The moth and storyline direction re: Clementine, Kenny and Luke

edited May 2014 in The Walking Dead
Hello there, I'm a longtime lurker(not the zombie kind), first time poster. Didn't see a discussion on this, so I decided to register and start it myself.

SPOILERS!!!! Obviously.

Okay, I think it's significant how episode 3 starts off with Clementine looking at the moth on the tree. I looked it up and some of the symbolic meanings for the moth are:

Vulnerability
Determination
Concealment
Attraction
Subtlety
Intuition
Faith

All of these are traits that can describe Clementine. Clementine is the moth.

Now, regarding Kenny and Luke, if you look at their name meanings, Kenny's name meaning is "handsome; fire born, & born of fire." Luke's meaning is "light."

Moths are attracted to light. They find the light in the darkness. Kenny and Luke are the sources of light in The Walking Dead, but Kenny is like fire. and you know that saying, "Like a moth attracted to a flame" or something like that, meaning that the moth goes to the flame only to burn and die.

Now, before the Kenny fans begin to hate me, let me tell you, I love Kenny. I admire him a lot. I love his take action attitude and how he is willing to do anything to protect the people he cares about. But the man is too rash. Carlos and Rebecca hit the nail on the head regarding his character. He does not think things through. He lacks caution and doesn't think about the consequences of his actions before he does things. And that will get people killed, in fact, it already has, ex: Walter, Alvin(determinant), Carlos(sort of, if you want me to elaborate, I will).

There's no doubt after ep.3 with him smashing Carver's face in for vengeance, Kenny is a destructive man. I feel like things are just going to get darker where he is considered. He is on a path of destruction and I'm worried he will (unintentionally) put Clementine (and the others) in serious danger.

Luke on the other hand, is different. He does think things through, he is cautious, and he does consider the consequences. He does fuck up sometimes, but at least he admits it. In my opinion, Luke is an all around good guy who still has morals and humanity in him, even after all this time. He's not like Walter, who was kind to a fault. Luke has a good balance of being strong and tough enough to survive while still retaining his goodness and humanity. His name means light, and he's kind of like a beacon of hope in the dark world that is The Walking Dead.

Like a lot of you, I really think that TellTale is setting things up for a Kenny vs. Luke thing. The storyline is basically Clem growing up and developing and these two men can determine what kind of person Clem will become. Who would you, as Clementine, follow? Kenny, who you have such deep personal history with, but will most likely lead you on a path to destruction and get you killed, or Luke, who is most likely to keep you on the straight and narrow with your humanity intact?

For me personally, I would follow Luke, because I still want Clementine to retain her humanity, but if I can, I want to help Kenny turn away from this dark path he is going down.
«1345

Comments

  • This is the most beautiful post i have ever seen
    ....i cant decide who i would choose :/
  • Or remember Jane says You should ditch your group if you want to live so maybe clem will also have a third option of going solo. Molly does it. why cant clem
  • Thank you.

    It really is a hard decision, isn't it?
    Cazabubu posted: »

    This is the most beautiful post i have ever seen ....i cant decide who i would choose :/

  • I suppose, yes she could go solo, but I wouldn't want that for Clem. What's the point of surviving if you don't have anything or anyone to survive for?

    Or remember Jane says You should ditch your group if you want to live so maybe clem will also have a third option of going solo. Molly does it. why cant clem

  • I LOVE YOU FOR FINDING THIS. Here I was thinking the moth simply represented Clem's innocence and childishness, but wow. Your interpretation is way better, and I agree with you.

    The way Kenny took joy in killing Carver was something my Lee I crafted would never ever do. Yeah, he fucked up many lives, but we don't fuck him up every second before he dies. Luke, for me, represents the softness in Lee, and Kenny is the hardness in Lee. Clem can be like one or the other.

    I choose Luke, because if others had no humanity, she wouldn't be alive. She has been relying on the kindness of other folks, and now she's hardened enough to survive on her own!
  • Thanks, and I agree with you too. If Lee was there, I don't think he would want Clem to watch. I understand that Carver had to die because if they didn't kill him, Carver would just keep coming after them. A quick bullet to the head would have sufficed and they would have been able to escape sooner and possibly have avoided Carlos getting shot and then devoured by walkers and Sarita getting bitten.

    I do like your idea that Luke and Kenny are two sides of Lee. Never thought of it that way. That's why I want them both to work together for Clem's sake.

