The Kenny/Clem relationship was so forced.

Warning, huge rant ahead :P

Now for all you Kenny fans, I’m sure that this season must have been a blast, what with all the Kenny bonding we got. But I implore you to take a second to think of the poor, horribly unfortunate souls who didn’t like Kenny :(

I hated how the game assumed that Clem shared some super special bond with Kenny, ignoring how absolutely nothing at all indicated Clem even liked Kenny in Season 1.

There was no option at the lodge to react to his return with, say, horror or anger, which would've been completely understandable as Clem knew how much of an ass Kenny could’ve potentially been to Lee, and Christa likely told her if he was unwilling to go rescue her in Around Every Corner.

Mike, Bonnie, Jane, and Luke also keep insisting that “you’re Kenny’s friend”, and “you guys are close”, when, no, my Clem is really not. This annoys me even more because the “Clem likes Kenny” plot point was even more forced in No Going Back and prevented me from making a lot of the choices I wanted. After all, this was why Mike and Bonnie didn’t ask Clem to leave with them at first, because they were afraid she’d tattle on Kenny because of how “close she is with him”. This why Jane had to do that stupid crap with AJ to convince Clem to leave Kenny, because clearly nothing short of attempted murder could convince Clem to leave her beloved dear Kenny.

No guys. Just ask me to leave Kenny. You didn’t need to sneak off into the night. You didn’t need to fake a baby’s death. I would’ve left him with no hesitation.

And that’s not to say that I don’t appreciate what Kenny has done for Clem this season. He took a beating from Carver. He begged Wellington to take her and AJ. But the thing is, I appreciated what other characters did for Clem just as much, yet the game didn’t allow me to bond with those characters in the same way at all. I appreciated Sarah when she disobeyed her father to help save Clem’s life, and yet there wasn’t even an option to cry or mourn for her death. I appreciated how Luke saved Clem in the forest and the lake, and yet no tears were shed for him. Hell, Clem doesn’t even cry about Omid’s death, and he took care of her for months considering how far into the pregnancy Christa was at that point. Why does Kenny deserve those indeterminate tears?

The fact that Clem always cries over Kenny, whether during his death or when they reach Wellington, is so infuriating to me, because there were plenty of other characters that Clem bonded with just as much as, if not more than, she did with Kenny, and yet she never shows that level of reaction to anyone else’s deaths. This isn't like with Clem and Lee in Season 1, where almost the entire fanbase unanimously loved their relationship. Was Telltale seriously completely blind to just how divisive a character Kenny was, and how the Clem/Kenny dynamic was nowhere near as universally loved? They alienated a good percentage of the players by deciding to cater only to the Kenny fans. You had the option to either be friends with Sarah or treat her like crap. You had the option to support Nick, or let Walter kill him. You had the option to forgive Bonnie, or never let her hear the end of it and even let her die in the lake. No such variability for Kenny, huh?

On a slightly related note, Kenny singlehandedly tore apart one of the most capable and functional groups Clem has ever had the pleasure of being a part of. Don’t deny it guys, the group in No Going Back would’ve stayed together and gotten along perfectly if not for Kenny’s mere presence and the game's refusal to be disloyal to him.

EDIT: For all you incredibly defensive Kenny fans, no, this isn't a Kenny Hate thread. I actually quite enjoyed Kenny's character in Season 1 and for a good chunk of Season 2. My post is intended to criticize how Telltale handled Kenny in No Going Back, which was rather poorly from the perspective of people who weren't huge fans of Kenny.

Jane: Hey Clem, let's play a game. Try to play "The Walking Dead Season Two" without sympathizing with Kenny.

Clem: You're fucking crazy!

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Comments

  • I can't help but notice that every send-off for Kenny is peaceful, respectful, and guiltless. Even if you kill him yourself, Kenny bears no grudge towards you and absolves you of your remorse. The game tries its hardest to make you feel like Kenny was a good guy and forgive him for everything, even if you killed him for Jane.

    It's embittered by the fact that Sarah dies a horrible, ignominious death no matter what. Or by Nick's off-screen death. Or Carlos dying in the blink of an eye. Or Sarita being reduced to a mute prop once she got bitten.

  • He's an asshole. Jane and Clementine are the best team for her safety and Jane loves her more than Kenny ever did or would.

  • Oh boy.....that's waaaay more long than it needed to be, so I'm just gonna say this:
    It only seems forced because in season 1 we never had a chance to see them bonding at all much like we never saw Clem bond with Katja,duck, and everyone else but it was painfully obvious bonds were going on during that 3 month gap from Season 1. We just didn't see it because we were playing from Lee's point of view.

