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Did Jane Fail? Spoilers

posted by CeaserMartinez BANNED on - Viewed by 16.6K users

So idk what she was trying to do, but she tried to show kenny was a psycho, and then died in the process? Can anybody explain WHY she wanted this fight?

  • Just wanted to show Clementine that Kenny is a brutal monster when his rage fills him.

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      lee4life BANNED

      But that is pretty much ever human in existence?

      • Possibly, but it was only three of us

      • Yes, well probably, but i think it's more about how easily he is triggered and suspects people without conversation. He just skips RIGHT to violence.

        • I'd go insane too if she killed the baby.

          • But she didn't. and Kenny didn't know she didn't. She could have tried to save the Baby and nevertheless lost it, and Kenny would still (have tried to) murder her. That's Insane, in a very bad way.

            • But she implied it did. She lied to get a point across to Clem, and a stupid one at that.

              How would she have tried to save the baby and nevertheless lost it? That's impossible. The only way she could have lost it is by throwing it to the walkers and running away, and that's what it was interpreted as.

              • Please what? What kind of logic is that? So I can't try to save someone and still lose? So a Medic can't try to save someone hurt and still lose him? And a firefighter could not try to save someone from a burning house and still lose him/her? And didn't Clem in just the same Episode try to save Luke's life and still not save him? Would it be okay for Bonny to murder her then? In your logic, it seems that way. Before you argue, remember that Kenny didn't know what happened and that jane was messing with him.

                The Baby could have been bitten while she ran into a walker, or she could have stumbled and the baby could have been bitten/eaten. Remember, it was stormy and you couldn't see far. And the Baby wasn't clued to Jane or could run away by itself.

                Seriously, do you really think you can't try to save someone and still not manage to save someone?.

                And how is it a stupid point if the point was 100% correct? Kenny DID go crazy, without knowing what happened.

                • A baby is very different from a soldier in battle, or any fully grown human. It's unreasonable for you to compare them.

                  Again, the baby being bit by a walker whilst being carried by someone who ended up unscathed? Pretty much impossible.

                  A lot of people would go crazy in that scenario, myself included. It was heavily implied by Jane what happened.

                  • Well, exactly, you say it, a Baby ain't a Soldier or Adult. It can't run away or fight back. And again, WHAT? You say that people can't lose something they hold? You know how often I drop things, while not running away from Zombies? I wouldn't drop a Baby in a normal situation, of course. Have you really never dropped something, especially in a tense situation, are you that perfect? You seem to think the Baby was glued to Jane's Body, what it most certainly wasn't. She could have tripped over a stone, fell down and have lost the Baby, and before she was fully aware and could stand up, a Walker grabbed the Baby. Remember, she's Human, and not perfect or invulnerable.

                    And yes, you'd be damn mad, most people would. I'd understand it, though it's still wrong, if Kenny punched her once, screamed at her, but NOT murder her. It could have been an accident, what I wrote could have happened (again, the Baby wasn't glued to her Body, and it's not unheard of that people drop things they hold), and Kenny would still have murdered her, seeing how he didn't even gave her a chance to explain what happened. You really want to justify murdering someone without giving him a chance to explain? Isn't that what people accuse Carver of?

                    • In that extremely unlikely case, she'd still be held responsible, and not be unscathed either. I certainly wouldn't drop a baby. And if a walker was near the baby, I'd fight it off.

                      Again, it was pretty clear what happened.

                      • No, no, you don't understand me. Maybe "drop" wasn't the right word for it. I don't mean in like: "Oh, I am surrounded by walkers, better drop the Baby so I can escape." That WOULD be fucked up. I meant she's falling down and the Baby slips out of her hands. You understand me now? Not voluntarily dropping the Baby, but accidentally losing the Baby while falling. Jane doesn't love the baby, it's not her's, she doesn't have some maternal feelings like mother have where if the child is threatened they become stronger and more agile. A Mother would most likely manage to hold the Baby by pure instinct, but not Jane.

                        And how is that unlikely? there was a freaking SNOWSTORM going on, you barley could see your hands in front of your face. How then is it unlikely to drip over some rocks or something else that's in the way? Have you ever experienced a Snow or Sandstorm? I am 99% sure you haven't. Again, if you think you are perfect, fine, but most people ain't. I am pretty sure that you too would be barely able to hold the Baby while running away from Walkers in a Snowstorm, if at all. And you saying you'd fight it off makes it sound like fighting walker is easy as pie. In a Snowstorm. While surrounded by other Walker... Riiiight, you really think much of yourself, don't you?

                        I admit, even then she'd had to bear some responsibilities. But not enough, by far, to justify her murder.

                        And it wasn't THAT clear what happened. Yes, I admit, my first thought was that she dropped the Baby on purpose to escape the Walkers, but that still does not justify murder without a trial or at least a hearing. And hell, even if, IF she'd had done that, murder does not justify murder. It's the first thing children learn, at least here in Europa, that one wrong doesn't justify another wrong. I know there is a similar saying in English, but I forgot. If you go down to her Level, you are not really better than her.

