People finally starting to wake up and accept that working on 4 games at once is hurting TWDSeason2?

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  • Except Telltale is not working on four games at once. They said themselves they have a very small number of people working on Borderlands and Game of Thrones. It's more accurate to say they're working on two and a half games right now.
  • I have nothing to add to the excellent posts above me, so I'm here only to say that I agree. I have talked about some of this things in my time, and I would like to add more to this discussion, but yesterday left me... drained.
  • bump ttg writer staff needs to see this.
  • edited May 2014
    I don't agree at all. I think it was the best episode to date together with the season 1 finale.

    Who cares about hubs when the story is this good? I wouldn't mind a few more hubs, but tbh it's no deal breaker at all for me.
    I'm glad they didn't drag the Carver thing out too long, I'm glad they gave us the closure and that we're moving on. I think they did a fantastic job in making him a great, scary villain.

    I don't care too much about 400 days tbh, the story didn't even get close to being as good as s1 or s2, and I do believe we might see the other characters that didn't go with Tavia in future episodes and possibly even interact with them.

    The little details not being explained is a good thing imo, would break immersion and not make sense. "Oh hey guys we just got taken to prison, put to work, got the shit beaten out of all of us, but let's take a moment to talk about the whole Alvin-George situation instead of trying to save our asses"...
    Also if I'm not mistaken the whole don't trust the cabin group idea was implanted by Carver...
    We also have two whole episodes to explore the whole Kenny vs Luke thing.
  • Not to be rude or discredit anyone's opinion, but it seems the primary criticism I've seen isn't involving writing, rushing, or plot, but pure bitching about the 400 Days DLC characters. People are angry they didn't play a bigger role. Yeah, it's valid criticism, but when you claim the entire game is made horrendously awful and order Telltale to cancel other projects -solely- because of the 400 Days character issue, then it's nothing more than whining and complaining. Many people believed this episode to be absolutely fantastic, myself included, and while I strongly agreed with you, OP, back when TWAU Episode 2 came out, I've since believed Telltale may very well be able to handle al the games. I still think taking it slower would be good, but I don't think TWDS2 is failing because of it, and the absence of major roles for the 400 Days characters does not at all, in any shape, way, form, or fashion, prove the episode was terrible or of low-quality. I felt the pace was good, and though some things were a little odd (how said 400 Days chars only had 1-2 lines each, how everyone kept expecting Clementine to do the dangerous work, etc.), I really did love the episode, and I'm pretty sure it's going to get better in Episode 4. Telltale knows what they're doing. They have the episodes planned out. They've had this season planned out for almost two years now. Have a little more faith, and don't be condemning of it because DLC characters weren't the main focus of the game.
  • Totally agree. TWD S1 still remains to be the best of telltale. TWAU ep1 was promising, but the later episodes followed the same route of rushed and no exploration, QTE heavy gameplay.
  • yeah telltale quit the other series and concéntrate in the walking dead season 2 the more important.
  • The way I see it is that each individual episode of season 2 has been great, I have no complaints, but the season itself so far as a whole is not so great, I don't feel like we're getting an idea of where the story is going and I don't know it just doesn't feel anywhere near as good as Season 1 but come to think of it, it was the last 2 episodes of season 1 that really made it great imo, so there's still time for it all to come together and make sense.
  • > Who cares about hubs when the story is this good?

    Many people, apparently. *Sigh* Here I go... For starters, it offers some open gameplay, much needed character interaction/ some development for them, lets you slow down a little, yadda, yadda. I'm done explaining this shit; I did for the last two months and I'm tired by now. Besides, there is an important answer to your question. "Who cares about hubs?" The key answer that renders all of this moot is: "Not Telltale".

    "The story is this good" Nah, Carver and his camp were underused as hell. Plus, the characters have started to die like flies and I still find it hard to care. I do not know these people.

    >I'm glad they didn't drag the Carver thing out too long,

    Yeah, me too, because he was a poor villain in the long run. "A one-dimensional psycho who gets to thwart the group at each turn, making your choices here bloody worthless." He was there for that and for players to achieve catharsis/ develop Clem and Kenny to a certain degree.

    > The little details not being explained is a good thing imo, would break immersion and not make sense. "Oh hey guys we just got taken to prison, put to work, got the shit beaten out of all of us, but let's take a moment to talk about the whole Alvin-George situation instead of trying to save our asses"...

