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Playing Devil's Advocate...

posted by Ohyoupokedme on - Viewed by 4.7K users
A lot of people seemed pissed at Luke suggesting that they leave Kenny behind.

This is overdramatized for two reasons:

- Luke said that he may have been playing devils advocate. It may not have supported his actual opinion on the topic.

- Luke was thinking smart: if Kenny didn't get up until the morning or was to injured to move on, they would HAVE to leave him behind if they were leaving tonight. That didn't happen, but had it happened, it leaves the group with one of those two options: Leave tonight and leave Kenny behind, or wait and bide their time until they are healed up.

Luke was simply pointing out the options they had at the moment. Don't blame Luke for playing Devil's Advocate, just relax.
  • He wouldn't have said that if it was Nick or Carlos or someone he cared about ..
  • luke was being smart.
  • I don't blame Luke for that. I blame him for being pretty useless and disappearing at the end of the episode again.
  • Most people i've seen went "we need to leave now" Luke was all for waiting for everyone to recover first until everyone else insisted on leaving
  • Yeah Luke's initial suggestion was to wait for Kenny to recover, but he kinda caved when the majority of people wanted to leave immediately. Luke just pointed that if they were gonna leave immediately, they might have to consider leaving Kenny if he didn't recover quick enough.
  • Leave Kenny behind but don't kill Carver. Hypocrite 101
    • There is a difference between trying to protect a large group of people, and executing a man in cold blood.

      also, Luke wasn't suggesting they leave Kenny. He simply said that if they really wanted to leave that night, they'd have to think about it. It's a big difference.

      I don't see how you could see it as hypocritical when the 2 situations are exactly NOTHING alike.
      • Protecting a large group of people eh? So killing a man who would of chased after THEM and murdered them in cold blood isn't protecting the group?
        Lets be honest here, if Carver got outta there he would of chased down the group and slaughtered them. Kenny made the right call taking down Carver and in turn, protecting the group.
        As for Luke leaving Kenny I was completely against that. If it were Luke or someone else in the situation ( Sarita is the exception ) I would of been ok with it. The fact is I don't want to leave my loved ones behind. In my case that's Kenny and Sarita. You might not want to leave Luke behind if he was in that situation which I can understand. But non the less he did suggest it. And before you start calling me a hypocrite I will just put it out there and say yes I am. That's what gets us through this world with the people we care about though.
        • And would people have hated Kenny if he was the one saying people should be left behind?
          Carver was crippled. He couldn't have chased them down if he tried.

          The 2 situations aren't even comparable.
          • Like I just said above no I wouldn't be no bothered about leaving others behind because I don't really care about them. We couldn't take a chance with Carver, plus the guy got his eye beaten out by him and his skull almost crushed. The least Kenny needed was revenge on that fucker. Would you judge Luke if he was the one that got beaten and took care of Carver?
          • Luke's plan was to tied Carver up, which was clear BEFORE Carver was crippled.
        • I'm not making excuses for Carver, I wanted that son of a bitch dead too, but there is a difference between killing someone and beating someone to death. Kenny wasted time and energy by beating Carver when he could have simply shot him in the head. I know everyone wanted revenge, but sticking around to beat Carver wasn't the smartest idea at the time.
          • I agree with you. And killing Carver in this way also has the meaning that “those who go against Carver is not better than him in morality”, and I think that's why Carver satirized Kenny in such a harsh way: he wanted to enrage Kenny to kill him in a brutal way. So my Clem told Luke to shoot Carver and also tried to stop Kenny from beating Carver to death. If I had the choice, I would kill Carver with one bullet in the head before Kenny could beat him.
      • Is killing a man that wants to enslave you and kill you if you don't do what he says really killing in cold blood? My opinion is no.
      • In that situation, does leaving Kenny behind have any difference with kill him in cold blood?
    • Violently killing a man in front of his daughter out of fear he might turn, but avoiding dealing with his bitten son for as long as possible.