                        You can't just go around and murder people because you !suspect! they might have done something bad, especially if there is no proof and he/she says it was an accident. Again, that's how people like Carver see the world. And I am sure that most people wouldn't like that.

                        I am pretty sure if Kenny would have been killed because someone suspected that he did something bad, you'd complain, but because you don't like Jane, it's okay in her case, right?

              • She schemed her way into a fight that she believed she would win (because she couldn't just murder him in cold blood right in front of Clem), and then lost. What's so hard to understand about that?

          • She never say she KILLED the baby. She said the baby didn't made it. I suspected the freezing weather and bad feeding took its price when she said that.But Kenny was trying to push people into killing him since Sarita.

          • Everything about her implied that she either killed it, or at least left it behind to safe herself. It's not like it was a wounded adult too heavy to carry, but a tiny package doing frikkin nothing.
            You don't just loose a baby to walkers and walk away unscathed.

            It is when I found the baby stashed away, that I knew she had willingly risked the life of the baby, Kenny, herself and Clementine just out of some sick desire to "be right" and it became clear to me who had been the true Psycho in the group

            Kenny? Sure he was emotional, and way over the edge (for good reason), but he still had a basic moral compass.
            Jane? She would have stabbed you in the back too, if at some point in the future she had felt that you too could not be trusted.

            • Yeah, and Implications are a good reason to murder someone, right? I mean, she might have a good explanation, but who cares, it's Kenny, he's allowed to murder someone without at least listen to their explanation. Carver did similiar things, and he's clearly a bad guy, but Kenny, he's okay.

              Seriously, how can he have a "basic moral compass" and at the same time completely lose himself and murder someone who might not have done anything bad. He did not know if she really killed the Baby, she did say it was an accident, and yet he continued trying to kill her without listening to even one word. How can you justify a murder without one evidence or even a talk with the suspect? I'd understand if he'd screamed, or even punched her once, but murder? You can't just go around and kill people you think COULD have done something bad.

              And what is it with you people and it being impossible to lose a Baby? You really never dropped something not too heavy? The Baby wasn't glued to her. She could have tripped over a stone or rock (remember, there was a storm with very bad sight), and while falling she could have lost the grip on the Baby, and the impact or a walker killed it. Is that really that impossible? You really think you'd be that perfect in a tense and life threatening Situation in the middle of a snow storm with extremely short and bad sight?

              Jane tried to prove her point in the most stupid and selfish way possible, while Kenny murdered or almost murdered someone because they might have lost the Baby without listening to a single word, not caring if it was an accident (as Jane said before Kenny and Clem knew the Baby was fine) or not. Who's the real Psycho there? There is a difference between being willing to risk a fight to prove a point, and senseless starting to murder people who you don't even know if they are guilty or not.

              If you are really okay with Kenny murdering Jane without knowing what happened, then I guess your Clem would fit best in Carver's group.

              • It really puzzles me why people compare Kenny to Carver. They couldn't be further apart.

                Carver was the kind of person who thinks he has figured it out how the world works now, and everyone else is just too weak or stupid to understand. He would murder you if you were a liability. Kenny would only murder you if you threatened to hurt the ones he loved.
                Jane, ironically, was more akin to Carver in that regard, although not as far down that road by far (yet). But her motives for murder (Kenny in that regard, as we knew that's what she started the fight for. Killing him or at least forcing Clem to abandon him, even though she meant the world to him), were the colder ones of the two

                As for the baby, as I explained elsewhere, it's not that there was no chance she could have lost it by accident. But 1) she was known as a capable person and would have been able to either fight to get the baby back, in which case there would be traces of a fight on her, or searched for it, in which case she would have likely found it by the sound of its screams, the same way Clem found it in the car. And 2) she had told Kenny just minutes ago that she thought the baby was a liablity and she didnt care for it much. So the second the gets her hands on it it "accidentaly" vanishes? Fat chance.
                She knew which buttons to push to make Kenny snap and she mercilessly pushed them. Really brought it onto herself, willingly endangering the life of everyone in the process

                • I dont get why people say she started the fight . befor the real fight began , she even put her knife away to show kenny , she is no threat to him .

                  "Carver was the kind of person who thinks he has figured it out how the world works now, and everyone else is just too weak or stupid to understand"

                  isnt kenny acting kinda the same way ? he is ready to kill/hurt people , steal food from them or leave them behind , if he has to . but why ? am i too weak or stupid to understand why he willingly hurts other people ? its either his way or no way . do as he says or get lost . i love kenny and his god like moustache , but he gave me no other choice then ending it in the snow for him

      • kenny is worse! i love kenny! but he's just going way too far sometimes poor jane....

