My Ultimate Theory [possibly MAJOR SPOILERS]

"I guess it's a good thing Fables are hard to kill". - Faith, after she's done stomping Woody's axe deeper into his skull.

Many people feel confident about Faith still being alive, many theories have been pieced together but the fact of the matter is that, beyond any doubt, it was her head we found by our doorstep. No glamour would reproduce the bruises left by the Woodsman slapping her around. It was her, period. And we know, from the characters' reactions and (even from comic's fans, but there's no need to take that into account), that decapitation is enough to kill a fable, and specially one not as notorious as Donkeyskin girl.

So, how could Faith still be alive? Like I said, it positively was her head we found. Well, let me start by saying that much like decapitation, a Fable having his/hers heart ripped out would kill him/her too (Bigby tearing Dum's throat seemed to have done the trick as well) and we just happen to know a guy that realized a heart transplant on himself (just to show off...), accidentally replacing it for the heart of a pig, thus getting the nickname (or name) Doctor Swinheart. Now the question is... Could he reattach someone's severed head? From what I've seem and read/heard from the game's lore*, I've little doubt to no that he could. Now then, could Faith and Lily have figured it out? Leading to them making plans on using it to fake their death's? Freeing themselves from the Crooked man's "chains" and bringing to light his operations? To have our unlikely hero, The Big Bad Wolf, bring an end to his reign of terror and saving the day? That's what I'm suggesting.

  • I haven't read the comics yet, so its lore isn't being taken into account here, which is important considering Telltale seems to have made considerable changes.

So what do you guys think? I've always suspected Swiney, specially after his appearance in ep.4. (A house doctor with more screen time than the main murder victim?) The prescription pills everywhere were a good indication that he was involved with Faith, Lawrence and the mess in their apartment, Crane, Lily and their "thing".

Also, (I may be wrong about the following, but it's a possibility) Lily's body's track marks being a thing just to indicate she was doing mundy drugs was quite irrelevant to have drawn so much attention. Mt theory is that, as part of the plan, Swiney injected her with something, near the time when she was decapitated (by removing her ribbon), to prevent her body from decaying.
They knew it would take a long ass time for him to recover the body and head to reunite them (it wasn't Crane after all, and thankfully Bigby didn't get it to Holly to burn it, lol), so the preservation of the body was vital to the operation. If she was alive for a long period after injected the marks would have regenerated and disappeared, considering the "benefits of being a fable" and a troll. I don't think there no way Lily would ever use up the veins in her arms, like Snow said, however a heavy drug user she was. The whole drug thing was just to mislead us.
The only thing I can't quite explain is the bruise on her neck. It suggests the ribbon was forcefully removed... but if she knew the plan it doesn't make any sense she would resist. I know this is my theory, but maybe you guys have any thoughts on that, huh?

Lastly, the other thing that I believe is linked, but I can't piece together, is the scene in Lawrence's apartment. He not being sure what happened, the prescription pills beside him, the shot, the dagger, the different time period blood splashes... Did he found out about the plan and tried to stop Faith, forcing her to "silence" him or something? Once again, any help is appreciated. Otherwise, I guess we will just have to wait for the final episode to find out.

Anyway, this game is awesome! I've never been so thrilled and involved with a series, including all TV series I've followed, in my life. Telltale is the best game company ever!!! Can't wait for their Game of Thrones title!

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Comments

  • The last episode is ''cry wolf'' which means ''false alarm'', this theory does make sense and its possible.

  • i thought "Cry Wolf" meant people screaming 'Wolf!'

  • Swineheart countlessly says throughout the comics that he was the,"Greatest Doctor Ever to Live," And although it could be true, he was still unable to save one character (I won't mention his name, although he's not appeared in the game yet, if he ever will.). It's hard to say that reattaching Faith's head would bring her back, although I think with the work of a spell (Mighty expense one) It could be possible, I think. I don't know for sure though. There was an instance where Snow White was shot in the head, but survived because of the popularity of her Fable. And Swineheart was the one who patched her up. So he's gotta be good, right?

