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Not a very hard choice after all...

posted by SolidSkull on - Viewed by 17.4K users

I don't know if anyone agrees with this, but choosing between
Kenny and Jane was a fairly easy choice. If it was Kenny or Luke,
now it would have been extremely more difficult!

I was Kenny's best friend back in season 1 and even though I
still like him, his actions in season 2, albeit understandable,
were not always easy to agree with. However, the guy is
very protective over those he loves and I don't think he
would hesitate to do what's gotta be done in order to
protect Clem. Also, Kenny is reluctant about strangers
as we have seen with Bonnie and the cabin group in
S2 episode 2, so he wouldn't endanger Clem's life by
welcoming a fucked-up person in their group.

Luke literally saved Clementine the moment he was introduced
and did very little to be disliked. Having sex with Jane was a
mistake, but he's still a good guy. We all saw his determination
to save his whole group by following them to Carver's camp.
He also risk his life to save AJ during the shootout if you don't
do it yourself. Difficult not to trust him with your life honestly.

Now, if you take these two and compare them to Jane, why in the
holy mother of Saltlick would you even go with her? I mean, what
did she do for Clem?

  • Teached her a zombie-killing trick she already knew.

  • Proved her that she would leave a child behind to save her own skin.

  • Forced her to kill an old friend to prove a point (Determinant, but still).

Now to be fair, she did save Clem from the frozen lake, but that's
like the only grateful thing I can recall from her.

With Kenny and Luke however, we both know they would do
anything to save her and they would never abandon her.
So why making us choose between Kenny and Jane, telltale?

340 Comments
  • User Avatar Image
    dojo32161 Moderator

    I don't know about you, but I shot Kenny.

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    TDMshadowCP BANNED

    Telltale doesn't like to be predictable

  • I picked Jane.. after seeing this I feel bad for doing so..

  • From the start of season 2, i knew there was something wrong with kenny and over the episodes, he only made it worse for himself. He was just full of hate and slowly turning into carver 2.0, so i knew i had to put him down. The moment Jane showed up without the baby, i knew that she was planning to provoke Kenny into fight, to prove that kenny isnt safe to be around (since clem would have to choose between Kenny and Jane) and i was ok with that.

    I like the way telltale made people make decision between old friend, who had gone crazy, or new friend, who was pretty much perfect at surviving zombie apocalypse. Go for irrational choice (Kenny), or think about whats best for your own survival (Jane). I didnt actually even care about the baby, and if there was an option, i would just leave it behind, it would simply be too much trouble in world like that.

      • Jane knew what Kenny would become sooner or later, and she wanted to protect Clementine from that. Making Kenny believe that the baby had died was just the right thing to show what Kenny is capable of and she thought that would be enough to convince Clementine to leave Kenny and come with Jane instead. I knew that i had to put Kenny down or atleast leave him, even before the fight started.

        Kenny becoming another Carver wasnt matter of if, but when, and thats the reason Jane had to trick Kenny into showing his true colors.

        • What does Jane know? Jane never acted on what she thought Kenny would become, but on what he is. The first thing she says about Kenny is in EP5 and something about how he's lost it already.

          How many Carvers has she known? How many groups have she and her sister been with, and then later just herself? I don't care. Her knowledge and experience isn't the be-all and end-all to surviving and dealing with people in this new world, as much as she likes to imply it.

          I'm tired of this "Kenny wants to die and he's crazy, that makes it okay" spiel. Jane betrayed Clem's trust, I don't care if it was "for the best". He's not some dog you get to put down when it gets sick or rabid or old. That trick was just about the most despicable thing Jane had done. "Just give up on her, she can't make it. What are you going to do with the baby? Uh-oh, I, the baby, it...'s right over there! Haha, Kenny had to die, didn't he? Wait, Clem, where are you going? Clem? Clem? Urban?"

          • Jane betrayed Clem's trust, I don't care if it was "for the best". He's not some dog you get to put down when it gets sick or rabid or old. That trick was just about the most despicable thing Jane had done.

            I agree. She was just as broken as Kenny. But what happened (the fight) was all on her. It could be avoided if she never attempted her 'trick' or just stop at any time and told them the truth (thus also making her point by showing Kenny's unstable temper to Clem). She tried not only to trick Kenny but Clem as well.

      • Well Kenny had showed signs of being like Carver already, and the moment he tries to murder Jane, he became Carver 2.0 for a moment. And Jane knew that eventually Kenny would be just harmful for Clementine. If there wasnt wellington, or Clementine continues to travel with Kenny, full transformation into Carver 2.0 is bound to happen, and Jane didnt want Clementine to be near Kenny when that would happen.

        ps. There is nothing heroic about this act from Kenny. It just shows that he isnt as selfish as he used to be 9 days ago.

        • Yeah and provoking a fight with a man that its on his edge and then kill him it's the greater good and "the best way to put him out of his misey"...

          "And Jane knew that eventually Kenny would be just harmful for Clementine"

          Alt text

          100% Carver

          • Well that was the point... Kenny had been on the edge for a while, and Jane didnt want Clementine to be around Kenny when it would have happened, so she had plan to show what kenny can do in moment of anger, which would have convinced Clementine to go with Jane instead of Kenny.

            Lee was going to prison, for killing someone while filled with anger, just like kenny. So even our current laws make Kenny the guilty one. I could have never forgiven Kenny for murdering someone Clementine liked, so i had to pull the trigger.

    • i knew i had to put him down.

      Kenny isn't a dog that you put down when you feel like it's feeling sick. This was literally 2-3 days after Sarita, his emotional anchor, got killed. He wasn't turning into a Carver 2.0, he was still fucking grieving from his loss.

      I like how you call Kenny the irrational one. Apparently risking a babies life so you can prove that taking a man's last hope makes him mad is rational. Not only that but Jane goes in for a kill without ever mentioning AJ's real faith. What a smart woman, she was so perfect at surviving the zombie apocalypse she rused a frail, malnourished, one eyed man and still lost.

      Kenny pointed out there was no point living in a world like the walking dead universe. It's why he was so attached to AJ. He was Kenny's beacon of light in a dark dark world and he made it his mission to raise the child. This is why I stuck with Kenny, he is dangerous to strangers and enemies but a hero to the ones he cares about. He would risk his life for you, Jane wouldn't.

      • but a hero to the ones he cares about.

        The problem with this aspect of Kenny is that it takes so little for him to stop caring about you. Disagree with him once and you're a spoiled brat or a fucking idiot. More than once, and you're trying to hurt him and those he cares about/who haven't disagreed with him.

        • Feel free to give an example of this in season 2, preferably related to Clem.

          • All of episode 4. There's one example for you.

            • It's my truck - fuck you all!

              You embarrassed me Clementine (by voicing any disagreement with Kenny's plan! WTF?).

              He's not exactly friendly after people shoot down his 'let's attack the guards as soon as they open the truck doors' plan.

              I will admit that it was more explicit in season one - something like "You didn't help me with Larry - so fuck you and Clementine" - where as in this season it's just sort of a fact of life, but isn't said in so many words.

      • From Janes perspective, Kenny was very unstable and she knew that when they are going to seperate, Clem wouldnt come with her if she just asked, so she had to show how Kenny would act on situations like that, and hoping it would convince Clem to follow Jane instead.

        And the baby wasnt really at any risk anyway. You can see that one scene before rest stop, where Clem walks around walkers, and they are just standing still (because they got too cold). So obviously walkers couldnt get to the baby and it was safe inside the car anyway.

        ps. Jane was the one who ran back to the ice to save Clem if she fell through the ice, and was trying to light the fire while Kenny was busy beating the russian kid. If walking on thin ice to save a friend isnt risking her life, then nothing is.

        Even if people dont agree with Jane after seeing her Plan, i still dont think se deserves to die for that. In that moment, when you are holding the gun and kenny is trying to overpower Jane, Kenny deserves to die more than Jane.