    The little details made last season. How is revealing apparently major background information relevant to the plot be immersion breaking? Besides, I would like to simply *talk* to someone at this point, prisoners or not.

    > We also have two whole episodes to explore the whole Kenny vs Luke thing.

    How exciting. It's Lilly come again as a nicer man. And Kenny... Kenny never changes. (Fallout reference, BTW)
    Baloe posted: »

    I don't agree at all. I think it was the best episode to date together with the season 1 finale. Who cares about hubs when th

  • edited May 2014
    @puzzlebox I hope you take notice of this and forward it to the developers.

    This is clearly a problem.
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited May 2014
    I can relate to a lot of the narrative-argumentative stuff in the original post, but the blame shifting parts really don't hit their mark.

    First, the thread title. Telltale is not "working on four games at once". Depending on your definition of "to work on" in this context, Telltale presently either works at just two titles or, wait for it, SEVERAL DOZEN. Right now, Tales of the Borderlands and Game of Thrones are just about in the same state as The Wolf among Us was during the run of The Walking Dead Season 1. And although there were a lot of complaints back then, the writing was mostly thought of as superb. The level of influence the vast and mostly classified franchise pipeline has over the two presently running Seasons is the very same it was years and years ago. I won't say that influence is nonexistent, but I will say that nothing has changed in the way Telltale works here. The comparison to Season 1 fails to be relevant, in my opinion.

    Second, our beloved Telltale deserters have nothing to do with it. Losing Jake and Sean was absolutely sad for Telltale, but it could not have been any other way. As they have repeatedly stated, they HAVE worked on Season 2 before they left, so their shaping hands should still be visible. The central thing to grasp here, however, is that their influence on Season 1 was not just story related, but very very much game mechanic related. These mechanics have shaped a new kind of Telltale game - the one Kevin has named the "episodic story game", so Jake and Sean's legacy isn't just alive here, their brain child is very actively spawning new games, all of them with their fingerprints on them. I can't speak for their motivations, but judging from the game they're presently making, they would really like to make their own story based franchise instead of lending one from elsewhere. With that ambition, it might have been a grave mistake to stay with Telltale.

    Third, "the constant switch of writers, directors and designers" was always Telltale's way of doing things. Relying on different creatives with the same function isn't exactly a Telltale exclusive thing; TV series have done the very same thing for decades (with mixed results, some of them fantastic).

    Fourth, releasing game series concurrently was always Telltale's goal right from the start. They tried that with TWDs2 and TWaU, and we can all agree that the attempt did in fact fail. I do hope they won't attempt the very same thing right again with TftB and GoT, because I think they're just_not_ready_yet. But when there actually is a Season 3, in 2016 or beyond, who knows? (Yes, I know 2016 freaks you guys out as a vague projection for Season 3, but do the episode math). They might just be ready then.
  • edited May 2014
    My major problem is the brevity of the episodes. I haven't minded the writing like others seem to, but it feels undermined by how quick each episode is now. In season one, each episode felt like a great, self-contained story. Its shortest, Episode 5, at least had a great story-based reason for it. This year, between The Wolf Among Us and Season 2, I have been increasingly disappointed by the length of each episode and the effect on its content. They are all as long as that shortest episode from TWD Season One, and when they end, my first thought is "Already?!?" instead of "Can't wait for the next entry!"

    I've enjoyed, in general terms, what they're doing with Season 2's story. However, the thinness of each episode is really, really detracting from the experience. The same goes for The Wolf Among Us, as well. My worry is that this length has become some kind of new benchmark, which will be tremendously disappointing, especially once the Game of Thrones game rolls around.
  • I'm more or less convinced that holes in the writing, length and the enjoyment of the overall experience are connected. People tend to see the one that bothers them the most, but many perceived issues seem connected to me.
    phimseto posted: »

    My major problem is the brevity of the episodes. I haven't minded the writing like others seem to, but it feels undermined by how

  • Mistakes the writers made this season:

    Killing Omid, Rushing Carver Plot, Not using 400 Days characters fully, replacing writers, etc.