  • Seem's possible, and I agree on swineheart getting more screen time than 'victim'.

  • edited June 2014

    Yeah, I pointed out that Cry Wolf meant "false alarm" in my theory on the episode titles' giving away the plot.
    Check out: http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/70430/theory-i-think-i-figured-out-twau

    Since I finished ep.2 (when I joined the community) I've been saying that the girls weren't dead, or at the very least Faith wasn't, and that there was no serial killer, worst scenario that Faith had killed Lily in another theory of mine. Now I think I may have finally pieced together what really happened: how Faith faked her death. We just have to wait for the conclusion to see how it will turn out, what Bigby do about Faith and however worked with her (Nerissa is very likely to be involved. She may have stayed "behind" to serve as spy to the girls, and to point Bigby in the Crooked's man direction, like I pointed out in yet another theory) and, at the same time, what he will do with the Crooked man and his lackeys now that he has nowhere else to hide.

    I hope that in the end, Bigby can solve the case without anyone dying, not even Mary. If he saved Lawrence, spared Dum and manage to save/choose to spare everyone in ep.5, that would be awesome. Specially if we get to decide what will happen with everyone involved.

    As TWD showed us, a game doesn't need multiple ending (most of the time bad, neutral and good endings are a stupid, lazy solution) to be satisfying. (TWD season 1 spoiler ahead) When I had Lee tell Clem to save the bullet and leave I felt so fucking relieved. Even in the bitter end I was teaching her to be strong and play smart. I'm hoping that in my TWAU's ending Bigby get to show everyone the is changed, that he's a good, caring person, not a monster. That would be the closer to a happily ever after he can get by now.

  • edited June 2014

    Wow, really good theory.

    But it could also be someone ELSE doing it just to end the CM's control over Fabletown. Someone else killed Faith and Lily just to make the business office of Fabletown notice what has been going on under their noses.

    I think you have figured it out. Good job!

  • I can't answer based on the comics because I haven't read them yet (I plan to after the season ends) and I think that's good since the game is downplaying Bigby and other fables ability. It was from reading Swineheart's entry in the book of fables that the possibility came to mind. I believe he's quite capable of performing such operation successfully.

    It went like this... I knew Faith had to be alive and that it was her head, so she had to find a way to reattach her head, Swineheart was in possession of her head and we never got any feedback from him, he had to be hiding something, and that must be it. They planned to do it. After dropping off what she had in Pudding and Pie she went to Swineheart, had him put herself to sleep and removed her head and had someone place it "with care" for Bigby to find, stuffing the ribbon and ring in her mouth to speed up identification and lead Bigby to the Puding and Pie, where he would find Nerissa (remember the joy in her face when she first saw Bigby) so she could point Bigby in the direction of the Crooked man, through Beauty that he would meet there working to pay off her debt. The mess in room 207 is the part I'm not sure about... I've thought a number of different possibilities... it could have been a way to put Bigby in Crane's tracks as he too was involved with the Crooked man or somehow the girls plan backfired someway and Lily ended up killed (she got caught by Vivian and Georgie or something) and the Crooked man people created the scene to swift the murder's blame to Crane to stop the investigation from uncovering shit on their operations.

    Once again, the possibilities are many, it's hard to feel sure of much. But I think I figured enough of the plot to have some certainties. It will be very rewarding if some of my theories turn our right. I have to thank the community for sharing so many thoughts. Pondering here can be as much fun as playing the game. And it makes the following episodes and its revelations even cooler. :-)

  • interesting theory. i cannot fathom faith could be brought back to life. her story is way too obscure for her to survive. i`d better agree w your theory if tcm or faith were mentioned and swineheart responded.

  • But who would murder 2 fables just to lead Bigby to the Crooked man? It could be that someone took their deaths as an opportunity, but who? Nerissa? How could it have happened? She's so scared. She would have to be working with other people? Who? How could she convince other people to help her? What clues and fact are there to indicate "someone ELSE doing it"?

