FAITH\NERISSA: SOLVED.

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Comments

  • No - he's saying that real Faith got bruised by the Woodsman, then Nerissa used a glamour of Faith that was made AFTER she got her bruising - e.g., if the glamour tubes work by getting hair / photos / other material from the original (as with Lily), then that material was taken from Faith after the meeting with Woody. So the resultant glamour takes on Faith's image at the time the material was taken, i.e. with all the bruises. Nerissa is then killed, looking like Faith with the brusing.

    For the Nerissa theory to work, Nerissa would have had to have seen how the real Faith's head was bruised, then got Woody to hit her in exactly the same way....which seems unbelievable.

  • It does? Wow. Then we actually did Meet Faith!

    It would be cool if Faith were alive, but it can't be true. The special statistics at the end of the game confirms that Faith is "

  • There are TWO things that are TOO HARD to swallow on that:

    1) GEORGIE admitted to have killed both. He actually say he killed FAITH and LILY. How the hell would Faith in such a short time convinced Nerissa to glamour herself as Faith, WITH the black Eye and stand there waiting for Georgie to kill her without any reaction? He couldn't have killed Nerissa and then Faith glamoured the head only, because Georgie described how he killed both, so Georgie went after FAITH. Unless Faith have the power to see the future, there's no way to pull that kind of coup in so short time.

    2) The already mentioned Black Eye, present in the decapitated Faith. Black Eyes can't be made post mortem, but if Nerissa disguised herself as Faith she could glamour that and PRETEND it was the drunk Woodsman doing.

    So check the timeline. Faith appear at the Woodsman, say she will be in a hour in Bigby's Office, Her head appear in the Woodlands at the time, Lily is then called at the next morning to attend Crane, after which she is killed. During the same day, at night her body is disposed, and TJ by accident found it, Meanwhile Nerissa is at the Open Arms in room 201 with "Mr. Knight". Mysteriously the picture EVERYONE is looking for appear in the crime scene.
    And the next night Nerissa being bullied by Georgie, find a way to send Bigby to the Hotel. Couple of hours later she confirm she knew it was Crane's Room.

    Besides, I don't know from where people take that Faith was cunning and manipulative. Does the stuff in Larry's apartment give any idea of such behavior? She used to appear there now and then, and took care of him, and suddenly disappear skipping her weekly visit?

    And her coat with a note to Lawrence? Like it was a goodbye. How would she know Georgie was pulling the ribbon beforehand?

    Nah, the only thing that make sense is that Nerissa, the REAL one that tried to pull the strings to fish a prince (pun intended), and pretended to be someone she wasn't in her fable, set up the Faith occurrence in Woody's apartment.

  • Maybe she is pissed that Nerissa opened her big mouth, and then she got herself killed? Crane made Lily go to 207, the morning after the head was dropped. The same day Nerissa went to 203 with a client. Being accomplished to Both Faith and Lily she might have taken the pictures from the hiding place AND Lily's key to 207, which would explain too how she could get Lily's head, to drop it at the Woodlands. Why Georgie doesn't kill her when is blatant that SHE stole and deposited the heads in Bigby's door I can't get.

    how is it that then Nerissa was glamoured as Faith in order for Georgia to kill Nerissa thinking she was really Faith? I b

  • I don't think anyone knew "Nerissa" dropped the heads at anyone's doors. All anyone knows is that Bigby found out about the murders. No one thinks the girls told him because of the spell.

    OptimusJ posted: »

    Maybe she is pissed that Nerissa opened her big mouth, and then she got herself killed? Crane made Lily go to 207, the morning aft

  • But the Little Mermaid wasn't manipulative and she DIED in her own Fable rather than hurt someone else.

