Episode 5 trophy analysis

edited June 2014 in The Walking Dead

We already have a great thread for announcing the trophies, but given they're all famous lines... figured this thread was imminent. I'm gonna post what each of the trophies is from... and for the poetry a general idea of what the poem is about and what the line means in that context.
The TWD analysis is left to you guys ;)

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Blood and Iron -
This one is from a rather famous Otto van Bismark speech. Of course, the speech was not in english, but the phrase "Blood and Iron" comes from a line roughly translating to...
"Not through speeches and majority decisions will the great questions of the day be decided - that was the great mistake of 1848 and 1849 - but by iron and blood."
This one is pretty straightforward so I won't bother to give a generally held opinion of the meaning.

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Miles to go -
From a Robert Frost poem, "Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening"

"Whose woods these are I think I know.
His house is in the village though;
He will not see me stopping here
To watch his woods fill up with snow.

My little horse must think it queer
To stop without a farmhouse near
Between the woods and frozen lake
The darkest evening of the year.

He gives his harness bells a shake
To ask if there is some mistake.
The only other sound’s the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake.

The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."

In this poem, there's a general idea of choosing between "society" and the "woods"... or ultimately "life" or "death". The line relevant to us, miles to go until I sleep, is kind of like a quiet affirmation that he would like to stay in the woods, but it is not his time to "sleep" yet... make of that what you will :)

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Right of Frost - From an Emily Dickinson poem "I cannot live with you"

I cannot live with You -
It would be Life –
And Life is over there –
Behind the Shelf

The Sexton keeps the Key to –
Putting up
Our Life – His Porcelain –
Like a Cup –

Discarded of the Housewife –
Quaint – or Broke –
A newer Sevres pleases –
Old Ones crack –

I could not die – with You –
For One must wait
To shut the Other’s Gaze down –
You – could not –

And I – could I stand by
And see You – freeze –
Without my Right of Frost –
Death’s privilege?

Nor could I rise – with You –
Because Your Face
Would put out Jesus’ –
That New Grace

Glow plain – and foreign
On my homesick Eye –
Except that You than He
Shone closer by –

They’d judge Us – How –
For You – served Heaven – You know,
Or sought to –
I could not –

Because You saturated Sight –
And I had no more Eyes
For sordid excellence
As Paradise

And were You lost, I would be –
Though My Name
Rang loudest
On the Heavenly fame –

And were You – saved –
And I – condemned to be
Where You were not –
That self – were Hell to Me –

So We must meet apart –
You there – I – here –
With just the Door ajar
That Oceans are – and Prayer –
And that White Sustenance –
Despair –


This poem is very much like a love poem, but it is... a bit anti-love, describing how they can never be truly "together". The lines we're concerned with...
And I – Could I stand by
And see You – freeze –
Without my Right of Frost –
Death’s privilege?

is about how she cannot die with him, because death is a private and lonely affair. The "Right of Frost" is her own death... and the entire stanza together is that she would see him die, but be denied her own death, instead waiting for it patiently, separated from him.

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Center cannot Hold - From William Butler Yeats' "The Second Coming"

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

The meaning of this poem is... very very hard to paraphrase, but in this case I think that Telltale might be concerned more with the literal. If anyone wants to try to analyze it more completely they are very welcome to it, but I'm trying to keep this as brief as possible so I am not even going to try.
Basically, the world has ended, we are in chaos, anarchy is reigning... and from the ashes of the old world a new savior will be born, but it will not be a good savior (the original is Jesus), but instead a "rough beast". Considering the entirety of S2 is kind of a rebirth of the world so far... makes sense.

However, our line is "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;", which is describing the destruction of the world we know. Standard TWD.

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All the dark night - Walt Whitman's "The Dresser" or "The Wound-Dresser" (alternate titles)

Thus in silence, in dream's projections,
Returning, resuming, I thread my way through the hospitals;

The hurt and the wounded I pacify with soothing hand,
I sit by the restless all the dark night — some are so young;
Some suffer so much — I recall the experience sweet and sad;
(Many a soldier's loving arms about this neck have cross'd and rested,
Many a soldier's kiss dwells on these bearded lips.)

