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The Big Bad Theory of what truly happened. UPDATED

posted by DaredevilGR on - last edited - Viewed by 2.4K users

Recently I decided to make a second playthrough of the game and came to some conclusions.

After fighting the Woodsman , you are given a choice to give Faith some money . At first I thought that this was a common non-story-related choice TT forced the player to make . Of course when I found out , it was pretty obvious that this wasn't the case . Anyway , I decided to go ahead and give Faith some money (58 dollars If I recall correctly) . Later , on episode 2 , where you first visit "Puddin n Pie" and open the secret vault , you will find the usual money in a roll but also the 58 dollars you gave Faith . Please hold on that thought for a momment as I want us first to take a look on the timeline of the events .

Fight Woody --> Give Faith money --> Return to appartment --> Fall asleep for some time --> Wake up to discover Faith's death --> Estimate the blood to be 1 hour old . --> Decide that the head was left as a message

This is the basic , fullproof , timeline . Now I will go ahead and add little bits of information . First , we know that Faith was not killed mysteriously on the road back to "Puddin and Pie" , as the 58 dollars are on the safe Vault . We know that Georgie has the key to the vault and is aware of its existence and possibly Vivian(from theories on the forums) knows the same . Its safe to assume that Georgie and/or Vivian knew about Faith and most likely she arrived back to the brothel before dying (unless Georgie or Vivian killed her on the road back) . So :

Fight Woody --> Give Faith money --> Return to the appartment/Faith returns to the brothel ...

So Faith's death should happen the time Bigby left Woody's place till one hour before Snow woke him up . Where could Faith be at that moment ? We know that the money Bigby gave her found their way in a secret vault in Pudding and Pie which implies that she arrived back to the brothel or that either Georgie and/or Vivian are the killers . Faith died near Pudding and Pie , that is certain but also after giving the money back to Vivian one way or the other .

Fight Woody --> Give Faith money --> Return to the appartment/Faith returns to the brothel ...
-->Faith Dies / You fall asleep ...

Going even further , I decided to take Woody into consideration . I watched a walkthrough on youtube that interogated him . Woody said he got mad because Lilly was to show up and not Faith . Furthermore , Lilly would give Woody a freebie sometimes when he had no money and this explains his reaction towards Faith ( he had no money that night ) . However , I noticed that for some reason the timing was not right . Gren says that Lilly is missing for a long time , however Woody had an appointment with Lilly the night before , in which Faith comes instead of Lilly . Woody was a regular and it was the first time that Lilly was unable to attend . When you visit PnP for the first time there is a letter from Lilly to Faith thanking her for backing her up and asking Faith to talk before she goes to the apartment . The client that they both saw was Woody and most likely , Lilly wanted to warn Faith that Woody would most likely have no money . But if that was the case , why Faith was on a fight with Woody if not for money ? She said "I am not leaving till I get what is mine" . But Woody has no money and Lilly knew that and ,furthermore, she was not willing to accept your money that much. What could Faith want ? Still figuring it out ? After it almost killed you twice ? Yep , his axe. Woody was in debt , had no money and he had to pay what he owed to Lilly which means he had to pay what he owed to the crooked man .He shouted at Faith that he IS the WOODSMAN , which could be a way to forcefully imply that the axe belongs to him and that it has no part in any negotiation . By the way , the crooked man has a pawn shop named "lucky pawn" . I guess a nice silver plated axe would look nice and fetch a high price .

So Faith is forced to meet the Sheriff next day and already failed to take Woody's axe . I doubt the killer would risk Faith meeting the sheriff even if his enchantements are that powerful ,since the witches of the 13th floor could possibly remove them . He is forced to kill Faith but also places her head right on Bigby's doorstep at a point where Bigby suspects nothing out of the ordinary . Its likely that the killer tried to get three birds with one stone , punishing Woody by framing him , warning Crane and throwing Bigby to a wrong lead as it is pretty obvious that Bigby would start sniffing around sooner or later , while also punishing Faith for failing and jeopardizing the whole thing .

The next morning , Bigby sees three people while walking to the business office . Gren , a ginger guy and the crooked man’s driver . Remember how Crane runs the place . Snow mentions that every common folk is ignored . This must be common knowledge judging from the way Gren talks to you and from the fact that there are only three people . Gren obviously has no choice to suffer the endless waiting to seek help for Lilly but what about the other two ? They definitely don’t seek audience . The driver most likely spies the area to report the reactions of the inhabitants after the killings for the crooked man . The ginger guy is a whole different story . Some believe that he might be the murderer . I am certain for one thing . Ginger guy is not affiliated to the crooked man . It would be dumb to put two of your own guys to spy on the exact same thing at the exact same position . My theory is that the ginger man is investigating for his own reason , hence his all appearances , and that he could become an asset in the 4th episode . He could be the one in sheep’s clothing .