    OptimusJ posted: »

    There are TWO things that are TOO HARD to swallow on that: 1) GEORGIE admitted to have killed both. He actually say he killed F

  • It is not a short time between the time that Nerissa told Georgie about photos and the first death. In our final dialog with Nerissa (at the very end of episode 5) she said she told Georgie about their plans and begged for mercy; it wasn’t until later that night after Georgie had spoken to the Crookedman that he decided to make an example out of Faith and Lily.

    This should allow for the time needed to make the switch.

    OptimusJ posted: »

    There are TWO things that are TOO HARD to swallow on that: 1) GEORGIE admitted to have killed both. He actually say he killed F

  • Neither is she a killer or manipulative. She can't TELL anything to Bigby in the game. And she can HIDE things pretty well, making people look to the other side in her fable. She give every clue she can, while concealing the deep knowledge of everything that happened. She witnessed Faith's death, then she does the ONLY manipulation in the entire game which is pretending to be the dead friend, and after that it's only hide and give clues; Lily disappear, she go check in 207, and leave the picture there.

    Another clue that Georgie had ALREADY done the deed at the Woodsman is how "Faith" ALREADY THERE draw attention to the ribbon that is found in her mouth later. Something Nerissa could grab when Georgie killed Faith right in front of her, but couldn't with Lily, that she found LATER.

    vynn007 posted: »

    But the Little Mermaid wasn't manipulative and she DIED in her own Fable rather than hurt someone else.

  • edited July 2014

    How the hell would Faith in such a short time convinced Nerissa to glamour herself as Faith, WITH the black Eye and stand there waiting for Georgie to kill her without any reaction?

    In this picture, Faith and Nerissa are alone and Faith looks angry. Georgie is not present, so it's possible they agreed to switch places then.

    http://i.imgur.com/ldlTqfp.jpg

    Unless Faith have the power to see the future, there's no way to pull that kind of coup in so short time.

    Nerissa would need even more foresight to predict that Bigby (someone she never met and only heard rumours of as being bad and unhelpful) would turn up and help her at Woody's apartment. What if the Woodsman did not get angry? What if Toad never called Bigby? What if Bigby felt like sleeping in? What if Bigby didn't feel like helping her?

    Faith didn't need any future-seeing powers. She meets Nerissa, finds out Nerissa betrayed her and that Georgie is after her so she convinces Nerissa to make the switch. And Faith knew Bigby was decent and might help her because they actually met at Woody's apartment.

    Black Eyes can't be made post mortem, but if Nerissa disguised herself as Faith she could glamour that and PRETEND it was the drunk Woodsman doing.

    This does not contradict the Nerissa sacrifice. Faith could have guilt-tripped Nerissa into glamouring herself as post-bruised Faith.

    Besides, I don't know from where people take that Faith was cunning and manipulative.

    Actually I think there are plenty of circumstances.

    1) In the original story she uses a glamour deception to escape her father.

    2) She also had no qualms attacking the Woodsman even when he was down with an axe in his brain.

    3) She initiated the plan to steal the Crane-Snow photos.

    4) She left a note at her husband's place - "Please don't look for me." This shows she was planning something.

    http://i.imgur.com/9mtwUQ0.jpg

    Nerissa, the REAL one that tried to pull the strings to fish a prince (pun intended), and pretended to be someone she wasn't in her fable, set up the Faith occurrence in Woody's apartment.

    So the only reason Nerissa went to the Woodsman apartment for the sole reason to "fish a prince"? Faith has an actual reason to be there - Lily asks Faith to cover her at the apartment. And yes, Lily uses the word apartment in the note.

    http://i.imgur.com/nGoVhrP.jpg

    OptimusJ posted: »

    There are TWO things that are TOO HARD to swallow on that: 1) GEORGIE admitted to have killed both. He actually say he killed F

  • edited July 2014

    1) Nerissa could have sacrificed herself, like she does in her fairytale.

    2a) The Case for Faith Faith and Nerissa glamoured as each other after the incident with the Woodsman but before Georgie came back with the kill order. So, Faith really was beat up by the Woodsman, then Nerissa glamoured as the injured Faith, then Georgie killed Nerissa.