This is a fairly straightforward poem - it's originally about the Civil War, and there have been plenty of Civil War references throughout S2...
but ultimately it's about someone treating the wounded, and remembering the fallen.

"I sit by the restless all the dark night" is basically describing the time spent, wondering if a patient will make it. Or perhaps, also consumed by the things he has seen... both are possible and implied.

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We Slowly Drove & Kindly Stop For me - Both are from Emily Dickinson's "Because I could not stop for Death"
(I guess at least someone in TTG is a big Dickinson fan?)

Because I could not stop for Death –
He kindly stopped for me –
The Carriage held but just Ourselves –
And Immortality.

We slowly drove – He knew no haste
And I had put away
My labor and my leisure too,
For His Civility –

We passed the School, where Children strove
At Recess – in the Ring –
We passed the Fields of Gazing Grain –
We passed the Setting Sun –

Or rather – He passed Us –
The Dews drew quivering and Chill –
For only Gossamer, my Gown –
My Tippet – only Tulle –

We paused before a House that seemed
A Swelling of the Ground –
The Roof was scarcely visible –
The Cornice – in the Ground –

Since then – 'tis Centuries – and yet
Feels shorter than the Day
I first surmised the Horses' Heads
Were toward Eternity –

This is... well just a poem about death and the experience of dying. To keep this short, I won't get into analysis because I don't think it's really necessary past that.

The lines we're concerned with -
"Because I could not stop for Death –
He kindly stopped for me –"
Basically, she was going on just living her life when she died, and did not stop and wait to die, but Death stopped for her and took her. The entire poem paints Death as quite the gentleman... this is mostly the beginning of that.

"We slowly drove – He knew no haste"
Death doesn't hurry, they took a leisurely route to the afterlife, past her life.

And FINALLY...

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All the Dead lie down - Emily Dickinson's “It was not death, for I stood up,”

It was not death, for I stood up,
And all the dead lie down;
It was not night, for all the bells
Put out their tongues, for noon.
It was not frost, for on my flesh
I felt siroccos crawl,
Nor fire, for just my marble feet
Could keep a chancel cool.

And yet it tasted like them all;
The figures I have seen
Set orderly, for burial,
Reminded me of mine,

As if my life were shaven
And fitted to a frame,
And could not breathe without a key;
And I was like midnight, some,

When everything that ticked has stopped,
And space stares, all around,
Or grisly frosts, first autumn morns,
Repeal the beating ground.

But most like chaos,--stopless, cool,
Without a chance or spar,--
Or even a report of land
To justify despair.

This poem is basically about hopelessness, despair, depression.

The line we're concerned about...

It was not death, for I stood up,
And all the dead lie down;

Basically, she's saying that she feels as though she is dead, she must be dead, but she knows she is not - because she is standing.
I don't think (or at least I hope this isn't) just a zombie wink and nod, but instead an emotional state. Hollow, dead INSIDE, but still standing.

Okay, finally done!

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Comments

  • Ugh, the forum killed the formatting on some of the Dickinson poems. If anyone particularly minds it I can go through and edit it, otherwise I might later.

  • Were those leaked?

  • They were uploaded on Playstation Network. If you have a PS3 or PS4 (I personally saw them on PS4 so I'm just guessing they're also on PS3) you can view them.

    So I wouldn't say leaked... just released.

    Rylee posted: »

    Were those leaked?

  • Great Job!

  • edited June 2014

    Really great job putting all these together, and adding the analyses too! The last one gives me hope that Clementine will live at the end of the season.... but she'll be a shell of what she used to be, which may be even worse. And ngl, I think Kenny or Luke may die during the Right of Frost achievement.

    Oh, and "All the Dark Night": someone from the remaining group gets extremely injured and we wait to see of they'll be okay? Or worse: we wait for them to turn. OR WORSE: Clem gets bitten, they chop off the limb of choice, and wait to see if she will turn. That would be brutal.