        • If the cold is capable of freezing a zombie, what do you think it would do to a baby covered only by a blanket? Babies are especially prone to hypothermia and do you want to know what happens to a baby that is afflicted by it? It goes unusually quiet among other things. If this was real life, the baby wouldn't even alert Kenny and Clem of its existence, and if things played out exactly how it did in the game after the fight, it wouldn't even matter who you chose because the baby would be dead by the time anyone was even alerted it was freezing to death. She definitely risked AJ's life.

          She was out to kill Kenny just as much as he was out to kill her. Nobody deserved to die and nobody would have had to die had Jane not rused a broken man by implying she removed his hope. Even after insulting Kenny's dead family, he still tells her to stay in the safety of the car while he gets gas. She responds by contemplating ditching him... She played with fire and got burned, her fault for lighting the fucking flames.

          • So you're saying that i was safer for the baby to be outside in a blizzard, rather than inside car with windows and everything?
            Jane needed to show that side of Kenny to Clem so she would follow her instead. She thought that it was best for Clems safety. Obviously she wasnt thinking straight, because she was emotionally attached to Clem already, so she did stupid thing to protect her.

            Kenny on the other hand was just so angry that he was ready to murder another friend of Clems.

            Jane gave Kenny opportunity to show what he is capable of, but it escalated into fight to the death. She gave him chance to leave and even told him to "just go", but Kenny clearly wanted to kill her.

  • Season 1

    • Kenny got the truck fixed and drove Lee and Clem to Macon, where they'd meet the rest of the S1 group.
    • Kenny filled the truck with Gas while Lee guarded the front door, saved Lee even if he was an asshole after Larry knocked Lee flat.
    • Kenny was one of the few people alright with not getting any food despite going days without anything to eat, provided that the children were fed.
    • Kenny was right about his suspicions towards the St. Johns, and brought the secret slaughter room to Lee's attention.
    • Kenny got the RV fixed, and it was used to save everyone from the bandits and walkers, then Lilly stole it.
    • Kenny volunteered to learn how to operate the train, then showed Omid how to run it in case something were to happen to him.
    • Kenny was the one that opened the armory door at Crawford, allowing everyone else to escape to safety.
    • Kenny got the boat fixed so they could escape to the coast, only for Vernon to steal it.
    • Kenny self-sacrificed himself to save either Ben or Christa.

    Season 2

    • Kenny was the only one left trying to defend the lodge while Carver took hostages, while Luke probably remained hidden.
    • It was Kenny's plan in the first place to lure the walkers into Howe's and escape. Jane's suggestion to mask their scent with walker guts came after.
    • Kenny took a beating for Clem. Since Carver could have back-handed Clem earlier for giving him minor disrespect, we can assume he would have given Clem a harsh beating, but nothing nearly as severe as Kenny's treatment.
    • Kenny was also the one they looked to for delivering Rebecca's baby, and he offered them advice and assistance despite just losing Sarita a few hours prior.
    • Kenny was the one that looked after AJ besides Clem when Rebecca was unable to.
    • Kenny was the one that fixed up the truck, which they used to drive hours down the road, which was almost stolen by Mike, Bonnie, and Arvo. The truck seats also acted as a makeshift medical bed for Clem after she got shot by Arvo.
    • Kenny was also the one that took a risk in siphoning gas from the other cars to keep the truck running. During this time, Jane convinces Clem to "Floor it."
    • Kenny was right about Wellington, and would later maroon himself alone in the snowy wilderness so that Clem and AJ could stay safe.

    Anyone else do this much for Lee and Clem?

    • Yeah, sure he did good things, but he did a lot bad things also, and if you didnt agree with him most of the times, he didnt come join you to find Clem (unless you helped his family and mention that)
      Kenny is ready to let innocent people die and is ready to kill innocent people, because of a mistake.

      And his history doesnt matter that much in 5th episode in 2nd season, because he clearly is becoming a burden to the group and must be left behind, very much like he wanted to leave Lilly, Ben and Omid behind.

      • "There is no telling what that bastard would have done to you" - Kenny.

      • "Becoming a burden", he was one of the most capable members of the group. If anything it was people like Jane and Mike who were becoming burdens. Jane didn't give a shit about watching anyone's back and Mike was some humanitarian fuck-wit who wanted to save some Russian kid who almost got us killed. Kenny wanted to get shit done, cap the kid and move on. But nope, nobody stepped up, everyone defends Arvo. There was also a perfectly good truck, guess who got it working? Kenny. Guess where it got us? Wellington and or back to Carver's camp. Who took out most the Russians? Kenny. He was really not a burden.

        • Yes, Kenny has done bunch good things and right after that he started to argue with rest of the group. And the reason rest of them didnt want him to treat Arvo like shit, is because they actually care about other human beings, unlike Kenny. Jane went to look for Nick, Sarash and Luke, and she and Clem are the reason luke and possibly sarah survived for longer.

          And how was he most capable in the group? He is the reason the group got split in the first place. He is the reason Clem got shot. Kenny tries to mean good but he only causes problems. To me, he is like Ben or Lilly. Just leave them behind so rest of the people can survive.

          • Jane went to look for the others, sure. But why didn't Kenny? Oh I dunno, maybe cause his lover was killed a few hours ago and he was in mourning or wanting to be beside her in her final moments. Nah, that can't be it.

            Saying he is the reason Clem got shot is the biggest pile of bullshit I have ever heard. That was out of his control. Well, I tell a lie, it was in his control but he was getting cock blocked by people who "care about human beings". He could of shot Arvo and NONE of this would of happened. As for splitting the group, that was their own call, they wanted to save that Ruskie fucker and leave the rest.

            • Yeah.. I don't understand how people forget that Kenny was the only one (besides Clem in some cases) who wanted to at the very least part ways with Arvo. If everyone would have listened to Kenny right there, how much pain would have been avoided? But nah, Kenny is just some evil man who was rough on poor innocent Arvo..

            • Kenny was acting like dictator and that caused the group to fall appart. After Luke died, they had no reason to stay together anymore and listen to Kennys crap. So yes, Kenny is the reason group split in half and Clem got shot.

              • All Kenny wanted was to continue on the path the whole group had agreed on and been on for 2-3 days. Everyone else were the ones coming up with different plans after Luke died. Before that no one said shit and kept walking further north following arvo to god knows where. The second Kenny fixes the truck everyone wants to head back or south or fucking Texas (really mike...Texas??) when really now that theres a working vehicle the trip north wouldn't be so hard as it would be on foot.

                • They didnt know what was in north and most people dont risk their lifes based on storys. They wanted to leave north, because they would just freeze to death there.

                  • And I think the "Let's head for Wellington" agreement got ditched, when they decided to go with Arvo for the supplies.

                    That was my assumption at least. That we'd take stock of our situation once that was done.

                    • So the plan was to walk north another day and then turn around? I don't think Kenny would have agreed to that plan. That's why Kenny freaked out because they had a plan and then Luke died and everyone decided they wanted to do something else. They panicked and that's understandable but the plan wasn't just get to wellington. It was to go north because it's cold and walkers are slower which turned out to be true. Everyone wanted a new plan because they were scared and I would be too. I agree they needed a new plan but acting like Kenny was trying to break up the group just isn't true. They let the group fall apart but Kenny even agrees that they need to stay together and asks Clem to help him convince everybody to get on board. Plus after Clem is shot Jane and Kenny drive a few hours north and are now low on gas but Jane's plan is to just go back the way they have been driving for the whole time Clem was knocked out??? Counter productive at that point to say the least.

                      Kenny was an asshole but he wasn't evil or Carver...he was just trying to survive while everyone died, betrayed or flat out turned on him. Like seriously if Mike said that he wanted to stick with Arvo and go his own way Kenny would have been mad but he would have let him go. Everyone acted like they needed to escape Kenny when walking away leaving the group wouldn't have been an issue. But they wanna take the supplies and the truck and screw Jane Clem and Aj so they can be free. I don't agree with or condone what Kenny did with Jane.

                      • The moment Kenny started beating Arvo again for no fucking reason, Mike and possibly Bonnie decided to leave Kenny behind. Kenny treated Arvo so badly, that rest of the group saw him as lesser evil than Kenny.