  • edited August 2014

    Well, I'm annoyed, so Ima rant a bit :P

    Anyways, you didn't mention my biggest criticism with No Going Back, which was its absolute refusal to let Clem leave Kenny until he attempts to kill Jane. No game. You didn't have to go that far to convince my Clem to part ways with him. I would've jumped at the chance to go with the far more functional group of Luke, Bonnie, Mike and Jane if I'd been given the option. Which I wasn't.

    Oh boy.....that's waaaay more long than it needed to be, so I'm just gonna say this: It only seems forced because in season 1 we

  • The writers really revived Kenny because they assumed that players had a strong recollection of him back when he was Lee's friend, even though you were meant to play as a different character. As far as I was concerned, Clementine liked Kenny for his friendship with Lee rather than because she trusted him herself.

    And after his breakdown in Episode 5, there really was no going back in their relationship.

    Oh boy.....that's waaaay more long than it needed to be, so I'm just gonna say this: It only seems forced because in season 1 we

  • Then "lee and clem's relationship" was forced too but I dont see it bothering you.And yes,im a Kenny fan and he made this season very enjoyable for me.

  • edited August 2014

    I'll just copy paste this:

    This isn't like with Clem and Lee in Season 1, where almost the entire fanbase unanimously loved their relationship. Was Telltale seriously completely blind to just how divisive a character Kenny was, and how the Clem/Kenny dynamic was nowhere near as universally loved? They alienated a good percentage of the players by deciding to cater only to the Kenny fans. You had the option to either be friends with Sarah or treat her like crap. You had the option to support Nick, or let Walter kill him. You had the option to forgive Bonnie, or never let her hear the end of it and even let her die in the lake. No such variability for Kenny, huh?

    Besides, the Lee/Clem relationship was handled and developed much better than Kenny/Clem, because the latter depended entirely on the assumption that Clem actually liked Kenny in Season 1, which we were not shown at all, regardless of whether that was true or not. We saw Lee and Clem's bond grow and develop. Not the case with Kenny.

    Tolispro posted: »

    Then "lee and clem's relationship" was forced too but I dont see it bothering you.And yes,im a Kenny fan and he made this season very enjoyable for me.

  • what kenny and clem relationship?

    my clem was against kenny for much of season 2 and she put him out of his misery in episode 5 lol

    kenny was a ticking time bomb so I made sure he never would pose a threat to anyone else ever again

  • edited August 2014

    No more stupid than any other group Clem was with. At least this one had someone with survival experience with them, and no cripplingly useless or stupid members (Duck, Ben, Sarah, etc)

    They also removed the dislike button so people would actually discuss their opinions instead of spamming dislike the second they saw something they didn't agree with.

    "On a slightly related note, Kenny singlehandedly tore apart one of the most capable and functional groups Clem has ever had" That group was a bunch of idiots. Why did this site remove the dislike button?

  • "On a slightly related note, Kenny singlehandedly tore apart one of the most capable and functional groups Clem has ever had"

    That group was a bunch of idiots. Why did this site remove the dislike button?

  • Even Jane herself was disturbingly possessive and I believe Clem would have been safer without her. If Kenny was being weird towards AJ, I'm sure Jane would have killed off Bonnie or Mike if they were to make any mistakes that endangered Clem.

    Well, I'm annoyed, so Ima rant a bit :P Anyways, you didn't mention my biggest criticism with No Going Back, which was its abso

  • I honestly doubt that. Jane might've become obsessively possessive of Clem later, maybe, but nothing in the game showed that's how she was now. When she talks about Mike and Bonnie leaving, she sounds sympathetic towards them and tells Clem that they probably didn't know what they were doing, and only wanted to escape Kenny, despite the fact that they endangered Clem. She also lets Clem leave if she decides not to forgive her.

    Bokor posted: »

    Even Jane herself was disturbingly possessive and I believe Clem would have been safer without her. If Kenny was being weird towards AJ, I'm sure Jane would have killed off Bonnie or Mike if they were to make any mistakes that endangered Clem.

  • I'm going off of how she exploited AJ purely to make an unstable man play right into her hands. It may have been mature of her to allow Clem to leave of her own volition, but after all the questionable things she's done I felt that Clem deserved to be with a better person.

    The whole sequence with Arvo's departure seems contrived to make you hate him and justify Kenny's racism, even though up to that point Kenny was being extremely irrational.