      • You have to admit that attacking a woman and trying to murder her for saying she lost a baby by accident is a bit far.

        • attacking

          That he did.

          trying to murder her

          First who pulled a lethal weapon was Jane. We know from experience that Kenny is prone to getting into fistfights when overwhelmed with rage and frustration (remember season one for players whose Lee "knocked some sense into Kenny"). This was not much different.

          Jane is the one who escalated this into a fight to the death by pulling a knife.

          • Jane is the one who escalated this into a fight to the death by pulling a knife.

            And after she got away from Kenny she sheathed it again - at which point Kenny hurled himself at her.

            • So then after she knocked him down she pulls it out again and slashes kenny across his stomach. Kenny was wrong but so was Jane. Playing the is Kenny crazy game was her idea. Both had faults and both were stupid resulting in lives lost one way or the other. Why do people insist on making either the hero?? Neither person was justified in doing what they did as it lead to a little girl choosing who gets to keep breathing. Both are good people hardened/changed by what they have gone through but in the end both are now determinant and you can ask Doug/Carley/Nick/Alvin and Sarah how well that works out for them. Stop trying to find the right choice or someone to blame. Is it a surprise to anyone that Clementine is the only semi-sane person?? Cause if so you haven't been paying much attention lol:)

    • And she really thought dieing for it was worth it? Cause she didnt even admit

    • So she sacrificed her own life AND risked the life of the baby just to prove a point? That's not right nor wrong, that just doesn't make any sense.
      Seriously, plot convenience is all it is. "We really want this conflict to happen but we've wasted too much time on a bunch of undeveloped characters so now we have to force it in the last minute and hope nobody notices how it doesn't make any sense". That's the vibe I got from this ending and the game in general.

    • Not that he was a brutal monster when his rage fills him, that he's too broken. He's clinging on to that baby more than anything. That he would snapped on Clem if something happened to AJ.

    • Yeah, but we already KNEW that. There was no point in showing us that.

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      That's human nature.

  • After I saved Kenny, and learned Jane hid the baby, I thought she was a bitch and I'm glad I let Kenny kill her....

    • As soon as Jane returned without the Baby I knew she hid it to show how crazy Kenny was. I killed Kenny, because even though Jane's plan was stupid, it got the point across.

      • She removes the only hope a emotionally broken man has to prove that? Gee, she must feel incredible.

      • I thought she killed it or just abandoned it in the snow. She didn't answer when I asked her 'What did you do?!' and just said to not get in the way of whatever happens so I figured she was gonna start some shit. I tried to de-escalate the situation, but I knew she was a loon so I let Kenny kill her in the end. Super glad I did, Kenny is the man. Just wished I hadn't pulled Kenny's arm and got him slashed as a result.

        • Jane is the only loon eh? Awks much

    • Fuck Jane and Arvo and Bonnie and Mike

  • Not at all. She was right about Kenny. He's a ticking time bomb because he refused to learn to control his anger and stop antagonising people just to have the higher moral ground.

    There was no need for Kenny to kill, or try to kill, Jane. At the time she didn't lose the baby on purpose, and it's not as if it was a piece of cake to wander around in a snowstorm with walkers wandering around.

    Suppose if Clementine was the one that had lost the baby and met Kenny? He would have done the same to what he did to Jane.

    I don't sympathise with him one bit.

    • He would never hurt Clem. And Jane just lost his son

      • Boom!

        Alvin Jr? More like Kenny the third. It's not his kid. Jane tried to show that he's too broken. His rage is too much. Mike & Arvo/Mike, Bonnie, and Arvo left BECAUSE Kenny wouldn't see any other way. He cares about AJ more than anyone!

        He said it himself.

        "I don't trust myself to take care of either of you"

        If you shoot him and save Jane

        "You made the right choice. I let you down"

        It's not that he's bad. He's just broken. And Broken people get reckless. I just wanted Clem to survive.

        Honestly, if Kenny didn't try to kill Jane, and just said he was going on his own, I would've sided with him. He didn't even try to hear Jane out.

        • Could not agree more

        • Kenny's actions aren't justifiable but they are at least understandable. What Jane does is completely dumb and doesn't make any sense. She knew that if she dies, the baby will probably die too since she's the only one who knows where it is and everybody else thinks it's dead.
          But it's probably an oversight from the developers.

          • She wasn't expecting to die she wasn't even expecting Kenny to go as far to kill her. She says it herself if you shot Kenny.

            • He's literally on top of her trying to stick a knife into her chest. You'd think this would change her expectations.

              • Well then yea. But I meant when she made her plan to provoke Kenny she wasn't expecting that far of a response.

                • I don't have that much of a problem with her plan, I have a problem with the fact that she stuck with it even after it was clear that she's risking two lives for no good reason. At that point she stopped being a believable character and became a plot device.