    They need to fix their problems.
  • 1:You don't know what the last 2 episodes have in stall so who know's where it will lead to. Also, Carver was a classic example at telltale showing how delusional some people in a zombie apocalypse. Much like the St Johns in Season 1, Carver thought that where they were located was safe and would never fall and in the end, it did fall. While Carver was build up to being this cunning man, he was really just an insane guy who thought his way was the only way. Bonnie is part of the group now, so Telltale was building her up to see how people would react to her bringing Carvers group to the lodge and having Walter and Alvin be killed. It's a smart way to see if people will forgive her or continue to despise her and as for Troy, well he was build as someone you'd hate and want to see him die. Being shot in the dick was a pretty good even though i liked Troy's character.

    2: They told you to play 400 days because they want you to play their games. I do agree that it was a lot of hype then just them being so shallow but what do you expect? We have a big enough group as it is. If they were to join the group, telltale would have to kill a dozen of people off and given that there was 3 episodes left, Don't you think it's too far gone to bring them in?



    3: Like i said earlier, there's still 2 episodes left so anything can happen. Personally, i've never trusted Luke. I just think there is something seedy about him. And as before, Having Kenny being bashed to a pulp and then having Luke screw up is wanting you to pick Kenny over Luke. This is why telltale is so successful. Because they make you think and believe/support things or people. Like Ben in Season 1 with all his screw ups, they did it to make you hate the kid and then at the end of episode 4 you have a chance to put away your hate towards him and save his live or let him go. Could be the same thing with Luke although not to the extent of Ben.

    I agree about the time of the episodes. 90 minutes is too short for such a long release dates. Seems to be as soon as Episode 5 of Season 1 came out, that the time duration of episodes went downhill. I mean from S1 Episodes 2-4 they were about 100 minutes, 110 minutes and Episode 4 was 2+ hours and people complained about that being to long yet, i'd rather a long episode worth the wait then short episodes.



    I think it's unfair on Season 2 because Season 1 will always be the best. It was almost flawless apart from episode being too short. It's like movies, you RARELY see sequels out do the originals. And FYI, i thought Episode 3 was the best of Season 2 so far, in fact, they're getting better as they go on in Season 2 and this is coming from someone who prefers Season 1 over Season 2.
  • It sucks that we wait 3 months for a 2 hour episode. Its unacceptable and bad fan fare. they also don't listen to fans. If they continue, they could very well be "Forgotten" and become the trash they once were when they developed Jurrassic Park and CSI.
    phimseto posted: »

    My major problem is the brevity of the episodes. I haven't minded the writing like others seem to, but it feels undermined by how

  • Game developer studio doesn't consist of programmers and artists only. You have bunch of other people that are needed in other parts of the project and can't start/finish their job if something before isn't done properly or at all. Something like the car factory.

    I wouldn't expect half of their guys to sit and twiddle their thumbs just because they're concept artist or something and are no longer needed in particular stage. They can work on other projects like the Borderlands series in this case.
    It's not like one person sits with 4 monitors all displaying stuff related to the other games at once because, you know, people need to focus...

    In my humble opinion of course...
    GOUSTTTT posted: »

    It's just a troll, Ignore him. Me too, I'm just worried they might try to work on 8 games at once...

  • Well since you are a moderator, care to explain why Telltale lied and said we would only have a 4-6 week wait period between episodes?
    I sincerely hope you don't plan to keep making us wait 3 months between episodes. First of all, that causes us to forget many things from episodes, and also makes YOU lose customers when they forget about your game.
    Vainamoinen posted: »

    I can relate to a lot of the narrative-argumentative stuff in the original post, but the blame shifting parts really don't hit the

  • I feel Telltale should drop a least ONE series. Once they get their results after both Borderlands and Game of thrones releases, and after TWAU and TWD S2 are completed, they should ditch an underperfoming series. (It won't be TWD, its too popular). I feel it will end up being borderlands. Why? Core borderlands players could care less about this game. Its a completely different genre.
    Navoletti posted: »

    yeah telltale quit the other series and concéntrate in the walking dead season 2 the more important.

  • I like ep3, it's great, as a game.
    But I'm spending more time on Wolf Among US than TWD S2....

    I can't relate to nearly any characters in S2 except Clementine.
    Even Clementine, sometimes I feel like I'm playing a soldier in FPS.

    In S1, from hotel marsh scene to finale, I felt genuine heartache. (and I was ashamed that I felt heartache while playing a game.)
    In S2, there are so many shocking scenes but it was...like I was watching a horror movie with popcorn and soda.