    ...The flaw in this explanation is that Georgie has to be dumb enough to not wonder why Faith and Nerissa both have the exact same bruises (since Lily's needle marks imply that injuries carry through cheap glamours). However, Georgie's already dumb enough not to work out that, you know, maybe it was the other witness to the crime who's been placing heads and screwing things up for the Crooked Man Gang. So at least it's in character.

    Edit: Of course, Faith could have lied to Bigby and was hiding while Georgie killed Nerissa, in which case, Georgie wouldn't have seen her.

    2b) The Case for Nerissa The Nerissa-Survives theory depends on Nerissa glamouring herself as Faith after Faith has been beat up. So the key question is, who beat up Faith? It can't be Woody, because the whole point is that the woman we meet at the start and end of the game are the same person. It can't be Lawrence, because he's been nearly-dead for like a week.

    It's unlikely to be Georgie because of the bruise on her right arm, which looks like it was made by a large hand and so probably by Woody. Ignoring that, Nerissa says that Georgie killed Faith right as she entered the room, so it doesn't seem like he beat her first. Ignoring that, Woody admits to hitting Faith.

    Ignoring that: The bruises and inconclusive, Nerissa never says Georgie didn't beat Faith, Woody only hit that woman once or a few times.

    Then here is what must have happened: Georgie was under pressure to find that photo but couldn't discover where it was stashed. So when he saw Faith come in, before killing her, he tried to beat the answer out of her--nothing. He decapitated her, and now Nerissa, unwilling to accept that her friend died while she did nothing, makes her plan to involve Bigby. She takes Faith's cloak and the letter for Lawrence out of honor for Faith, glamours herself as the dead girl, and goes out to make a disturbance. Why disguise herself as Faith? Because going to see the Sheriff could get her killed, too, and she's got something to live for. Because before investing in this plan, she has to check that Bigby's up to the job.

    2c) Or maybe you think Nerissa is less altruistic than that. If she's in Fabletown, then she's already murdered the prince from her fairytale, she lied at that trial, she got her friends killed. When Bigby posits that she only told Georgie to protect them, she says "...Yeah." Yeah right. Nerissa would have done anything to keep from fading away, not in her fairytale, not in Fabletown. Things happen the same as in 2b, but with a bit more selfish intent.

    OptimusJ posted: »

    There are TWO things that are TOO HARD to swallow on that: 1) GEORGIE admitted to have killed both. He actually say he killed F

  • Hmmm.. I just checked something. At first I thought that someone ELSE besides Toad called Fabletown security, because the phone upstairs was OUT, but Toad would have used the one downstairs close to his apartment. But I just saw that closer phone is BROKEN. So could have been Toad alright. Until now I considered a coincidence that Toad have called Bigby, and that "Faith" did called beforehand to trigger her plan to make Bigby care.

  • Yes. Toad called Bigby, as he says in this screenshot:

    http://i.imgur.com/5OgL5Gu.jpg

    OptimusJ posted: »

    Hmmm.. I just checked something. At first I thought that someone ELSE besides Toad called Fabletown security, because the phone up

  • But the person at the end of the game is the same person with the Woodsman in scene one. So is your suggestion that Faith was already dead when Nerissa posed as faith at Woody's? That theory is definitely a popular one. I hoped it myself, but then I couldn't rectify the mirror not being able to show Bigby Faith. If it was the real Faith who was dead there'd be no reason and no spell protecting Faith's appearance and therefore she should be visible to the mirror.

    The only thing about that I thought possible was that maybe Nerissa was still posing as Faith at that time and somehow if a spell was being used to make someone else look like another person, even if she were dead, that the mirror would be thrown off. That's a little confusing though and something the viewer has to make up for themselves so I'm still stuck with that question.

    If Faith was really the one dead at the beginning, whether she was really at Woody's or not, why couldn't the mirror produce her visage?