                  • Yeah I hear that. The only explanation I can come up for that is that at a certain point (in the fight) she believed that Kenny wouldn't have listened to her reason (the truth).

                  • And what do you think Kenny would have done if Jane came out with the Truth. Kenny was ready to murder someone even though he doesn't know what happened. I am sure, and Jane knew, that even then Kenny would (have tried to) murder Jane. Maybe even especially then.

                  • I liked Jane, but I always got the impression that she wasnt all that emotionally stable herself. She seemed kinda traumatized by her sisters death (as much as she liked to pretend otherwise), and I think after the incident at the motor inn she kinda latched onto Clem as a replacement. Clem is competent and smart, and she wouldnt just give up and die. I think at the end, Jane would have done anything to make Clem stay with her and thats why she provoked him like that and she took the fight with Kenny to the death.

                    So yeah, I think they were both kinda crazy and desperate at that point.

              • Didn't Jane also leave the truck turned on to keep the baby warm?

                • It would still have either starved to death, died of hypothermia, of bacteria in it's pampers (yes, that even is possible) or suffocated. You can't put Kenny as the only bad guy. Jane knew exactly what would happen if something went southways, and she knew what Kenny would do (not the killing part though)

        • Yeah, and Jane knew he was gonna explode and try to kill him if she did that AND she did that. Thats the stupidest thing in a world, putting yourself in mortal danger to prove a worthless point, that keny can get crazy.. we ALL know that kenny can get crazy.
          With that kind of street smarts shell be dead soon anyways.
          Not to mention she wanted to go south before fully exploring. At least in the cold the walkers are inactive..

      • Considering how he'd rather beat Arvo than start a fire for Clem, I find that statement dubious at best.

        And It was Alvin and Rebecca's. It wasn't his. He clearly was protective of it, and that's fine, but can we really assume Clem would be safe from his wrath if she "lost" the baby?

        • You mean how he'd rather enact revenge/justice for the death of Luke and the suffering of Clem?

          Think from more than one perspective.

          • You mean how he'd throw a hissy fit on a defenseless man who was not at all responsible for Luke's accidental death? Kenny was utterly brainless when it came to his treatment of Arvo - any rational man would realize that it may be best not to constantly antagonize someone who's already been neutralized and lost their entire family.

            • Yes, the same defenseless man who had the gall to shoot an 11 year old girl and come back with a posse of Russians to rob the group.

              He ran across in an attempt to flee, causing a panic, leading to the ice breaking.

              Think of Arvo like a quitter Carver the first time we met him. He comes around hardly threatening, showing a small form of respect and courtesy. Next thing you know, he comes back guns brandished ready to steal (from) you. I think it's safe to say we all have a unanimous feeling of Carver...

    • She was acting like she did it on purpose. Thats the key, here. If it was an accident... if she just projected that she was SORRY. But she didn't. She acted like she was glad it was gone. And that enraged Kenny, as it would enrage ANY father. And yes, Kenny is/was/will always be that boy's father.

    • Yeah, Kenny was really scaring me in this episode. Everyone was thinking that he was turning into another Carver, and I could see it. The situation where Kenny beats up Arvo is similar to when Carver beats Kenny. There's some conflict, Kenny says "Heh, fucker" and then Carver rips into him. After the group crossed the lake and Kenny started yelling, Arvo said "Fuck you!" and then Kenny pulverized him...I just thought that it was a little too similar. I know that Arvo was perhaps "more deserving" of the beating than Kenny had been, but still....

      • Arvo wasn't any more 'deserving' - he didn't even kill any of Kenny's group, and he'd tried to stop the gunfight once he discovered that they had a baby. Kenny, on the other hand, killed one of Carver's men and brought zombies into the compound when he refused to work.

    • Au contraire. All she did was prove a point about herself.

  • She never wanted to fight. Kenny had the power, he chose his fate, and he FAILED.

  • Im happy jane did what she did. Kenny wasnt better then Lilly at her low point - killing a member of the group because of somebody else's "death"..would like to see the fans defend this to be honest

    • This was different

      • How? They both were on edge after losing someone and killed a member of the group because of it,I dont see any differences :s

        • Kenny had a reason

          • Kenny needed to stop thinking that he knew what was best for the kid.

            He also needed to realize that Alvin Jr was not the ONLY living thing in the group.

            So did Lilly. Lol, she never got a chance to save her father. Good ol' Kenny always knows was best. Lilly can basically mirror Kenny. You piss off broken people, and they can kill you. But Jane was trying to point out that Kenny is beyond broken.. turns out, she's right.

          • So losing a Baby, even accidental, is a good reason for people to murder? What if it really would have been an accident? He'd have murdered someone innocent without even listening to them. And that's almost exactly what Lilly did, only she really did suspect the right one (Ben).

