Why did Telltale keep referring to M****** as W*****'s 'friend'?

edited March 2014 in The Walking Dead

Come on telltale. We know they were a gay couple. The picture, the knife with their initials, the way they spoke about Matthew.

It's good that you did acknowledge a sizeable proportion of people, but did you really feel you had to not state it, just because a few homophobic assholes might have got uppity?

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Comments

  • edited March 2014

    On the other hand, why do you insist they MUST say that they were gay? Who gives a damn? I see no one shoving their heterosexuality into anyone's faces, do you?

  • edited March 2014

    Kenny told Clem that Sarita was 'his girl'....

    What's the difference between him saying that and Walter saying matthew was 'his guy'?

    On the other hand, why do you insist they MUST say that they were gay? Who gives a damn? I see no one shoving their heterosexuality into anyone's faces, do you?

  • OzzyUKOzzyUK Moderator

    He told Clem that Matthew was his partner.

    Flog61 posted: »

    Kenny told Clem that Sarita was 'his girl'.... What's the difference between him saying that and Walter saying matthew was 'his guy'?

  • edited March 2014

    The fact that you seem upset that Walter didn't explicitly state that Matthew was his partner is kind of weird to me. Why does it bother you that much?

  • edited March 2014

    Im not upset at all.

    I'm just curious because almost all other relationships in the game have been told to us. Like, it would be like is describing Katjaa as Kenny's 'friend' a couple of moments after meeting them.

    ackwell posted: »

    The fact that you seem upset that Walter didn't explicitly state that Matthew was his partner is kind of weird to me. Why does it bother you that much?

  • edited March 2014

    If Walter had said "Matthew is my man", it wouldn't have sounded any better. It could have still only meant "friend". "My guy" also sounds weird. his guy for what? No one would understand unless they are psychic or Walter would be a bit more specific. And NO ONE wants people to be too specific. No matter their sexual preferences.

    Flog61 posted: »

    Kenny told Clem that Sarita was 'his girl'.... What's the difference between him saying that and Walter saying matthew was 'his guy'?

  • I know, I'm talking about the others referring to him as his 'friend'.

    OzzyUK posted: »

    He told Clem that Matthew was his partner.

  • Who is Lenny

    Flog61 posted: »

    Im not upset at all. I'm just curious because almost all other relationships in the game have been told to us. Like, it would be like is describing Katjaa as Kenny's 'friend' a couple of moments after meeting them.

  • Are you saying that when Kenny calls Sarita 'my girl' it's ambiguous?

    Hmm that's an interesting point. Maybe they're just 'friends'.

    If Walter had said "Matthew is my man", it wouldn't have sounded any better. It could have still only meant "friend". "My guy" als

  • Katjaa is cheating with Kenny? Lenny you bastard!

    Alt text

    Flog61 posted: »

    Im not upset at all. I'm just curious because almost all other relationships in the game have been told to us. Like, it would be like is describing Katjaa as Kenny's 'friend' a couple of moments after meeting them.

  • Sorry, my phone autocorrects 'Kenny' to 'Lenny'.

    Who is Lenny

  • But there is a difference between my girl and my guy/man/whatever. I'm not Homosassa but I've got my man, my guys, my main bro. It just means different things.

    Flog61 posted: »

    Are you saying that when Kenny calls Sarita 'my girl' it's ambiguous? Hmm that's an interesting point. Maybe they're just 'friends'.

  • Homosassa? Thanks phone, I don't even know what that means!

    Viva-La-Lee posted: »

    But there is a difference between my girl and my guy/man/whatever. I'm not Homosassa but I've got my man, my guys, my main bro. It just means different things.

  • Ohh so if a woman referred to someone as 'my man' it wouldn't at all imply that she was in a relationship with him?

    'Hes my man' is just a platonic referral then? Hmm, interesting point.

    Viva-La-Lee posted: »

    But there is a difference between my girl and my guy/man/whatever. I'm not Homosassa but I've got my man, my guys, my main bro. It just means different things.

  • I know right why do they have to be labeled? Cant they just be 2 guys in a relationship and what they do is up to them. Sure they are gay but why label them if they dont pronounce their label out loud when they can be classified as people just as us.

    When Im around Lesbians I dont say "hey guys Im heterosexual and proud of it." That would just be weird.