    OptimusJ posted: »

    Neither is she a killer or manipulative. She can't TELL anything to Bigby in the game. And she can HIDE things pretty well, making

  • Faith disguises herself to escape marrying her dad, but I wouldn't call that manipulative or evil. She's angry at Woody because he beat her up so she kicks him. Also not manipulative or cunning, just someone who is angry and also probably knows it won't do anything worse to him. If she initiated the plan to steal the photos, it was so she could save, not only herself, but the other girls as well. Faith telling her husband not to look for her could also mean since she was going to be posing as Nerissa, he wouldn't be able to find her anyway. I also find it difficult to believe she'd just stand there knowingly, as Nerissa, while her husband, depressed and on the verge of suicide, stood at the Crooked Man's funeral. She clearly cares for Lawrence because she was going to make sure he was ok every few days before disappearing. In that case it makes more sense that she was actually killed. She tells Lawrence not to look for her because she doesn't want him caught up in the violence that MIGHT find her if she can't convince someone that the situation is bad. Then, the situation gets even worse when Georgie kills her, she stops visiting Lawrence and he ends up trying to kill himself.

    I'm not saying anyone is wrong, because I don't know the answer either, but it seems to me that either choice has plenty of evidence that make it more likely it's the other choice. It's a conundrum and... my ribbon just fell off... oops, there goes my head.

    How the hell would Faith in such a short time convinced Nerissa to glamour herself as Faith, WITH the black Eye and stand there wa

  • I think I can get behind what you're saying. If Faith were glamoured as Nerissa, based on Lily's scars showing through he disguise as Snow, we'd still be able to see Faith's bruises through her disguise. As shown by the game though, it wasn't that Georgie was too dumb to notice they had the same marks... it was that they didn't. That would seem to indicate that it couldn't be Faith glamoured as Nerissa through the game.

    Signyl posted: »

    1) Nerissa could have sacrificed herself, like she does in her fairytale. 2a) The Case for Faith Faith and Nerissa glamoured

  • The Mirror couldn't find Lily either after she was dead, so the Mirror isn't an indicator of life, just that "these lips are sealed", that the person you're looking for wore a ribbon.

    vynn007 posted: »

    But the person at the end of the game is the same person with the Woodsman in scene one. So is your suggestion that Faith was alre

  • Either way, She had to be fast healing: Faith would have had to recover after meeting with Woody before Georgie noticed, or Nerissa had to recover quickly after hurting her leg before we meet her at the P&P. Admittedly, Nerissa has the edge since she's a more popular Fable and had a longer time to heal.

    I wrote the bit about Nerissa as a best case scenario, not as something I really believed. But see, I want to believe Nerissa survived, and it's starting to grow on me. I still think the evidence better fits Faith, despite myself.

    vynn007 posted: »

    I think I can get behind what you're saying. If Faith were glamoured as Nerissa, based on Lily's scars showing through he disguise

  • I can't get past how the mirror couldn't see Faith at the beginning if Faith wasn't really dead.

    Signyl posted: »

    Either way, She had to be fast healing: Faith would have had to recover after meeting with Woody before Georgie noticed, or Neriss

  • Someone seriously ought to make a masterpost of all the current clues... maybe when I'm less tired.

    Anyway, the Mirror can't scry anyone who's been touched by the ribbon curse, at least before Vivian died. We know this because if you find out about Lily by interrogating Woody, and then ask the Mirror about her, it says "Some things cannot be revealed. Once again, these lips are sealed."

    vynn007 posted: »

    I can't get past how the mirror couldn't see Faith at the beginning if Faith wasn't really dead.

  • He decapitated her, and now Nerissa, unwilling to accept that her friend died while she did nothing, makes her plan to involve Bigby. She takes Faith's cloak and the letter for Lawrence out of honor for Faith, glamours herself as the dead girl, and goes out to make a disturbance.

