Questions regarding the episode 3 ending(spoilers)

How strong is Mary? I haven't read the fables comics but....she seems to be smart and VERY strong. She broke Bigby's arm by stepping on him, while he was in werewolf form....

Also, is anyone disappointed that the only reason Bigby is still alive is because the crooked man for some reason decided to spare him? Without a good explanation, the story will be "Bigby defeated the bad guys because they let him live for no reason". I hate plot holes like that....

Other than that, it was a great episode though.

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Comments

  • edited April 2014

    I guess they left Bigby alive because they didn't need him, they wanted Crane. But yeah there also could be a thing where they thought that Bigby would be too weak, but in the end he kicks everyone's ass... That would be cool, but kinda expected and not surprising...
    But I love how Bigby is strong and "bad" but he still has his weaknesses, such as Snow and the silver bullet or whatever it was AND of course his powers have limits :P
    And Mary seems like she's very strong but maybe she just kicked the arm the right way to get it broken...?

  • Never heard of mary in the comics.. but i haven't read that many.. Maybe she can be killed like dum and dee

    I agree with you it was stupid to let bigby live... but i agree with the theory that the crooked man may want to destroy and humiliate Bigby in every way possible before finishing him

  • edited April 2014

    Nope, she is not in the comics

    snootz posted: »

    Never heard of mary in the comics.. but i haven't read that many.. Maybe she can be killed like dum and dee I agree with you it

  • I can't wait to get to kill her then ^^

    sQOrPION posted: »

    Nope, she is not in the comics

  • edited April 2014

    Do you really think that one woman who scares people in the mirror is more powerful than The BIG bad WOLF? The only reason she broke his arm so easy was because Bigby was shot with a silver bullet and that made him weak.She is no match for him ;)

  • Bloody Mary is strong because she is a very well-known and talked about Fable, during sleepovers, that is.

  • Or has she just earned her reputation by being scary. I mean it can't be that hard to kill some scared teenagers by appearing to their sleepovers :P

    That_1_Guy posted: »

    Bloody Mary is strong because she is a very well-known and talked about Fable, during sleepovers, that is.

  • I think the reason The Crooked Man let him live is because of his reputation.
    Why would you go around just killing people if you can provoke fear in them by being the guy that brings you to the state in which you are almost at your weakest. I personally think the Crooked man and Bloody Mary are awesome from what I've seen.

    Remember back in TWD, when you are with the stranger in the motel room?
    What kept him from shooting you in the face the whole time?
    If you think that the crooked man leaving keeping you alive is a plot hole, then look back at that stranger scene, and wonder about that >:U

  • If she didnt had that pistol she would have died :) She has no super powers and Bigby is more known than her.

    That_1_Guy posted: »

    Bloody Mary is strong because she is a very well-known and talked about Fable, during sleepovers, that is.

  • I have a rule against harming women generally, if given a choice I probably won't kill her.

    ViTALiTY posted: »

    I can't wait to get to kill her then ^^

  • Erm....she doesn't 'scare' people. She murders them. And regardless of him being weakened from the bullet, he still had his wolfman body structure, it certainly would have taken extreme strength to just break his arm so easily. Heck, it'd take a lot of strength to break a REGULAR person's arm like that. Though you're probably right that she can't take on Bigby in a fistfight, but I don't knooow.

    Imsopretty posted: »

    Do you really think that one woman who scares people in the mirror is more powerful than The BIG bad WOLF? The only reason she broke his arm so easy was because Bigby was shot with a silver bullet and that made him weak.She is no match for him

  • Clearly she has some superhuman abilities. A normal human wouldn't have been able to break Bigby's arm like that. Though as of right now that's all we know of, abnormally strong. But she seemed to not know if the silver bullet would work on Bigby or not, she comments on it after using it on him, so they must have had a plan B. Maybe she's stronger than she lets on....

    Imsopretty posted: »

    If she didnt had that pistol she would have died She has no super powers and Bigby is more known than her.

  • edited April 2014

    Wow so you really thinks that Mary can kill him.Like I said she breaks his arm because he was weak and had a silver bullet in his body.He is one of the most famous Fables and he is pretty much immortal.Plus that wasnt his final form....

    Clearly she has some superhuman abilities. A normal human wouldn't have been able to break Bigby's arm like that. Though as of r

  • she is not a woman, she is a she-devil there is a difference :P

    I have a rule against harming women generally, if given a choice I probably won't kill her.

  • Well-known is well-known. She is probably strong because of that. (I don't know if people who are well-known are stronger, but that's what I've heard somewhere around this forum.)