    I honestly doubt that. Jane might've become obsessively possessive of Clem later, maybe, but nothing in the game showed that's how

  • At the very least, I'm certain that Jane wasn't possessive of Clem in the same way Kenny was, expecting her to always agree with him, blowing up and talking about how "Jane is filling her head with bullshit" whenever Clem disagreed with him. She lets Clem leave her if she shot Kenny, and she even tells Clem to "think for herself" instead of blindly agreeing with her or Kenny.

    Bokor posted: »

    I'm going off of how she exploited AJ purely to make an unstable man play right into her hands. It may have been mature of her to

  • Oh yeah, for someone who does not trust groups at all to come back and put up with Kenny's shit JUST for Clementine?

    That's a keeper in my book.

    He's an asshole. Jane and Clementine are the best team for her safety and Jane loves her more than Kenny ever did or would.

  • I wonder if it was intentional for Telltale to redeem Luke only to kill him off halfway through. By the end Clem was stuck between two unsympathetic adults or having to be on her own, neither of which are appealing options.

    At the very least, I'm certain that Jane wasn't possessive of Clem in the same way Kenny was, expecting her to always agree with h

  • Yeah, well, Jolene cared about Clem in Season 1. That doesn't mean the feelings have to be mutual.

    NerdyGeek posted: »

    Kenny cares about Clem more than anybody in Season 2

  • NerdyGeekNerdyGeek Banned
    edited August 2014

    Kenny cares about Clem more than anybody in Season 2

  • I can understand why they made the two adults unsympathetic, since players wouldn't even consider the option of going alone otherwise.

    Bokor posted: »

    I wonder if it was intentional for Telltale to redeem Luke only to kill him off halfway through. By the end Clem was stuck between two unsympathetic adults or having to be on her own, neither of which are appealing options.

  • I guess, because after Luke's characterization in this episode I'd have stayed with him in a heartbeat.

    I can understand why they made the two adults unsympathetic, since players wouldn't even consider the option of going alone otherwise.

  • I agree man. Even at the moonstar lodge.. I saw with Kenny.. Cuz I might've pissed him off.

  • edited August 2014

    THANK CHRIST SOMEBODY SAID IT!

    Kenny was a menace. Festering away and bringing everyone down with his insatiable pipe dream. Then gets sympathy from the idealistic thirteen year olds because his entire character made a U turn? I didn't relate, couldn't... how could I?

    I was wrong. Kenny did care about Clementine all along. But he had done too much to turn back, and done too little to go on. All his misery and suffering slowly driving the group apart. He killed more of us inadvertently than anything else.

    Now, I aint no Jane sympathizer either. Fuck her for lying to and using me to prove her point and pit me, yet again, against someone else. I need to say this because as it stands; either you love Kenny, or you're pragmatism won't allow you to...

  • What won a lot of people over is his constant apologizing.. It's like an abusive relationship circle

    Kenny fucks up!

    Kenny: I'm sowwy for messin' up I won't do it again

    Clementine: Awww K I forgive you

    REPEAT

    THANK CHRIST SOMEBODY SAID IT! Kenny was a menace. Festering away and bringing everyone down with his insatiable pipe dream. Th

  • And Jane wouldn't have even needed to lie and endanger AJ to prove her point if the game had just given Clem the option to outright agree with her that she shouldn't stay with Kenny! But the only options we get are "Oh, Kenny's fine", "We can fix Kenny" or half-hearted "Hm, maybe you're right... I'm not sold yet though".

    THANK CHRIST SOMEBODY SAID IT! Kenny was a menace. Festering away and bringing everyone down with his insatiable pipe dream. Th

  • Well if it was quick and like other deaths lots of users would be complaning about it, im confused on why anyone would complain about the deaths improving and when youre dying you probably dont think about that. Kenny lost all anger once he was shot.

    Bokor posted: »

    I can't help but notice that every send-off for Kenny is peaceful, respectful, and guiltless. Even if you kill him yourself, Kenn

  • I think the point is that it's unfair how the writing was so clearly pushing for players to sympathize with Kenny no matter what. It doesn't matter what you thought of him, it doesn't matter if your Clem didn't like him. The game forces Clem to sob over his death even though she didn't shed a tear over Omid's death.

    #TeamSarah posted: »

    Well if it was quick and like other deaths lots of users would be complaning about it, im confused on why anyone would complain ab

  • Same here.

    Sarita was disillusioned with Kenny. Bonnie had the strength to realize Carver - a man who we can assume protected her just as much as Kenny had protected Clem - was irredeemable. And the Clementine I know is someone who only knew Kenny as Lee's scary friend.