    And was I the only one who, before even remembering the poems, thought of Nate and his car for the "Kindly Stop For Me" and "Slowly We Drove" achievements? I don't think it would happen but imagine how crazy it would be.

    And I think I'm thinking what others are thinking about "all the dead lie down" - literally, the cold in Wellington causes the walkers to be unable to move and they just lie down or get really slow.

  • Blind SniperBlind Sniper Moderator
    edited June 2014

    I fixed it for you. Don't worry, it's not just you. Markdown is kind of weird like that. Pressing space twice after a line of text gives a new line below without starting a new paragraph.

    I went through and added two spaces to the end of the line of each line on the poem to fix the formatting.

    Nonatastic posted: »

    Ugh, the forum killed the formatting on some of the Dickinson poems. If anyone particularly minds it I can go through and edit it, otherwise I might later.

  • Thank you!
    /hug

    I fixed it for you. Don't worry, it's not just you. Markdown is kind of weird like that. Pressing space twice after a line of text

  • Awesome analysis!

  • HOLY SHIT SHE MAYBE WILL MEET GLEN IN THE TEMINUS AND MAYBE Rick ? DUNNO

    BUT THIS IS GOING TO BE AWESOME

  • edited June 2014

    Possibly, but notice that terminus is not capitalized, implying they mean the word and not the place (I don't watch the show so I can't say whether or not they'd be in the right place geographically, but that could also be a problem)

    ter·mi·nus
    noun
    singular: terminus; plural noun: termini; plural noun: terminuses

    1. a final point in space or time; an end or extremity.
      "the exhibition's terminus is 1962"

    2. BRITISH -the end of a railroad or other transportation route, or a station at such a point; a terminal.
      an oil or gas terminal.

    3.ARCHITECTURE - a figure of a human bust or an animal ending in a square pillar from which it appears to spring, originally used as a boundary marker in ancient Rome.

    Possible definitions of terminus.

    GAMExELITE posted: »

    HOLY SHIT SHE MAYBE WILL MEET GLEN IN THE TEMINUS AND MAYBE Rick ? DUNNO BUT THIS IS GOING TO BE AWESOME

  • It is not the right location geographically. They'd have to go back to Macon. Not to mention the fact that there is no Terminus in the comic/game universe. They're most likely just using the word.

    Nonatastic posted: »

    Possibly, but notice that terminus is not capitalized, implying they mean the word and not the place (I don't watch the show so I

  • What a great read! Great job man, you really hammered the nail in the coffin called my feels.

  • Bloody poems... no god damn movie references.

  • I wouldn't have caught them if they were movies. : p

    CodPatrol posted: »

    Bloody poems... no god damn movie references.

  • I'm also thinking the Right of Frost achievement will probably be a major character death...

    Also, I'm thinking that the silver trophies will most likely correspond to the biggest events. Just guessing :p

    Really great job putting all these together, and adding the analyses too! The last one gives me hope that Clementine will live at

  • Terminus in the achievement sense is not a literal place like in the show. Instead, it is a basically a synonym of "the end of the line."

    So imagine the achivement actually says "reached the end of the line"

  • Oh, and "All the Dark Night": someone from the remaining group gets extremely injured and we wait to see of they'll be okay? Or worse: we wait for them to turn. OR WORSE: Clem gets bitten, they chop off the limb of choice, and wait to see if she will turn. That would be brutal.

    A horrible injury could be in reference to Kenny. They're already worried about possible damages to the brain. Not to mention, Kenny will probably crack someday soon.

    Really great job putting all these together, and adding the analyses too! The last one gives me hope that Clementine will live at

  • That is definitely really true. Maybe All the Dark Night could be Kenny succumbing to his injury? He could get an infection from traveling to Wellington, maybe. Or he could really just break down and we have to handle it, Carol and Lizzie style. (Alternatively, from the comics, Carl and Ben style).

    quinnics posted: »

    Oh, and "All the Dark Night": someone from the remaining group gets extremely injured and we wait to see of they'll be okay? Or wo

  • Thanks for clarifying, I thought that might be the case.

