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Ben was mistreated.

edited March 2014 in The Walking Dead

Ok, so he is an idiot, we all know that. But do you guys think he was just a nice guy constantly messing up? And he was pushed around. He really did try to help. He also lost everyone he knew. He was actually not a bad guy. What do you guys think?

Comments

  • I think people too readily fault him for Duck and Katjaa's deaths when the circumstances leading up to that were for the most part completely outside of his control. If there's no possible way he or anyone could have forseen that as an outcome of his actions, he shouldn't be faulted for it.

    Fuck him for ditching Clem at the beginning of episode 4 though.

  • My first Playtrough i really liked him....i treated him nicely even though he fucked up,But the Moment he Put Clementine in Danger i Fucking Lost it,
    I forgave him at the Staircase where i could choose to drop him or save him(i saved him)
    I was Kind of Sad when he died But also relieved in the same time that he is out of his misery,and there will be no more fuck ups with him...
    As much of a shitbird he was i Kinda liked him...even though in my second playtrough i dropped him in the Stair Case

  • edited March 2014

    No he defently wasn't a bad guy. He was just going through a heck of a lot and couldn't take it, this led to him panicking and making a lot of mistakes because he wasn't thinking straight...still hate the guy though....he just fucked up too many times, wether or not he ment to it's just not forgiveable for me, he needed to die (i don't mean that in a horrible way, it's just he was making alot of mistakes and it was better for everyone - ben included - that he left this world before he hurt anyone else or himself for that matter - he's with his family now at-least) Plus he left Clem, i don't blame him for it,(as such) i suppose it was just a heat of the moment, panic thing but jesus christ he needed to grow some balls if it wasn't for Chuck that little girl would have died because of that pussy.
    Also i dropped him at the staircase, like i said i felt it was best for everyone (him included) that he left this earthly realm. I liked ben....to begin with, like i said he wasn't a bad guy (he reminds me of....well me, stupid at times, un-able to deal with stressful situations for prolonged periods, panics and does stupid stuff etc etc) But if i made that many fuck ups i would practically want someone to put me out of my misery.

  • edited March 2014

    I actually like Ben as a character (Still pissed at him for leaving Clementine in episode 4 though). He was very clumsy and as you said, quite guilty of messing up most of the time. However he was without a doubt a nice guy.

    My Lee were nice to him most of the time and I didn't need to think twice before saving him. I also thought it was adorable how touched he gets if you tell him Lee's secret in episode 3, friggin' adorable.

    But yeah, it is a shame that so many fans hates him so much simply cause he's not really... I guess "survivor" material? I get why people would be pissed with him, but I still get really surprised everytime I see how many actually decided to drop him from that tower, quite sad actually.

  • edited March 2014

    I think Ben was mistreated but did contribute to his own downfall by lying about the bandits and failure to protect Clem and the boat. Most characters on this forum have an avatar on this site except Ben feel so bad for him. Not a bad person but avoid at all costs

  • Killing him at the bell tower was just too cheap. It didn't seem like something a real humane person would do. Especially because it has to do with Clementine. Although, Clementine does show distaste to Ben later on through season two in the dialogue, she did see him as a friend before. The less death Clementine has to be traumatized with, the happier I am.

  • Im not sure, he did ask you to drop him after-all and at this point he has screwed a lot up for our little group. And at the time i was really angry with him. Despite that i do think in real life i probably wouldn't have dropped him, but who knows i can be a spiteful S.O.B when i want to be lol and it's the Apoc i don't think anyone would have the same personality they have now in a post apocalyptic world.

    _Juice_Box_ posted: »

    Killing him at the bell tower was just too cheap. It didn't seem like something a real humane person would do. Especially because

  • I think those who hate Ben are uncomfortable with what his character makes them think about, which is that there are people who simply would not function in a disaster. They would panic, they would screw up, they wouldn't have useful skills. And that doesn't make them bad people, but it doesn't make them heroes. But we don't want to think about them. We want to think about characters like Lee, like Molly, like Clementine--characters whow ere average people like us, but then became extraordinary survivors. We want to think we'd be like them. We don't want to imagine that we could end up like Ben, who starts out average and continues to be average. People who hate Ben maybe see a little bit of themselves in him, and are frightened by what that could mean.

  • Yeah, he did ask you to drop him but whenever you do he starts flipping out as if he expected you to pull him up... I still saved him either way though... it made Kenny's "death" scene more tragic, because he didn't have any shit with Christa (which is who he saves if you kill Ben) so it seemed like something Kenny would do but the fact that he saved Ben made him a better character, knowing that he would sacrifice himself for someone he truly hated.

    Im not sure, he did ask you to drop him after-all and at this point he has screwed a lot up for our little group. And at the time

  • Ben wasn't a bad guy, just not mature enough to make good decisions. I look back at how my friends and I were in high school and can't help but see a little bit of Ben there. Stealing supplies for the bandits was stupid and abandoning Clementine was cowardly, but also understandable. Naturally, we like to think that in a survival situation, we will be the ones who keep their cool and save the day. Fact is, that isn't how it works most of the time.

