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Questions regarding the episode 3 ending(spoilers)

posted by Frostbite_Snipes on - Viewed by 23.3K users

How strong is Mary? I haven't read the fables comics but....she seems to be smart and VERY strong. She broke Bigby's arm by stepping on him, while he was in werewolf form....

Also, is anyone disappointed that the only reason Bigby is still alive is because the crooked man for some reason decided to spare him? Without a good explanation, the story will be "Bigby defeated the bad guys because they let him live for no reason". I hate plot holes like that....

Other than that, it was a great episode though.

  • I guess they left Bigby alive because they didn't need him, they wanted Crane. But yeah there also could be a thing where they thought that Bigby would be too weak, but in the end he kicks everyone's ass... That would be cool, but kinda expected and not surprising...
    But I love how Bigby is strong and "bad" but he still has his weaknesses, such as Snow and the silver bullet or whatever it was AND of course his powers have limits :P
    And Mary seems like she's very strong but maybe she just kicked the arm the right way to get it broken...?

  • Never heard of mary in the comics.. but i haven't read that many.. Maybe she can be killed like dum and dee

    I agree with you it was stupid to let bigby live... but i agree with the theory that the crooked man may want to destroy and humiliate Bigby in every way possible before finishing him

  • Do you really think that one woman who scares people in the mirror is more powerful than The BIG bad WOLF? The only reason she broke his arm so easy was because Bigby was shot with a silver bullet and that made him weak.She is no match for him ;)

  • Bloody Mary is strong because she is a very well-known and talked about Fable, during sleepovers, that is.

  • I think the reason The Crooked Man let him live is because of his reputation.
    Why would you go around just killing people if you can provoke fear in them by being the guy that brings you to the state in which you are almost at your weakest. I personally think the Crooked man and Bloody Mary are awesome from what I've seen.

    Remember back in TWD, when you are with the stranger in the motel room?
    What kept him from shooting you in the face the whole time?
    If you think that the crooked man leaving keeping you alive is a plot hole, then look back at that stranger scene, and wonder about that >:U

    • Well, I never said that wasn't a plot hole, but this is not the Walking Dead forum. Though that one doesn't bother me nearly as much because Lee was about to die anyways and Clementine probably would have escaped from the Stranger regardless. Also, the Stranger had good reasons for keeping Lee alive, he wanted to tell Lee what happened to him and didn't see any way for Lee to fight back capably.

      The crooked man should know "Hm....Bigby is the sheriff of Fabletown and he's extremely strong, he has refused to give up so far even when Bloody Mary was about to kill him, maybe he will keep pursuing us." They should have easily known keeping Bigby alive and leaving him unattended would be extremely dangerous and stupid, and because of that, Bigby is going to be alive a long time and he's probably going to change the fate of Fabletown quite a lot from what it would have been had he died.

      So, villains leave Bigby alive for next to no reason. Because they think he's weak? He's the big bad wolf, who would think he's weak? Maybe because they want to uphold some kind of heroic image? They're doing some evil things and everyone knows it. Maybe to humiliate or sadden Bigby in some way for some reason, get some kind of revenge on him that doesn't involve killing him, at least not yet? Maybe. That's what I'm hoping for, it'd be a pretty good explanation.

      • Victory without risk isn't nearly as sweet or satisfying. Maybe he's playing with him.

        • Victory gained only because your enemies fucked up and not because you were good enough is much less satisfying, in my opinion.

          I think there would be enough risk if there was a reason for Mary to not chop Bigby's head off. But no, Telltale couldn't come up with a good reason I guess. Even Snow having a gun would have been a good enough reason for me. Speaking of which, Snow's been around a lot of the fights and she's putting her self in a lot of danger, whyyyy doesn't she have a gun?

  • I think The Crooked Man is behind the murders, and that they Bloody Mary let Bigby live to frame him in the future. Assuming you fell into temptation and killed Dum, it wouldn't be a stretch to use that as proof that Bigby is violent and killed the women. If not, the fact that he's closest to the investigation and would have the best chance to cover his tracks could also be used to turn the Fables against him.

  • Well she IS clearly strong, smart and psychotic, so I'll say she's a pretty good match for Bigby. I think she had her way with him mostly because of the silver bullet. Bigby is tainted with werewolf blood, so even if the bullet didn't killed him, it probably weakened him, like a poison (in fact, he couldn't even stand on his feet after he got shot ). This way, even if he was his werewolf form, he was probably weak as a normal mundy, and we know from a fact that most Fables (especially those coming from violent tales) are much stronger and more resilient than a normal human.

