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The hypocrisy in this forum is over 9000

posted by GuiltyKingOumaShu on - Viewed by 10.8K users
When people point out Clem became less likable because some of her lines are way too cold and don't fit her character, they get a shit ton of people telling them they suck and that badass clem is best Clem.

Then the achievements for episode 3 get leaked and people assume Clem gets a beating. What's the first thing people do? Go on and cry about poor little Clemmy getting hurt. And I am all like: "U wot m8?"

Now TTG (finally) blesses us with a trailer and the forum is full of Troy hate, when he has done NOTHING so far and we still know next to nothing of him. We haven't even heard him talk yet. He could have the best written backstory in the whole history of TWD and you guys already condemned him because he gave Clem a boo-boo? What would Winston say if he saw you guys. Oh right.

"Jesus, are you fucking kidding me!?"

I seriously hope some of the hardcore Clem fans never become parents, because the way they are probably going to spoil their own kid will totally lead to it becoming a COARL or worse. Sorry to say this, but I can't bear this hypocrisy anymore.

If you want Clem to be a badass, then accept the fact that she will get beat up and get shit from other character. A lot. Because badasses aren't nice and invoke the hostility of other characters. Badassery usually leads to uncomfortable situations for the badass, and a badass usually can handle those. That's what actually defines a badass. If you can't handle that, then stop worshiping badass Clem. Problem's solved.
  • People need to learn that the gun didn't fucking hurt Clem. Clem broke the gun with her face like a true badass.
  • I agree but watch out for the Troy haters they'll probably say "HOW can you defend Troy" crap like that
  • I basically agreed with everything you just said, and as a warning, don't go to any links that the guy above me posts.

    Edit: I mean the guy above the guy above me. We posted at the same time apparently.

    Just to be clear, the guy called "SilenceIsAnOption" with Slenderman as his profile pic.
  • Thank you so much for this.
  • I totally agree, GuiltyKing. I'm personally not a fan of badass or sassy Clem, over the course of Season 2 I've used only about two (or three) sassy lines. I have a savegame where I play Clementine as nice as possible, no sassyness (or badassery, gods forbid).

    As for Troy, stop being so mad! When Clem tried to help Alvin (I surrendered in my "nice" playthrough), she got hit in stomach area with a pistol. Why there's no outrage for that? We don't know the context of the scene, so let's not jump to any conclusions.
    • People did react angrily towards Carver's action of hitting Clementine, but as it was determinant, a lot of people probably didn't see that option. Unlike Troy's action in the trailer which was thrown right at us, and thus, more possibility of widespread anger.

      Also... fuck context. Seriously. This "context" talk is really starting to annoy me. The context *does not matter* when it comes to something like ramming a gun into a child's face. He may turn out to be an interesting guy, he may have "panicked" or some dumb crap, but in the end, he *rammed a gun into a child's face*. There is no good, justified reason why someone would do that. Plain and simple.

      I gotta say, though, I'm rather surprised and amused that Troy is getting this level of hate. Usually, with this fandom, the character has to be a female to get this level of hate, even if the female character in question is nowhere near as bad as male characters that get tons of fans and praise from the fandom, including Nate and Carver. Compare the defending you see for those assholes to people wishing death on Bonnie because she was working under the command of another person to scope out our group, and a few people hating on Tavia ***for no reason***. And those are just the bizarre ones. There's plenty more to go around.

      It's a change of pace, if nothing else.
      • "[...]he *rammed a gun into a child's face*. There is no good, justified reason why someone would do that. Plain and simple."

        Lizzy would like to have a word with you. Does "Look at the flowers" ring a bell?

        Zombie apocalypse, fellas. There are no kids anymore. There is this whole speech of Chuck about people being alive and all. Shit fits quite well.
        • Actually, no, that still wouldn't be justifiable. See, Lizzie was not evil. She was sick in the head, and was killed because she was a danger and there was no help for her, not out of some desire for revenge or because she deserved it. So yeah, ramming a gun into her face for that would be pretty goddamned despicable. So now you may be asking if it would be okay for a kid who really was evil or at the very least, really enjoyed the prospect of hurting people? A future serial killer. The answer is no, but that's more of a personal thing.

          Allow me to slightly edit what I said: "There is no good justifiable reason why someone would ram a gun into a child's face, unless the child is running at you with a fucking chainsaw with full desire to kill you, your family, and your kitten." As that is clearly not the case with Clementine, Lizzie, or any other sick child with sociopathic tendencies who is not an immediate threat to one's health, my comment still stands. Hitting a child who's trying to kill you (which is just a nightmare inducing thought) is a matter of self-defense. Hitting a child who is not and is, in this case, running away and can easily be restrained, is a matter of being a douchebag.

          Also, don't forget that Chuck said this right after he said that, "And seeing another *little girl* go..." Hmm, interesting Chuck. Looks like some people *can* be "little" when it suits you, you old drunk bastard.

          I kid (well, a little), but I think it's worth pointing out that that level of pragmatism cannot be taken 100% seriously. It's just silly. It makes sense, sure, but so does killing the weak to ensure the strong survive like Crawford did, and a whole bunch of other horrible shit people have done. That's the problem with cold, emotionless logic without an ounce of sentimentality. It's just as bad as pure emotion with no thought or logic. There's a reason why Walking Dead characters have always tried to find a middle ground between the two. Too far one way, you lose your humanity... too far the other way, you lose your life. Neither is a particularly good thing.
          • Yes, Lizzy was killed because she was a danger to the group. From Troy's point of view, though, Clem may actually be the same. And hey, he at least didn't kill her, right? Good guy Troy.