    Still, Ben really pissed me off in Episode 4. The walker incident was bad enough, but then I forgave him and asked him to look after Clementine no less than THREE FUCKING TIMES. And he failed to do so..each and every time. The fact that Clem still stood up for him after all that convinced me to save him in the bell tower. I'm glad I did, because Ben redeemed himself when he chewed out Kenny after we found the boat missing. That was when Ben became an adult in my opinion. Then he got impaled ten minutes later, poor bastard.

  • Shitbird

  • I don't know what happened. I was full of rage with the Carley and Kenny thing, and with Duck's death I couldn't take it anymore. But when the opportunity came, I don't know, just finish his life right there didn't feel like a right thing to do.

  • indeed

    Shitbird

  • Hes one of my favorite characters. Without him the group would still be at the motor inn or dead. He made the game interesting! Sure he caused some deaths but he was only trying to help and was in general a nice dude. I really wished he survived to S2 but sadly he died and did Kenny shoot him? I'm not sure why people try to kill Ben... Larry was understandable but Ben was a person. He screws stuff up sure but he is a survivor. He lived 3-4 episodes even though he screwed some things up.

    "Ben's my friend and we don't leave friends behind!"

  • I disagree, he's lucky I let him stick around. Not only is he too stupid to live, hes a complete pussy. The only time I felt bad for him was when he told Kenny to leave him alone, and even then I thought "Don't you dare talk to Kenny like that, you have no goddamn right." He gave me ATTITUDE for Christ sakes because I told him he needs to earn my trust back. Fuck that worthless little shitbird, he should be grateful I let him join our group in the first place. He brought nothing to the group, in fact playing a huge role in destroying us. I know he wasn't malicious, but he definitely deserves the hate IMO.

    As for the tower, I saved him. I hate him, and I reserve that right, but I would never just kill him. It doesn't run that deep, and he was already in my grasp. I guess I have sympathy for him, but I resent him too much to overlook it.

  • I think he and Christa clashed enough for it to have an impact, but I think it really helps if you get the determinant dialogue where Kenny suggests leaving Omid to die. His whole philosophy at this point in time is all about surviving for himself and those who help him and leaving others to their fates, so going out of his way to save her still showed a change.

    Additionally, just before this, he realized she was pregnant, so I like thinking about it in terms of not being willing to watch another mother and child die after what happened to his own family, and being of the viewpoint that family is all that matters anymore in this world.

    I agree, though, that his conflict with Ben is a lot more in your face, so his sacrifice has more weight, even if I think it wasn't conceived perfectly, as it's hard to view it as anything other than a suicide, even if it didn't turn out that way.,

    _Juice_Box_ posted: »

    Yeah, he did ask you to drop him but whenever you do he starts flipping out as if he expected you to pull him up... I still saved

  • True.

    damkylan posted: »

    I think he and Christa clashed enough for it to have an impact, but I think it really helps if you get the determinant dialogue wh

  • edited March 2014

    I actually like Ben, but I just thought that I'd point this out:

    Trevor Hoffman, the voice of Ben, said that he had "no sympathy for Ben", and he dropped Ben. I just find this hilarious, but I do agree with you.

  • Ben was a good kid. I hated him for a good while, but looking back he WAS just trying to help. He screwed up a lot though, and even though he may have had the best of intentions, he got a lot of people killed. I stopped hating him when I realized he hated himself as much as Kenny, and realized that he wanted to die to make up for everything he did. He was a coward and a fuck up, but that doesn't mean he still can't be a good person. I dropped him, yeah, but it had nothing to do with hate or revenge for everyone he'd gotten killed. I let go of all of that before I let go of him.

  • I think the reason most people hate Ben is because that's how most of us would really act.

    We all like to think we'd be Lee, or Clem, or any of the other characters who are capable of surviving... but, in reality, most of us are so soft, inexperienced, and dependent on others that we'd be pretty useless in a ZA.

    Ben also annoys people because most of us were friendly to him, gave him every chance to prove himself, and he was never able to make good on that effort. People are conditioned by movies, books, and games to think that every flawed character can eventually redeem themselves. Ben was the rare example where it doesn't work out (and most people aren't used to dealing with that in a work of fiction).

  • Guess they haven't seen lord voldemort or freeza
    Heck even Macbeth

    RedCombLP posted: »

    I think the reason most people hate Ben is because that's how most of us would really act. We all like to think we'd be Lee, or

  • That's actually kind of the reason I really like Ben.

    skoothz posted: »

    I think those who hate Ben are uncomfortable with what his character makes them think about, which is that there are people who si

  • Get a grip. There's a huge difference between those villains (who are the main antagonists of those works of fiction) and a supporting character like Ben. And Macbeth is the main protagonist of a TRAGEDY, a work of drama that demands that fate and the main character's "gifts" ultimately corrupt and destroy them somehow. Totally different things.

