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"We're more alike than you think"...Amid The Ruins, lies evil

posted by leatherwolf89 on - last edited - Viewed by 7.8K users
I don't really understand what Carver meant when he said this to Clementine. Maybe in Episode 4, we will see are more evil, psychotic Clementine starting to emerge? The EP 4 title card seems to imply her slipping either into insanity or something more darker. Unless, Jane convinces her to rub blood on her face.
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  • Maybe Clem will become a villain? Just joking xD.
  • That there leaders, stronger than others and that they think alike.

    Carver does have a point, but at the same time he doesn't. Clem is strong, but not a murder like carver.
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    OzzyUK Moderator
    Carver is implying that Clementine has leadership qualities like himself and that she is not a weak follower like the rest of the group.
    • I agree with Ozzy. Carver had a fascination with Clementine because she was a true leader - not a follower like the rest of them (save Luke).
    • Yeah, but before Carver was brutally beaten by Kenny, walking away from him prompts him to say something like, "Don't walk away, I know who you are!" like he's saying Clem enjoys violence and being crazy too.

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        OzzyUK Moderator

        Yeah he was also hinting at that but Clementine isn't a big fan of unnecessary violence, i really doubt that she is the type of person to kill people unless it is a life or death situation unlike Carver who kills innocent people like Reggie for no other reason other than "being weak of character".

  • As much as I do not want to see a mentally-disturbed Clementine, I think that your choice of whether or not to watch Kenny brutalize Carver should have monumental effects on Clem's state of mind in episode 4.
  • Did anybody get reminded of Lee when Carver was giving his whole alpha-leader speech to Clementine? Lee dropped Ben in my playthrough and the parallels between that and Carver throwing Reggie were disturbing. Carver was like an evolved bad version of what Lee could be turning into.

    And by the end of the episode I nearly agreed with Carver. I stayed and watched Kenny kill him after saying "Just shoot him", and I didn't hesitate to tear into the walker guts and smear myself. Whether its Clementine trying to talk some sense into Sarah or Carver giving the whole group a speech, the overarching theme seems to be that tough is all we got now or else we die.
    • Well, to be fair, Ben said that he wanted to die during that scene.
    • Carver follows Rebecca to get back his family.
      Lee follows The Stranger to get back his family.

      Carver throws Reggie off a building.
      Lee lets Ben fall to his death. (potentially)

      Carver and Lee didn't give up even in the most dire circumstances, Carver still taunting the group in his last moments, and Lee helping Clementine in his final moments.

      Both want to be fathers.
      Both were leaders.

      Carver and Lee weren't alike in many ways, but the ways they were? Draw a scary parallel.
      Clementine can see Lee in Carver. Do you know how scary that is? To see this man who salvaged you from death's doorstep now resemble this murdering monster?

      • I have also noticed that when they are both beating up someone (Kenny with Carver and Andrew St. John with Lee and only if you continue to beat up Andy) a member of their group tells them "that's enough" when they have clearly gone too far.

        They also both met Clementine while searching a house.

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    Bane-Of-Iron BANNED
    oh lee we need your urban expertise
  • I can't believe so many Clementines watched Carver get killed. This is what he wanted you to do, to get dragged down to his level. You let him win!

    "We're more alike than you think" was NOT a good thing. Watching Carver get killed is just the genesis of a new Carver.
    • Clem has seen a lot of shit happen before her eyes. she was there when Lilly shot Carley, she walked through bloody places where people were cut into pieces to be served as a dinner, she saw a man having his head crushed by a salt-lick, she killed the stranger to save me(in my gameplay at least), she had to shoot the man (in my gameplay at least) who protected her during most of her post-apocalyptical life.

      It's hard to tell man! but Clem has already lost much of her humanity during S01. but she never lost her sense of justice and her love for those who are closest to her. Carver's death really was nothing new to her at all.. That's why Carver saw potential on her. the difference is that Carver uses violence and brutality to impose his motivations and subjugate others. Clem only uses violence to defend herself and to survive in this world. she is not a psychopath.
      • Shit man I couldn't agree with you more on that. Like Carver says " that girl has seen more than you can imagine" but it doesn't have to change her.
      • Witnessing a brutal situation and choosing to witness a brutal situation are two different things, she didn't have to see Carver get murdered.

        • That's a good point! and you can be sure that I questioned myself a lot about my decision to let her watch it. ;)

          But, from my point of view, Clem reached the point of truly hate Carver by all the violence and injustice that he caused. and I think the consummation of this hatred was to see Kenny (her closest "family" person) taking the blame to protect her and being brutally beaten because of it.

          Clem didn't like what she saw, of course not .. but she had enough motivations to stay there. witnessing Kenny taking his revenge and watching that evil man going away forever!

      • and that is why Clem is a true badass. She will not let the harsh realities of the ZA destroy her integrity.

      • I agree with this 100%! Clem is not a kid anymore, and I don't think any cognitive or moral devlopment theories apply to her anymore. Clementine could be immoral and ruthless, and that'd be understandable after all what's she been trough, but she's not. It doesn't get to her, not in the sense of "If they do it, I must do it too" and that's because Clementine matured early. Clementine is smart, she knows her own boundaries and she's developed her own sense of values.

        Unless other times Clementine has witnessed murders, she's now fully aware of the situation, having experienced Carver's tyranny in first person. The guy was a real villain, and he deserved punishment. It's comprehensible for people like Rebecca, who lost her husband and was persecuted by Carver, and Kenny, who was brutally beaten to the point he lost an eye, to punish Carver. As the achievement for that scene says "Rehabilitated-Gave what you got." it was justice for me. Was it necessary for Clementine to watch, though? Probably not, but if it means it will toughen her up, then she's welcome to stay by all means.

    • Exactly! I didn't want to give him that final satisfaction before he died that he knows a girl watched his brutal murder!
    • But what if i agree with Carver? And i actually wanted to help him if i could :
  • Implying that Carver was talking about how Clem has leadership skills...and how she reminds of him, and that she is not "comfortable with it yet."

    I think that Clementine/Player will be forced to make a decision...that will make us look like something that Carver would've done...

    Like that watch...stole it...knew it was a bad thing...returned it to Nick good thing...I dont even...this game is sometimes screwin' with me...
    • Not just leadership skills, but the brutality that Carver feels is needed to survive in the world of TWD. Watching his execution just proves him right.

      But I guess some also lack the imagination to understand they are role-playing a small girl, and would have her acting like their favourite FPS persona if they could.
  • he was just saying that clem is a leader that will make the smart choices.
    • And the "smart choice" is to watch him get brutally murdered?

      No, he was suggesting that she has something ruthless in her. And right now 75% of Clementines are leaning that way.
      • I agree with you. Kenny did some fucked up shit, but Clem cant afford to be a child anymore. The kids who stay kids die or get people killed. Duck, Ben, Sarah, and even Clem are guilty of that. When her group falls apart she is going to be alone in a world full of cannibals, rapists, and survivors who cant afford to give a fuck about her. My choice to have her watch isnt going to win any morality points, but hopefully it will harden her enough to help her survive when the friends she depends on are gone.

      • i didn't watch him get beaten because i knew kenny would get the job done. no use sparing the wicked in their world.

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