            • So if Lee was alive and it looked like Jane got Clementine killed, what would Lee do

              • Not murder him. Especially not before asking what happened. I'd rather not be in your group if you think murdering someone because they might have not saved someone without talking to them before. She could have tried to save the Baby and still not managed to save it and Kenny would still (have tried to) murder her. And my and most other people's Lee would certainly not be that ruthless, impulsive and evil. How someone can justify such things is beyond me...

                You would probably feel just fine in Carver's Group, wouldn't you? After all, that's what he would have done. And that's the kind of thing he did do, killing people for "his" Baby. How is Kenny different at the end, murdering Jane because she might have done something bad or stupid.

              • DOUBLE POST

          • What reason there is to kill someone? I am a Lilly dan but I still disagreed with her killing Carley.All of the Kenny fans hated Lilly for it well there u go,Kenny is also a killer.

    • Lilly: Killed someone because SOMEONE was TRYING THEIR BEST to DEFEND the group. Oh, and the someone who died was not the someone guilty of their actions.

      Kenny: Killed someone because someone intentionally made us to believe that an innocent baby was dead, for no purpose other than "you mad, bro?"

      Completely different. My Kenny is alive. I hugged him. I cried with him. Fare thee well, my knight in shining armor.

    • Kenny believed Jane was a murderer, and he was stable when he left Lilly to go fend for herself. Knowing that he believed she deliberately killed AJ, he had every right to kill her. What if she "kills" another being to prove a point? She is unstable. Kenny may bad mouth all he wants, but he does protect his group. The group that even got Kenny's original group in trouble in the first place. He lost his good friend Walt, Sarita, Katjaa (forgive my spelling), and his only son. Walt and Sarita's death were led by Clem's group luring him there in the first place.

      He has every right to bad mouth all he wants. Jane even provoked him more by mentioning that Kenny's attitude leads the group to failure because of his family. Now she wants to prove her point of his outrage by abandoning a baby in a car and making him believe AJ was killed? Not happening. She's a psycho who wants to ditch everything for dead and keep Clementine to herself as a replacement for her sister.

      I feel sorry for her, but she had to die.

      To make things more interesting, if you have Clem tell the family to leave in a harsh manner, Jane praises her for it. Jane is making Clem a lone wolf group ditcher. That's not the true Clem I know and Lee would've been disappointed. Clementine does mention a line said by Lee, but it was misinterpreted in a selfish way.

    • Lilly killed a person that was standing up for herself because she was being bullied by her.

      Jane shows up and gives off an impression she killed the baby, pulls out a knife ready for a fight, she was pushing and pushing him until she finally got her wish. She put a baby in danger just to prove a point.

      Can't understand why Lilly fans would think what Kenny did was the same as what Lilly did.

      • She never gave the impression she killed the baby. She gave the impression baby was either dead or lost.

        • She wasn't explaining herself properly, all she said was it was an "accident" and nothing more, no details on what happened and Jane has a history of leaving people so it's understandable why Kenny would feel she didn't protect the baby. Either way, she instigated it and wanted a reaction from him even going as far as putting a baby's life at risk just to prove a point.

          • Kenny didn't exactly give her a chance to explain. An "accident" implies an "accident" not the purposeful abandonment of a baby. I understand what Kenny was thinking but he just went over the top. Jane however was purposely baiting the bull. None of them were in the right mind.

            • But that's all she says, nothing else more then pulls out a knife and tells him she's not scared of him instead of telling him what actually happened to the baby. Jane knew how much Kenny cared for the baby and took advantage of this to toy with him. At any moment she could've told him the truth but she dragged it on and let him die thinking the baby is dead. Kenny reacted how any father would, Jane on the other hand is unstable & crazy.

              • Any father? Hell no. She said it was an "accident" and showed remorse (even if it was all an act). Both of them like I said weren't in the right mind. Kenny is unstable and Jane was extremely reckless. Kenny can be pissed all he wants about the baby but that doesn't give him the right to kill her because frankly he doesn't even know what heck happened. He only thinks he knows what happened. To sum up. She lied instigated and dragged it on. He was overly aggressive and didn't take pause. Jane wasn't right to make the test and Kenny wasn't right in how he reacted.

                • Put yourself in his shoes. A woman comes out of snow without the baby you care dearly for, this same woman has a history of leaving people and it doesn't help you don't trust this woman also. You go outside to look for the baby and come back and get angry and she pulls out a knife and threatens you instead of explaining what happened as you are boiling with anger. Though granted Kenny kind of took it too far and considering he had people like Mike & Bonnie bickering at him and betraying him and even the argument in the car, he kept it together up until that point where Jane pulled that stunt that involved a baby's life. Do I agree with his action? No, do I understand why? Yes. What was Jane's excuse?

                  • I'm going to break this down. lets start with Jane

                    Jane first of all was right. Kenny is a hot headed loose cannon. Especially dangerous when anything gets between him the baby or Clem, but at some point unreasonably so. I understand what Jane was doing. She was baiting the bull and dragging the situation out to show it's ferocious nature. She was wrong for that and therefore a kind of a deceptive (fill in blank here).