                        Kenny has always been an asshole, and he was slowly turning into Carver. Thats why Jane had to convince Clem to leave Kenny and come with her instead.

                      • I think the best thing that could have happened in that situation was for someone - perhaps Clementine - to say:

                        Okay! Cool it guys! Everyone is cold, and hurt, and scared. Let's just have one quiet night, and we can discuss things in the morning.

                        As far as blaming Kenny for breaking the group apart. I don't think it was his intention to break it apart, but it was his actions that lead to it. His needless violence towards Arvo (before and after the lake thing), and his various outbursts towards the others in the group.

  • It was easy for me, I didn't shoot Kenny, and did you say "why in the holy mother of Saltlick" -I like Saltlicks...

  • Eh kenny was a complete A hole to me in season 1 so see ya kenny

  • Each to there own Kenny will always be Family no matter what hes done!

    ''Hes my friend, and we dont leave friends behind"

    -Clementine

    • So irl, would you let your old, unstable friend murder your new friend?

      • IRL doesn't work is video games. After all, IRL, I could've just killed Arvo on the observation deck and none of this shit would've happened. Otherwise, I could've just shot in the air or Kenny's foot or hand.

        • Well obviously irl is different from game, but no sane person would pick Kenny over Jane in zombie apocalypse.
          I actually think that its good that Kenny dies in the game. He has caused so much harm to others already and now he is actually only becoming violent and angry in last few episodes. He would've just ended up like Carver sooner or later, and Jane knew that, so she had to show that side to Clem so she could keep her safe.

          • No point in repeating myself I'm sick of the Kenny vs Jane bs
            Shit gets old fast

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            ErenCoral BANNED

            The better choice is to make Kenny die, he suffered too much and you're actually doing him a favour of a lifetime. The Jane ending is better anyway since everyone has a happy ending in the Jane ending.

            • Always one that doesn't get the F***ing message haha

            • No, you aren't. He dies with the knowledge that he couldn't save AJ, just like he couldn't save Sarita or his family. I can only imagine the feelings of absolute hopeless he must feel thinking that he failed everyone he ever cared about.

              Wellington is the better choice for Kenny. He sacrifices himself to finally succeed. He redeems himself and can die in peace.

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                ErenCoral BANNED

                ... Who cares what he feels before he dies, after he dies none of his "feelings" would matter. Wellington is not the better ending, the hell would you save Kenny then go to Wellington where

                If you stay in Wellington: Kenny stays outside which is basically a death sentence

                If you leave with Kenny: Its a death sentence for you all, plus the baby doesn't have any formula so he's the first one who's gonna die.

                The Howe's ending is happier for Clem, AJ, Jane, and even Kenny ( You finally put him out of his misery ).

                • If you stay in Wellington: Kenny stays outside which is basically a death sentence

                  That's the point. He finally brings Clem and AJ to safety and redeems himself for his past failures. He can now die happy knowing he succeeded his mission. How are you not understanding this?

                  Howe's ending is happier in your opinion but objectively, completely ignoring the Jane and Kenny conflict, Wellington is the best place for Clem and AJ.

                  Also, if Kenny wanted to be put out of his misery he'd do it himself, putting him down like a dog because he's suffering is no justification for murder, especially if he didn't ask you to do it in the first place.

                  ... Who cares what he feels before he dies, after he dies none of his "feelings" would matter.

                  Not surprising coming from you.

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                    ErenCoral BANNED

                    That's the point? So basically you let Kenny kill Jane and take you to Wellington " Just to redeem himself " Then he can die in peace? That's just a waste of lives. Wellington is a bell that attracts everything, from bandits to walkers. Also how do you know they have formula? Howes had formula for the baby. You do not know what Wellington is, it could be a group that kills humans and eats their meat. Its better to stay with Jane in a place you know and a place where nobody is there.

                    What the hell? Not surprising coming for me? I'm being realistic here, Kenny would not feel anything after he dies so why does it matter if he wants to feel happy before he dies? -_-

                    • Rusing a broken man for the purpose of killing him to prove a point is apparently not a waste of life? Heading to one location and then turning back after losing lives is apparently not a waste of life?

                      I like how you only apply the dangers to Wellington and not Howes. Howes is just as attractive for bandits as Wellington. Do you want to know the difference between the two? Wellington is a fortified fortress in the middle of nowhere armed by guards. It's walls are huge and supported by crates. Howes is a hardware story with a lot of entrances and a lot of windows, even fully defended it had a lot of weakspots but now it has almost no guards and no defences. At least Wellington will be able to put up a fight and probably win.

                      Considering their community gives out essentials to travellers when they could easily say "fuck off" and point a gun, tells me that their people are fair and just. If they were cannibals they wouldn't turn food away, i'm sure they'd prefer to eat outsiders as opposed to their own.

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                        ErenCoral BANNED

                        Let me repeat she did not try to kill him at first, she just wanted to show Clem how he'd react if Clem ever lost the baby. Okay going to this magical Wellington that could be a freaking rumor and losing lives on the way is not a waste of life? They knew where Howe's was and they knew it had supplies. Plus it was Kennys idea to go to Wellington anyway.

                        Okay maybe you are right about this part but there is no time to become a "kid" in the zombie apocalypse. What if a HUGE ASS herd of walkers come to Wellington and take it down? People wouldn't know how to defend themselves because they forgot all about survival. Staying with Jane increases your chances of living, I mean who wouldn't want to stay with a hardcore survivalist? Also they said Howes wasnt a temporary soloution for them. They werent gonna stay there forever.

                        • how he'd react if Clem ever lost the baby.

                          He would never react to Clem like that because he cares for her and because he'd trust her excuse. He would probably scold her like after Sarita's death but he wouldn't physically hurt her. It would be completely out of character for him. He distrusted Jane and knew of her protest against the baby. He also knows she values her own life over anyone elses. He thought she left the baby to save herself, that isn't out of character for Jane.

                          What was her genius plan after she rused him then? Instead of informing him of AJ's actual faith she whiped out a knife and turned the fight fatal. The plan was always to kill him because her actions don't suggest the contrary, especially considering she knew how he would react.

                          As Kenny pointed out, Howe's could of still been full of Carver's people or the herd. It's not like Howe's was a black and white choice, there was risk associated with it too.

                          (My device has a character limit, this is part 1 of 2)

                          • How can you be so sure? Kenny was ready to kill 2 of Clementines friends and what kind of person would trust Kenny after that? Jane was confident that Kenny would turn into Carver, so she had to convince Clem that Kenny is dangerous to be around.

                            And she took the knife out after she was on ground and Kenny was charging.

                            Jane was only one that went to safe Clem after she fell through the ice, and was only one caring about getting Clem warm after, while Kenny was busy unleashing his anger on Arvo.

                            People sayng that Jane doesnt care about Clems life is stupid, because the only reason she came back was Clem (and she happened to save Kennys life when she came back)

                            Howe's might not have been safe, but it was still better bet than keep going to north because of a story. based on known facts, going back south was better option.

                            • Bonnie and Mike? Friends? They betrayed not only Kenny but Clementine. If their plan worked out they would have stranded them in the middle of nowhere with no supplies. In times as hard as the apocalypse they were lucky they didn't get shot which yes, they deserved it for leaving Clem and the baby hungry.

                              No, she dodged his charge and took out her knife. In that same room she slices his stomach... So much for just "testing" him.

                              "Where there's smoke, there is fire", as always Kenny is once again right and Wellington is in fact there. He took the risk and AJ and Clem get rewarded.

                              • I was talking about Ben and Jane being those 2 friends. Clementine voted not to leave ben behind saying "we dont leave friends behind" and she clearly stated that Ben is her friend. Kenny still wanted him dead.

                                She dodged the charge and took her knife out and said he wont back down. After she saw Kenny calming down, she put her knife away and Kenny charged. After some fighting, Jane is on ground and Kenny charges her, forcing her to slash him with her knife. Without doing that, Kenny could have just pinned her on ground and bash her face to shit or choke her to death.