    The girls faking their deaths in such convincing way, getting free of the ribbon and getting Bigby after their villainous ex boss is the only thing that makes sense to me now. Figuring out how they faked their death was the tricky part. Now that I managed to link the clues and facts, I don't think there's any other way that this part of the story can play out.

    I just hope when we get to see the girls again (or at least Faith, as it's possible Crane really dumped Lily's body down the witching well, making it impossible for Swiney to save her) they are left without a scar in the neck. Or they will have to keep using a ribbon to cover it, lol! How ironic that would be? XD

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    I never read the comics so I know nothing lol but I appreciate the theorie sounds superb and might just be right good shout I would love that ending it sounds so cool

  • I find it very unlikely. A plan to have a head chopped off so that some doctor could reattach it later, with no guaranties that he would hold up his end of the bargain and actually do so... It sounds like a really messy plan, I mean, would you agree to do something like that? Besides, where would they find the money to pay such a service from Swineheart in the first place?

    On the other hand I believe that someone who's not responsible for Faith's murder left the head with ribbon in her mouth in front of the Woodlands to draw Bigby's attention to murders. My guess would be that it was Nerissa.

    As for Swinehearts "screentime" in the game I believe that's due to the fact that he is a regular character in comics.

  • edited June 2014

    Which was the reason I grown to hate the character. I mean, -------- was literally dying and trying to convince Swineheart that he was getting worse, but the arrogant bastard would not accept that he made a mistake while performing a surgery and exam him properly. Even after -------- died, he kept being an arrogant prick.

    I was so pissed when reading those issues! I liked -------- a lot.

  • edited June 2014

    Consider how desperate Faith and Lily could have been. Faith said it herself to Bigby, when he joked about arresting her, "Well, if you have to, do it now. I won't be doing this for much longer". She sure had something planned. She wanted to quit. Try replaying the whole scene with Faith with my theory in mind and see if you still find it so "very unlikely".

    Faith is a badass and Lily a troll and Holly's sister, another badass. They have been living under miserable, humiliating circumstances for who knows how long, and were watching other people fall into the same trap. It seems like Nerissa was new to it, and Beauty was next in line. They figured out a way to get free and at same time put the Crooked man out of business, of course they would take that risk.

    As how they meant to "pay" Swiney for his service, maybe the game answers (girl may have gotten money from Crane or Bluebeard), or maybe they will leave it to our imagination... I could think of a way Faith could pay me, eheheheheh. It's not like it would be any worse than the situation he was helping she get out. But I'm just kidding, there's probably a more fitting explanation for Swiney doing this service.

  • edited June 2014

    It is an very interesting idea, I admit that I really cannot argument why I find it improbable any more though, beside that it feels somewhat "off" to me. I guess Swineheart would accept to do it either for money or out of curiosity to test his skills (or both), though nothing I've read in the comics about him made me believe that he's capable of doing something of this magnitude. It would be very risky for Faith and Lily, but as you say, if they're desperate enough...

    Still, couldn't they incriminate Crooked Man in some other, less extreme, way? Considering the fact that they were involved with him and working under him (though not directly), they surely could have found many evidences against him to send to Bibgy, while hiding out of town until Bigby brings Crooked Man down.

    I don't know, I sort of like this theory of yours and in the context of game it is plausible, but even when I consider the deep shit Faith and Lily got themselves into and desperation that came out of it, it still seems like a too extreme solution to me, like there certainly must be few better and less risky ways to go with the plan.

  • edited June 2014

    What if like I suggested from ep.1, instead of the ribbons severing the girls' heads, the heads are already severed and the ribbons are there magically holding it together? If that's the case then exposing Crooky would automatically mean death to them. Therefore they would only dare to do so if either they were willing to die for it or if they had found a way to survive the process, like my theory implies.

    And thanks for the suggestion that Swiney could accept doing it for the challenge itself. Considering how proud he is of his skills, it's a fitting explanation.

  • Thanks! I will also love it if things turn out that way. It would be as close as "and all lived happily ever after" that we can get.