    Also it could depend on the fact Bigby got two full shotguns in the face moments earlier.

    I really would like to see Bigby and Woodsman team up and fight her to retrieve Woody's axe from her psychotic hands before she kills again

    • Speaking of the axe, how the fuck did she get it? Woody didn't mention it, so maybe they took it from him after he left the trip trap?

      Back on topic though, I hope in the future Bigby gets to fight Mary when he you know....hasn't been shot with 400 shotgun shells over the course of the day and hasn't been deprived of sleep for who knows how long. Maybe then like you said, he could still stand after getting shot with a silver bullet.

      • I have the theory that she retrieved it after Bigby and Woody's fight at the beginning of episode 1. At the end you see Bigby pull the axe out of the woodsman's head and throw it on the sidewalk. Later you see the woodsman ran away but the sidewalk isn't showed so you can't see the axe on the ground.

        Later, in Crane's office, if you ask the mirror you can see the Woodsman walking in an alley half drunk, without the axe.

        My guess is that the axe was left on the sidewalk after the fight and Bloody Mary (or one of the tweedles) came over and took it from the ground or maybe from Toad (who is known for stealing stuff from neighbours as we learn in episode 2)

        My other guess is that the Woodsman lost his axe in the period we can't see between the fight and the moment we see him trough the mirror, and Mary found it.

        Anyway, it's clear now that Bloody mary killed both Faith and Lily using the Woodsman's axe. Bigby himself said that to cut Faith's head of like that there would've needed something very sharp or something with magic attached to it. Woody's axe had both, how convenient.

        • If either of your theories are true, that means Mary might have been following Bigby for a while....probably, at least. Good find with the axe wound thing too, I guess the killer is found then. :D

          • If that's true, then why did she kill Faith and Lily, who was disguised as Snow? She has the means, and I do like your theory, but what is them motive?

            What could Bloody Mary, the Tweedle's and the Crooked Man possibly gain from killing these women?

            • Din't Dee say that Faith stole something from the Crooked Man? I think that's the reason. As for Lilly, I don't know.

            • This is a good question. I guess everything will be explained later. I guess both Faith and Lilly found out something they shouldn't know.

              I have this strange feeling the Crooked Man didn't send Mary to kill those two on his own decision. Maybe someone payed him to send Bloody Mary kill Faith and Lily (maybe Bluebeard, in order to get rid of Crane and become new ruler of Fabletown?) This is just my guess anyway.

            • As of right now, we know Georgie is affiliated with the Crooked Man(when Bigby comes to the pudding n pie in episode 3 crane calls for help and the crooked man comes) and it's his hookers that have been dying. The only big connections we have to the two murder victims is they both worked for Georgie and they were both....sort of were affiliated with Bigby(he was getting along great with Faith and Lilly was glamoured as Snow).

              I'd say either the crooked man is trying to hurt Bigby without physically hurting him by killing everyone he cares about then framing him for the murders, or they're killing people who owe the Crooked Man money and aren't paying them.

        • The woodsman would have certainly complained "Give me back my axe Bigby!"

          • Maybe not. The only times Bigby and the Woodsman have associated with each other since the fight where the Woodsman probably lost his axe were when the Woodsman was being interrogated(determinant), when he was under questioning for a murder and when he was too caught up with depression for various reasons to care about something like that at the moment(always, apparently).

      • Bigby probably still could have taken Mary down before Mary shot him, the problem was that Snow was there and Bigby was not paying attention to Mary. He was all like 'hey Snow I'm sorr...Owww! I've been shot again how original to this episode (not), oh yes and of course it is a silver bullet just dandy...'lol

        • That is a very good point. Maybe he could have taken her down otherwise....probably not though. As soon as the bullet hit him he stopped moving and dropped to the ground a few seconds later and Mary seemed completely ready for him regardless....and she seemed to be eagerly wanting him to attack her for some reason lol.

          • I said he could have neutralized Mary "before Mary shot him" but he was not paying attention.... How is it logical to respond, "probably not though. As soon as the bullet hit him he stopped moving"? I specifically wrote, he could have taken her down before that, but he got too fixated on Snow and was shot.

            • Because Mary could have just loaded the gun and shot him at any point during the fight instead of letting it play out. She seemed very ready for him throughout the whole fight. Granted he probably could have dodged, but he probably couldn't have actually gotten to her before she could load the gun and shoot him. Then again, I don't know how fast she could load it if she was in a hurry.