    Tyranniac posted: »

    It is not the right location geographically. They'd have to go back to Macon. Not to mention the fact that there is no Terminus in the comic/game universe. They're most likely just using the word.

  • Thank you for putting all of these together and explaining them, take all of my likes! "The Right of Frost" mentions eyes a lot, and really reminds me of Kenny, it even mentions being broken and "discarded of housewife", so it makes me think Kenny may be dying there. "All the Dark Night" also suggests tending to the wounded, so I'm guessing a lot of the remaining group members will be injured or something, or like others have suggested someone is bitten, and we have to wait it out. The last one is worrying as others have pointed out that it may mean Clem does survive, but would be a hollow empty shell. I kind of hope it means something else, like something having to do with walkers, and that Wellington is actually a safe haven, and that Telltale named it after a poem about death and depression in an ironic way, but they do like to play with our emotions... so I don't think they'll give us a completely hopeful ending, I'm sad to say.

  • No problem! I noticed the references right away when I saw the trophies, for someone who likes poetry an awful lot it's about the same as a "The Cake is a Lie" trophy for a gamer, so I figured I might as well share with people who wouldn't be overly familiar. :)

    I think that whatever happens in Episode 4 and 5 will be infinitely more likely to damage Clem mentally than physically, unfortunately... the general feel of all the poems together is one of loneliness, sorrow, and despair... and with both Kenny and Luke just waiting to be thrown in the line of fire for the sake of an emotional death... who knows if Clem could take the loss of another father figure in her life?

    It's a good catch how often eyes and sight are mentioned in the "Right of Frost" poem... I think that whoever it is, it will probably be a loss that feels like an unbearable separation to Clem, going with the poem, and with how distant she is from the majority of the cast that certainly narrows it down to an itty bitty group that happens to include Kenny.

    Espurr posted: »

    Thank you for putting all of these together and explaining them, take all of my likes! "The Right of Frost" mentions eyes a lot, a

  • MyTearsConfirmedForEpisodeFive

  • I suddenly miss Walter a lot more now. Is it just me? Still, this is quite the extensive research. It's really great and adds deeper meaning to the Ep5 trophies.

  • Ah, glad we have a thread about this now.

    I noticed a pretty constant theme of despair running throughout the trophies. Like Clem is marching towards certain death. But the last achievement, "All the Dead Lie Down," implies that, despite the horrors she will go through, she won't die. She'll just feel like it. Which I guess still sucks.

    On a more shallow level, it sounds like the episode is going to involve a lot of traveling over the course of several days. Hopefully, it'll be like the previous traveling episode, "Long Road Ahead," which remains my favorite episode of The Walking Dead.

  • Until the images are released these achievements don't really tell us much right now.

  • I don't know why (I don't have a single shred of evidence for this) but I think the bulk of the travel might be in Episode 4 if my suspicions are correct about what they'll do with the plot. I think the "drive" and "miles to go" trophies just miiight be purely metaphorical, and that while there will be traveling there will be an awful lot of character drama to fill up our 90 minutes.

    Because arguably, while many of these could possibly be Easter egg type references, "Right of Frost" and "Kindly stop for me" are almost definitely a death IMO. They are just too obviously a callback to very famous lines to be much else without seeming unconnected to the story, and it would be disappointing for them to read as "It is snowy" and "They stopped for someone who's tired". And considering we will probably only get 90 minutes to get everything in, 2 big impactful character deaths will likely take up 1/3 of the time in just displaying them alone, leaving us only an hour to move the plot along.

    Just my guesswork.