    And figuring out this much of the plot won't spoil the fun of the game. Like many here, I was absolutely sure Crane was being framed in ep.2, and ep.3 was all about Bigby pointlessly "chasing his tail" but was still fucking awesome, for some the best episode so far (for me ep.1 was the best, but ep3. was a close second). Wanna bet ep.5 will top it 10 times over? :-D

  • edited June 2014

    I think he's too "minor" to suddenly play a major/significant part of the story. Plus, based on the previews, I believe episode 5 will focus more on Crooked Man & co.

    But I still can say that this might happen. I also haven't read the comics, so I don't know that much (though I'm planning to do so). Anyway, nice theory!

  • Surely you've heard of the tale of the boy who cried wolf?

  • Yeah, I don't think she could have survived decapitation. She isn't even that powerful of a fable.

  • Shit, I shouldn't have read that.

  • Fuck! I'm sorry mate, though I did put the spoiler tag.

  • Ah, like that creepy tale about girl who gets married and wears a ribbon till her dying day. That would mean that the hookers are practically already dead or living in limbo if you prefer...

    So, if I get you right, you're referring to the fact that after Crooked Man gets arrested/killed the magic of the ribbons would cease to be and their heads would fall off? That way he would definitely have them in the pocket. The way I see it, there might be plenty of ways to destroy the spell of the ribbon if they decapitate those who wear them, but if their heads are already dismembered and held by ribbons via Crooked Mans magic... now that's some deep shit.

    With that in mind I can fathom the desperation and that plan involving Swineheart. I still don't think that's the case, but your theory actually holds more water than I initially thought. I like it actually, good work!

  • edited June 2014

    So okay this is what I can get behind:

    1. Crooked Man had a photo of Crane and "Snow" and used it to blackmail him.

    2. Faith stole the photo.

    3. Crooked Man was worried that the photo would fall into the hands of Bigby, making him aware of the corruption.

    4. Crooked Man hired Dee and Dum to find the photo.

    5. Dee and Dum can't find the photo. They rummaging through her stuff at the Pudding n Pie, as well as visiting Lawrence & Woody.

    6. Bigby found the photo and Crooked Man's operation is now compromised.

    7. Crooked Man tries to stop Bigby from getting Crane, making Dee and Dum tell him to leave Crane alone.

    8. Bigby doesn't play ball.

    9. Crooked Man tells Mary to deal with it. He lets Bigby live (not sure why).

    10. Crooked Man knows that Crane knows a lot, and therefore sends him off on a plane to Paris.

    11. Bigby finds his way to the Crooked Man's lair where Crooked Man is going to try to make Bigby work for/with him.

    Missing pieces to the puzzle:

    • Why did Lily die and who killed her?

    • Where is Lily's ribbon?

    • Who killed Faith (by Crooked Man's orders)?

    • Who left the heads on the stairs to the Woodlands?

    • What is Vivian's story?

    • Who is Crooked Man's 'slave labor' witch that makes his magic and potions?

    • What's the connection/significance of the Huff n Puffs?

    • Who called Beauty and the Beast?

    • Who pawned Woody's axe and why?

    • Why was Dee's collar bloody in episode 1 at the Trip Trap bar?

    • Why would Nerissa say "I don't have any friends left" if she's aware that Faith and Lily is very much alive/going to be alive soon?

  • Are telltale really going to be able to fit all this in a 90 minute episode?

  • Not in a satisfying way which is the thing that has been bothering me for quite some time now. Many things are left hanging in the air or are simply ignored since episode 1 and Bigby turned out to be a terrible detective in the game actually.

  • I'm sure none of us would complain if it were longer.

  • Crooked Man knew Bigby was going to visit him soon because Jersey told Bigby how to find him at the Lucky Pawn. He obviously told the Crooked Man that Bigby found the mirror piece and would now be able to know where his door is at any given time. I guess TCM made the portal appear in the Central Park on purpose to lure Bigby in (assuming he can control where the portal moves next if he wants to).

    Faith stole a photo from Crane, who then hired the Tweedles to find it. This is revealed on her file at the Tweedles' office.

  • edited June 2014

    Who stole the picture from Faith's small little jewelry box and planted it in the room? Nerissa? Vivian?