                                And again, Wellington was a story, they had no actual evidence of its existance, and rational people like Jane dont risk their lifes because of stories. (for this very reason, many religious nuts have died, because they believed god would protect from snake poison or shit like that).

                                • I don't think Jane and Kenny were ever friends. Between Carver's camp and Sarita's death, there just wasn't any time for them to build rapport. As I said before, Kenny knew her track record and he distrusted her and this was within 3 days since Sarita, his emotional anchor, died. When he found out his last hope had died in the hands of Jane, he just completely lost it because he assumed she left it behind to save herself or worse. Jane didn't exactly help the situation by playing along with the lie until it was too late. Nobody deserved to die there.

                                  It wasn't that simple, in Kenny's eyes Ben indirectly caused his family's death. It's obvious Kenny wasn't going to be on his side and it's understandable why he felt that way. This doesn't matter anymore because Ben stands up to him and Kenny understood that he was in the wrong. In the end he risks his life trying to save/give Ben a painless death as opposed to let him die a painful and possibly long death.

                                  • And knowing this, people should realize that they cant let Kenny make the same mistake again. There should have been option to shoot kenny in leg or something, but telltale loves to make people sad, so they made us shoot him or let him make another mistake.

                                    • Kenny never made that mistake before, he didn't kill Ben in cold blood as revenge, he did the contrary. Stabbing or shooting him in the leg may have gave Jane the advantage who in turn would have killed him.

                                      Anyways, don't bother writing back to this. Truth be told, we could be arguing Jane vs Kenny for a long time and still have more to say, in the end our opinions will probably be the exact same as our initial ones. I don't think i'm going to change your mind about Jane and I don't think you will change my mind about Kenny.

                        • (Continued part 2 of 2)

                          What if a HUGE ASS herd of walkers come to Wellington and take it down?

                          A few things could happen. If the community is aware of herds by now they could divert the entire herd into a different direction, assuming they scouted them. Rick's companions in the comic pull this off fairly easily. If they are not aware of herds they could funnel zombies in a steady stream and kill them at a steady pace with melee weapons. Considering that they are at overcapacity, they'd have more than enough manpower to do it. When Rick's group did this they had around 30-50 people, a lot of whom did nothing. Another thing they could do is absolutely nothing. Their walls have no windows/apparent weakness and appear strong. Whatever happens, one thing is for sure, Clem and AJ wouldn't be required to help.

      • Well, I consider loyalty to be very important. I might have backed up Kenny purely on principle. Especially given the fact that Jane was acting like she had just killed the baby. To me, it seemed like she was trying to act like it was intentional too, not an accident. She was very weird about the whole baby thing. She was trying to provoke Clementine's close friend who is grieving and broken into getting into a fight with her. She didn't make a very good case in my opinion. She was taking advantage of Kenny's fragile state to force Clementine's hand. That's how I perceived it. Her way of proving her point was corrupt and I can't support her because of that. I would have sided with Kenny because Jane was the aggressor in what went down. She told a man who she knew had lost his wife, son, and girlfriend that she killed his new adopted son. The only thing that matters to Kenny in the world, besides Clem. That's just plain cruel, in my book. She was trying to provoke and destroy an already broken man. She came off as a sick and twisted to me. It's like teasing a mentally ill person. I found it very bizarre. I liked Jane up until that point too. I'm kind of bothered by that whole scene. It seemed so out of left field to me.

        • Jane never said she killed the baby. In fact she barely said anything about it. She wanted Kenny to draw his own conclusions because she knew what he would think

          Kenny: I'll fucking kill you!

          Jane: I knew you would!

          If Jane had told some story about slipping in the snow running from walkers and even apologized I wouldn't have thought she was being too out of line but also in that case I can't see Kenny killing Jane for an accident. She wanted to be right but LYING to prove that someone might do something is risky, stupid, and flat out wrong. She hadn't known or spent enough time with any of the group, at least not enough to judge who they really were, and definitely not enough to decide who is beyond help. I refer to kenny's attitude towards her twice in the final 15-20 mins.

          After they almost crash the truck-

          Kenny: Jane are you ok? How's the kid? Are you ok Clem.

          After Jane arrives at the rest stop.

          Kenny: Thank christ! Jane are you ok? Where's the kid?

          Two days ago she abandoned the group and even in the truck she says to drop her off because she can't take it anymore. Also in the truck Jane wants you to be mad at Kenny with her. I said just stop saying things to make him mad because she's making things worse (but have agreed with her most of the eps and I cared for her alot) and she replies that I'm just like Kenny.

          Jane is younger and I believe she did what she thought was right but it wasn't. Kenny wouldn't abandon the group but since moment one that's all Jane has wanted and in ep 5 she wants Clem to leave the group (and the baby) a few times. Hell her story about 4 people dying to save the guy stuck under the car was a comparisson on how they all keep dying trying to keep the baby safe and how 1 life isnt worth 4 no matter the life.

          #UnreliableAdults for the win

    • kinda ironic because he is the one that wanted to kill Ben (which led to Clem saying that)

  • Was this a choice?! Did the game actually expect me to pick Jane over Kenny? My favourite character and least favourite character go head to head and they honestly think I'm even thinking about it. Kenny made season 2! He was unhinged, but he loves Clem. And Alvin Jr. And by darnit, he loves all of us!

    • I think it's great that our experience of the end can be so extremely similar: Favourite character Vs. Least favourite character.

      Yet be so completely opposite, as in does the game actually expect me to choose psycho-Kenny over this capable and trustworthy girl? :)

      • Trustworthy is highly debateable considering how the fight started, but I respect your opinion nevertheless. If I may ask though, was she your favourite character in the whole of Walking Dead, or just against Kenny?

        • I'd pick Jane over anyone but Lee and Clem I think...

          But it's hardly fair, since she was the only character in season 2 (besides arguably Kenny) to undergo any sort of progression or arc.

          And yeah - I get the whole trustworthy thing for some people, I did just want to hit it on the nose :P

          • True, Jane did amount a lot of screen time in 2 and a half episodes of appearances. (BTW, I never count Lee and Clem in any fav list's because I think it's unfair). What about Kenny though? May you still have the moment, is he actually your LEAST favourite character?

            • I hated him in season 1 - but that was sort of a good thing, if you know what I mean. It was in story. Sort of "God dammit Kenny". He wasn't my least favourite character in season 1, though he was Lee's least favourite member of the group.

              In season 2 though, I just hated that Kenny was here. I hated that it was played like "Oh Clem and Kenny are just such friends... Hahaha - remember that time I left you to die? Oh hoho, good times". It was like season 1 didn't matter at all. Since episode 2 of season 2 I think I restarted the game around 10 times, because I chose an option that seemed good, but ended up having Clem saying something that supported Kenny - in even the slightest way. It really limited my playing of the season, and I would have much preferred if Kenny has simply been replaced by Patrick or some other new character.

              I was so happy when Kenny finally left the group in season 1, and I was equally unhappy when he showed back up in season 2.

              I don't know if this makes sense. It will probably be seen as blind hate by some (and to be fair it probably is to some extent), but that's just how I feel about it.

              TLDR: I hated Kenny for the right reasons in season 1, I hated Kenny even being here in season 2.

              • Very interesting. While I disagree with you, I'm glad I could have your insight of the decision. I will admit in season 1, Kenny flip flopped around my favourites chart practically every episode (considering Larry was originally my favourite non-playable character, you can image why). But by the end of season 1, when I thought he died and wasn't coming back. I realised he was the best thing about the game. His actions, heartaches, and determination made me love him.

                When he came back in season 2 , however I was heavily against it. Because not did I feel his character was perfect in season 1, but I didn't want him stepping over the new characters. But with In Harm's Way and Amid The Ruins soaring lack of quality, I realised Kenny was the only character left I could like. And by episode 5 and the series pick up, I can honestly say Kenny might just be one of my favourite characters of all time.

                I just thought I'd share that.