    Maybe I'm being a bit harsh to a great game, but TWD S1 was Too great I guess.
    Especially the emotional attachment...where did it go?
  • 5 months ago "don't worry there's still 4 episodes left

    3 months ago "don't worry there's still 3 episodes left"

    today "don't worry there's still 2 episodes left"
    Mrwalto69 posted: »

    1:You don't know what the last 2 episodes have in stall so who know's where it will lead to. Also, Carver was a classic example at

  • Here, from his bio:

    > Moderators on the Telltale forum are all volunteers from the community and still belong to the community. They are not employees of the company. Their posts express their personal opinion and must never be mistaken for official company statements. The moderators do not possess any relevant behind the scenes knowledge. They can make a guess based on experience and knowledge of Telltale's past if you have a question. They can't really do more than that.
    cameroncr95 posted: »

    Well since you are a moderator, care to explain why Telltale lied and said we would only have a 4-6 week wait period between episo

  • Yup. Soon there will be no time left; the season will conclude and we will be left wishing Clementine had a season worthy of her.

    5 months ago "don't worry there's still 4 episodes left 3 months ago "don't worry there's still 3 episodes left" today "don't worry there's still 2 episodes left"

  • Exactly. Telltale is just stupid to be taking on two new projects. They already have issues keeping up with releasing episodes. This is a disaster. I smell a company collapse coming in the next 5 years if they continue this horrible business practice.
    CathalOHara posted: »

    The new writers are fine, the problem really is they're not taking their time with this. People in the forum are impatient, and th

  • > Especially the emotional attachment...where did it go?

    To the cutting room floor.
    whereisLee posted: »

    I like ep3, it's great, as a game. But I'm spending more time on Wolf Among US than TWD S2.... I can't relate to nearly any

  • Working on four games at once will be their downfall. First off, Borderlands WILL fail. What core borderlands fan will play it? Its a completely different genre and story. Second, they already have trouble releasing 2 series on time. But 4? My god are you joking?
    Dark_Star posted: »

    I wish Season One writers were here. Especially Sean Vanaman and Gary Whitta. This Season feels...rushed. They had all great chara

  • I personally enjoyed the episode. Yeah, the hub's are great, and I'm pretty sure we might get some next episode. As, from the preview it seems to be a very "reflective" episode on what happened and searching for Sarah. In Telltales defence, I'm pretty sure you all mentioned story branching, how much you wanted it? I believe they're trying this- and to improve certain parts they need to get rid of others, and you can't say there isn't story branching because otherwise Nick would've just died this episode. You're focusing on the 400 Days characters that are with Carver, what about all the ones that didn't go with him? I'm pretty sure we'll run into them and get to interact with them. The episode was good and some of you are just being a bit too critical, I agree we could use hubs, but it's the story is what should always matter- and the story was quite good, and we've been introduced to two new characters: Mike and Jane, who seem pretty cool.

    People just need to look at the positives too:)
  • ...and you expect to believe Telltale after they have a known history of lying to their fans?

    Except Telltale is not working on four games at once. They said themselves they have a very small number of people working on Borderlands and Game of Thrones. It's more accurate to say they're working on two and a half games right now.

  • I stopped paying attention to the Wolf Among Us but when the latest episode came out, it got me back into it because it was such a great episode.
    To be fair, Season 1's character were much more well better developed then Season 2 characters + they built the relationships between characters better.
    Season 1 was 99% the perfect game and no matter how good Season 2 can get, it will never be as good as Season 1 but it's still a great series.
    whereisLee posted: »

    I like ep3, it's great, as a game. But I'm spending more time on Wolf Among US than TWD S2.... I can't relate to nearly any

  • Ah, well darn. I wonder if TTG actually reads these forums?
    Because there is just so much valid points on this thread that they MUST read.

    Here, from his bio: > Moderators on the Telltale forum are all volunteers from the community and still belong to the commu

  • Yes! I was trying to pin down what I thought was missing from this episode, you worded it perfectly. There needs to be more hub worlds to talk with the characters and see how they're feeling. A hub with the 400 Days characters would've worked perfectly, I don't know why they didn't do that instead of just cameos.

