Lilly stay in the RV after she snapped and killed Carly, and pulled Ben up when he wanted me to drop him. My Lee was very much a pragmatist with a strong sense of situational ethics.

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Comments

  • edited January 2014

    Same I tried to save Larry, Let Lily in RV and saved Ben. But I Killed the two ST Johns brothers, and I believe anyone who didn't made a bad choice. Even if Clem was watching it shouldn't matter, the ST Johns know where you live, they will be out for vengeance if they are allowed to live on top of that they deserve to die before they kill more innocents and for the ones they already killed. Most of the decisions in the game can be seen from two point of views but this is one of the decisions where I believe there realistically is only one right choice and thats to kill them both

  • Didnt kill either though wish I had honestly.

    However the stats trailer showed that 55% killed Danny but only 18% killed Andy (I dont think hardly anyone killed Andy and not Danny. However then the game shows a big guilt trip "Clemetine witnessed that, look shes disappointed in you" which guilt tripped many into leaving Andy alive. Other people thought leaving Andy was worse than killing him seeing how as he had to live with the loss of his family before being presumably eaten.

  • Yeah alot of people were guilt tripped out of killing Andy but that's irresponsible from my point of view. I mean Clementine was just an 8 year old, she doesn't know whats best for her, Lee is the adult and the one who has to make the decisions to protect her, Andy already showed he isn't above killing children by grabbing Clementine and putting a gun to Ducks head and also Leaving Andy is the wrong choice because there is no reason he couldn't get away and I know some people say the walkers where coming in to eat him but that scene only happens after the decision to leave him, when you decide to leave him there isn't any walkers breaking in

    Didnt kill either though wish I had honestly. However the stats trailer showed that 55% killed Danny but only 18% killed Andy (I

  • I see your point about Andrew being left alive. However, I don't think you see the walkers advancing on the farm until after the "Do you kill him or not" situation arose. I had no idea the place was about to be swarmed until right after the moment I killed him. Nonetheless, I think I'd still kill him regardless just not to leave things upto chance. God knows nobody needs another "stranger" scenario unfolding...

    Didnt kill either though wish I had honestly. However the stats trailer showed that 55% killed Danny but only 18% killed Andy (I

  • edited January 2014

    I spared Andy because I was trying to come back from a long series of increasingly dark and pragmatic choices that I felt were changing my Lee. I shot Jolene, killed Larry, and pitchforked Danny. I spared Andy because I already had too much blood on my hands. He was beaten anyway. His family was dead, his haven was crushed, and even if he found the will to flee the bandits would make short work of him. I don't think he eer got up from his spot, though. He was too broken to do anything but let the walkers chow down, in a dark ironic death.

  • edited January 2014

    Episode 2 is my favourite episode because it's a real turning point for the group, Lee/Kenny either strengthen their relationship or deeply fracture it, Kenny/Lily Rivalry increases, also my Lee realised the dangers of people in this episode and vowed to protect Clem against all evil in this world, So I killed the brothers and then even in the next episode when we met Omid and Christa I was sure not to trust them straight away because of my experiences with the ST johns

    Rock114 posted: »

    I spared Andy because I was trying to come back from a long series of increasingly dark and pragmatic choices that I felt were chang

  • I did and the reason why is because i figured that Lee And Ken where gonna die at some point , So i knew Clem would be by herself and if those people ever saw her again that would spell T R O U B L E

  • It was this episode in the game where I realised who I am in this scenario. I was the guy who tried to keep everyone alive no matter what. I let them live because I refused to kill unless I absolutely had to. I mean, Danny was practically begging for it but I refused because I wouldn't let this world beat who I am. I did have a moment when I was between Andy and the group when I thought: "this guy just won't stop". But I decided against it because, at the end, I was determined to not kill unless I had to.

    Sounds dumb but this was the episode where I properly invested who I am into the game. As a result...I wouldn't kill.