              It was stupid of her to even wait though.

              • That has nothing to do with what I wrote, I'm talking about Bigby neutralizing Mary, meaning (in self defense terms) in that situation Mary would be disarmed...If Bigby neutralizes the threat, it would be a contradiction to say-as you did-"probably not though. As soon as the bullet hit him he stopped moving." The thought experiment precludes Bigby getting shot, and assumes if he was not distracted how he could have disarmed Mary (before Bigby was shot). I reiterate part of my original post: "Bigby probably still could have taken Mary down before Mary shot him, the problem was that Snow was there and Bigby was not paying attention to Mary."

                • Yet if he played the fight perfectly, it's unfair to not say Mary would not have taken it seriously as well, and she could have shot him at any point in the fight if he tried to disarm her. I'm saying she would shoot him the second he tried to attack her and since the bullet made him stop moving immediately, he likely wouldn't have been able to counterattack. Though, like I already said, he might have been able to just dodge the bullet, so he might have been able to defeat Mary if he wasn't distracted. I just don't think he could get to her before she had a chance to shoot.

                  • First of all, seriousness has nothing to do with this, you are using it as a red-herring. Secondly there are lots of ways Bigby could have avoided being shot, especially since the weapon in question is a revolver. A revolver which Mary only loaded one bullet into, and it takes a very long time to reload such a gun.

                    • So you just completely agreed with me. "There are lots of ways he could have avoided being shot", that's what I've been saying. He probably couldn't get to her before she got a chance to shoot, but he could dodge the bullet.

                      • No, I'm not agreeing with your posts. Your posts were contradictory (I've already explained why)except for this one: "Though, like I already said, he might have been able to just dodge the bullet." I don't think Bigby could dodge a bullet, but he could use something or someone as a shield and use a self defense maneuver to disarm Mary, which would be a likely scenario. He could have disarmed her before the gun went off as well. Also, if you are assuming that Bigby can dodge a bullet, but not be quick enough to disarm Mary then you are being ridiculous. There are lots of ways for Bigby to avoid being shot yes, CQB/CQC being the one that I'm talking about.

                        • Well Bigby dodged a shotgun shell from a few feet away, I think he could have dodged the silver bullet too, especially with his heightened senses.

                          Mary was a good distance away from him when she shot him. Then again, he got to Dee and Dum pretty fast, but when you choose to attack one of them, they both keep shooting and hitting him, so I think if he tried to run up to Mary she could have just shot him.

                          I'm basing what I'm saying off things that happened in the fight. He was fast enough to dodge a bullet but not fast enough to get to the tweedles before being shot again.

                          • He did not actually dodge the shotgun pellets, buckshot moves at 1450 fps (feet per second) it looked more like Bigby judged where Dee was shooting and moved out of the way. Sort of how Batman can't dodge bullets, but he can read the shooters mussel movement (Bigby is a Wolf after all). He would not be able to just move out of the range of the gun if there are multiple guns and many shots going off, as we saw when Bigby caught all of those shots (after Dee shot the first blast which hit the garbage-can). If Bigby can really dodge buckshot moving at 1450 fps, he should have no problem disarming a gaunt emo chick with a revolver.

                            • I never said I thought it made sense, just that he seemed to dodge the bullet yet couldn't get to them before they had time to shoot him. But you're probably right, he was probably like "Oh they're about to shoot me".

                              • Yes, the way you put it does not make sense, it only makes sense if Bigby was reading mussel movement similar (as I pointed out) to contemporary Batman. It does not look like he actually dodged the pellets. as I said they move at an incredibly fast rate (he would have to be a character like the Flash or Superman to be able to dodge them). Even so my proposition stands, if Snow had not been a distraction to Bigby he could have disarmed Mary.

                                • He couldn't have disarmed Mary before she got a chance to shoot. When you're in the fight with the Tweedles and you have the chance to run up to them, they keep shooting you and manage to hit you a couple more times before you start owning them, so based on that, there's no reason to believe he would be able to get to Mary any faster. There's evidence he's either able to dodge some shots or tell when someone's about to shoot him, but no evidence that he can get to someone before they shoot.