    I could understand if someone was bashing them in the episode for for their sexuality for them to just come out and say it and that their proud of it but that was never the case they were treated like people.

    ackwell posted: »

    The fact that you seem upset that Walter didn't explicitly state that Matthew was his partner is kind of weird to me. Why does it bother you that much?

  • It's a pretty obivious that they are gays, so why it must have to be sayed?

  • When did I say I want him t say 'I'm homosexual'?

    I am making the point that Kenny tells us that Katjaa is his wife and things like that. That's not really what you are talking about

    I know right why do they have to be labeled? Cant they just be 2 guys in a relationship and what they do is up to them. Sure they

  • I got a bit of a vibe they might be gay. I liked that it was ambiguous.

  • People are missing my point, so a clarification:

    It's not that it was never specifically mentioned that they were gay -I understand some homophobes may not be comfortable with that truth - but that everyone clearly described them as 'friends'. They gave the relationship between the two a title and it was not like what they gave to Kenny an Katjaa.

  • No you are rephrasing the point you already made, if you were to try to refute my point using my example but changing the genders it would be a girl saying 'my girl' and my point would still stand valid. Without proper integral understanding of that woman most people would assume they were good, or best, friends not lovers/partners.

    Flog61 posted: »

    Ohh so if a woman referred to someone as 'my man' it wouldn't at all imply that she was in a relationship with him? 'Hes my man' is just a platonic referral then? Hmm, interesting point.

  • ...dude it's not really ambiguous.

    Walter refers to him as his 'partner' - highly unlikely to mean business partner here

    Sarita says that they went on lots of vacations together

    Walter would not be as angry as he was if it was just a friendship

    The picture was them alone with their arms around each other.

    And lastly, most obvious of all, they had the knife initialised after each other. 'Walter Matthew'. 'Friends' simply don't do that kind of thing.

    Rtboh posted: »

    I got a bit of a vibe they might be gay. I liked that it was ambiguous.

  • The fact that you think this changes based on sex is a bit odd is it not?

    Isn't that rather heteronormative, as well as sexist?

    Viva-La-Lee posted: »

    No you are rephrasing the point you already made, if you were to try to refute my point using my example but changing the genders

  • It's neither. The fact you push such labels on me is terrible. It's just how the majority view the English language and how the majority use the English language. If you were to hear a man say 'Yeah, that's my man,' then proportion dictates the usual outcome of that scenario is it is a heterosexual man speaking highly of his friend. It's just proportion and probability, nothing else.

    Flog61 posted: »

    The fact that you think this changes based on sex is a bit odd is it not? Isn't that rather heteronormative, as well as sexist?

  • edited March 2014

    Yeah, I thought they handled this one nice. It was pretty obvious that there was something between them but they dont force it. I understood it so I don't need him saying "Btw, we were together. I'm gay." It felt real to me and I liked it :)

    Compare this to Bioware, especially DA:2.

  • Ah but that's the thing: just because the english language has come to accept those words as having different contexts, it doesn't make it any less heteronormative.

    If we have a man saying 'he's my man' then you may well be right: he may be saying 'for the job'. However, there are issues with this:

    Most of the time the phrase is used to mean that, it IS followed by saying 'my man for x'

    Secondly, most men who say that do not a) go on holiday with one specific male a lot,

    b) Have a knife engraved with both your first initials

    c) Refer to him as your partner

    These criteria significantly narrow our analysis with the result that the majority of the poeople who have done that list, or similar, ARE actually talking about their partner.

    When I talk about my husband, I occassionally call him 'my guy' and people who I don't know understand what I mean easily, because of a) stresses of language, b) circumstance and c) inflection.

    Viva-La-Lee posted: »

    It's neither. The fact you push such labels on me is terrible. It's just how the majority view the English language and how the ma

  • edited March 2014

    ...umm, I've played dragon age II 6 times in total, and that does not happen.

    He hits on you once, not twice (and CERTAINLY not with that kind of language), and you gain 5 rivarly points. 5 is slightly slightly different to 500.

    Also, Isabela hit on me as well, when I was only interested in Sebastian, and I didn't complain about it, I just said once that I wasn't interested in girls, and she moved on, as did I.

    Itzahk posted: »

    Yeah, I thought they handled this one nice. It was pretty obvious that there was something between them but they dont force it. I

  • It could be, but I honestly didn't get that impression.

