• faith and Nerissa were not the same person at first

    after faith left you the night she got beat up something happened

    Nerissa got killed and faith took her identity and Glamoured Nerissa head to look like hers

    so by the time bigby and snow discoverer the head the switch had already taken place

    • wow well my theroy is wrong then

    • As the example of Lilly shows, glamours wear off after the glamoured person gets killed. Faith couldn't have glamoured Nerissas head as her own to switch! Yes it's not reported what happens to the head afterwards and the glamour only wears off after some time but don't you think someone would have noticed a head switching to a completly different person? And if not it would be a very loose end of storytelling..."and the head disappeared and everything worked out...somehow!"

      • Actually just the opposite. The glamour on Lily's body stays in effect until Bigby discovers it and opens the glamour tube. Only then does she revert back to her original form.

        • I'd more chalk it up to plot convenience than cause and effect. It's not like someone was going to come running to Bigby and tell him that the glamour fell apart and that it was a troll glamoured as Snow. The player had to be there for the transformation and what better time to do it than after you finished inspecting the body? The opening of the glamour tube and the change back wasn't immediate anyway, so it never struck me as a thing.

      • in the final scene, bigby remembers swinehart saying "there needs to be more test" talking about the head

    • Sounds very plausible to me. The plot thickens!!!

    • Remember the reason why the woodcutter had hit Faith? It was because she didn't remember him. So it was probably Nerissa who took the appearance of Faith at the beginning, not the opposite!

  • It's a photo from before the murders most likely.

  • So, wait, Georgie killed Nerissa while she was glamoured as Faith?

    • yes and faith cleverly slips away just like she did in the fairy tail lol

      • In the fairy tale, Lawrence sees her for her real self even through the disguise. He would probably notice Faith glamoured as Nerissa. Besides, why would Faith leave Lawrence for no real reason and see him again at the end without so much as flinching. Nerissa didn't even seem to notice Lawrence. The story just doesn't make sense if it's Faith glamoured as Nerissa.

    • I think Faith was already dead before episode 1 , Nerissa pretended to be Faith to point Bigby in the right direction

      • I think that's the simplest and most "accurate" hypothesis. Nerissa-as-being-Faith (thus, Faith being alive because Nerissa was killed instead because she was thought to be Faith by Georgie) is simply refuted by the Glamour wearing off after the its wearer's death. It MIGHT still be possible if it takes a while and nobody would notice the head to be turned into Nerissa. But, due to balance of probabilities that seems unlikely.

        So Nerissa glamoured as Faith to get to know Bigby (because, you know, otherwise they "suffer in silence"), glamoured back and put the head of the long-being dead real Faith at the stairs.

        • But then you have to remember that Swineheart is still running more tests... I seriously believe Swineheart has a huge part in this. Maybe he knows the truth, maybe not. If we see him twice in the story, you would think he would mention Faith's head at least once, as it is so integral.

        • Glamour doesn't wear off. It's deactivated, as shown twice in the game with Snow/Lily and Rachel/Greenleaf. And for people saying that there's no correlation between opening the glamour and the glamour's effect stopping because there was a delay with when Bigby deactivated Lily's glamour then it was most likely because that specific glamour was faulty. It was established that Lily's glamour was a cheap and faulty one, so that explains the delay of the transformation. Now in Greenleafs case, her glamour transformed her instantly because she personally worked hard on that one seeing as it was for her own safety and protection.

          • What difference does it makes if wears off or is deactivated? Isn't the result –the person not being glamoured anymore– not the same? And if Swineheart does runs some tests, shouldn't he finished by the time of Episode 5? I mean, if there IS something about the head, let's say the glamour is being "deactivated" atfer a while, Swineheart would have informed Bigby, wouldn't he?

            • Why would whoever glamoured Nerissa's head as Faith deactivate the glamour tube? Yes it would turn off the glamour effect if it was deactivated.

              Your saying that if the person being glamoured died, their glamour would go away after some time. That's not true. Bigby opened Lily's glamour tube which in turn changed her appearance back to her true form.

              • Ah, now I understand what you mean with "deactivating". It's not some automatic proccess, it has to be done manually by something or someone. So, just to be absolutely clear: Death does NOT mean the glamour will "go away", it MUST be deactivated by someone nevertheless?

                • From what were shown in the game, yes. The two experiences we have with glamour are when Bigby opens the glamour tubes to deactivate them. I don't know about the comics though. I don't think it was ever established even in the dialouge between characters what happens to the glamour after someone dies for some time

                  -edit- well besides the fact that lily was dead before she was found. so i guess we can say that's what happens: nothing.

    • so they swapped? so faith is still alive??

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    Kunny BANNED

    " Your Ribbon..."

    "Do you like it?"

    Faith and Nerissa's lines/hand gesture are the same, she is obviusly trying to say it to Bigby.

    "I feel like we've met before" - "You are trying to place me."