Timeline ATM:

Faith is sent to take Woody's Axe --> Bigby fights Woody --> Give(or not) Faith money --> Return to appartment/Faith returns to the brothel --> Fall asleep for some time/Faith Dies --> Wake up to discover Faith's death --> Estimate the blood to be 1 hour old . --> Decide that the head is left there as a message --> See Gren/Ginger Guy/CM's Driver on your way to the office

Thats enough of theory crafting for one day . I will continue later when I have more time to spare . If you are interested , please share opinions and point out where you agree or disagree

------------------------------------------------------END OF PART 1-----------------------------------------------------

Allright , we continue our theory crafting right where we last stopped .

Bigby was entering the business office , only to see Snow telling Crane about the murder . In one of the choices , you can mention him that the deceased was a prostitute in which he acts surprised and afraid just before he covers it up . That essentially means that Crane was not aware of Faith’s death and he seems to realize that it was a message to him . Right now , I can only think of three people that the message was intended to . Bigby , Crane and Ginger man . Bigby just for the sake of telling him “Back off” which is kind of a dumb thing really , because Bigby was not into anything yet and even if they killed Faith for being forced to speak to him later that night , I think that they would hide both her body and head rather than forcing Bigby to start an investigation . I think we can rule him out pretty safely . Crane is the most plausible case . Faith must have been one of his Snow look-alikes .Faith story connects with Germany(snow describing her name) and the book Crane has is written in German . The wildcard however is the Ginger man . If you remember my first part of the theory , Ginger man is not working for the crooked man . He could owe him money perhaps or even work against him . Now , why would CM sent faith’s head to that Ginger guy . When you first leave your apartment with Snow , in the middle of the night , you come across GM(ginger man) . Only by the fact that no suspicion was aroused there means that GM is living there . But in episode 3 , we also see someone named “The Butcher” being a resident of the Woodlands . This might be a longshot , but I would not be surprised to discover GM being the Butcher . Now , for the reasons the head was sent there or even placed there by the GM are only guesses (yet) .What really doesn’t make sense is that Crane was paying the CM . He had reduced the rate of payments but never ceased . I doubt CM would kill a prostitute just for that . On the other hand , we can see a box being delivered to Aunty Greenleaf by the Butcher . Since Aunty was making glamours its possible The Butcher using Faith to strike down CM IF (and I capitalize that) “The Butcher” is an enemy of the CM . Faith stole a photo from the CM , says Dee after being interrogated . I doubt she stole it for herself , but if not , for who ? There must be an other player in the game , one of which we are not aware of yet . If that player is the GM or the Butcher (if they are the same it makes more sense) , I am not really sure .

After Crane finishes his rant , Snow calls Vivian while Bigby checks the magic mirror . Just a little side note here . In my 2nd playthrough , I went to Crane’s apartment first and Jack told me that CM has a pawn shop named the lucky pawn . Well , it turns out that when you ask to see the Woodsman on the mirror he walks in a street near a shop . From the sign you can clearly see the last letters of the shop’s name . Yep , you can see half an “A” and “WN” . The Woodsman was going straight to the Lucky Pawn with his axe obviously . Now , this fact might destroy my theory about Faith wanting the axe for the CM since I also remembered that Faith stole a picture from him . But Faith was also working for the CM as its obvious that the “Pudding and Pie” is his . When you bust in , in episode 3 , Georgie calls someone telling him “We have a problem” . Soon after , Bloody Mary and the CM show up . So what is exactly going on ? Well , I had suspicions of Faith’s allegiance the moment I saw her coat at Toad’s place . Then I remembered her saying “Way to start the night” which means that she had no other job before . On the other hand , she tells Bigby that she will go drop everything she got back to the club . But since she got nothing from the Woodsman and possibly yourself , and obviously she had done nothing before that , what could she possibly give Georgie . She lied there yes , but still the money you gave her(if) still end up in Georgie’s safe

Just by looking at the coat , I asked myself why would a hooker wear it . Its obviously not elegant and won’t make the client happier to see a prostitute in a donkey suit . It also violates Fabletown’s laws of concealing their true nature from the mandies as wearing it would cause suspicion or at least negative feedback . Well , since she did not wear it as an elegant outfit and its neither a sneak suit , why would she wear that thing . Going back to her story , we see her using it to escape her father . My bet is that she wanted to escape again . The donkey hide must be magical in a way that it would help her .She also has a letter inside to prince Laurence that tells him that she is sorry . But since I already saw letters like this on Laurence apartment right before she left him to work as a prostitute , I can only believe that this was her farewell-for-a-long-time letter that meant that she was getting away to save her life . I explained before how I believe that there is another player that we are not aware of . Counting all of the above , I came up with some theories .