    You say this is a case for Nerissa, but I think it's actually against. Because if it is true, it means Nerissa started walking in public as a dead girl. She lets lots of people (Woody, Toad, Bigby) see Faith isn't dead. If Georgie heard that the girl he just murdered was walking around town causing a disturbance, he would be incredibly suspicious.

    Signyl posted: »

    1) Nerissa could have sacrificed herself, like she does in her fairytale. 2a) The Case for Faith Faith and Nerissa glamoured

  • Faith tricking Nerissa to cover for her sounds more plausible, but that's just me. Since we never really knew Nerissa in this theory we have no indication on what she would do in this situation since she was never mentioned before her appearance.

    how is it that then Nerissa was glamoured as Faith in order for Georgia to kill Nerissa thinking she was really Faith? I b

  • Maybe Vivian was the Little Mermaid, and Nerissa is actually the one with the original ribbon, controlling all the others...

    :)

  • This is irrelevant, but I love your avatar.

    Onmens posted: »

    Maybe Vivian was the Little Mermaid, and Nerissa is actually the one with the original ribbon, controlling all the others...

  • That's okay, my post was prettty irrelevant too.
    And thanks.

    btw. There's a Nerissa in The Merchant of Venice. Anybody dissected that play yet? :P

    This is irrelevant, but I love your avatar.

  • ok yes
    1) ok its not confirmed, so the fuck died there??? a Mundie?? crane took that girl and glamoured her to look like snow to have sex with and again whos blood is it??
    2) and didn't she say it was at the pudding n pie???
    3) and he did say he didn't do it, I did believe it. and it still comes to the open arms, he was there and with a glamoured girl that probably was the girl that got killed. and he was a big part for black mail as narrisa said cuz she or faith, I don't remember who, so why was crane so wanted by crooked man?
    4) wasn't lilys body the one that was thrown in the river?? if not then faiths body was lost there like tj said it only kept going deeper and deeper. if not wheres faiths body?? we know that lilys body was inglamoured after they opened the tube.

    Signyl posted: »

    Who died in room 207? --Bigby thinks it was Lily, but he doesn't confirm it. Did Nerissa see Georgie commit the murders? --Ne

  • edited July 2014

    If Nerissa glamoured as Faith in Episode 1, then where was the real Faith?

    If Faith was already dead, then why not just send Faith's head directly to Bigby? Why walk in public disguised as Faith who should be dead? She would be risking that Toad, Woody or one of the Crooked Man's gang telling Georgie that the woman he just killed was walking around making noise.

    If Faith was still alive, it makes even less sense. There would be 2 Faiths walking around. If Nerissa was disguising without Faith's knowledge, then the real Faith would sooner or later hear about it. If Nerissa was cooperating with Faith, why bother? The real Faith could have just gone as herself.

    So to me there's actually little to no evidence supporting Nerissa glamouring as Faith in Episode 1. It also doesn't make sense

    But if the Faith you meet in Episode 1 was really Faith, it fits all the evidence. The real Faith is not worried to be seen in public. She has a reason to be at Woody's because Lily asked her to cover for her. She does not know she is in danger until she goes back and Nerissa tells her she is. She swaps identities with Nerissa and Georgie kills Nerissa thinking she's Faith. The real Faith then leaves the Nerissa's head glamoured as her own at the steps for Bigby to find because she met Bigby and knows he is not as bad as they say.

    vynn007 posted: »

    Faith disguises herself to escape marrying her dad, but I wouldn't call that manipulative or evil. She's angry at Woody because he

  • edited July 2014

    First off, I agree with you. I made a huge post about why Faith is alive and she essentially conned the whole town into getting rid of her enemies. You should check that out, as we pretty much agree. Your post is good, but I have a lot of different evidence (mounds of which are things that as you say, "hide in plain sight"). This is good for our argument, as two different people see evidence for the same ending. Also, it'd be nice if someone besides me might defend my theory! I did post my case hoping, and expecting that people would try to prove me wrong, so I have been replying to good questions. Nonetheless an ally in my corner wouldn't hurt! If you haven't read it, I think/hope you'll be quite pleased. The link is below this paragraph.