  • I don't know, maybe Nerissa was the one who died and faith is just glamoured as Nerissa? Lol, this is too much for my brain to handle. :P

  • First off, it was HEAVILY hinted Nerissa is Faith at the end of the episode. Otherwise there wouldn't have been so much emphasis put on the similarities in how they spoke.

    Second, it's unsure if it's Faith or Nerissa that died but they both existed. Just it seems we only ever actually got to meet one.

  • It doesn't make sense that Faith is still alive. Georgie thought that he killed Faith and Nerissa was in the room at the time. That would mean that Faith and Nerissa were glamored as each other. That's way too convoluted and stupid. I don't think Bigby ever met Faith. She was dead before Episode 1 even started. When she died, Nerissa glamored herself as Faith and met Bigby to make it crystal clear what Faith's occupation was and to make Bigby care about her death.

    • I don't think so. There is one thing that pretty much confirms that it was Faith and not Nerissa in the end. When Bigby started to put it together and got flashbacks of Faiths and Nerissas dialogues there is also dialogue told by Bufkin saying: "would hide her beauty so she could escape his kingdom", which refers to Faiths fable story. If it wasn't Faith, why would that line be there?

      • It doesn't make sense anyway. She hid her beauty by posing as a beautiful woman?

        • So what, we should just ignore it? She hid herself again, that is the point.

          • In any case, the Nerissa as Faith theory is rock solid. It explains everything, has a plausible motive, and no holes other than that final flashback sequence. Meanwhile, the Faith as Nerissa theory has no motive (why would Faith need to hide once the Crooked Man was taken care of?), and doesn't make sense (why would Nerissa be glamoured as Faith? It would have to be done before she died since Georgie thought he was killing Faith). It's just lazy writing to leave us with a mystery that has no motive and requires additional information to make sense of and I refuse to believe that's what Telltale has done. Maybe Nerissa as Faith is wrong, but I think Telltale has given us all the pieces we need to get the correct answer.

            I was just looking at that final transcript, and you're right that it implies that Faith is still alive. Here's my explanation. We're basically hearing Bigby's thoughts and recollections. By the end of the episode, Bigby definitely thinks that Nerissa is Faith. But what if he's wrong? It's happened before. He thought Crane was the killer at one point, for example. Bigby knows something is up, but he cares about Faith. Perhaps his wishful thinking is clouding his better judgement.

            • Well if that's the case, just Bigby's wishful thinking then Telltale pulled pretty lame thing on us. And I would call Nerissa as Faith theory anything but rock solid, but I don't really care about it that much anymore to argue and defend my convictions in detail.

              I'll just say that it has been proven that "Faith" - the girl whose head we find was killed after Bigby's encounter with Faith at Woodsmans apartment, so she haven't been killed before episode even started as that theory about it being Nerissa suggests. Faith was definitely alive at that point and Lily's note thanked Faith, not Nerissa for covering that shift at Woodsman for her. This seems pretty solid to me. Besides whole fable story of Faith regards the fact that she hides her identity and escapes.

              • It's not proven that the girl died after the first scene of the game. Where are you getting that? The blood? That wasn't from the head, but from the person who tried to leave it there (in my opinion, Nerissa)

                Also, Nerissa's speach at the end had to do with finding justice for the unfortunates that didn't have a voice. In the context of the greater Fabletown society, it was social commentary, but it was also quite literal for Nerissa and the other girls, who couldn't speak for themselves.

                Also, story wise, Nerissa pretending to be Faith who's already dead in the beginning clears up the coincidental convenience of Bigsby just happening to run into the first victim.

                • I'm not basing it on the blood, I have never mentioned that, I really love when people jump to conclusions like this.

                  Replay the game, pay attention to all information about Faith, especially in episodes 1 and 2 and work out the timeline, you obviously won't believe me otherwise and I'm too lazy to get into explaining the evidences for the hundredth time and list every single thing out right now.

            • I believe the simplest answer is correct, Nerissa impersonated Faith. What makes this NOIR is that Bigby, only briefly, developed an immense rapport with 'Faith', and a large part of his motivation during the ensuing investigation was to bring this woman he had a momentary yet what he himself considered a very touching moment vengeance. Therefore, when Nerissa blows the deal, all that meaning Bigby had invested in that moment actually meant nothing as Faith was already dead. Pretty soul-crushing, and exactly how good noir should be.

            • Faiths motive for being Nerissa is that she didn't want to take the fall for Nerissa's confession. At the end of episode 5 I think Nerissa(who in this theory is Faith) is telling the truth other than lying about her identity. She put the real Nerissa's head(which was glamoured as Faith's) on the doorstep to truly get help since her plan to escape the Pudding N Pie failed. She wanted to take down the Crooked Man because she thought that was the only way to become free. I don't think her or any of the girls knew that their true freedom could only be obtained through Vivian's death. Which is why Faith fabricated the plan to bring down Crane which was one of Crooked Man's allies. Faith could of asked Nerissa to fill in for her one night which explains why Nerissa would be glamoured as her. Then when Nerissa (glamoured as Faith) comes back she is met by Georgie and gets killed. I'm pretty sure Faith stays glamoured as Nerissa to play it safe and also because she doesn't want to be questioned by Bigby.