    I LOVE YOU FOR FINDING THIS. Here I was thinking the moth simply represented Clem's innocence and childishness, but wow. Your inte

  • edited May 2014
    "Luke, for me, represents the softness in Lee, and Kenny is the hardness in Lee. Clem can be like one or the other."
    --
    Nice description. I believe Clem can maintain the balance between Kenny and Luke if the 3 of them ended up being final 3. Kenny cannot be too dark, it will consume him while Luke should toughen up a bit in order to survive. Clem represents that balance.

    I LOVE YOU FOR FINDING THIS. Here I was thinking the moth simply represented Clem's innocence and childishness, but wow. Your inte

  • Kenny all da way suckas
    Cazabubu posted: »

    This is the most beautiful post i have ever seen ....i cant decide who i would choose :/

  • If Clem tried to go solo, she'd probably end up like Molly. Or worse...Jane.
    Liayso posted: »

    I suppose, yes she could go solo, but I wouldn't want that for Clem. What's the point of surviving if you don't have anything or anyone to survive for?

  • remember that tweet... I think is was ice cream or pizza. something like that.

    some(most) people think its choosing between Kenny or luke.

    and now that you said this, I think im going with luke. for sure.
  • Molly was cool though. She still had humanity in her and she cared, well, about Clementine at least. Molly was going to leave Kenny and Lee behind in that alley when they started to get surrounded by walkers, but Clem's plea reached her and she helped out.

    Jane so far, doesn't seem to care about anyone but herself. I could be wrong, we'll just have see in episode 4.

    If Clem tried to go solo, she'd probably end up like Molly. Or worse...Jane.

  • edited May 2014
    NOW THAT ALL OF YOU HAVE READ THIS... VOTE WHO YOU WOULD GO WITH, KENNY OR LUKE:


    strawpoll.me/1698110
  • Definitely Luke. If it meant getting Clementine safe and alive.
  • I remember that tweet, does anyone know the exact wording of that? Which do you think Kenny and Luke are? I think Kenny's the pizza and Luke is the ice cream.

    And wow, I feel like I'm converting people to Luke's side. Kenny fans/supporters, please join in. I would love to discuss.

    remember that tweet... I think is was ice cream or pizza. something like that. some(most) people think its choosing between Kenny or luke. and now that you said this, I think im going with luke. for sure.

  • Awesome post! Funny since I was looking up the season 2 character's name meanings last week. A lot of them have symbolism and are related to the characters, the ones I can name off the top of my head are William, (determined leader; resolve) Rebecca, (bound; faithful wife) Omid, (hope) and apparently now Kenny and Luke. So I can see this happening, especially with the rumored ice cream and pizza decision.

    And yeah, I think you're spot-on about Kenny. He's going down a dark road, and him possibly losing Sarita could be the thing that gives him that push. I think I'd go with Luke, to be honest. He may not be as capable, but that can change, and I think it's more important (and harder) for Clem to hold onto her humanity.
  • edited May 2014
    Man, this post is letting me think. I said Kenny on the other thread, but somehow I understand that Luke would be an as good choice.
  • Yeah, the character's names do have a significance, I think. "Clementine" means "Merciful." She was very merciful in Season 1. In Season 2, if you choose to stay with Kenny and watch him kill Carver, I feel like she's losing some of that mercy.

    I do find it funny and ironic that one of the meanings for Kenny is "handsome" and in the preview for episode 4 he's asking Clem if he still looks pretty. XD
    sayakamiki posted: »

    Awesome post! Funny since I was looking up the season 2 character's name meanings last week. A lot of them have symbolism and are

  • Wow, what a wonderful and thought out post! Nothing I can really add that hasn't already been beautifully said, but I definitely agree. If I have to choose, I'm going with Luke but I absolutely want to try to save Kenny...from himself, if I can as well.

    Luke is Clem's humanity right now and Sarita is Kenny's, and I fear when we lose Sarita we'll lose any morality from Kenny too
  • I feel like Kenny and Luke are good cop and bad cop Kenny does the harsh and horrible things and Luke tries his best to retain his humanity,I don't know who I'd stick with to be honest but Ken is really dangerous.
  • I dont think so Jane care About herself because she teach Clementine the new skill how to survive
    Liayso posted: »

    Molly was cool though. She still had humanity in her and she cared, well, about Clementine at least. Molly was going to leave Kenn

  • Amazing post! The symbolism is really profound. Makes me think harder about the ending choice, who will I go with? Hopefully they can agree to work together as a team.