    Or has she just earned her reputation by being scary. I mean it can't be that hard to kill some scared teenagers by appearing to their sleepovers :P

  • And that wasnt Bigby werewolf final form-that was about 5/18 from his true form.

    Erm....she doesn't 'scare' people. She murders them. And regardless of him being weakened from the bullet, he still had his wolf

  • I believe that's the same arm the doctor bandaged up earlier in the episode. Since he did not take it easy and from time to time he showed discomfort with the arm, she could have just broke due to its degenerative state.

  • Well, I never said that wasn't a plot hole, but this is not the Walking Dead forum. Though that one doesn't bother me nearly as much because Lee was about to die anyways and Clementine probably would have escaped from the Stranger regardless. Also, the Stranger had good reasons for keeping Lee alive, he wanted to tell Lee what happened to him and didn't see any way for Lee to fight back capably.

    The crooked man should know "Hm....Bigby is the sheriff of Fabletown and he's extremely strong, he has refused to give up so far even when Bloody Mary was about to kill him, maybe he will keep pursuing us." They should have easily known keeping Bigby alive and leaving him unattended would be extremely dangerous and stupid, and because of that, Bigby is going to be alive a long time and he's probably going to change the fate of Fabletown quite a lot from what it would have been had he died.

    So, villains leave Bigby alive for next to no reason. Because they think he's weak? He's the big bad wolf, who would think he's weak? Maybe because they want to uphold some kind of heroic image? They're doing some evil things and everyone knows it. Maybe to humiliate or sadden Bigby in some way for some reason, get some kind of revenge on him that doesn't involve killing him, at least not yet? Maybe. That's what I'm hoping for, it'd be a pretty good explanation.

    Meadow posted: »

    I think the reason The Crooked Man let him live is because of his reputation. Why would you go around just killing people if you

  • edited April 2014

    Erm....
    SPOOOOOOOOOOOOILER.

    Didn't Bigby die in the comics? He's far from immortal, there's other fables that can at the very least match him in a fight. Though, I never said I think she can kill him. Simply that she might be stronger than she lets on. Because like I said, even if he's weakened, he still has a bodily structure much stronger than a normal human in that form. Meaning someone with the strength of a normal human couldn't simply break his arm by stepping on it like that.

    Imsopretty posted: »

    Wow so you really thinks that Mary can kill him.Like I said she breaks his arm because he was weak and had a silver bullet in his body.He is one of the most famous Fables and he is pretty much immortal.Plus that wasnt his final form....

  • Remember she's probably using a glamour to look like more of a woman. I dread to think what she actually looks like

    I have a rule against harming women generally, if given a choice I probably won't kill her.

  • Actually, I think it was his left arm that she stepped on. Bigby's right arm was bandaged.

  • Apparently terrifying, based on her story. :<

    Undeadelvis posted: »

    Remember she's probably using a glamour to look like more of a woman. I dread to think what she actually looks like

  • To be more specific, it was probably more around 1/2 or 1/3.

    Imsopretty posted: »

    And that wasnt Bigby werewolf final form-that was about 5/18 from his true form.

  • I think The Crooked Man is behind the murders, and that they Bloody Mary let Bigby live to frame him in the future. Assuming you fell into temptation and killed Dum, it wouldn't be a stretch to use that as proof that Bigby is violent and killed the women. If not, the fact that he's closest to the investigation and would have the best chance to cover his tracks could also be used to turn the Fables against him.

  • edited April 2014

    That's a pretty good point, but then they could just kill Bigby and make their selves look like heroes using the same strategy.

    Catedratico posted: »

    I think The Crooked Man is behind the murders, and that they Bloody Mary let Bigby live to frame him in the future. Assuming you f

  • But hurting men is okay? Doublestandars :)

    I have a rule against harming women generally, if given a choice I probably won't kill her.

  • I never said it's okay, just it's easier for me. generally.

    Then again I don't think I'll have any problem beating the living shit out of her. Payback. But killing? No no. Then again I haven't killed anyone in TWAU so far, I prefer not killing people in games like that. Just....Mary has boobs, so she gets the deluxe freepass while guys get regular passes.

    But hurting men is okay? Doublestandars

  • Well she IS clearly strong, smart and psychotic, so I'll say she's a pretty good match for Bigby. I think she had her way with him mostly because of the silver bullet. Bigby is tainted with werewolf blood, so even if the bullet didn't killed him, it probably weakened him, like a poison (in fact, he couldn't even stand on his feet after he got shot ). This way, even if he was his werewolf form, he was probably weak as a normal mundy, and we know from a fact that most Fables (especially those coming from violent tales) are much stronger and more resilient than a normal human.

    Also it could depend on the fact Bigby got two full shotguns in the face moments earlier.