Woody owns crooked man . As he said Bigby , he has no money so he could be forced to ask CM for a favor . Woody might be reluctant to give away his axe first due to being drunk and all or a bit too proud , but after Bigby came into play , he came around and went to the lucky pawn .Woody told Bigby at some point “Tired fighting , blah blah blah”

Faith works at “Pudding And Pie” as a prostitute . She is under the spells and enhancements of CM but she gets sick of it and wants a way out . She opts to find someone who can help her . But since Fabletown’s authorities are known for being shit helping ordinary folk , she cannot seek their help . She finds an enemy of her enemy . Possibly the Butcher , possibly the GM or someone else She works for them so she can break free.

Someone (Butcher/Ginger Man/other) want the demise of the crooked man . They use Faith for this purpose , where she is sent off to Woody’s place to recover the axe for the CM ,when in fact she wants to take it for the unknown player . He sent packages to Aunty Greenleaf which more likely contain samples of Fables his “agents” to be glamoured as .

Final part , the actual plan . Faith knew who Woody was . At first , she wanted the axe . But since Woody was not giving it away , she started making a fuss about it . A drunk Woody broke everything up and Bigby was called . He intervened but at that point , taking the axe was not possible (Bigby would not allow her to take it) . She left her coat as she could not hope to escape both CM and the other “player” by running away and gave away a lot of information to Bigby without hesitation . Why would she do that if she was afraid of the CM . But since she already worked against him in secret she had no problem doing that . She tells him EVERYTHING she can that will lead him to the CM but nothing about the Butcher or someone else . Furthermore she tells Bigby that she will visit him later that night . Not even in the morning . She wants to tighten the time schedule . In that case if she is killed , Bigby would know something is wrong . She returns to pudding and pie where she tells them all about the incident and I believe that they command her not to spoil anything on Bigby . From that point Faith could either be killed by orders of the CM or even stage her own death by using Butcher’s glamours in order to provoke Bigby into the chaos . Remember that whatever she spoiled him is linked with the CM . Generally speaking I think if Faith was indeed killed by the CM , it would be a huge mistake since she is already under heavy spell protection .
All in all , I believe Faith is the one in sheep’s clothing and that’s who we might see on Episode 4 or Episode 5 . Yes , I believe that there is a possibility that Faith is alive and that since no glamour tube was opened after discovering “Faith’s” head , that head could belong to anyone .

------------------------------------------------------END OF PART 2-----------------------------------------------------

  • If his his whole "I'm The Woodsman, you whore" thing was just about the axe rightfully belonging to him, he wouldn't have completed it by retelling the tale about cutting Bigby up and "filling his belly full of stones". Plus, Faith could have kept the axe after splitting open Woddy's skull, instead of leaving it on the sidewalk.
    But I agree that maybe Faith was there for more than just her money, and may have faked it when Bigby showed up. And just leaving her donkeyskin coat has to mean something...

  • Wow! You've enlightened me! However B.C.W is affiliated with T.C.M in my opinion.

  • This isn't my theory....

  • Faith could have died before getting back to the club. Someone could have killed her and taken the money back. Namely that suspicious blond chick.

    • Y I mention that but it would be to easy to find the killer and why would they kill her out in the open ? It makes no sense . If they killed her in the club , nobody could say anything

  • This has been a great read, Great knowing we are kinda going down the same route a lot of things you point out I was speculating on, I also believe Faith knew she was going to be killed, haven't worked out the kinks yet but I think about how she subtlety tries to get Bigby to notice the ribbon "Hey, you like my ribbon?" she wanted to spill everything right there I bet,

    Now this is where things get a bit snowy in my notebook, but possibly someone was viewing her and noticed that little stunt and add that with her willingness to go to the sheriff..whoever it is comes to the conclusion that she had to die...maybe there is some kind of fail safe for the ribbons maybe if you take it off you will get decapitated, Stay with me here What if Faith snatches the ribbon off ties her ring to it and swallows it all hoping whoever finds her (More than likely the sheriff cause the murder would be public and he would be the one to investigate) who finds her can follow the bread crumbs back to finding her coat and giving the letter too Lawerence (Why write a letter when you can simply go home? unless you know you weren't going home)

    but that's just me yammering on, I like where you are going so I can't wait to see you're further theories on all this, I'm about to start my Renegade run tonight lol

  • Awesome! Good job.

  • Bump !

    Part 2 of the theory is up . Read and write down your opinions :)

    Part 3 might come after some time , I dunno yet :(

  • Quite an amazing theory I must say. Hmm what relevance would an old donkey skin be to this murders? Who is The Butcher? Is Blue Beard evil and siding with TCM? Who is the fable that tossed Lily from the bridge?Curiouser and curiouser.

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