      Looks like he learned from the best. ;)
      • Larry was going to turn, it had to be done and it doesn't matter if you like it or not. His chances of survival were 5-10% without medical equipment to stabilize the heart and with a heart attack that severe it could only keep it stable for 10 mins give or take. Kenny didn't enjoy killing Larry but it had to be done.
        Lilly didn't give up on her father because he was family. Kenny didn't give up on Duck because he was family. It isn't as simple as "My kid is bit, shit better shoot him". Of course he's going to be in denial, just like Lilly was when Larry bit the dust.
        • No, it didn't have to be done. We don't even know if he was dead in the first place. You can see Larry moving right before Kenny drops the saltlick on his head, indicating he might've still been alive. It's just another example of Kenny's impulsive behavior.

          The fact that Duck was his son doesn't make him any less of a hypocrite. If he was ok with killing Lilly's father to prevent him from turning, then he should've been ok with dealing with his son too.
          • Right so please look up facts about CPR before you start weighing up the odds. CPR alone cannot restart a heart it can only keep it stable for so long and keep blood pumping around the body. Larry had a bad heart attack, Lilly says in episode 1 that he had to go to the hospital for some of them and couldn't get over them without medical equipment. We didn't have that or any pills to get him back on his feet even if the CPR worked. Larry passed out from this heart attack which means it was fatal and no blood or oxygen was going to the brain. Sooner or later he would of been dead. Only thing we could do was finish him off.

            In the Duck part I never said he wasn't a hypocrite. All I said was that he wasn't giving up on his kid, I'm sure you would't just give up on your child like that. I'm pretty fuckin' sure I wouldn't, no father would. Lilly was in denial about Larry and Kenny was in denial about Duck. I never said he wasn't a hypocrite, I'm with you on that one but all I'm saying is that it isn't as simple as jut shooting him in the head and being done with it like you said above.
            • Don't bother, some people just want to believe in miracles and magic. Not to say that a heart attack kills you faster than a bite.
              • I know mate, presented with hard fact and they still can't accept it. :P
                • What do you mean?
                  Ok, maybe you're right, maybe Larry was dead either way. That still doesn't make the way Kenny handled things right. He could've at least waited to make sure he's dead and for Lilly to calm down a bit.
                  • Or calm things down at once by killing Larry on spot before he jumps up reanimated and attacks other people.
                    • Walkers are slow. He wasn't going to "jump up". Even if he reanimated they'd have enough time to kill him before he hurt anyone.
                      • http"://""."com/watch"?v=dmCobUDErNA


                        The walker breathed shortly (as if he was alive) and then attacked Katjaa in no time. So yes, Killing Larry was the safest way to make sure no one gets bit.
                        • No, that logic doesn't work.

                          Larry ONLY breathes if you press his chest enough times. If you don't, he doesn't.

                          Pressing someone#s chest does not make them turn quicker.

                          Therefore, Larry was breathing, and was alive.
                  • How could she of calmed down? We were going to smash in her fathers head. Dead or not that is still unpleasant. She would of went down to the last breath trying to bring him back. Who's to say he wasn't going to jump up at that very second? It was fast paced but that's what saves people in this world, fast choices and not thinking about the consequences. It had to be done sooner or later.
                • I could say the same about you guys:

                  Larry only breaths if you press his chest enough times. Pressing someone's chest does not speed up the change into a walker. Pressing someone's chest can save their life in the event of a heart attack.

                  Therefore, he was breathing, and he was alive.
                  • It does not speed up the process, but what if Larry had turned? What if Kenny killed him just shortly before he turned if you choose to help him?
                    • If you choose to help Kenny, then that is the reason Larry didn't breathe and so you just ended up being the one who killed him, not kenny. But he was capable of saving in every playthrough, and in every playthrough it is cut short by kenny and determinedly lee.

                      I understand kenny's motivations. But they were not correct. At the very least he should have held the salt lick over his head until the visible signs of turning were shown.
                      • >not helping someone is the same thing as killing them
                        Such is life in Europe

                        And no, zombies can jump up, proven by episode 2 where you bring Travis back with you and he attacks one second after breathing.
                        I can even tell you what exactly would have happened: Larry breathes, Lilly pushes Kenny away, Larry gets up, bites Lilly and then Kenny smashes his head in and then Lillys. End of the story, both are dead.
                        • You've just completely ignored all I've said about the fact that the breath CANT have been him turnin into a zombie.
                          • Because zombies don't breathe when they reanimate.. right?
                            • No, because he only breathes if you push his chest enough. If you don't push it, he just remains like that.