                                  • Bigby was quite far from the Tweedles, meaning the brothers got more shots off as Bigby closed the gap. I'm not so worried about Bigby disarming before the one silver bullet goes off, my general proposition is: "if Snow had not been a distraction to Bigby he could have disarmed Mary." There is no reason for a disjunctive notion, that Bigby can "either dodge" or *read mussel movement, that is not an either or* situation. The evidence is to the contrary of Bigby dodging, if he can dodge Buckshot at 1450 fps then he should have had the Tweedles and Mary either disarmed and or dead in seconds. I've already explained this, the mussel movement explanation is the logically valid option. Your notion that there is no evidence showing that Bigby can get to someone before they shoot, is cherry picking. Also what is to say that he can't? He was distracted by Snow. The situation (Mary being disarmed before she shoots) can be true or false depending on if it plays out under the same conditions without Snow White as a distraction.

                                    • Granted he COULD possibly disarm her, since he was a bit closer to her than the tweedles, but he also might not have been able to. Mary was also much more focused than the Tweedles. You make a good point that he was closer to her though.

                                      Is it honestly a big deal whether he dodged the bullet or avoided it? Really? It's a video game about fairy tail creatures, it doesn't have to be perfectly realistic. Aside from that, I do agree with you there, I suppose avoiding it makes more sense.

                                      • It is not a big deal, it is simply illogical to say that he could dodge buckshot moving at 1450 fps and take so long to reach the Tweedles and Mary. The logical scenario (I repeat for the 3rd or 4th time) is the mussel movement option (which has happened with other comic charters, especially contemporary Batman), it is logically cogent. Focus is not an issue here, something that you cannot properly judge anyway.

                                        • If it's not a big deal, can we move on? The main point is he might not have been able to win the fight regardless. It was stacked against him in the first place, the silver bullet was cheap.

                                        • Bigby could dodge any bullet, it's even mentioned in the comics. Bigby ain't good at fighting anyone with a sword or a gun with a silver bullet. He reached Dee in one second after he was in his werewolf form unless you didn't notice that action was in slow motion. Bloody Mary was focused on Bigby, while Bigby wasn't focused on her is the breaker mostly. Bloody Mary was prepared to shoot Bigby, and every shot is a split second. From the distance Bigby was at, if he charged at Bloody Mary, she would know beforehand, therefore shooting Bigby with that one bullet would stop him.

                                          • Where is this mentioned in the comics? Dodging buckshot means Bigby would have to move faster than the speed of sound (speed of sound at FPS is 1116). Buckshot moves anywhere from 1300, to 1450 fps. Also, the discussion was about how Bigby could have possibly disarmed Mary if Snow was not there as a distraction. Yes, if Bigby had of blindly charged Mary, that would not have been very smart in terms of CQB.

                                          • Also, he did not do a very good job of dodging Goldilocks' silver bullet, and Bigby was in full wolf form then.

                                            • It was hunting bullets, and the best ones. Bigby is weak at close range combat against metal weapons. Everything is about distance for Bigby.

                                              • Are you serious or are you trolling? Buckshot is a hunting round, that moves at an incredibly fast rate. Show some evidence from the comics of Bigby dodging such rounds, you said that there is. All I have ever seen is Bigby get shot. If he can move faster than 1450fps, then he could have taken all three assailants out. It would not have taken that many steps for him to get to the Tweedles, and the Brothers would not have gotten so many shots off while he ran for them. That's part of the reason why I said, reading mussel movement is the more logical explanation.

                                                • Haha, some people never learn.

                                                • Bigby adjusts his speed to the situation and form. Even if Bigby read the mussel movement as you said, how come he's one foot away from the shot? Also I'm surprised you're still saying it took Bigby a long time to reach Dum when he got to him one second, maybe two after changing form depending on your actions. Either way Bigby wouldn't be able to disarm Bloody Mary, one she was too focused on him, two she had a silver bullet. Reading mussel movement would definitely not help and neither would attempting to dodge while charging, because Bloody Mary was reading Bigby's movements the entire time.

                                                  • Actually if you watch the scene closely you can see BM looking off in the distance, expecting Dee and Dum to finish Bigby off.

                                                  • The Tweddles got off multiple shots in that time,it takes far more than one second to fire at least two rounds (they fired more). If Bigby was moving between Mach 1 and 2 (faster than 1450fps to dodge buckshot), he would have taken all three assailants out, we would have seen no more than a fury blur. You seem to have no concept of how fast the speed of sound is.

                                                    I'm still waiting for your evidence from the comic books. Also, you must be Trolling, "Even if Bigby read the mussel movement as you said, how come he's one foot away from the shot." What do you think reading mussel movement entails? He perceives the position of the gun, and moves out of that position before the shot... It is more difficult to do with multiple Guns, and with multiple shots going off. Not to mention Bigby is seemingly not fast enough to break the sound barrier and actually dodge the pellets... If Bigby can "adjust his speed" why not go to Mach 5 and just dodge all of the fucking bulletts, and take out all of the assailants, instead of getting shot so many times?