  • User Avatar Image
    ErenCoral BANNED

    Jane:

    • She got them out of Carvers lair, you all know how bad that place is and if they stayed any longer Carver could've killed another member, raped, tortured? So she basically saved some lives here

    • She killed Troy while he had the group at gunpoint. Nobody else had a gun... Also she was smart enough to make Troy a dinnerbell ( Distraction ) to make their escape easier.

    • She saved Rebecca and Clementine from the herd.

    • She saved Sarah and Luke from the trailer park, nobody else would've gone out looking for them. She did wanna save Sarah but she knew Sarah wasn't gonna make it. Also when Clementine tries to get Sarah out she tells Clementine to come out because if she stays any longer she could've died with Sarah (She saves Clem 3 times now)

    • She found the observation deck which saved a couple lives

    • She protected Clem from Arvo, what if Jane wasn't there and Arvo saw Clem? Who knows what would've happend then.

    • She teaches Clem new survival skills

    • She gives Clem a nail file which saves her life in ep 5

    • She cares for the group to steal meds from some random guy who has a sick sister

    • She saves Kenny and the group from Vitali

    • She saves Clementine when she is about to freeze to death. She risks her life to save Clem, she ran on the ice lake which could've broke any minute. She made the fire for Clem and got her warm with HER NAIL FILE/MATCHES.

    • She saves Clem from Mike and Bonnie and Arvo ( Sure Kenny helped but if only Kenny was there they wouldve overpowered Kenny and stole the truck )

    • She takes care of the baby 2 times

    • She tries to do the best for Clem by revealing who Kenny really is and what he would if the baby died

    • If you let her live she will take you to Howes and you will find food and baby formula, plus the building is safe from any walkers.

    • She only met Clem for a couple of weeks and she already did more than Kenny would ever do. She did more to the group more than Kenny'd ever done. Infact Kenny always broke the group apart while Jane helped the group. Jane doesn't own anything to the group and she has the right to leave any time she wants but she came back for the group and that makes her family.

    THE END

    I probably missed some other points about Jane :P Please tell me if I forgot any.

    • well actually, she saved the whole group by killing Troy and advising them use the walker blood/guts as camouflage.

      • User Avatar Image
        ErenCoral BANNED

        Thanks for the extra point. I mean I don't think anyone else had a gun to kill him XP. She was smart enough to use him as a distraction.

        • Acctually as a Kenny fan I must say I liked Jane a lot. That's before she wanted to kill Kenny. You don't mess with family, no matter what.

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            ErenCoral BANNED

            But she didn't want to kill Kenny, she just wanted to show Clem who he really was. After Kenny tried to kill her she tried to kill him in self-defense.

            • There is no "self defense" when you provoke the fight, and Jane wanted Kenny dead and Clem to do it (Please Kenny AJ is alive in that car over there dont kill me!).

              • Agreed. You don't tell a man who has lost a son, a wife, and a woman who was practically his second wife that you just killed his newly adopted son (whether intentionally or accidentally), the only thing that matters to him in the world, and expect him not to attack you. She outright provoked him into a fight. She LIED to get him to attack her. I liked Jane a lot. I don't relish in what happened at all. I'm not one of those people who thinks that likings certain characters has to be mutually exclusive. I like both Kenny and Jane, but what she did was messed up. It was cruel and conniving. I did not like that side of her. Whatever Kenny may be, whatever faults he has (and admittedly, there are many), he's not a cruel man. He's not manipulative. He's hurting and broken. I didn't want to choose a person who deliberately plots to break people's psyches. That was too much for me. So, I chose Kenny.

            • That's exactly why she brought out a knife.

      1. Jane didn't get them out of Carvers camp, it was a team effort. Kenny suggested attracting walkers, Mike and Rebecca mentioned speakers and the controls, Clem and Luke worked on the radios, hell, even Alvin (a determinent) had a role in it. Jane did do an important thing, she told them about walker guts, and all credits go to her for that, but she didn't do it alone, she said it herself, she never had the people to do it.Carvers camp isn't all that bad. It had safety, food, supplies and people, everything you need to survive. Hell, if the group wasn't so stubborn and actually gave that place a chance, maybe thing would have turned out happier and better And Carver wouldn't rape anyone, and he wouldn't torture them if they didn't do stupid things

      2. Making Troy a distraction isn't smart, its sick and disgusting ( more so than what Kenny did to Carver, okay, maybe not but whateves ). She didn't have to shoot him in the dick, she could have just shot him in the chest, or the heart, the walkers would still smell blood and go to eat him, shooting him in the dick was uncalled for, it was sick

      3. She saved Rebecca, yeah. She didn't save Clementine because even if Rebecca died in the herd, Clem would have lived, because Clem was calm and cool about it, and also Jane hesitated too much, she was planning on leaving them, a normal person would help them without thinking about it, she had nothing to lose by helping them, and she knows a technique to move the walkers out of the way ( the cow catcher )

      4. Mike would have gone out looking for them, and so would Bonnie. Jane just simply volunteered. She didn't know Sarah wasn't gonna make it, she just didn't believe in Sarah and in Sarahs character, personality, and strength ( which Sarah had a lot of, considering what her father did to her, because after you save her Sarah tries the best she can to survive ). Wow, really, by telling her to get out she saved Clems life ? She didn't save her life by telling her to get out, Clem knew she had to get out sooner or later, it's common sense. So all in all for now Jane saved Clem.... 0 TIMES

      5.Yeah, its really hard to spot that observation deck ( sarcasm ). I don't think anything needs to be said about this, ofc she found it, it was under ( I mean above her nose ).... So she didn't save any lives, really.

      1. I find the fact that Jane was there a very, very negative thing. First of all, Arvo said it himself, he doesn't wanna shoot anyone, and that he will leave now, and I believe in that. I mean, face it, arvo is a little bitch, he probably doesn't even know how to pull the trigger. Jane being there is a negative thing, because, first of all, she took the gun from a kid who wouldn't even use it ( she heard Arvo say those things ), and she tried to convince Clem to take the meds ( failed, in my case ). So yeah, Jane being there was a really bad thing, and she didn't save Clem in that situation, she only made things worse

      2. What, the knee thing ? Yeah, Clem already used that, so.... Yeah, pretty much

      3. I didn't take the nail file, so don't know what that is all about

      4. I can't say nothing about that, I think in her heart she really meant what she said... Kenny's a mess, so is Luke, and Rebecca is pregnant
        I really thing she had good intentions on this one... But, stealing the meds is just wrong, so she pretty much tries to convince you to do the wrong thing

      5. I give her total credit for this one, when I saw her I was yelling : JANE YOU ARE MY HERO, I'M SO GLAD YOU'RE BACK !!!!
        That was pretty awesome of her and I respect her for that, like, a lot

      6. True again, and in that situation Kenny was being a total dick, so again, THANK YOU JANE for doing that, although the fire thing was kind of a thing of common sense, I mean, anyone would start a fire to save a freezing Clementine, except for Kenny it appears, he was being a real douche there.... So, another act of Heroism by Jane

      7. We don't know that, we only heard Kenny when Clem was shot, we don't know what Jane did in that situation... They would overpower Kenny ?? Those guys fear him more than devil himself, they probably wouldn't dare to do anything, because they know how crazy Kenny is, and in that moment Kenny came out only Arvo had his weapon out, so if anyone went reaching for their weapon Kenny would shoot them in the head, and then Arvo would shoot Kenny, but Kenny isn't dead so we know that none of them went reaching for their weapons to fight... They probably ran like Scooby doo gang

      13.Yeah, and that makes her a great person, how ? It's only the Normal thing to take care of the baby, so i don't know how that makes her the hero ?

      1. Yeah, the best thing to do for Clem is to go into a fight with her good friend ( that's cannon my friends ), let her witness brutality unlike she's never seen ( not even Carver murder was as brutal ), force her into killing her friend ( determinent ), hide the one thing that man cares about and tell him it's dead to drive him into insanity mode

      Jane manipulated Clem into killing Kenny, that's a fact... She tells Clem to stay out of it, and then if you let the timer run just before it runs out, she says : Clem, help me !