    http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/75946/was-it-faith-or-nerissa-a-very-strong-case-with-new-evidence/new

    Secondly, you can't PROVE anything. While I agree with you completely, you shouldn't say you've proved it. The corollary is true as well -- anybody who thinks that Nerissa was the person to whom Bigby last spoke should also say he or she cannot totally prove that. I say I am 99% sure. It's almost arbitrary actually. TTG has left behind so many unused clues (some are super-hard to spot), others are just in the book of fables. These clues could be used to turn the story to a totally different direction. For example, hard ones to spot are: Lily's brooch is Iron, but Holly recognizes it as being from a copper mine. Holly is adamant about burning Lily's body because if not, "some old world shit will fuck your soul up". Well her body was never burned, and nothing happened to Holly. Also, how does Holly get Lily's things like the picture and the other glamour tube (white dove one?) It wasn't in the evidence box, and they're supposedly not close. I think TTG left that ungerminated seed in case they wanted to turn things on her. An easy one to spot is Bluebeard's money. Why would they include that in the BOF? I was thinking Bluebeard could try to rival CM for financial power, but this arc was never used either.

    Nice post, and please check out mine.

  • WAIT WAIT WAIT A SEC. HOLD YOUR WOLVES.

    Then... Whose head is it, the one supposedly "disguised" as Faith in the beginning at the porch step?

  • Amber's. That's my theory. Please take a look at my thread (link in the above post) if you want to know more (including who the eff is Amber).

    WAIT WAIT WAIT A SEC. HOLD YOUR WOLVES. Then... Whose head is it, the one supposedly "disguised" as Faith in the beginning at the porch step?

  • 1) We don't know for sure.

    2) No, Nerissa said that Faith died at the P&P, and said nothing about Lily.

    3) The Crooked Man was worried that Crane would betray him to save himself. Also, Crane owed him money.

    4) AHH, I made a mistake!! Lily's body was thrown in the river, and then after they found it, Crane dumped it into the Witching Well. Sorry about that. Faith's body is still missing, yes.

    jamex1223 posted: »

    ok yes 1) ok its not confirmed, so the fuck died there??? a Mundie?? crane took that girl and glamoured her to look like snow to

  • Possibly, the Crooked Man and Georgie never put together a timeline, and the boss just assumed that Georgie killed her afterwards, and Georgie assumed that it happened before. After playing the game multiple times there are still people who haven't figured out the timeline and who certainly can't agree on it, so there's an argument to be made that the people in universe are just as confused.

    He decapitated her, and now Nerissa, unwilling to accept that her friend died while she did nothing, makes her plan to involve Big

  • Faith is dead and Nerissa is still under the spell. I don't understand why people think Faith is still alive

  • Well... it's Faith, Nerissa, or Random Victim X. There is evidence pointing to each, though I personally think it's Nerissa's head.

    WAIT WAIT WAIT A SEC. HOLD YOUR WOLVES. Then... Whose head is it, the one supposedly "disguised" as Faith in the beginning at the porch step?

  • edited July 2014

    I know the timeline. This is from my old thread, which is linked in my new thread, wherein you've brought up some good points. Some of the following information is inaccurate because I posted it before episode four. The timeline still is the same, however.