        • She only hid he beauty to escape in the original story. In this one, she hits her identity so she can escape. Pull it together.

      • If it wasn't Faith, why would that line be there?

        To confuse you? The truth is, I don't know why that one line is there, but it would be silly to let one line dissuade you from believing what otherwise makes complete sense. There would be no purpose at all in Faith pretending to be Nerissa or glamoring Nerissa's dead body to look like Faith. Just makes no sense.

        It does, however, make complete sense that Nerissa would be cheesed off by the wanton murder of her two best friends and basically work around the enchantment on the ribbon to "call the cops", by meeting Bigby while glamored as Faith, getting him to care, and then presenting a mystery that Fabletown couldn't ignore. If she had simply dropped the body on the doorstep, they wouldn't have a clue where to begin looking, as nobody knew this obscure Fable. Nerissa also wouldn't want to be obviously involved, because she knows her head would just be next on the chopping block.

        I don't know...I just think you're reaching for something that isn't there. This is the noir version of Occam's Razor. It's not an Agatha Christie ending where the two thousand red herrings basically mean any character could have done it.

        • It wouldn't be added into the narrative if it wouldn't make any sense, you simply don't just put any line for the sake of it in the most important scene, and especially not in the moment of protagonists epiphany in the crime investigation genre. It is a most basic, schoolbook rule when writing a story.

          And there would be purpose for it. There would be purpose for both possibilities, I am to tired and lazy to post again, so you'll forgive me for not giving detailed explanation of the theory right now, but you can find it in several threads on this forum. I've found that theory that it was Faith actually fits better and has less plot holes than the one where it was Nerissa.

          • I agree with Cthu... Him and I had almost the same theory and while the intentions of why Faith glamoured as Nerissa can be argued as good or evil, there is no doubt that Faith is Nerissa at the end of the game... I just used that evidence to work backwards in the mystery; you know where it ends, so work yourself back to the beginning. And I feel that TellTale would make it this way on purpose. Not only to ignite replay value, but to leave players with an underlying mystery that they thought wasn't even there in the 1st playthrough... check out my theory on the 3rd page, it might convince you guys of this theory, or not lol but it's worth a look... :) If any questions come up toward it, I'll answer them asap lol

            • There's considerable doubt seeing how many people disagree and think Nerissa was pretending to be Faith.

              I'm in the Faith was already dead camp, but the evidence is compelling for your assumption as well.

              I think that's what makes the ending really great. It can go either way.

      • EDIT: Ignore.

  • Oh, so Bigby never actually met Faith? As in the Faith he had met was Nerissa all along? That's what makes the most sense imo.

    • It wasn't Nerissa all along.

      • Well, it would be GREAT if TTG actually EXPLAINED the ending...

        • I posted my theory why I think it was Faith on second page of this thread.

          Still some things don't fit either way...

          The question here is, who stole the photo, Faith or Nerissa and which one betrayed the other girls by telling Georgie about the plan? If Faith at the end of episode 5 talked about herself in third person and pretended to be Nerissa then it was Nerissa who told Georgie about the plan, but why the hell would she glamour herself as Faith if she expected Faith to get punished? Maybe she didn't and got herself killed by accident, though it is hard to imagine. And did Faith knowingly let Nerissa get herself killed then? One thing is certain, there were three people present at that point - Faith, Nerissa, and Georgie.

          But the way she tells it seems like she genuinely is the one who told Georgie about the plan as she cries because she had to rat her friends out (or she simply acts very good), so if it was Nerissa who stole the photo why would Georgie kill Faith? And what if Faith figured out that she screwed up and by stealing the photo and told Georgie about it... but wouldn't he know that the girl who he was killing wasn't really Faith or was Faith glamoured as Nerissa at that point and deliberately set Nerissa up to get killed? It doesn't strike me like she would set Nerissa to get killed, but doesn't she has a least bit of honor and compassion to save her friend by saying "I'm the real Faith"? Maybe it happened to fast and she didn't get to react and after the murder she figured "what's done is done, better to keep this charade and pose as Nerissa from now on"...

          Too many questions, I hate these stupid plot twists in the end. TTG really should have explained the goddamn ending.

        • If TTG explained the ending, there wouldn't be a season 2 or DLC :D

        • I like the mystery it leaves, it's a great reminiscence of the Fable series as a whole.

      • Or it was. The evidence points either way.

        • Replay the game if you have time, okay? Actually I'll probably do so myself, it will be great experience to play entire game in one or two takes now, when there are no more month-long pauses between the episodes.

    • Idk. If Faith was actually dead before the story started, then Faith technically had those bruises on her face before she went to the Woodsman's apartment which I don't buy. I don't remember any of the Woodsman's interrogation suggesting she came in with bruises. And Nerissa would have had to get hold of Faith's coat. The similarities in speech is suspicious, though they were friends so speech and mannerisms can replicate between them. I honestly feel bad for Lily, few care for the troll.

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