      Sorry bitch, but you DEAD for what you did, you told me to stay out of it, I figured this is a part of your plan

      Your big PLAAAN, some FUCKING PLAAN ( in Nick voice )

      1. Kenny will take you to a community full of people ( children ) who can protect you and look out for you, feed you and the baby, and keep you safe, mentally and phisically healthy, and Wellington is more safe from walkers than Howe's because of the cold, so, I don't see your point

      2. No, she didn't do more than Kenny, I just proved that by finding a flaw in almost everything you said, again she didn't do shit for the group ( she was in it for Clem all the time, she even said it ), Kenny never really broke the group apart, he never caused other people to get angry at each other, Kenny doesn't own anything to the group, hell, that group ruined his life by getting him into the Carver business

      THE END

      So, yeah, Jane isn't such a hero after all is she

      I'm not a Kenny apologist or a hardcore Kenny fan, all I'm saying is, Jane isn't as perfect as your post makes her

      Thank you for reading

      Edit : I don't know why the numbers are so messed up, I really don't know how this thing works :D

      • Jane is rational, something which Kenny isnt. Just that makes Jane better choice than Kenny.

        • She is rational and sane...and she lied trying to provoke a supposed crazy man. Sounds like Jane was also a bit stupid. Her plan= ultimate fail...death:/

          • Well Janes plan wasnt well thought, because she didnt know Kenny that well, but she knew what he most likely will be like and was mostly right. Only reason she even had to provoke Kenny was because she thought it was best for Clem to finally realise that Kenny isnt good company for her.

            • I shot Kenny but Jane lying is unforgivable. You can't push someone off the edge and say I knew this would happen lol. I went alone and was happy to leave all the crazy shit those people brought with them behind me. Lee said in the first season people would use her and that's all that happened in season 2. Clem was literally let down by every single person this season in one way or another and She was the only rational thinking person throughout it all. If you think about it the adults are useless and hazardous to Clem's health. #TrueStory

              • The baby is biggest treath to Clems safety in all non-wellington endings.

                I knew right from start that she didnt kill/leave the baby to die (she got shocked just from killing random russian guy, she clearly wouldnt have been that calm after killing a baby), so i didnt feel that deceived, plus i understand her reasoning behind it so i was fine with that.

                • I knew right from start that she didnt kill/leave the baby to die

                  You knew Jane had manipulated the whole situation and you were still fine with putting a bullet in Kenny? You realized she was trying to break a grieving man and you were okay with that? Poor Kenny.

                  • I knew from the start that she most likely did not kill the baby, but my reaction to that was different than zykelator's. It opened my eyes to how manipulative and cold she is. She pretty much told a grieving widower (twice, I consider Sarita to be his wife practically) and father who already lost a child that she just killed his newly adopted son, his only reason for living. If that's not cruel, I don't know what is. I liked Jane right up until that moment. She showed her true colors in that scene. I'd rather be with crazy Kenny than a manipulative, cruel person. At least Kenny wears his thoughts and emotions and craziness on his sleeve. It's not hidden like with Jane.

                  • Well even before the scene, i knew something had to be done to kenny, either leave him behind or even kill. I just knew it had to be done and as soon as she came there without the baby, and Kenny was walking back inside, after that look on his face, i knew that i would have to kill him. How exactly was she manipulating me, if i knew what she was doing all along? She killed some random russian guy and got shocked. How do you think she could kill a baby and not get emotional?

                    She knew that they would have to go seperate ways, and she wanted to win Clem on her side, thats why she didnt back down on the fight. Kenny didnt back down because he just wanted to kill her.

      • User Avatar Image
        ErenCoral BANNED

        1: Sure it was team effort, but Jane's idea is what made the plan.

        2: However Kenny killed Carver out of anger, Jane killed Troy because smart. I don't find it disgusting? He did deserve it after all, so I don't know what your talking about. Making him a screaming dinnerbell causes him to be ultimate distraction for the walkers. Plus she did it for the groups sake, unlike Kenny.

        3: ... She did help Rebecca and Clementine. If you didn't realize there was no exits from the walker hoard and her cow catcher trick was the only thing that would've got them out of there. Plus she did want to help them, she told them to not stay close together so the walkers don't recognize them, then she saw that Rebecca was scared so she helped her.

        4: Actually, someone needed to stay with Rebecca. Kenny couldn't stay with her. So either Bonnie or Mike had to stay with her. So only 1 person could try to find Sarah and Luke. And let me tell you they wouldn't have found Sarah and Luke without Jane. She still saved Clem and Sarah but pulling them to the top, which Luke couldn't do with his broken rib.

        5: But she found the observation deck AND opened it with her nail file. I didn't see anyone who had the tools to pick a lock.

        6: What Jane did was smart, she scared him off. If she wasn't there then who knows what would've happened. ( He does know how to use a gun -_- ) Anyway she did try to steal the meds FOR THE GROUP. She didn't want it for herself, FOR THE GROUP.

        7: Hm still though she didn't know that Clem knew. She still does the good of teaching her how to survive anyway.

        8: When she pulls Clem out of the lake, Clem is about to freeze to death. If you take the nail file you can give it to Jane and she will make the fire or if you didn't take the nail file Jane will have matches in her pocket.

        9:This proves that she cares for the group and isn't just a " selfish whore " as everyone says it

        10: Nothing to say here

        11: Nobody had the tools to make a fire except for Jane. If you take the nail file you can give it to her to make the fire or if you refuse the nail file Jane will have matches in her pocket.

        12: Okay we didn't really see anything here so i'll throw this out of the window.

        13: She proves that she cares for the baby.

        14: You missed my point. What if Clem accidently kills the baby? Kenny will kill her without a second thought. What Jane did was the right thing and you know it. Kenny is suffering more than anyone and he deserves to die in peace so basically you're doing him a favor.

        15: Kenny takes you to a community full of strangers which could be anything. What if they are bad people who steal humans and eat their meat? By staying in Howe's you and Jane are the leaders and pretty much the only ones. As you saw Howe's is good enough to protect them from walkers.

        16: Sorry, but she did more good than Kenny. Kenny always caused the group to break up because of his stupid plans and his blindness. Maybe he doesn't owe anything to the group but Jane owes absoulotely nothing to the group. Actually the group owe her because she saved their asses multiple times. She can leave anytime she wants to but she decides to stay with the group.

        THE END

        Jane is a hero :)

          1. Kenny gets Clem to Wellington.

          ...that's it. Don't know why people keep explaining why they made the wrong decision to go without Kenny.

          It's really weird.

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            MindWeb BANNED

            Wellington is also crowded and low on supplies, as Edith says, which means it could easily fall if one person turns and then they turn someone else, it'll spread fast.

            • And how do you know if Howes was not overrun by walkers ??? That was a bigger risk than Wellington.
              Jane was trying to save her own ass

              • User Avatar Image
                ErenCoral BANNED

                Because walkers don't just stay in one place, they move north always as seen in the TV show. It wasn't a bigger risk, Wellington was a bigger risk since they didn't even know if it exists or not. In the end, Wellington was full. They didn't accept new members except for Clem and the baby. So what if the whole cabin crew were alive and listened to Kenny and went to Wellington? They sure as hell would be mad at Kenny and would kick him out of the group.

            • "Wellington is also crowded and low on supplies" then why they give one bag per group?

          • I'd far rather be building a small community at Howe's with Jane. Don't know why people keep justifying going off with a violent, emotion-driven loose cannon in the driving snow, with hardly any supplies, to a place that might not even exist, when a supply cache was already known to be elsewhere (Howe's), and ending up at a horribly overcrowded enclave filled with strangers, one that won't even let all three of them in, and consider that to be a reasonable choice.

            • They defend Kenny, because people are so emotionally attached to his character, that they dont care if he murders others. I didnt expect that so many people would identify with emotion-driven, unstable murderer.

              • Yup, pretty much. Disappointing, isn't it?