    Many of you have rightly asked, “Well if Faith is alive, then whose head is that?” It’s Amber’s. It may also be Heather's (see next post -- likely 5/12/14). “Who are Amber and Heather?” Well Amber is another one of the girls at P’n’P. I think every girl but Faith, Lily, and Nerissa, are essentially disposable. By the way, the other girls are: Brandy, Heather, Amber, and Tara. These names are all listed off in Mark Wahlberg’s character guessing scene from Ted (2010). Now, we must look at (information most looked over) when this all happened. So far: Sunday, June 29 to Tuesday, July 1, 1980. How do I know? Well, we know it starts in June; if you listen to the very first scene (before you even get to control Bigby). The radio is talking about how it was a record high for June. Then, take a look at the pictures below. One is of a calendar in the girls’ office. The second is a newspaper article. I know it is 1980, because that is the only year from 1980-1985 in which June 29 falls on a Sunday.

    http://oi59.tinypic.com/1ht56s.jpg

    http://oi61.tinypic.com/m7bzf6.jpg

    Okay, now look at the first picture. Amber wants somebody to cover for her 7/16. It looks like the note has been stuck to the July calendar, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t stuck to June’s. Also, whoever does the Calendar isn’t doing a good job updating it, because both Faith and Lily are supposedly dead, but their names still appear. Now look at picture two. It shows Brannigan interviewed Bigby early on Tuesday morning (July 1), which was the morning after Lily was killed (night of June 30/early morning of July 1).

    I speculate that Faith had made prior arrangements to switch with Amber, after she had made arrangements to cover for Lily – which I will get to shortly. Faith tells Amber, “Sure, I can cover for you, and you don’t even have to work the full night on Sunday. But this guy really likes me, so you’ll need to be glamoured to look just like I do.” Faith went to Woody’s on Sunday, went back and returned her money/makeup, after which Amber as Faith took over and met whoever killed “faith”. The glamour eventually wears off (which is why Swineheart won’t let anyone see the head or body, if he has it).

    Now, this begs the question, “why would Lily want/need to switch with Faith?” We cannot know this for sure; however, I believe that she was called in by CM and/or Georgie because her relationship with Woody had been discovered. Why is that a problem? Well, Lily had been giving Woody IOUs/freebees for a while. No profit –> no business –> hooker in trouble. So, I posit that Lily had been scheduled to work on Sunday, June 29, and she got Faith to cover for her. Well we don’t know that Lily HADN’t been scheduled for the next day (Monday, June 30), but I posit that even if she hadn’t, Faith’s “death” would compel Georgie to say, “well, you’ve got to work Monday now because the woman you switched with died last night; it’s time to pay your dues”.

    Signyl posted: »

    Possibly, the Crooked Man and Georgie never put together a timeline, and the boss just assumed that Georgie killed her afterwards,

  • edited July 2014

    How would Georgie be confused? He would know when he killed Faith. So it doesn't matter what time because everything would happen after the fact. If he hears Faith is still walking around making a commotion, he'd know something was wrong.

    Even if Georgie is confused, would Nerissa (being as smart as some people think she is) risk the rest of the Crooked Man's gang, especially Vivian? They'd all have to be confused or stupid too.

    That's why I don't like this theory. It relies too much on chance. It Faith was really dead and Nerissa wanted Bigby's attention, the smart thing to do would be to send the head immediately instead of trying to randomly get him to visit her.

    Signyl posted: »

    Possibly, the Crooked Man and Georgie never put together a timeline, and the boss just assumed that Georgie killed her afterwards,

  • The keys to solving the Faith/Nerissa theories is essentially connecting facts together.

    The key facts are that whoever is alive pointed us to the photos in room 207, and Lily asked Faith to go to Woody's apartment, as well as the associated lines at the end.

    The key facts point to Faith being alive. Everyone said that Faith stole the photo of Lily and Crane together including whoever's alive. The photo edges match the photo edges of the photos at Sheppard's Metalworks. How would Nerissa know where the photos were stolen from, since everyone mentioned 1 photo but there were 3? How would Nerissa know where Lily was going when there were 2 places marked at one time and the note was only on the floor after Dee and Dum searched?