    DomeWing333 posted: »

    Ah, glad we have a thread about this now. I noticed a pretty constant theme of despair running throughout the trophies. Like Cl

  • I'm worried for the "We Slowly Drove" and "Kindly Stopped for me". That is one of my favorite poems, and in the context of twdg it makes it sound like they are trying to get to get to Wellington and someone is slowly dying and in a lot of pain. They are trying to push and get there for medical attention, but since they could not stop for death, death kindly stops for them [and in turn their suffering :( ]

  • If these achievements are true, then it would seem that the "terminus" (in "We Slowly Drove") is Wellington, the final point in the season. But, right after the achievement is "Kindly Stop for Me", in which the description is, "Got back on the road". So, it looks like their going to find Wellington destroyed, or infested with walkers. But, I guess we'll see!

  • "Kindly Stop For Me" actually reads "Made your way through."

    Mumbo posted: »

    If these achievements are true, then it would seem that the "terminus" (in "We Slowly Drove") is Wellington, the final point in th

  • edited June 2014

    Different universe, bro.

    GAMExELITE posted: »

    HOLY SHIT SHE MAYBE WILL MEET GLEN IN THE TEMINUS AND MAYBE Rick ? DUNNO BUT THIS IS GOING TO BE AWESOME

  • are you a doctorate of english or what?

  • It's obvious that the first achievement is about Otto Von Bismarck. You thought he was dead? Nope, he's like 200 years old and he becomes the new leader of the group

  • Sarita actually sings the lyrics below in episode 2 and they are pretty similar to the poems above.

    Sire, the night is darker now,
    and the wind blows stronger.
    Fails my heart, I know not how.
    I can go no longer.
    Mark my footsteps my good page,
    tread thou in them boldly:
    Thou shalt find the winter's rage
    freeze thy blood less coldly

  • Oops, my bad.

    "Kindly Stop For Me" actually reads "Made your way through."

  • edited June 2014

    Nice thread!

    "Because I could not stop for Death –
    He kindly stopped for me –" is really interesting, maybe Clem meet someone who accepts to drive her to Wellington (or the group find a car) but Clem doesn't know that they are each miles they travel bring them closer and closer to death.

    "Stopping by the woods on a snowy evening" might be a situation where Clem is between life or death. The woods could symbolize death and the village is where everyone who passed away is (Lee, her parents, Duck...). Clem would like to stay in the woods ("the woods are lovely, dark and deep x2), to die but she remembers she has promises to keep (pinky swear? Saving someone?) and miles to go before she sleeps (she has her lifetime before she dies).

    "Right of Frost" might be a death of a character. He/she dies alone and Clem cannot save him/her because it's not her time yet (maybe it has some sort of link with the previous poem), maybe a Carley/Doug (Kenny/Luke?) situation where she can save one and condemned the other. It could also be a Lee dream, so the poem would mean that Lee and her can never be together if she is alive (I cannot live with You -
    It would be Life –
    And Life is over there) so they "must meet apart" in the dream, for example.

    Episode 5 will most likely be the darkest of S2. The poems have recurent themes like: despair, losing hopes, death, separation... Like a log of people already said, Clem emotional state might not be the best in this episode.

    Anyway, it was my "analyse" of some of the poems. Hope you liked it even though I am not good at it :)

  • No, I'm actually a bachelors student majoring in both Mathematics and Video Game Design.

    But I read quite a bit and have taken literature classes. :)

    are you a doctorate of english or what?

  • I chuckled.

    Bubadoo posted: »

    It's obvious that the first achievement is about Otto Von Bismarck. You thought he was dead? Nope, he's like 200 years old and he becomes the new leader of the group

  • You did a good job! Don't be hard on yourself.

    CatySky posted: »

    Nice thread! "Because I could not stop for Death – He kindly stopped for me –" is really interesting, maybe Clem meet someone

  • Well the images are released now! :P

    ShaneWalsh posted: »

    Until the images are released these achievements don't really tell us much right now.

  • lol, me too, but i am bit on game programming.

    Nonatastic posted: »

    No, I'm actually a bachelors student majoring in both Mathematics and Video Game Design. But I read quite a bit and have taken literature classes.

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