    Thank you for this great read! And Welcome to the community. :D
  • Thanks for the welcome! :D I'm really making you guys think very hard about this. I'm almost as bad as TellTale! :P
    JonGon posted: »

    Amazing post! The symbolism is really profound. Makes me think harder about the ending choice, who will I go with? Hopefully they can agree to work together as a team. Thank you for this great read! And Welcome to the community. :D

  • I love Kenny but I have a feeling we are going to have to put him down sooner or later. O_O
    Liayso posted: »

    I remember that tweet, does anyone know the exact wording of that? Which do you think Kenny and Luke are? I think Kenny's the pizz

  • edited May 2014
    I love this. Anyway, I don't know who, if i'm honest. Some days I think i'd rather be with Kenny and other days I think i'd rather be with Luke. If this does become a decision then I will have two save files for sure. It would just be one of those decisions that just makes you curious about how it would have been the other way.

    Overall though, I think i'd say Luke. Kenny is dangerous whether he tries to be or not. Clementine is my favorite character and all that matters to me that she is safe.
  • Do you mean like, we'll have to kill him because he's becoming too dangerous and too much of a liability? Oh man, I don't know if I would be able to do that.
    Scytheslay posted: »

    I love Kenny but I have a feeling we are going to have to put him down sooner or later. O_O

  • Symbolism is nice but ask yourself this. Whose plan ultimately got the group/Clem out of the "prison," Kenny or Luke? One guys plan failed as he was captured and utimately caused others (mainly Kenny) harm. The other guys plan saved the group. Were their casualties? Of course. Its The Walking Dead. But ultimately Kenny's plan paid off. If Luke would've had his way, the group would still be locked up with Carver ruling over them with his merciless ways.

    Also s far as Carver goes, if Kenny wouldn't have been there, Luke probably doesn't have the guts to kill him and whose to say Carver wouldn't eventually hunt the group down again with a not so "forgiving mindset" this time?

    Alot of times I questioned backing Kenny as Lee. I won't make that same mistake as Clem.
  • I would go with Kenny. The way Luke didn't want to shoot a murderous tyrant like Carver tells me something about his character, how much Luke can handle. In a world like this, someone has to do those types of things. If Luke can't handle that, I don't know if I would feel safe traveling with him.

    There needs to be someone who can make the tough moral choices in a group, (Kenny) and someone who vouches for people and tries to keep the morale alive in a group. (Clementine)

    Kenny has already shown he can and will give his life to protect Clementine, and whether Luke would do the same is questionable.
  • I am literally speechless... I'm in awe!
  • Yes, Kenny's plan using the herd to cause chaos did get them out, but it was Jane's idea of using the walker blood and guts to walk through it. Kenny wanted to shoot his way out, "improvise" was how he put it. I'm with Mike on that, you don't plan to improvise. Luke wanted to wait at least one more night to rest up and gather their strength back. Him, Kenny, and Carlos were beat to shit, Sarita was a mess, Sarah has panic issues and Rebecca is pregnant. They have little to no supplies too and from what Luke said, Carver and his men have picked the area clean.

    Kenny's plan got them out, but had they listened to Luke, I think they would have a better chance at surviving after escaping. Also, that "minute" that Kenny took to bash in Carver's face could have been a minute used to get away from the compound faster and possibly avoid Tavia and the other shooting Carlos and ultimately getting Sarita bitten.

    I do agree, Carver had to be killed. There was no way Carver would let them get away and he would come after them. But brutally bashing his head in was a step too far. One quick bullet to the head would have been enough.

    I like that Luke second guess killing Carver in cold blood. It shows that he still has humanity in him and in the world of TWD we need that.

    Symbolism is nice but ask yourself this. Whose plan ultimately got the group/Clem out of the "prison," Kenny or Luke? One guys pla

  • I feel it's like a love triangle (Luke clementine kenny) but it's not but what ever clementine does will upset one or the other
  • In awe of what exactly?

    I am literally speechless... I'm in awe!

  • edited May 2014
    Man, I wanted to write something like this. But you beat me to it! Though, it's kinda different.

    One of the symbolism for butterflies was "transformation" (I'm not sure if moths also has this symbolism, but considering they also have metamorphosis, maybe.). I thought it represents Clementine - how she changes overtime, how she isn't the innocent and naive Clementine in season 1.