                • Yeah... I just cant understand why people would side with Lilly/Kenny,

                  • Why is Lilly now thrown in this mix? You don't really get to side with her after she kills Doug/Carley. I don't think too many people were emotionally attached to her after that. Some maybe but she was painted as the bad guy in both scenarios. She wasn't really mentally there enough to be carrying a gun. Thats why Lilly looks just as shocked after she shoots because I'm sure it wasn't planned out it was just a quick thought in a loose mind.

                    • So if you would have know Lilly for longer, her killing Carley/Doug would then have been ok? Kenny fans are trying to justifty his behaviour only because they are emotionally attached to Kenny. Im sure there are some idiots who are on Lillys side.

                      Was Lilly murdering Carley justified, just because Carley provoked Lilly? If not, then neither is Kenny murdering Jane.

                      • You just can't be wrong huh?

                        Lilly wasn't justified killing either Carley or doug or even Ben (with doug she aims at ben but he blocks) I'm just saying there was never a forgive Lilly option. you either left her or not and she leaves you.

                        Kenny isn't justified in saying Drop Ben or leave people or even killing Jane.

                        When there are so few people every loss is unacceptable and no murder is justified.

                        But at the same time think about this Lee went after the stranger to get Clem back. He had a car and was healthy while also being not bit unlike Lee yet Lee will try to kill the stranger to get Clem back. Is that the best choice? Is Clem safer with a healthy man than with a dying one? It doesn't matter to Lee because he kills/will try to kill the stranger just so Clem isn't taken from him.

                        Now Jane was also a healthy better choice for Clem but Kenny wasn't going to let someone he thought was crazy take a girl he has come to love so much that he even gives Clem peace while he's dying if you shoot him. Which is right? The answer is neither/both. Choices are choices and thats it. It's a choice and an opinion and a viewpoint of one person.

            • People are only trying to justify their own actions and be told that they weren't wrong or stupid or irrational or emotional but that they made the choices that seemed right for them in that moment just as you and everyone else did.

              The sooner we start to respect that other opinions besides our own are valid the quicker fights will halt and conversation about a great game with many different choices that can literally change how you look at the game when you're done. We were all Clem and we all have a story and nobody got a fucking bad ending:)

              #OurClementine

              • I did was seemed more rational, and it turned out to be morally right also (in my books).

                I dont defend murderers, and thats why i left Lilly behind and killed Kenny. Even without the whole Jane accident, Kenny should have been left behind but after he tried to murder her, he deserved to die.

              • Today is my 38th birthday, and I'll share something that I wish to hell someone had told me thirty years ago:

                The more you exclude people you don't respect from your life, the happier you'll be.

                The solution is not to put on a big happy face and "tolerate" everyone until you either explode with frustration or develop some kind of addiction in an effort to cope with their bullshit. Rather, the solution is to recognize you have the right (and the responsibility) to safeguard your own quality of life and happiness by acting with discernment as regards who you choose to associate with.

                Anyone calls you "judgmental" or tries to shame you for exercising this right, toss them on your mental "doesn't get it" pile and just keep on keeping on. You don't owe anyone an apology for having healthy personal boundaries. Period.

                How does this pertain to Kenny and the Walking Dead?

                In real life or in a game, I choose not to associate with ....

                ... drama whores.

                ... reckless and impulsive people.

                ... bullies and abusers.

                ... people who can't think logically.

                ... people who don't take responsibility for their actions.

                Bye, Kenny.

                • I just came here debate, because i used to debate a lot online but got sick of it. Now im just getting bored because people dont listen and they dont even have all the facts before they start to debate.

                  Main reason i came here was that i didnt think so many would actually pick Kenny, and was a bit shocked. but on the other hand, majority of humans are pretty stupid/irrational (the reason world is like this), so i guess its not that big suprise after all.

                • Horrible advice!

                  If someone doesn't agree with you FUCK THEM?? How very ignorant of you. Many people can't be excluded such as boss, family, neighbors!! You either learn to deal with others opinions and views or look forward to be an unhappy shut in or a happy shut in (neither leads to a good fulfilling life)

                  And if game/forum arguments are getting to be too much close the tab and do something different. You don't have to like or even respect everyones views but everyone has them and most are different. Grow up and Happy B-day. Sorry for slamming you.

                  • See what I mean? this is the kind of thing you will have to deal with, from people who don't like the fact that you're exercising your right of free association to lead a happier, more fulfilling life.

                    ==> If your boss is that horrible (bully, can't think logically, drama whore, etc) why would you not find a new job ASAP and get away from that person? Masochist, afraid you can't do any better, or what?

                    ==> If you have a toxic family member... well, have you ever heard of "tough love"? Ask the family of a recovering alcoholic about it, sometime. Nobody has the right to expect you to enable their bullshit, and it's better for them in the long term if you don't.

                    ==> If your neighbor is an asshole and you can't stand them, why would you want to be friends in the first place?

                    I have friends, yes. Good, decent people who I respect and enjoy the company of, and who respect me and enjoy my company as well. What I don't have is a social worker's caseload masquerading as a social life, and as to have that, I'd rather be alone.

                    • You said "The more you exclude people you don't respect from your life, the happier you'll be." which is not good advice. Also if others opinions affect you so bad that you just cut them all out is the same as a child saying lalalalala I don't hear you. Not saying you can't cut some toxic people off but IRL you deal with problems or avoid them Either choice is valid I suppose. Just not great advice is all I was saying.

                      • How is it not good advice? I'm not a codependent, nor do I have any desire to be. It is not my responsibility to be friends with people I find repugnant, nor is it my responsibility to "fix" them.

                        Leading a happy, productive life of my own? Now that IS my responsibility, and that's what I do.

                        When you live this way, you're not "avoiding a problem" or "lalalalala, I can't hear you", because it was never YOUR problem in the first place. It is their problem, their responsibility, not yours.

                        Stand aside, and let THEM own it. Don't let them try to make it your problem, because it isn't.

                        • Some people just dont get this. i dont have to tolerate idiots in real life, i can just not make them part of my life.

                        • See I kind of agree with that. If people are losers bullys drug addict whatevers but I'm talking about dealing with people in general and who knows how old that person you gave the advice to was. I'm a parent and deciding to cut people out of your life is a decision that should be made as an adult with the right mindset. Kid's aren't rational and that's why this is so much bitter hatred floating around here. This is a forum we all choose whether we stay or click away. Ignoring others opinions may be your choice but then I have to ask why be here. I love reading all these different views from all these different people. It lets me know that I'm not the only one obsessed with this game even if I don't agree with everything everyone says.

                          IRL you wouldn't hold a conversation with someone you have nothing in common with but that's what's great about online. Its risk free as if you get bothered you can just stop reading instead of exploding on someone.

                          I don't hate you and I'm sorry if you hate me. Not my intention at all.

      • How are you able to write that much? The most my comment can fit is about a fifth of what you wrote. Is there some requirement you have to meet to not have a character limit?

    • She got them out of Carvers lair

      She didn't give a single fuck about our group until she overheard Kenny's plan to get out. "Mmm, these people I was perfectly content to ignore until then can be useful to me after all, let's profit". And Jane's 'precious information' was something Clem already knew anyway.

      She killed Troy while he had the group at gunpoint. Nobody else had a gun... Also she was smart enough to make Troy a dinnerbell ( Distraction ) to make their escape easier.

      I'd like to point out that almost everyone had a gun actually, and the only one Troy had at gunpoint was Luke, he couldn't watch every single one of them at the same time. And making Troy a dinnerbell is not that smart when the whole idea is to sneak our way calmly and unnoticed through the herd. A gunfire shot was risky, it could have made all Walkers excited and caused them to converge at the same towards the noise, that is, towards us, making the herd more compact and more difficult to go through. It doesn't qualify as stupid either, since Troy needed to be dealt with and there weren't thousand ways to do that, but it doesn't qualify as smart : it's just you can hardly see another way.

      She saved Rebecca and Clementine from the herd.