    Assuming the picture was indeed in the box. Maybe it was just the Tweedles trying to find it but with no luck? Plausible.

  • The latter seems more probable to me. The Tweedles have the required combination of stupidity and brute force to break open a jewelry box that has no lock.

  • You should have specified they were spoilers from the comics'. I don't much care about spoilers from the game, since I've been playing episodes the moment they are available, but I haven't touched the comics yet... but that's ok, everybody makes mistakes.

  • edited June 2014

    Don't expect to know much from the previews. The last one, along with the trailer, had us believe Bigby and Mary would have a fight in ep.4 and she barely made an appearance. She was on screen for about 5 seconds through the Magic Mirror, lol.

    Swiney is mentioned in ep.2, as being in possession of Faith's head to exam it, made a significant appearance in ep.3's beginning, and a even bigger one in ep.4's introduction. He's by no means a minor character. He's there, just acting under the radar. I would bet my dick he's linked to the prescription pills on Crane's desk (that he's likely using on the prostitutes to play out sleeping Snow) and beside a near death/dead Lawrence (I don't know how that scene at his house played, but I bet Faith got the pills from Swiney and was drugging Lawrence for some reason as part of her plans). Besides, he never bringing up Faith's head again is very suspicious. He having reunited it with Faith's body, which is also missing, to save/revive her as planned is the best explanation out there.

  • Lol, someone suggested that maybe Blood Mary traveled through Faith's box's mirror to pay her a visit or something, but the thought that the Tweedles are that clumsy and dump is so fitting and funny. XD

  • edited June 2014

    Sure there are many questions, my theory tries to answer some and fits with other theories I had before... later I'm planning to piecing a bigger picture theory together, but it will take time and patience.

    But I can tell you now that I've no doubt that Faith's death wasn't Crooky's or anyone's doing. It was her own, planning to be revived by Swiney, to use it to disappear and to bait Bigby into going after her former "boss". She is hiding, probably in plain sight like she did in her fairy tale. She's likely pulling Nerissa's strings. The parts I'm not sure of is how her plan played on Lily's death (if it was fake like hers or if something else happened) and what happened in Lawrence's apartment. These 2 parts are too confusing. I'm still trying to piece the clues. It will be fun to replay the episodes again to see if anything else comes up, before the final episode is released and with that hopefully all the answers we can ever ask for on top of an epic conclusion to one of the best videogame stories ever.

  • edited June 2014

    Yeah, I too was hoping Bloody Mary and Bigby would fight, but it turns out it was a dream if I remember correctly.

    Hmm, makes sense. But how would Telltale fit it all on a 1 hour-ish episode? I don't want them to rush it.

    I just hope Telltale will clear all of this up...

  • Hi Gavin34. Thank you for reading my theory and pointing out some of my mistakes. I'll be sure to edit them tomorrow. But for now I would like to show you a couple of errors in this theory.

    1. There is nothing to suggest Swineheart has any motive or reason to do as OP states. Throughout the game and the graphic novels, Dr. Swineheart is simply the Fabletown doctor, and consistently stayed away from the affairs of Fabletown. He wouldn't prioritize prostitutes over all of Fabletown
    2. Why did the magic mirror pan to the magic dagger instead of Lawrence when asked by Bigby?
    3. If Faith did go through with this theory OP has and got the curse lifted from her, then why did the magic mirror still say "These lips are sealed", when asked about her after her "death"?
    4. I'd be more liable to believe that Faith was hiding in plain sight if she had her Donkeyskin coat. But she doesn't, Toad does.
    5. Faiths body was never discovered, Swineheart was only examining Faiths head. If you saved Lawrence, he is still having a hard time finding closure because the rest of her was never found. Whereas Lilys body was thrown in a pond, and then Crane threw her down the Witching Well.
  • All good points that I agree with.

    I'm having a hard time figuring out this whole puzzle because there are always some flaws in each theory. Really curious what Telltale has in mind.

  • edited June 2014

    I just don't see it. I don't get why Swinehart would do any of that. He's a straight-forward, honest, professional guy. He wouldn't take part in plots and schemes like that.