                    Okay Kenny is broken man. He is someone who is extremely strong and weak willed at the same time. He able to fix himself by latching on to something else. That something else is always something to represents hope to him. And every time he loses that hope he breaks down (the boat, Sarita, the baby) only to eventually bring himself up however chaotic. Kenny has every right to be angry but he does not have the right to assume someones actions and be judge, jury and executioner. Just because someone has a trouble past were they made mistakes doesn't mean there always going to make those same mistakes.

                    Jane's fault was lying. But her lie should have never gave Kenny reason enough to try and kill her.

                    • Jane's only evidence of Kenny being a hot headed loose canon was from the way he treated Arvo who not long ago she threatened and robbed him at gun point. She was trying to turn Clementine against him by comparing him with Carver who beats kids and kills the handicapped. Did Kenny try to harm Mike or Bonnie or Luke or Jane herself before the stunt she pulled? Jane has done nothing but push him especially in the car and when Kenny gets out to search for fuel, she's telling Clementine to leave him for dead, trying to turn her cold as her. She wanted a fight by using a baby's death to provoke him and made Clementine have the option to shoot him, she knows how much Clem cared for him and for her to put her in that situation is cold. She wanted Kenny gone, she could've ended that fight at anytime but chose to go along with it just so she can kill him in self defense. She did it to have Clementine for herself as she was a replacement for her dead sister. She put the baby in danger and got Clem's friend killed just to prove an unnecessary point, she caused conflict and death when there shouldn't have been any, she's a cold lying manipulator.

                      As for Kenny, yes he was a broken man but people are acting like he was a brutal tyrant. In a span of one week he lost his home at the lodge, two friends Walter & Matthew, his girlfriend Sarita, beaten half to death which resulted him losing an eye, being in charge of a bunch bickering idiots who came to him for help, he had a baby to care for and a little girl he had not seen which was his only hope of happiness who could've lost their lives in a shootout, lost Luke who he made peace with, Mike & Bonnie betraying him because apparently they didn't like his treatment of Arvo who led a gang to ambush his group, Clementine ends up getting shot because of those two idiots who did nothing but bicker at Kenny all the way, driving through the snow with a child that was shot while a crazy woman he doesn't trust and has a history of leaving people is pressing his buttons. None of this made Kenny into deranged loose canon and keeping it together but the reality of a baby he cared for dies in a womans hand, mind you that same woman is the one he doesn't trust and keeps her details short and doesn't going into much but pulls out her knife and threatens him, a man can only take so much.

                      Jane provoked him and caused a situation that put herself and a man in danger which would lead a little girl who cares for him to shoot him dead. She caused trouble when there should not have been any. You may think Kenny was insane but he cared about Clem & the baby and Jane toyed with emotions. She gave Kenny enough reason to attack, like I said, she kept her details short and vague and didn't want to end the conflict.

                      • I tire of long paragraphs. I'm going to use bullets because my thoughts tend to be all over the place.

                        • Just because Kenny lost a lot doesn't excuse his actions.

                        • Kenny doesn't listen to anyone except Clem and lashes out at the people who doesn't agree.

                        • Arvo led his gang to Clem however it was to get his gun/medicine(?) back. In other words he should not be blamed for his groups actions. I admit... because I believe your going to bring this up. The confrontation was Jane and or Clem's fault.

                        • Both Jane and Kenny could have ended the fight. When Kenny came back the first thing he did was call Jane a "baby killer" and threw a punch. Jane pulled out a knife, said "I didn't kill him it was accident Kenny" and warned him to stay back. Short pause: She had time to say something and Kenny also had time to ask about the situation. Jane put her knife away. Kenny attacked. Jane may have lied but again I stress that her lie never did not say she killed the baby. Kenny didn't listen.

                        Okay the last bullet turned into a paragraph sorry.

                          • Never once did I excuse Kenny's actions because of the tragedy he endured.

                          • Well can you blame him, he has an idea when nobody has one then one day later people come with an idea.

                          • What if you don't rob him? He'll still accuse Clementine of stealing something that was never stolen and he sounded cocky when he was with his group. Is he bad guy? no but he is stupid.

                          • Kenny went over board, I'm not gonna defend him but don't act like Jane is innocent or never brought it upon herself. She did nothing but kept pushing him and pushing him until she got her wish. She could've end the conflict at any moment but chose not to, she wanted Kenny gone, simple as that. When Kenny crashed the car, the first person she asked if they were OK was Jane, she wanted to make an enemy out of him. If Jane poked a hornets nest or poked a bear and they attacked, does that mean the hornets or the bear are insane or should she not have antagonized them in the first place. Jane was asking for trouble.