    THANK CHRIST SOMEBODY SAID IT! Kenny was a menace. Festering away and bringing everyone down with his insatiable pipe dream. Th

  • I feel like the Carver death should've played a bigger hand in trusting Kenny. It did for me.

    I watched Carver's death to see how much Kenny really cared about Clementine. Anyone in Kenny's position would've seen a young girl watching and would have just shot him dead. But no, Kenny gave off a display so barbaric and savage I refused to let the game allow me to connect with him after that. I completely closed up and understood all I needed about him.

    remorse667 posted: »

    What won a lot of people over is his constant apologizing.. It's like an abusive relationship circle Kenny fucks up! Kenny: I'm sowwy for messin' up I won't do it again Clementine: Awww K I forgive you REPEAT

  • Too bad the game forces Clem to sob over Kenny's death :P

    I feel like the Carver death should've played a bigger hand in trusting Kenny. It did for me. I watched Carver's death to see h

  • edited August 2014

    What do you mean? You get to freakin' kill him yourself, I don't see how that's not appealing to Kenny haters.

    So what if she still sobs even if she didn't potentially like him in your game? When was the last time she had to kill a human being? Guys please. Even Jane gets choked up about killing that Russian. You think Clem wouldn't feel ANYTHING at all killing human being she's known for a long time?

    She may dislike Kenny in your playthrough, but she's not a damn psychopath yet to the point of being cold about killing him. She cried when she determinantly shot the Stranger, for Winston's sake!

  • edited August 2014

    She also cried when Kenny told her to stay at Wellington and leave him. I don't see much reason for Clem, psychopath or not, to cry in that situation .It's so transparently obvious the writing was specifically tailored to people who sympathized with Kenny, and no one else.

    Pride posted: »

    What do you mean? You get to freakin' kill him yourself, I don't see how that's not appealing to Kenny haters. So what if she s

  • edited August 2014

    i suppose, you could look at it, as she was losing someone from her past much like Christa and Lee and Omid and she was sad that she might not see him again, and was on her own, though yeah it is kind of problematic the other way you look at it.

    She also cried when Kenny told her to stay at Wellington and leave him. I don't see much reason for Clem, psychopath or not, to cr

  • Even then, she didn't shed a tear when Omid was murdered right in front of her. She just sort of... whimpers for a second and stands there. But saying goodbye to Kenny, who's still going strong and has a huge bag of supplies with him, is enough to illicit tears. What?

    J-Master posted: »

    i suppose, you could look at it, as she was losing someone from her past much like Christa and Lee and Omid and she was sad that she might not see him again, and was on her own, though yeah it is kind of problematic the other way you look at it.

  • I KNOW! That was so weird.

    I was wondering why Clementine was so broken up... if anything, Kenny's death was kind of bitter-sweet. He finally got what he wanted, peace.

    Too bad the game forces Clem to sob over Kenny's death :P

  • bad writing, I guess, though I'd take that ending over Jane's which is too underwhelming and cynical for my taste.

    Even then, she didn't shed a tear when Omid was murdered right in front of her. She just sort of... whimpers for a second and stan

  • Eh, I was alright with the ending where you take the family in. At least it hinted that Jane was warming up to people and that there's hope there that Clem will be able to rebuild a community at Howe's.

    J-Master posted: »

    bad writing, I guess, though I'd take that ending over Jane's which is too underwhelming and cynical for my taste.

  • Still it kind of implies that Clem may turn out to be as manipulative as Jane and perhaps even as aggressive as Carver, the Kenny ending seems more hopeful, like it's an ending that Lee would've wanted her to have, to be safe.

    Eh, I was alright with the ending where you take the family in. At least it hinted that Jane was warming up to people and that there's hope there that Clem will be able to rebuild a community at Howe's.

  • Well the first season was told from Lee's point and there are time skips in it and it's not unlikely that Clementine and Kenny got to know each other during that time. That being said it would have probably worked better had they showed more of a relationship between the two characters in the first season.

  • Really? How did it imply that Clem was become manipulative or aggressive? If anything, her willingness to let the family in and her optimism that they might be able to make something of the hardware store suggested that Clem was becoming a benevolent leader, the exact opposite of Carver.

    J-Master posted: »

    Still it kind of implies that Clem may turn out to be as manipulative as Jane and perhaps even as aggressive as Carver, the Kenny ending seems more hopeful, like it's an ending that Lee would've wanted her to have, to be safe.

  • I think he's referring to the option to turn them away, where she then comes across as heartless and even short-sighted.

    Really? How did it imply that Clem was become manipulative or aggressive? If anything, her willingness to let the family in and he

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