    Guess they haven't seen lord voldemort or freeza Heck even Macbeth

  • Helloooooooooooooo
    Could you really not see that I was joking
    Holy crap
    Dang

    RedCombLP posted: »

    Get a grip. There's a huge difference between those villains (who are the main antagonists of those works of fiction) and a suppor

  • obviously I didn't. Sorry xD

    Helloooooooooooooo Could you really not see that I was joking Holy crap Dang

  • Don't worry about man all is good brother

    RedCombLP posted: »

    obviously I didn't. Sorry xD

  • In hindsight he really wasn't a bad guy at all, just really incredibly stupid and lacking in common sense. But in the heat of it all (I played all of season 1 at once), I was so furious at him that I didn't regret dropping him. He got three of the most innocent members in our group killed (Katjaa, Duck, Carley), and even abandoned Clementine and then let her wander all the way through Savannah. That wasn't even what did it for me, the reason I hate Ben is because he straight up* lied* about everything. I questioned him up-front about the flashlight and the chalk, and he was so earnest in his lie that I believed him. Then it STILL came as a shock later because I was stupid enough to trust people based off of what they say.

    I think it speaks volumes that I dropped Ben in season 1 yet Nick is my favorite character in season 2. Yes, they both mess things up to the detriment of the group at large. Yet the main difference between the two is honesty. I would much rather have a fuck-up who makes mistakes and is honest and remorseful than a fuck-up who would readily lie to the group for his own good.

  • Young and Stupid, but think he's mosty a harmless.

  • ..............Ouch....

    Zyphon posted: »

    I actually like Ben, but I just thought that I'd point this out: Trevor Hoffman, the voice of Ben, said that he had "no sympathy for Ben", and he dropped Ben. I just find this hilarious, but I do agree with you.

  • They did it live on a twitch stream. The voice actors always do what you wouldn't expect.

    Like Trevor killing his own character, or Gavin Hammon(Kenny) wanting to leave Duck hanging in Episode 3.

    ravensep posted: »

    ..............Ouch....

  • I have a habit of making annoyingly elaborate answers, so I'll try to keep this short. While I am of the opinion that Ben was way mistreated, I'd just like to make some points clear.

    First, I can't fault Ben for doing anything wrong throughout all of episode 2. None of it was his fault, and he was definitely not to blame for anything. Episode three, however, is a different story. Now, I actually agree with Ben's decision to supply the bandits, but not why he did it. If Ben hadn't kept the Bandits at bay like that, they would probably have attacked the group much sooner than the time Kenny took to fix the RV. They'd have then been stranded with walkers around them. Then again, I think it was a honestly stupid idea to not tell the group about it. If he had done so, Lily wouldn't have flipped out so much. Once they group leaves, then him not owning up was also a stupid idea, but considering how much Lily was bitching, I can understand how he'd be scared. There's also the point where teenagers are prone to be in denial about their wrongdoings. I also can't in good conscience, blame him for Doug/Carley's death, because if we couldn't see it coming, neither could Ben. I'm pretty sure they'd be alive if he owned up, but I can't say he made an incorrect decision (in Doug's case, Lily was going to kill him anyway, the only reason Doug died was his heroic sacrifice to save Ben). He's pretty bummed and mad about C/D's death, and he looks so sad when he figures out what happened to Duck. That, again, isn't his conscious fault; he couldn't have know that would happen. Unfortunately, it get's way worse in Episode 4. I hate Ben for running away from Clementine, I can understand his fear, but that was just the 'what the fucking hell, Ben?' for me right there. Chuck dies during this, which was again, not his fault, but such fucking bullshit. This is worsened in Crawford, where he screws the group due to picking up the axe, which I'm pretty sure was aware of them putting there in the first place. That was almost inhumanly stupid, (bad writing, maybe). and I cannot believe it happened. Also, there's the case of him choosing one of the worst moments in history to tell Kenny about his doings.

    Still, he does try to help, like starting the train, and being Clem's friend, and when the decision came, I could never choose to drop him, no matter what. He was a sad, porr, unlucky kid, and I'd never kill someone for that. He gets Carley's gun for you later, if you save him.

    Long story short, I can't blame him for Duck, Doug's and Katjaa's death, I can arguably blame him for Carley's and Chuck's, and he didn't deserve the death he got. That was just heartbreaking for me. I was sad to see him go, no matter how much of a stupid kid he was. He was a good guy, but a fuckup. Kind of like a more cowardly Nick. I do think he was judged more harshly than he should have, but he still deserved some hate. Not death, though. None of them deserved death. The St. Johns did, the bandits did, and Crawford did, but not him.
    Dammt, it's still pretty long-winded.

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