                            • Okay sorry about that

                            • I'll give you this one for that "one situation". I think episode 4 to 5 have some slight inconsistency. Since everyone was heading to Wellington in the first place. Then Mike and Bonnie decide to change their mind and totally forget about the original plan.

                            • If you don't steal the medicine he asks for his gun doesn't he? I thought he said something along lines "wheres Jane" (she stole the gun). Yep Arvo was a stupid and cocky.

                            • I never acted like Jane was innocent. If you look at my past conversations with you. I merely said that she didn't imply she killed the baby. I even say she was wrong for baiting Kenny like she did.

                              • That's alright.

                              • It was actually 2 days and both Mike & Bonnie wanted to go to different location with Mike wanting to go to Texas and Bonnie wanted to go back to the hardware store. Come to think of it, that was the only time he lashed when people disagreed with him.

                              • But he acted like Clem stole his medicine and named her as the culprit when it was Jane that took the gun but even when you showed him kindness by not taking his medicine, he wanted to take everything they had over a gun he didn't know how to use. You can say it was Jane & Clem's fault but the whole group got bullets fired at them and yet Mike, Bonnie and the hypocrite Jane are surprised Kenny is made at Arvo.

                              • My bad. But Jane kept her details vague & short, she was baiting and wanted a violent reaction from him as if she was a matador and Kenny was the bull. Kenny went overboard but most if not all of the blame goes to Jane.

                                • The only time this season? Episode? I'm pretty sure Kenny has lashed out at people more times then once.

                                • Well I was just saying that its sort of Clem and Jane's fault Arvo came back with goons. I get why Kenny's mad at Arvo i just don't agree with his method of showing so.

                                • This is the part I don't think will ever agree on. But that's okay. I blame both Jane and Kenny equally. Truly I can go either way on shooting Kenny or looking away.

                                  • Did he lash out in the same way he lashed out at Mike & Bonnie?

                                  • And yet Jane refuses to accept responsibility yet the whole group would blame Kenny for a unfortunate event, Who is gonna be nice to someone that nearly had them killed? All Kenny did was push & shove Arvo, it's only when Arvo said "fuck you" is when Kenny decided to beat him.

                                  • Kenny overreacted but the blame falls mostly on Jane. She's more twisted & unstable than Kenny and is possibly suicidal. She became a judge yet she's no different herself.

                      • Ooops

          • And when was she supposed to explain it? When Kenny beat up her Face? When he tried to cut her open? Kenn didn't even asked what happened, or didn't listen (Can't remember the exact dialogue), and immediately attacked her. He didn't even stop for a second when she said it was an accident. A sane person would have at least listened to her.

            • Actually, After Kenny tried to punch her the first time, she had a opportunity to explain herself. Instead, she says "Im not gonna back down from you Kenny" or something along those lines.She wanted Kenny to attack her.She didn't try to explain herself. Also, she risked Clem, AJ, and was willing to let herself die just to earn Clem's favor.
              Everyone knows Kenny is not a sane person. She's not sane either. They just have different problems. They both show that they will go to the extreme to prove their point and get their way.

              • You can tell from the car ride that both of them were already itching for an excuse to rile up and kill the other. Jane's "justifications" don't hold water when it's clear that she really cared more about having Clementine than anything else - AJ was just a tool for her, whether it was to infuriate Kenny or to placate Clem.

                • @ Bokor and isiah51100

                  Hm, okay guys, I admit she could have done a way better job at this. But, and you can't argue here, while she might not be sane either (who is in a ZA?), in the end her point WAS right. Kenny WAS dangerous, both to others and Clem. Even a Jerkass can have valid points, just look for the "Jerkass has a Point"-Trope on TvTropes :) .

                  But, the way she did was the worst way possible, I admit.

            • There was a time she could've explained but instead she held out her knife and threatened him. And she as also trying to kill him. She wanted a fight because she could've ended it anytime by telling him the baby was alive.

      • "Lilly fans" Biased much? Liking a character doesn't imply anything about another character

  • Jane just comes off as an insane person. She's about to die and can save herself by just saying "He's alive" and decides not to.
    And not only is she willingly throwing her own life away just to prove a point, she is also fine with potentially letting the baby die too: there was a pretty high chance they wouldn't find him after Kenny killed her. They pretty much find him by accident.

    • For someone who was all about survival i doubt Jane was trying to kill herself. She was probably just excepting a harsh beating. I think when Kenny got that final upper hand that when she was like "oh shit hes really gonna kill me".

  • She succeeded in showing how twisted she was. We already knew that Kenny was having trouble keeping it together and all she did was continue to provoke him until the very end.

    • Kenny wasn't twisted though. Jane pushed him and pushed him as best she could, decieved both him and Clementine with the intent of pushing him over the edge because she had it in her head that he was losing his shit. But here's the thing- EVERYONE was losing their shit at that point. Clem, Bonnie, Mike, Kenny, and even Clem as far as I'm concerned. But Jane was possibly the worst of them, because she was trying to break another member of her group for her own insane reasons. Jane was the twisted one, not Kenny. Kenny was trying to keep everyone together, and Jane, like always, was trying to remove Kenny from the picture.