                                                    • The Tweedles shot multiple times before Bigby was in his wolf-man form, but I'm talking about after. Bigby is fastest in full wolf form, sorry if I got a little carried away. He moved at the moment the shot was fired if you look more closely. If he was just moving out of the way he would be hit by at least a few shards, which he wasn't.

                                                      • No, they shot multiple time after as well, one even hit him.They shot as Bigby was running towards them in that werewolf form. If he was moving faster than the buckshot, he would have been moving between Mach 1 and 2. Bigby would have been a blur and he would have had no trouble with taking out all three people in just a second of time. That is not what happened, you know this so stop with the confirmation bias. I'm still waiting for your comic book evidence of Bigby dodging said rounds, also I'm waiting for you to show a sign of understanding how fast the speed of sound is.

                                                        • Dee only shot Bigby in the back when you have Dum at the wall for the first time, Dum only fired once, and was immediately being smashed, and that part was in slow motion which you obviously didn't notice. I already said that I could have exaggerated based on form. Also dodging is based on reflex speed, not running speed. I will stop when you agree that Bigby wouldn't disarm Bloody Mary.

                                                          • "No, they shot multiple time after as well, one even hit him.They shot as Bigby was running towards them in that werewolf form. If he was moving faster than the buckshot, he would have been moving between Mach 1 and 2. Bigby would have been a blur and he would have had no trouble with taking out all three people in just a second of time. That is not what happened, you know this so stop with the confirmation bias. I'm still waiting for your comic book evidence of Bigby dodging said rounds, also I'm waiting for you to show a sign of understanding how fast the speed of sound is."

                                                            • I'll make this simple. Could Bigby disarm Bloody Mary? If the answer is yes, than why are you disagreeing with the comments I posted. If the answer is no, than tell me why you thought he could have earlier, I'll also admit something.

                                                              • You really have not been paying attention to this discussion; I try to argue objectively. I do not think that Bigby can actually dodge buckshot pellets moving at supersonic speeds. There is no evidence showing this, you said there is in the comics and have yet to show such evidence. I have written my general proposition many times, "if Snow had not been a distraction to Bigby he could have disarmed Mary." This situation, can be true or false depending on if it plays out under the same conditions without Snow White as a distraction for Bigby.

                                                                • No he wouldn't be able to disarm Bloody Mary based on what you said after that. The only way he could have disarmed Bloody Mary is the one I said. Realistically I wanted you to notice that Bigby wouldn't disarm Bloody Mary if using logic, because the only logical way to disarm Bloody Mary for Bigby would be to charge at her, and the only way he would disarm her is if Snow distracted Bloody Mary (Bloody Mary would stop focusing on Bigby). You could have made me say I was joking about Bigby being faster in running speed than a shotgun's buckshot. Bigby also wouldn't fit in the alleyway in full wolf form and would get to all three in one second.

                                                                  • "If Snow had not been a distraction to Bigby he could have disarmed Mary. This situation, can be true or false depending on if it plays out under the same conditions without Snow White as a distraction for Bigby." You should read through this entire discussion. Then you should learn what a straw man fallacy is, so you won't do it again. My proposition is quite clear, it is a contingent situation, it can be true or false.

                                                                    • I read the entire discussion. I was joking about Bigby in wolf-man form being faster than a shotgun's buckshot. I'm not joking about Bigby in wolf form being too big for the alleyway. I hope we'll see Bigby fight Bloody Mary and blowing her revolver away, or a silver bullet.

                                                                  • Moreover, I'm done speaking with you on this subject. This conversation has gone on long enough. I might add, it went on without you giving that comic book evidence, or understanding the concept of "speed of sound."

          • mmm... what if Show White is VERY powerful? What if Bloody Mary is scared of Snow white? She dropped a line at the first episode that she could fend for herself...

            • Funny, but probably not. I haven't seen any talk of Snow doing anything abnormally powerful in the comics(I don't read them my self so I don't know for sure) and I don't think Telltale would stray far from the comics and change Snow's character into a badass like that. I'd welcome it, but I don't think they'd do it.

      • I remember when you ask the mirror to show you Woody, he's walking to the Pawn Shop that Jack works at and that CM owns. Maybe he pawned it off (while he was drunk)? Or he was going to get it back from someone who took it from him (Tweedles, BM, Jack, etc)

  • If you get her fable it says very little about her.

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