    Unless he's also a brilliant Oscar-awarded actor.

  • edited June 2014

    First of all, I never claimed to have all the answers, period. And your so called errors are just things that you couldn't fit with my theory. Doesn't it mean that I can't fit, and even if I can't it doesn't mean that if when the game comes out the Swiney working with Faith part turns out right everything else will fall into place somehow. Not to mention that some questions may end up never being answered, and some contradictions may be left over specially after they had to rewrite the story after ep.1. That all said, I'll try to address the things you pointed out.

    1. The girls having their fucking heads severed isn't a reason for the super doctor to help them? And the challenge to his skills, that he's so proud of, isn't motivation enough for him to prove himself once more by reattaching a severed head? Doctor Frankenstein gone way beyond it in his tale.

    2. No idea, do you have any? There was never any mention on why the Mirror chooses the angles he does to show people. So, the dagger is relevant, I know. But as I said, I still could't figure out what happened in the ap. with Lawrence. I know that there are prescription pills that I guess Faith for some reason linked to the plan may have gotten the pills from Swiney as suggested by Lily who had taking the same pills from Crane during his visits to play sleeping Snow. As to why Faith drugged Lawrence. I don't know but his fuzzy memory suggests a spell or some heavy medication. He may have not agreed to their plan or found out about it and tried to stop Faith cause it was too fucking dangerous, or something. I don't know.

    3. True but if she was simply killed by removal of the ribbon, why would it say so too about both her and Lily? Maybe as part of the plan the girls found a way to block the Mirror. They may have had access to some spell that's temporally doing it. The clue in the ep.4's chalk boad may reveal it (nobody figured it yet, but it's tied to magic, and the magic in the ribbons suggests that the ribbons do it). Or maybe they just kept their ribbons and that's enough for the magic in them to block the Mirror. Faith's ribbon and head were given to Swiney to investigate, so they still have it, and after revived she's wearing tied to her lingerie or maybe she shoved it between her boobs, like she did with Bigby's money. And Lily, after her body got retrieved and she was revived, they gave back her ribbon.

    4. She doesn't need her coat if she has access to glamours, period. And we don't even know if she is really hiding in plain sight. I don't know anyone that I suspect to be Faith, I did play with the idea because it sounds cool but maybe she is just fucking hiding and that's it. If Nerissa is in it, working to point Bigby in Crooky's direction as planned and as a informant, Faith may be working in the background.

    5. If they planned to remove her ribbon and leave her head, they had no reason to give up her body, so Swiney kept it and when he later got the head as he requested to exam it, supposedly to help with the case, he reunited both and revived her. Or maybe they had it dumped like Lily's but we never got to find out about it and they retrieved to save her. We don't know anything about Faith's body so why imply anything about it?
      Lily's body is easier to theorize. I have more than one theory, as for Lily I have many possible theories, some with her involved with the plan, some with her not involved, some with her involved but getting caught, by the bad guys, etc, etc. One example is the girls having created the whole scene in room 207 to incriminate Crane as part of their plan, leaving the body there while taking the head to the Woodlands, but the bad guys found the room before Bigby and tried to dump the body. TJ witnessing it may just have saved her as after retrieved and examined, her body and head were left at the withing well room. And before we could know it, it disappeared and Snow wrongfully assumed that a desperate Crane threw it down the well, but actually Swiney, Faith and whoever else is working with them got it, revived her and now she's safe and hiding. Or maybe she was never part of the plan, or maybe she was but still got caught in the crossfire and ended up ass dumped down the well.

    Anyway, like i said, I never claimed to have figured everything out. And even if the parts I'm confident I've figured turn out wrong it doesn't take away any fun of exercising my imagination. Trying to piece the mystery together was a lot of fun to me. I don't really care about being wrong or right. I'm not trying to prove myself to anyone or my ego.

  • He being key for solving the mystery may be a good reason for the writers to make him so "unsuspicious". In big mystery novels the following popular saying fits "it's always the ones we least suspect".

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