                              Reanimation isn't speeded up by pushing on a chest, but that can bring people back to life.

                              Ergo, he must have been coming back to life.
                              • As far as I remember, helping Kenny out makes him smash in the head faster. I'm sure if we had waited for some seconds, he might have started to breath aswell and then he starts attacking Lilly.
                                • So you're justification for helping Kenny kill him is that Larry only become a zombie if you help Kenny kill him?

                                  That...doesn't make any sense. He is definitely still alive in the Lilly version, and so he can always theoretically be saved.
                                  • Did you actually read what I wrote? If you help Kenny, he kills him earlier, before he starts breathing, but if you decide to help Lilly, Kenny will kill Larry slightly later, shortly before he reanimates.
                                    • ...but I've just proved to you that if you help Lilly, he DOESN'T reanimate because he breathes after pressing the chest a certain number of times, and pressing on the chest doesn't speed up reanimation.

                                      How many times do I need to tell you that?
                                      • Breathing can also mean reanimating, you've seen that before with Trevis !!!
                                        • I'll have to say it again it seems:

                                          YES breathing can be reanimating. HOWEVER. Larry ONLY breathes if you push his chest enough times.

                                          Pushing the chest does NOT speed up reanimation, and he doesn't breath if you don't push the chest at all.

                                          Therefore, the fact that he breathes after performing CPR MUST mean that he was coming back to life, and was not reanimating.

                                          Do you understand now?
                                          • Or Kenny killed him earlier in case you help him than if you help Lilly.
                                            • Yes, so if you help Kenny then you murder Larry, as he can still theoretically be saved, and if you help Lilly then you DO save him, but he is murderer moments after you save him by Kenny.

                                              In either case, Kenny still killed a man who was not yet dead, nor reanimating.
                                              • How do we know that he wasn't reanimating when Larry started to breath? Before you say again "B-But cpr no speed up reanimation" I meant to say that Larry could aswell have started to breath shortly after Kenny killed him in case you help Kenny, because the killing goes faster.
                                                • If you help Lilly but don't push on his chest, he doesn't breathe, despite the scene lasting the exact same amount of time.

                                                  Therefore, he must have been breathing back to life. There is literally no evidence which anyone has provided which can contradict his breath being one of life.
                      • Yup, he could hold a saltlick heavier than himself for a few minutes longer. No problem.
        • I agree. In a world where there are no zombies I would've tried to save Larry. In a world where he might reanimate and chew off my lips while giving him mouth to mouth I'm crushing his head.
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    Deceptio BANNED
    It's just the Kenny fans that hate Luke over the most stupid things. Since most die hard Kenny fans hate Luke, they'll find anything possible, even if it's the tiniest and dumbest thing, just to have a reason to hate on Luke.
  • Exactly... and I believe that Luke was just giving a reason why they had to wait. Which is why he said "Dammit, If yall are serious about leaving tonight..."
  • Luke was totally against leaving that night, but he knew that everyone else wanted to leave. At the time, leaving Kenny was the only way to do it.

    He was just bringing up the matter for discussion, he wasn't actively suggesting it. I can see why the CHARACTERS might have misread his intent, but I don't see how anyone can hate Luke for weighing up all the options.

    Also, Kenny AGREED with leaving him behind, so yeah.
  • Agreed. It's not like Luke wanted Kenny dead. He suggested they leave him behind:

    1. To prove his point that waiting a little longer was the right thing to do.

    2. Because carrying an unconsious man while trying to escape armed men and countless walkers would put everyone in a huge risk.

    I swear people are finding the dumbest excuses to hate on Luke. There are characters that have made way worse mistakes than he has and receive little to no hate.
    • Maybe the reason most Kenny fans hate Luke so much is because they think that we will have to choose between Luke or Kenny, and they feel threatened by Luke, so they use anything they can to attack Luke as a way to protect Kenny.
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