    I really would like to see Bigby and Woodsman team up and fight her to retrieve Woody's axe from her psychotic hands before she kills again

  • Speaking of the axe, how the fuck did she get it? Woody didn't mention it, so maybe they took it from him after he left the trip trap?

    Back on topic though, I hope in the future Bigby gets to fight Mary when he you know....hasn't been shot with 400 shotgun shells over the course of the day and hasn't been deprived of sleep for who knows how long. Maybe then like you said, he could still stand after getting shot with a silver bullet.

    Endrik posted: »

    Well she IS clearly strong, smart and psychotic, so I'll say she's a pretty good match for Bigby. I think she had her way with him

  • I have the theory that she retrieved it after Bigby and Woody's fight at the beginning of episode 1. At the end you see Bigby pull the axe out of the woodsman's head and throw it on the sidewalk. Later you see the woodsman ran away but the sidewalk isn't showed so you can't see the axe on the ground.

    Later, in Crane's office, if you ask the mirror you can see the Woodsman walking in an alley half drunk, without the axe.

    My guess is that the axe was left on the sidewalk after the fight and Bloody Mary (or one of the tweedles) came over and took it from the ground or maybe from Toad (who is known for stealing stuff from neighbours as we learn in episode 2)

    My other guess is that the Woodsman lost his axe in the period we can't see between the fight and the moment we see him trough the mirror, and Mary found it.

    Anyway, it's clear now that Bloody mary killed both Faith and Lily using the Woodsman's axe. Bigby himself said that to cut Faith's head of like that there would've needed something very sharp or something with magic attached to it. Woody's axe had both, how convenient.

    Speaking of the axe, how the fuck did she get it? Woody didn't mention it, so maybe they took it from him after he left the trip

  • Last issue that I read hinted that it's still possible for him to come back (admittedly, I'm not 100% caught up though). Though he's "dead" he's still basically a demigod.

    And, let's not forget just how much Brandish had to finagle things to even take Bigby down. His defeat was totally a cheap shot. There was a lot of very strong magic involved.

  • There's really not a huge difference between 5/18ths and 1/3.

    To be more specific, it was probably more around 1/2 or 1/3.

  • If you get her fable it says very little about her.

  • I am pretty sure that if they killed Bigby in episode 3 his father would avenge his death.

    Last issue that I read hinted that it's still possible for him to come back (admittedly, I'm not 100% caught up though). Though he

  • I don't think they're necessarily stronger, but they're definitely more resilient.

    That_1_Guy posted: »

    Well-known is well-known. She is probably strong because of that. (I don't know if people who are well-known are stronger, but that's what I've heard somewhere around this forum.)

  • edited April 2014

    This is what I wrote about on this situation in another thread:

    "I don't like her, she seems to be a pretentious psychopathic-child murderer (if we are to take into account her status as an urban legend and what said story entails). Someone mentioned that Mary did not 'blink' or show fear when Bigby changed, this might be because our new villain is a psychopath so narcissistic that she simply did not care when Bigby went all 'super wolf'.

    I don't like how Bigby did not adapt during the fight-such as using Dum as a shield etc-to try and take Mary out...Seems like Bigby was too focused on the Brothers, and then he became fixated on Snow. It is understandable that he would be worried about Snow, but he did not neutralize all of the threats and got a broken arm out of it..."

    As for Mary's strength in comparison to Bigby: Bigby is a Demigod whose powers keep growing and there is a prophesy in the comics that states he will die a number of times and keep coming back stronger... Also, I don't get all this Bloody Mary love, it's kind of creepy :| . People, don't confuse the category 'a character with strength' with the category 'a character who has dangerous psychopathy' lol.

  • Bigby probably still could have taken Mary down before Mary shot him, the problem was that Snow was there and Bigby was not paying attention to Mary. He was all like 'hey Snow I'm sorr...Owww! I've been shot again how original to this episode (not), oh yes and of course it is a silver bullet just dandy...'lol

    Speaking of the axe, how the fuck did she get it? Woody didn't mention it, so maybe they took it from him after he left the trip

  • edited April 2014

    Victory without risk isn't nearly as sweet or satisfying. Maybe he's playing with him.

    Well, I never said that wasn't a plot hole, but this is not the Walking Dead forum. Though that one doesn't bother me nearly as m

  • But it's so much more simple and easier to measure.

    Eliphas8 posted: »

    There's really not a huge difference between 5/18ths and 1/3.

  • Good point, but I don't know, his father seems like a dick from what I know.

    Imsopretty posted: »

    I am pretty sure that if they killed Bigby in episode 3 his father would avenge his death.

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