    I'm not sure if telltale decided to put the moth intentionally, or not. Either way this is something worth discussing.
  • I don't think they will make us decide whether to kill Kenny or not, but it seems like we may be faced with a decision to save either Kenny or Luke.
    Liayso posted: »

    Do you mean like, we'll have to kill him because he's becoming too dangerous and too much of a liability? Oh man, I don't know if I would be able to do that.

  • Yeah, I think "Transformation" can be applied to moths as well, and the game is about how Clem is transforming and changing. That's what I'm trying to get at here. I believe Kenny and Luke will be vital to Clementine's further (I say further because her time with Lee and Christa definitely changed her) transformation from child to survivor. They affect her and represent different ways she could change.
    ayano-chan posted: »

    Man, I wanted to write something like this. But you beat me to it! Though, it's kinda different. One of the symbolism for but

  • I would usually go with Luke in case of morality, but that shit went out the window when the man who killed Walter, Reggie, Alvin, slapped the shit out of Clementine, made Carlos slap the shit out of his daughter and took Kenny's out was in front of me, was lying on the ground. I wanted to beat the shit out of him as well. Unfortunately the game didn't give me that option.
  • The one thing that both Kenny and Luke suffer from is need to dominate. Maybe Clem will be the thing to make them change their perspective for this girl!
    Liayso posted: »

    Thanks, and I agree with you too. If Lee was there, I don't think he would want Clem to watch. I understand that Carver had to d

  • Well, you can shoot him yourself, but only if you didn't save Alvin in episode 2, but you just graze him.

    I understand the urge to get revenge on Carver after everything he has done, and it feels great at first, but afterwards it just leaves a bad aftertaste in your mouth, because it kind of shows that you are no better than he is.
    9tailsfox2 posted: »

    I would usually go with Luke in case of morality, but that shit went out the window when the man who killed Walter, Reggie, Alvin,

  • Plus she shoots a dick in the dick, even though he was a dick his dick didn't deserve that. That was a dick move on Jane's part.
    Liayso posted: »

    Molly was cool though. She still had humanity in her and she cared, well, about Clementine at least. Molly was going to leave Kenn

  • Yea, I'm still with Kenny. Eventhough it may have been Jane's idea to use walker blood, it shows that Kenny had the right plan, it just needed to be tweeked and improved upon. Imo thats how a sound group works. Come up with a plan that works and then improve upon it till it is solid. It sure don't work when you've got one guy going rogue, coming up with a failed plan, and trying to rescue the group by himself. Btw, the reason Kenny and Luke were "beat to shit" is again because of Luke's failed plan. I also wouldn't have wanted to wait around and given Bonnie (who is a headcase imo) a chance to "rest on it" and change her mind.

    While you may question his morality, I had absolutely zero problems with what Kenny did to Carver. I'm sure Alvin and the other ghost of characters that Carver killed were probably cheering him on.

    Also you call humanity, others deem as weakness. Especailly when its comes down to hesitating whether or not to kill an insane madman who has already murdered many a people within his own "community."
    Liayso posted: »

    Yes, Kenny's plan using the herd to cause chaos did get them out, but it was Jane's idea of using the walker blood and guts to wal

  • Yea, I'm still with Kenny. Eventhough it may have been Jane's idea to use walker blood, it shows that Kenny had the right plan, it just needed to be tweeked and improved upon. Imo thats how a sound group works. Come up with a plan that works and then improve upon it till it is solid. It sure don't work when you've got one guy going rogue, coming up with a failed plan, and trying to rescue the group by himself. Btw, the reason Kenny and Luke were "beat to shit" is again because of Luke's failed plan. I also wouldn't have wanted to wait around and given Bonnie (who is a headcase imo) a chance to "rest on it" and change her mind.

    While you may question his morality, I had absolutely zero problems with what Kenny did to Carver. I'm sure Alvin and the other ghost of characters that Carver killed were probably cheering him on.

    Also what you call humanity, others deem as weakness. Especailly when its comes down to hesitating whether or not to kill an insane madman who has already murdered many a people within his own "community."
    Liayso posted: »

    Yes, Kenny's plan using the herd to cause chaos did get them out, but it was Jane's idea of using the walker blood and guts to wal

Sign in to comment in this discussion.