  • Yeah there sure was a lot of different dynamics going on during that episode. It really helped define the kind of person you wanted Lee to represent. While it sucked that Mark died, this episode wasn't even as close to being as sad as episode 3, where literally most of your group dies.

    Crixus posted: »

    Episode 2 is my favourite episode because it's a real turning point for the group, Lee/Kenny either strengthen their relationship or

  • I killed both brothers too. Thought the last one might try to get revenge.

  • edited January 2014

    These are the reasons I loved it too. But the scary thing is, every time I had the choice to kill someone, I did. Jolene because she threatened to kill everyone at the dairy, Larry because I thought he was about to come back, and Danny because, like the OP and others, I was afraid he'd keep doing it if he got out or that he might come after us. I didn't want to have any more blood on my Lee's hands by that point. It was actually a bit of a struggle to leave Andy there. The only thing I can look at in a positive light is that I never killed anyone because I hated them (Larry, Danny). Just to protect the group. So my Lee was more of an anti-hero than anything else.

    Of course, after Episode 3, I kind of said "Fuck it" after everyone died. After that I just did whatever it took to keep Clem alive. Kind of like Kenny with the pragmatism, but I wasn't as much of a jerk as he was during that Episode.

    Crixus posted: »

    Episode 2 is my favourite episode because it's a real turning point for the group, Lee/Kenny either strengthen their relationship or

  • Yeah EP 3 i see is the beginning of the end for the group

    Yeah there sure was a lot of different dynamics going on during that episode. It really helped define the kind of person you wanted

  • I was... remorseful that Clem had to witness Danny be killed, but no regret, it had to be done. When the option came to finish Andy, it was a juicy opportunity for me, I noticed the crowd watching me, but I wanted to beat him to death after what they did to Mark, was way too pissed at them to just walk away. Wouldnt have been right to let him live, I tried to think if I was one of the other people in the group and if Lee just walked away, Id think the others would have just moved in to finish him instead.

  • That in a nutshell my friend is why I love Role Playing games because they make you look at yourself. I played as a guy who was loyal to his group but will kill anyone who I deem a threat to Clem and my group and yes killing the ST Johns made me more ruthless but overall I think that is for the better because I think that ruthfulness could save your life one day. I'd definitely become alot darker if it happened but for the right reasons I think.Probably why I identify so much with Shane in TV series and even the Govenor as opposed to Rick

    TimeMasterX posted: »

    It was this episode in the game where I realised who I am in this scenario. I was the guy who tried to keep everyone alive no matter

  • Hell yeah I killed them. They were way too far gone and deserved it. It was a good lesson for Clem too, that some killings are justified in this new world.

  • Killed the first guy, Clementine made me feel like crap, let the other guy go. I dont like killing characters who are unarmed and already subdued anyway so I immediately regretted the first one.

  • Yeah, one of my sentiments for Clem was to speak softly and carry a big stick.

    Be good to your friends and group, but prepared to fight back.

    Crixus posted: »

    Same I tried to save Larry, Let Lily in RV and saved Ben. But I Killed the two ST Johns brothers, and I believe anyone who didn't ma

  • I chose to spare both. I was going to kill Danny, but he said something that made me spare him.

    Back in the woods, I shot Jolene. She was crazy, and in real life, in the apocalypse, I wouldn't want to run the risk of dying just to listen to her ramblings. I didn't think the St. John's were untrustworthy at the time.

    You know how he calls you a coward right before before you kill him? If you shoot Jolene, you get a new dialouge.

    He says, "DO IT THEN! I know you can! I've seen you do it! Just like you killed that woman in the camp!" The fact that he was actively telling me to kill him made my blood run cold.

    I paused and considered the situation. He was stuck in a fucking bear trap with no release latch. He ain't getting out of that. Better to let him bleed out and suffer.

    When I got to Andy, I figured that since he was going to loose his entire family, leaving him alive and suffering would be the better revenge. I'm glad he got eaten by his undead mom though.