      • Kenny was the one whose stubbornness and rage led everyone to lose their trust in him.

        • Well nobody really trusted Kenny in the first place. The cabin group we're suspicious of him when I didn't trust any of them to begin with, and the others that we picked up along the way ended up showing their true colors, which weren't any better than Kenny's as far as I'm concerned. Besides maybe Luke, I guess Luke ended up being alright. Dude deserved a better death.

  • It was honestly because she wanted to show that Kenny is very dangerous. But really? You are going to pretend you let the baby die? Just so you can have an excuse to kill him? That's really fucked up in my book. And just to prove a point?

    • It wasnt just to prove a point though. I mean, yeah, she is pretty fucked up cuz I think by that time she had already latched on to Clem as a replacement for her dead sis and was willing to do anything to make Clem stay with her.

  • Kenny didn't want to kill Jane... his mind did.

    We all know Kenny is suffering from extreme grief, not only does Jane throw this in his face by continuously mentioning his family and Sarita, but she pretends to kill the last bit of hope in his life. Of course he lashed out. Jane exploited and manipulative Kenny's major fault, she knew he would kill her. She also knew Clem would see and would never forget it. Who do you chose?

    Evil, Manipulative Jane OR Genuinely Grieving, Caring Kenny

    • Someone who cares enough about you came back SOLELY to protect and be with you?


      Someone who has good intentions, but never lived up to his words. Seriously, Clem falls in the fucking ice and all he does is beat the shit out of Arvo?

      • Someone who wants Clem's guardian to lose their **** so she can prove her point. In the process mentally scaring her for life.


        Someone who beats up Arvo because he got Luke killed and nearly got Clementine killed.

        • There was plenty time to beat the shit out of Arvo AFTER he started the fire for someone he supposedly cares about who just fell through frozen lake.

          Sorry man, that's a pretty weak excuse.

          • Remember this is Kenny, I think he was right to try and deal with the threat before he could do anything else. Anyway, couldn't Mike, Bonnie or Jane have started the fire?

            Do THEY not care about Clem?

            • We're talking about Kenny's motivation here, not anyone elses. After knowing her for so long, you would think he would be the first to jump at the chance to save her life. There is an option to say "I'm freezing" in Kenny's direction while he is pummeling Arvo. I doubt that was intended to be directed at at anyone else BUT him. She WANTS Kenny to start the fire for her as a way to try to get him to calm down and stop beating on the kid, but it seems his priorities were elsewhere.

              • Kenny's priority is AJ and Clem, but he probably thought like I said that someone else would deal with Clem, seeing as no-one would dare touch Arvo. Kenny just lost Luke and nearly Clementine. For a grieving man, I'd say he handled himself well by NOT killing Arvo.

                • The point being.. Clementine is freezing to the point of Hypothermia and the only thing he does is beat the shit out of Arvo.

                  Jane, along with Mike, are the ones who start a fire..

            • jane went to get wood for the fire bonnie fell in the lake to if clementine tryed to save luke she was just as cold as clementine mike was just watching and yelling at kenny but bonnie cared for clementine if she tryed to save luke she was very upset when avro shot clementine and told mike not to touch her to me she might try to kill avro for that

            • The threat was Clem freezing not Arvo. Personal grudges should always come after child's safety

        • Clem's guardian? Please.. Clementine was Kenny's guardian.

        • Now, please.. tell me exactly how did Arvo get Luke killed?

    • in my main save kenny killed jane and clementine killed kenny and left

  • As soon as she said I should trust her I knew what was going on. I was never much of a Kenny supporter, I only supported him on the Wellington thing, but I decided to shoot him cause he went coo coo and went to far with beating up Jane

    • So you trusted her even though she was BSing you. She said 'It was an accident', which I personally thought was BS and so did Kenny. Turns out we were right, and she was playing a sick game. But no, Kenny is the coo coo one right?

      • Most of the group thought that he was a disaster waiting to happen, I never thought it was going to go as far as them killing each other. I'm not sure what you mean by BSing me since she told Clem to stay away from the situation which I thought was a demonstration of how unstable he has become.

        • Well like I said she told me "it was an accident", which might not have happened in your playthrough. That's what I meant by BSing, there was no accident, she was doing something crazy.

          And yeah, most of the group thought he was a disaster waiting to happen... but he was the only one I trusted in the entire season so I wasn't about to turn on him because he was going through a hard time. He had just lost another one of his ladyfriends, had a couple members of the group betray him, and then had one provoking him the best she could. I would have lost my shit in Clem's situation too, but Clem is more badass than I am I guess.

          *Oh, and he had his eye bashed in for covering for Clem.

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