  • edited March 2014

    I got the impression that they were together, but I don't see the big deal in the fact that the game didn't really explicitly state it. Well, Walter does call Matthew his partner, so there's that. It was a shame that they both died, I mean, I would've liked for at least one of them to live.

  • edited March 2014

    .....it's not really an impression, it's pretty much spelled out for us...

    It could be, but I honestly didn't get that impression.

  • I didn't think of this at all when I played, I saw a group of two guys who were most likely best friends.

  • ok, I'm staying out of this.

  • Pretty sure you are not correct about 'my man for x' I've never heard that unless the person was referring to illegal items, otherwise it's just referring to him being a friend.

    So what your doing is calling out the English language, or how people interpret it more so? Yeah.... kay. We shall now change the way we understand our language to appease you. Any other changes you would like to make?

    I'll leave on this note. Your constant pleading cries for someone to come on screen and say "HEY YEAH EVERYONE, IM GAY." Just so you can say there is a gay person in TWO is becoming annoying. You said it yourself that it was easy to notice these two were a couple so why is that not good enough for you? Everyone with half a brain can see they were more than simple friends due to all the reasons you posted previously. They were gay, why does it make it more meaningful for them to blatantly say it?

    Flog61 posted: »

    Ah but that's the thing: just because the english language has come to accept those words as having different contexts, it doesn't

  • GOUSTTTTGOUSTTTT Banned
    edited March 2014

    I liked both of them :(

    Zyphon posted: »

    I got the impression that they were together, but I don't see the big deal in the fact that the game didn't really explicitly stat

  • edited March 2014

    You haven't? There is some hilarious dialogue after the first personal quest, it's very obvious :P

    (I think at least, haven't played it for a while. Could be that I just don't like the character but I think the romances in DA:2 was poorly written).

    Btw: Sorry for going off topic

    Flog61 posted: »

    ...umm, I've played dragon age II 6 times in total, and that does not happen. He hits on you once, not twice (and CERTAINLY not

  • 1) No-one really says it outside of a relationship context anyway, not these days.

    2) As a linguistics student, analysing the english language is interesting to me, and it's certainly useful.

    Like so, for an example...

    Okay, colloquially ';gay' means 'bad' lately doesn't it? Like 'that's so gay' or similar?

    Right, well if you tell someone that saying such a thing is homophobic, them saying 'ah but that's just the english language' is not a valid rebuttal.

    And can you PLEASE tell me when I said I want people to come on screen and shout 'I'M GAY'? I genuinely never said that and I am upset that people keep putting these words into my mouth.

    Nor did I EVER say I want them to say that they were a couple! You're twisting my point!

    I am referring to the fact that characters call them 'friends' when, as you so rightly say, it's easy to notice that they are a couple!

    Viva-La-Lee posted: »

    Pretty sure you are not correct about 'my man for x' I've never heard that unless the person was referring to illegal items, other

  • ....best friends who go on holidays all the time with each other, got a monogrammed knife together, call each other their 'partner' and get intensely angry when the other is in danger/dead?

    Well...that is POSSIBLE, but think of it this way: if Walter had actually been a woman, and there was a picture of them on holiday with their arms around each other, a knife monogrammed with their initials and their naming of their relationship with 'partner', would you not assume that they were in a relationship?

    I didn't think of this at all when I played, I saw a group of two guys who were most likely best friends.

  • After the first personal quest he tells you he likes you. Once, not twice :P

    And I don't really see how someone having feelings for someone else is hilarious?

    I agree that the romances were badly written (except Isabela's imo) and I don't like Anders much, but people often unfairly refer to his comments.

    Itzahk posted: »

    You haven't? There is some hilarious dialogue after the first personal quest, it's very obvious :P (I think at least, haven't p

  • Yeah exactly, so why they have to say it? It's too fucking obivious that they were gays.

    Flog61 posted: »

    .....it's not really an impression, it's pretty much spelled out for us...

  • I know, I liked them both as well. There's never a happy ending in TWD, not sure why I should've expected one here...

    GOUSTTTT posted: »

    I liked both of them

  • Your point becomes moot when Walter straight up says that Matthew is his partner. Otherwise, the game is character driven so it's safe to assume the ones that call them friends could be concerned that some of the new people are homophobic or they are homophobic themselves. This goes without saying that Matthew having any relationship to Kenny's group is slowly building throughout the episode and the idea that he is more than just a friend lands even more with people who didn't realize before seeing the picture.

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