  • edited January 2014

    My problem with that is though what if Andy rescues Danny they recover for a little while then set out for revenge,then one day out of nowhere your group comes under fire by them, I mean in the Motor Inn we're sitting Ducks and all it takes is a few shots from Charlotte to kill a few of our members

    Michael7123 posted: »

    I chose to spare both. I was going to kill Danny, but he said something that made me spare him. Back in the woods, I shot Jolene.

  • Man, when Danny said he knew I could do it... Jeez. It was a Palpatine moment. "Strike me down with all your hatred" and such. I didn't kill him because I hated him, but it still got to me. Even in that split second BEFORE the camera focused on Clem.

    Michael7123 posted: »

    I chose to spare both. I was going to kill Danny, but he said something that made me spare him. Back in the woods, I shot Jolene.

  • I didn't kill Jolene so Danny was pretty much taunting me saying I "didn't have the balls" and I believe his last words where "Fucking Coward", not a wise thing to say to a man who already hates you :P

    Rock114 posted: »

    Man, when Danny said he knew I could do it... Jeez. It was a Palpatine moment. "Strike me down with all your hatred" and such. I didn't kill him because I hated him, but it still got to me. Even in that split second BEFORE the camera focused on Clem.

  • His last words to me were "...complete your journey to the DARK SIDE!"

    Fuck, man, I did it, but never got the option to shoot lightning from my fingers. So much for "choices" Telltale.

    Crixus posted: »

    I didn't kill Jolene so Danny was pretty much taunting me saying I "didn't have the balls" and I believe his last words where "Fucking Coward", not a wise thing to say to a man who already hates you :P

  • I spared both of them.

    I was ready to kill both of them, but there comes a time, even in a fight for your life, where you have won, and there is no point in continuing. Doing so would be considered, even in a post-apocalyptic world, an excessive use of force.

    Danny - He pointed a gun right at me as soon as I opened the door. A struggle for my life followed, and even Kenny had to rescue me at one point. It was a fight for life and death and I would do whatever it takes to protect myself and my friends. But once he stepped in that trap, his threat value literally diminished to 0. There was absolutely no point in killing him, now. Doing so would turn me into the cold blooded beings that I accused them of being.

    Andy - Even after holding a little boy hostage, shooting my friend in the abdomen, and attempting to push my face into an electric fence, there was another "you've already won" moments. I got on top of him, and I clicked on his face, and I clicked HARD! I had no intention of stopping. Luckily, the entire group, even Clementine, was there. And without a word, without a single word, just the look on her precious eight-year-old-face, reminded me who I was. I almost became what I hated that night, but once I saw her, I instead became the better man. I stopped punching. Even when he begged me to finish it, I had to stop and think for an instant. But no, the most important thing to teach the little girl who depended on me at this time calls back to what I told her earlier when she asked me "Do you think things will ever go back to normal?". If they have any chance of doing so, then we have to be willing to let it happen. And that REQUIRES not being the savage that you become when you kick a bloody, beaten, and defeated man into an electric fence.

    There are no right or wrong choices. But in my heart, I made the best choice. Time in season 2 will tell if the same message got to her heart, as well.

  • Spared both because danny begged for his life so no fun in killing and wanted to die and felt im a convicted murderer and will not let myself proof im a killer. Andy felt his life was destroyed after told him that family dead and left him there showing the group i have morals and not a killer every decision i made definitely was influenced by clementine didnt want her to see my bad side if clem wasnt in the game definitely be serial killer even didnt rob because she said not to and felt she was right

  • I killed Danny. IMO he was the worst one. when it came down to killing andy i thought to myself. The farms overrun, He lost his only family and everyone is watching it was better to let him suffer and live then kill him.

  • edited January 2014

    They were pretty much the definition of evil though. What if you let them live and they go on to do this again to somebody else? Mind you there are no police or legal system in place anymore, so people are pretty much free to do whatever they want without consequence. For me it was awkward having the group watch me when I shot Andrew but, IMHO he was an evil man who had to die. Same with his demented brother...