  • okay that's where it gets confusing. maybe im mixing up shit but still. the room at the OA, someone was killed there we don't know who, faith, according to the story told by Nerissa, was killed at the PP so that means that lily was killed there???... now crane. we don't see him again, they send him to paris right?? why so much focus on crane not speaking? yes he was an accessory for the conspiracy but why wanted so much? and there where I start to think that maybe that was faith glamoured as nerissa. but still too much questions and it definitely warrants a second season or long DLC

    Signyl posted: »

    1) We don't know for sure. 2) No, Nerissa said that Faith died at the P&P, and said nothing about Lily. 3) The Crooked M

  • I don't get it, the logic is kinda faulty here.
    If we assume it's actually Faith, the one we met at the beginning, then we wouldn't be able to tell what Nerissa's personality is like because by the time we get to meet her two girls are dead already. So, like, what the fuck? This argument doesn't work at all. If the "witty and clever" Faith was the one we met at the beginning and she's still alive at the end glamoured as the "more emotional" Nerissa then how would we get the chance to meet the original Nerissa at the strip club when by that time 2 out of the 3 girls are dead? It's the same person, just in different conditions.

    Also how would this even work. She glamours the severed head as Faith and then glamours herself as Nerissa how and for what purpose? Honestly, what purpose does it serve? Nothing.
    It's nice to see people try to think hard about this but they are missing the very basics. Lilly's been missing for months before all this happened. Both girls were killed around the same time. So by the time Bigby meets Faith in the first episode, both Lilly and Faith are dead and it's just Nerissa glamoured as Faith to get Bigby's attention. Simple. Don't overthink it.

  • Pfft, I don't think it's correct either, but I'm humoring it 'cause I like Nerissa. On that note:

    Georgie isn't confused about when he killed Faith, but about when Faith met with Woody (of course in this theory, it was really Nerissa that met Woody). If he heard later that Faith was causing trouble, it's natural that he'd assume she caused it before he killed her, since dead people don't talk with sheriffs.

    Nerissa would risk going out as Faith because freedom demands risks! So she uses an identity that is safe (because speaking with Bigby is only a death sentence to women who aren't already dead) to test him. Georgie's the only one going after Faith (as far as she knows), and Georgie won't be actively looking for Faith when he thinks she's dead.

    Why bother Bigby to begin with? Because if Bigby isn't going to come out of the Woodlands to help people, there's no certainly that he'll dig deep enough to find out the full story behind a prostitute's head. Without that certainty, there's nothing to gain from exposing the Crooked Man except the high possibility of the Crooked Man putting facts together, discovering you alerted the authorities, and killing you painfully. Nerissa was worried enough over the photo; she's not going to get herself killed without a good chance of success.

    How would Georgie be confused? He would know when he killed Faith. So it doesn't matter what time because everything would happen

  • Pfft, I don't think it's correct either, but I'm humoring it 'cause I like Nerissa.

    Well there you have it. Now that I know you're playing advocatus diaboli, I won't bother to point out the reasoning errors in your middle two paragraphs above. Besides, this ping pong match of ours is exhausting.

    I'll play a little Devil's advocate myself, against my own theory (and the author of this thread's) that Faith is alive. Your last paragraph above is absolutely spot on if your going for Nerissa being alive.

    It Faith was really dead and Nerissa wanted Bigby's attention, the smart thing to do would be to send the head immediately instead of trying to randomly get him to visit her.--DanteShamest

    No, the smart thing to do would be to clandestinely get the attention of the only people (Bigby and Snow) who might have a chance at liberating her. There was also nothing random about (if we say Nerissa is alive) her placing the head there. And she did put it there pretty quickly, if you look at the timeline.

    That said, I still agree with the DanteShamest, the author of this thread, and (obviously) my theory that Faith is alive. And I argue that Faith is alive, not only because I like Faith (as you like Nerissaa), but also because there is just way way too much overt and covert evidence points to it.

    Signyl posted: »

    Pfft, I don't think it's correct either, but I'm humoring it 'cause I like Nerissa. On that note: Georgie isn't confused about

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