            Don't get me wrong, I am not a Troy fan, but everyone who says "context isn't important" is just downright wrong. Context ALLWAYS matters. And while I am pretty sure that Troy had little to no reason to be so violent, I will still defend him until we know what his motives were, simply because we can't judge without seeing the full picture.
      • Justifications-schmustifications, as long as I'm rich...

        Fine, fine, jokes aside. While I certainly can't condone Troy's actions, I can't really say that Clementine at this point of story is harmless. The action was maybe violent and unjustified, but what if it didn't happen? What if Clementine managed to wound or even kill someone from Carver's camp. I'm talking about a lot of "ifs", but there is a potential line from Clem in Episode 2: "I'd shoot me". Clementine might have done the same if the roles were reversed.

        As for badasses and assholes getting praised while female characters are getting hated, I guess it has something to do with the players demographic. Most of the gamers (yes, female gamers, most) are male. Many of them seem to admire badass or even outright assholes. They have a degree of respect (and admiration) for people who can act tough, ruthless, sometimes crazy, because that makes them look cool.

        I don't know a thing about Bonnie or Tavia (in context of working with Carver), we can't just judge them yet. They are hated undeservedly.
        • Fair enough, though again, just from the way the scene is presented, and there's really no other way to look at it, Clem could have been restrained. Maybe it's an early version of a scene and Clem is actually holding a goddamn chainsaw in the real scene, lol. :P We'll have to wait and see.

          Oh, I'm sure it's largely demographics. But that's kind of the problem right there. It implies that it's not the shaping of the product, it's just our messed up society. Although, there also exist female Nate fans who defend him all the time and... I just don't know. I really don't... lol.

          Still, props to you for holding the same view on Troy that you do on Bonnie and Tavia. It's good to see a fair view. :)
          • Thank you. It's nice to have a serious debate, I mostly joke around, and it's got to be serious once in a while.

            At first I was actually frustated (not at Tavia, I kinda expected her to be there), when I first saw these two scenes - Bonnie coming coming back with an AK and Troy using his AK to strike Clementine down. But, soon afterwards, I calmed down and realized that I can't say anything yet - Bonnie seems a good person, and Troy... is a fucking mute! We didn't even get a glimpse of his personality, but Telltale already makes us hate him. They do have a shock-value fetish.
          • Restrained? You mean, like Winston did? You know, the guy who almost got his thumb ripped off by this "little girl" we're talking about? Or like the stranger, whose fatal mistake proved to be turning his back on Clem? Plus, from the looks of it, it seemed like she was running to possibly help someone/grab something. Hitting someone who does this is a reflex.
            • You'll notice that when Winston stopped "restraining" her with the failed bear hug and pinned her down after that, Clem was pretty defenseless. She was holding him off, but he was clearly overpowering her. It was only because a walker showed up that she got out of that.

              So yes, "like Winston did", only not that first example.

              I don't buy that this is reflex. It looks calculated to me. Troy sees her coming, and drives the gun into her face. His body language doesn't read like that of shock or surprise which would cause such a reflex. But then, that's just my interpretation. Neither of us can say for sure what's going on in that scene, but we're both going to hold to our views nevertheless, and my view is that Troy is a douchebag and for all we know, probably took out some anger on her, as we see he looks pretty pissed off at one point when he's dragging her by the arm to Kenny and shoving her at him. Could her not just lead her there at gun point and tell her to go to her people? Based on pure imagery, the guy is an asshole and a half. Can that sentiment change? Maybe, but there'd have to be a pretty big change.

              My argument has never been that Clementine is a defenseless little girl, but zombie apocalypse or not, excessive force, and against children by an adult, no less, is an act of an asshole. I'm not one of the folks calling for the dude's death for this, but I scoff at the implicit defending as well. Again, maybe that'll change, but it'll take a lot to convince me that this dude isn't dirt.
  • "We know nothing about Troy." Yeah. Um. That's why it's so easy for people to hate him. We know nothing about him and therefore have no reason to sympathize.

    I won't deny that he could shape up to be an interesting and complex character, but once you hit a little girl, you stand no chance of getting sympathy from me.
    • I agree with you.

      its not like clem was running towards him with a butcher knife about to stab him. she was running PAST him.

      all he needed to do was push her aside so she falls to the ground and that's that. I didn't see the need for him to do what he did.
      not under the circumstances he was in.
  • Sometimes people are right, sometimes people are wrong, sometimes they are not right or wrong because it is their opinion but there is some stuff wrong with the forum.
  • The funny thing is, hitting a child like that, no matter what the context is a pretty damn awful thing to do but killing an innocent person in cold blood like many other characters have is way worse.
    • If a child ran to grab a gun to kill you would you hit the child?
      • a, it depends on the circumstances, like I said in a comment above:

        "its not like clem was running towards him with a butcher knife about to stab him. she was running PAST him.

        all he needed to do was push her aside so she falls to the ground and that's that. I didn't see the need for him to do what he did.
        not under the circumstances he was in"
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