    Markd4547 posted: »

    Spared both because danny begged for his life so no fun in killing and wanted to die and felt im a convicted murderer and will not l

  • edited January 2014

    Well Danny does tell you to kill him a few times, but conversely he says "you have to keep me alive, otherwise the meat gets tainted, its how the world works now." Initially I thought about letting him rot in the trap, but after that, I was both disturbed and offended by the implication, he just proved that he was way to screwed up to let live, even in agony lying there.

    Michael7123 posted: »

    I chose to spare both. I was going to kill Danny, but he said something that made me spare him. Back in the woods, I shot Jolene.

  • I didn't kill them.

  • I don't think The St. Johns would go after your group after Brenda get's killed. Sending them a message should have been enough, but I can't judge someone who thinks it's necessary to kill them. I understand.

    Crixus posted: »

    Same I tried to save Larry, Let Lily in RV and saved Ben. But I Killed the two ST Johns brothers, and I believe anyone who didn't ma

  • Pretty much what I did. When Danny said "You ain't gonna kill me" I thought "Oh really?" and killed him without remorse. I was planning on killing Andy but he already lost everything else. Letting him live with it seemed like a more fitting punishment if he likely wasn't eaten by walkers.

    Lord_zasca posted: »

    I killed Danny. IMO he was the worst one. when it came down to killing andy i thought to myself. The farms overrun, He lost his only family and everyone is watching it was better to let him suffer and live then kill him.

  • I killed them both in two of my playthroughs and left them alive in one "just cause". lol

  • I prefered to not kill them. If you kill them, it's an instant death. If you don't, they'll die slowly as zombies eat their faces. Quite better uh?

  • id dint kill them because i dont want clem to see this or need t tell her she wold be sad

  • Changed the thread title to be slightly less spoilery.

    As for me, I made the choice to kill them both. It was not because of a grudge I had against them. I felt I had to be pragmatic and protect other survivors from potentially dealing with the St Johns.

  • I killed them out of mercy, well, Andy at least. Danny called me a coward and I was like BITCH PLEASE and stabbed him.

  • Blind SniperBlind Sniper Moderator
    edited January 2014

    The thought of Lee literally saying "BITCH PLEASE" and then stabbing Danny amuses me. :P

    PoopBrown posted: »

    I killed them out of mercy, well, Andy at least. Danny called me a coward and I was like BITCH PLEASE and stabbed him.

  • I didn't kill Jolene, tried to save Larry, and promised myself to kill Andy just for what he did to Clem. But in the end i couldn't do it because i was killed his brother with pure rage. So i beat him and then choose to left him, i thought after what i did to his brother and mother (undirectly) i was killed him already i still can't see a reason to why he would try to survive after he said "Come and finish this Lee!!"

    For other choices i kept Lilly in the RV, saved and support Ben everytime (even i don't like him and was sure he will fail...again).

  • Well it would be an instant death because you killed them.

    hihitwd posted: »

    I prefered to not kill them. If you kill them, it's an instant death. If you don't, they'll die slowly as zombies eat their faces. Quite better uh?

    1. Danny just lost his leg in a bear trap. Threat neutralized, since they have no doctor to save it.

    2. By the time you have Andy beaten, his family is either dead or out of the equation. Moreover, he himself appears to be broken and seeking death. Again, threat neutralized, and that's even before the army of walkers comes through.

    In both cases, the 8 year old child who looks up to you is watching everything, which meant that any time I had to kill someone I needed to make sure it was absolutely necessary in the given circumstances. I admit I hesitated for a moment about whether to kill Danny, partly because I didn't know Clem was watching, but I spared Andy without any hesitation at all.

  • Yeah forgot to add, i guess there's no hint about Clem and Lilly are following you at that moment but maybe i'm not sure, if i knew she was witnessing probably i wouldn't let my anger leads me

    * Danny just lost his leg in a bear trap. Threat neutralized, since they have no doctor to save it. * By the time you have Andy b

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