    I also felt there was too much focus on the story this episode. I know TWD games are all about story, but previous episodes and especially all of season 1 had a great balance of adventure gameplay and little puzzle solving to go along with the narrative. This episode, there seemed to be little to none of that.
    Qipoi posted: »

    Indeed. It's way less of an impact of us to see Carlos die for example, even in front of Sarah, because we barely know either char

  • edited May 2014
    ...and then modern fathead TTG will release "The Walking Dead Season 2" on disc, then "The Walking Dead Season 2: GOTY" on disc, and then a ton other editions to cash in.

    I have a feeling that the digital version of the PS3 game won't get a platinum trophy. TTG will probably force us to buy the disc if we wan't it. Execs probably met and said: "Haha those trophy hunters will buy the entire season digitally and not get the platinum! How about we make them pay AGAIN just to get it? HAHAHAHAHA!"

    Yup. Soon there will be no time left; the season will conclude and we will be left wishing Clementine had a season worthy of her.

  • Season 1: Soap Opera
    Season 2: Horror Movie
    Season 3: Comedy Movie?
    :P
    whereisLee posted: »

    I like ep3, it's great, as a game. But I'm spending more time on Wolf Among US than TWD S2.... I can't relate to nearly any

  • edited May 2014
    They do read.
    cameroncr95 posted: »

    Ah, well darn. I wonder if TTG actually reads these forums? Because there is just so much valid points on this thread that they MUST read.

  • I wouldn't blame 1 bad episode on them working on multiple games. It just comes down to writing. Usually telltale makes hits with everything they do but this time they missed. If it was a good episode you would be complaining.
  • edited May 2014
    How are people only realising now that telltale is strugling? I knew they was going to struggle as they said their creating the walking dead season 2 and the wolf amonst us and what make's it worse for them is they have bordaland's and game of thrones to do yet.

    Also the short lenth of each episode in season 2 and lack of hub's could be considered proof of this
    Due to lack of each episode lenth, It effect's the quality and the character's development in season 2 is bad
  • I'm sorry but I can't agree with the majority in this argument for many reasons.

    First, "the most rushed episode" actually took almost as long to come out as the previous one, and it's really odd for you to say rushed if you also based your hype on game files and not what actually happened in the game itself. And just because people agree that the episode 'felt super rushed' doesn't mean it was, as I'm sure nobody who agreed works for TTG.

    As for Carver, it was assumed he'd be the main villain, but this went against a lot of people's expectations, so I can see why people would complain about that. However, saying no character development makes me wonder if you even listened to his speeches. And to say he really isn't that smart makes me think that he simply didn't demonstrate his intelligence for you with some clever ruse, even though it was clear that his discussions with Clem and Kenny revealed how right and therefore intelligent he will probably be in hindsight. In other words, he was a great thematic device, not a 'final boss'.

    The twitter hype I think you're referring to talked about how "The 'butterfly effect' of choices & deaths from S1/400 Days & S2 is QUITE present in #TheWalkingDead S2 Ep 3", and is actually quite true. Although, from what you said, it seems like you didn't get what you expected, and so that's reason enough to complain (it's not). "Every single 400 days character has either 1 or 2 lines and they're all assholes now" is also not true, as Vince and Tavia had more than 2 lines, and to call them all assholes is pretty strange considering you weren't even able to respond to 6 of them in order to determine what they're like now. Further, we don't know how the 400 Days characters got along with Carver, so if they seemed like assholes, then maybe they were just acting tough to toe the line and protect themselves.

    Lastly, I can't really comment on the writing because it's not meant to satisfy everyone, and I didn't have much of a problem with it, so that's more of a difference of opinion. But really, if you're going to say "that working on 4 games at once is hurting TWDSeason2" at least put together a reasonable argument to support that claim instead of just talking about what you personally didn't like.
  • I agree.

    This was first episode I was not mind blown afterwards.
  • Baloe sorry but you sound like a blind fanboy. There were serious problems with ep3 & this season as a whole, which is very disappointing because of how good the 1st one was
    Baloe posted: »

    I don't agree at all. I think it was the best episode to date together with the season 1 finale. Who cares about hubs when th

  • You cannot really prove that working on more games at once hurts TWD development but you can clearly see that people are GENERALY more disappointed with this episode meaning, that something was wrong. Its still best game around without any competition BUT again... TTG can do better, so why they are lowering their standards??
    Katalept posted: »

    I'm sorry but I can't agree with the majority in this argument for many reasons. First, "the most rushed episode" actually to

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