      Nice from her, but at first she wasn't exactly coming to their help, she bumped into Clementine by accident while leaving on her own. If she had made her own escape faster, one can wonder wether she would have returned into the herd once safe. But I'll grant you that after she accidentally got reunited with Rebecca and Clem, she could have ignored them and she didn't. Still, one can wonder wether she didn't rather just realize at this point how tight the herd was and simply needed Clem's help to make herself a cowcatcher safely (needed her to get its attention).

      She saved Sarah and Luke from the trailer park, nobody else would've gone out looking for them.

      She wasn't looking for them either, as the real reason she wanted Clementine to go with her was she wanted to have a talk away from the others. She says so herself. They casually happened to find themselves where Luke and Sarah were trapped. (The good point for Jane here is that when we hear the cries for help, she volunteers to go in there.) I have nothing to say about the Sarah part since I understand Jane's reasons after what she's been through with her own sister. But people who loved Sarah might think otherwise.

      She found the observation deck which saved a couple lives

      Which was incredibly difficult to "find" indeed, since it's a fucking big building that stands at less than one minute (two at worst) walk from the memorial and is the closest one of two buildings we were going to check out no matter what anyway... Bonnie claimed dibs on checking the museum, so Jane went for the other. Clem "found" the observation deck on her own in a blink of an eye when she decides to go check on Jane. So does Luke when he finally wonders what the fuck they're doing.

      She protected Clem from Arvo, what if Jane wasn't there and Arvo saw Clem? Who knows what would've happend then.

      Before even being aware of Jane's presence : "I'm going to go, I don't want to shoot". So, yeah, we do know what would've happened, he was going to go and leave Clem alone.

      She teaches Clem new survival skills

      Okay.

      She gives Clem a nail file which saves her life in ep 5

      Okay.

      She cares for the group to steal meds from some random guy who has a sick sister

      Robbing at gunpoint a frail frightened teenager from meds he says are for his sick sister is not exactly something I would call an admirable action. Nor a smart one, especially after learning this Arvo is part of a larger group ("I have many friends. In the woods", and we have no reason to doubt it because it totally makes sense, no way this guy with a weak leg and a sick sister could make it this far into the ZA). A group you could already bet your ass we'd better never cross ways with if we treated this guy wrong. What happens later ? Bingo, this group we pissed off sets an ambush on us, vengeful and determined to rob our group to make it up for the stolen meds, leading to a gunfight. No one can tell for certain we could have made friends if we had treated Arvo right, but they wouldn't have gone out of their way to find us, and when we would finally meet them Arvo could have spoken in our favor. When you meet a survivor who says to have "many friends" in a direction we might very well head to later, you think twice before giving him reasons to see you as bad people. Yes we had people who needed the medicine, but we could have at least tried to ask him first and try to make him understand our need, instead of going immediately "Hey ! I don't give a shit, we've got people who need this more than yours !", ruining any chance he would offer to help or be convinced to.

      She saves Kenny and the group from Vitali

      See above. Situation would not have happened if she hadn't treated Arvo this way. Hell, if Jane hadn't been so agressive and mean from the start, we might have convinced Arvo to share some of the medicine with us and the Russians would have been friends and helped us later on the road. But if we consider what's done is done, yeah I guess, we can be thankful to Jane for saving us from the deadly danger she brought on us. Still, the least she could do, if you want my opinion.

      She risks her life to save Clem, she ran on the ice lake which could've broke any minute.

      Okay. (About the nail file, you already told that)

      She saves Clem from Mike and Bonnie and Arvo ( Sure Kenny helped but if only Kenny was there they wouldve overpowered Kenny and stole the truck )

      All I heard as Clem passed out was Kenny's voice, so I can't help but chuckle at your phrasing. "Jane saves Clem, sure Kenny helped". More like "Kenny saves Clem, sure Jane helped" and actually "highly likely" would fit in better than "sure" cause we can only assume that and never get any confirmation. If you insist that only one of them gets to qualify as Clem's saviour on this particular instance, I vote for the guy we knew for certain rushed to Clem's help before anyone else.

      She takes care of the baby 2 times

      Possible, this claim is too vague for me wanting to verify it. Out of my mind I can only remember her holding him in the car, but you might be right.

      She tries to do the best for Clem by revealing who Kenny really is and what he would if the baby died

      Lol. There's so much wrong in using that as a good point for Jane, but I will only bring to your attention that unlike everything from Itchy_Tasty's list who is only all unquestionably commendable actions and things everyone can thank him for or admire him for, what Jane did is not only extremely controversial and morally dubious, but Clem is far from thankful to Jane for forcing her to shoot Kenny. At best, she forgives her. As per strict definition, "to forgive : to stop feeling anger toward (someone who has done something wrong)". Just because Clem can forgive Jane for this doesn't mean she thinks highly of this action like you seem to imply.

      If you let her live she will take you to Howes and you will find food and baby formula, plus the building is safe from any walkers.

      Alright...

      She only met Clem for a couple of weeks and she already did more than Kenny would ever do

      You should have used this as a conclusion, not as one of your points, since this is nothing but a blatantly biased (and ridiculous) assertion. (Gotta love the assumption about what would take place in a hypothetical future)

      Fin.

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        ErenCoral BANNED

        She didn't give a single fuck about our group until she overheard Kenny's plan to get out. "Mmm, these people I was perfectly content to ignore until then can be useful to me after all, let's profit". And Jane's 'precious information' was something Clem already knew anyway.

        Who cares? She got them out Carver's lair and that's what important. Sure Clem knew it too but Jane said it first.

        I'd like to point out that almost everyone had a gun actually, and the only one Troy had at gunpoint was Luke, he couldn't watch every single one of them at the same time. And making Troy a dinnerbell is not that smart when the whole idea is to sneak our way calmly and unnoticed through the herd. A gunfire shot was risky, it could have made all Walkers excited and caused them to converge at the same towards the noise, that is, towards us, making the herd more compact and more difficult to go through. It doesn't qualify as stupid either, since Troy needed to be dealt with and there weren't thousand ways to do that, but it doesn't qualify as smart : it's just you can hardly see another way.

        Hm but Jane manipulated into thinking he'd come with us which prevented him from shooting one of us then she shot him. It is smart since the walkers would get attracted to Troy while the group walks unseen.

        Nice from her, but at first she wasn't exactly coming to their help, she bumped into Clementine by accident while leaving on her own. If she had made her own escape faster, one can wonder wether she would have returned into the herd once safe. But I'll grant you that after she accidentally got reunited with Rebecca and Clem, she could have ignored them and she didn't. Still, one can wonder wether she didn't rather just realize at this point how tight the herd was and simply needed Clem's help to make herself a cowcatcher safely (needed her to get its attention).

        Still, the whole group left Clem alone and she was the only one who helped them. Who leaves a Kid and a pregnant lady in a herd? -_- The only reason she made a cow catcher is because Rebecca didn't want to bump into some walkers. She didn't need Clems help :P If you don't help her she does it alone.

        She wasn't looking for them either, as the real reason she wanted Clementine to go with her was she wanted to have a talk away from the others. She says so herself. They casually happened to find themselves where Luke and Sarah were trapped. (The good point for Jane here is that when we hear the cries for help, she volunteers to go in there.) I have nothing to say about the Sarah part since I understand Jane's reasons after what she's been through with her own sister. But people who loved Sarah might think otherwise.

        Yeah she wanted to talk to Clem but they were trying to find Luke and Sarah also, she just said that she doesn't believe they are alive.

        Which was incredibly difficult to "find" indeed, since it's a fucking big building that stands at less than one minute (two at worst) walk from the memorial and is the closest one of two buildings we were going to check out no matter what anyway... Bonnie claimed dibs on checking the museum, so Jane went for the other. Clem "found" the observation deck on her own in a blink of an eye when she decides to go check on Jane. So does Luke when he finally wonders what the fuck they're doing.

        Yeah and who picked the lock? Jane, with her own tools. Last time I checked nobody had the required tools to unlock/break the lock so yeah ;).

        Before even being aware of Jane's presence : "I'm going to go, I don't want to shoot". So, yeah, we do know what would've happened, he was going to go and leave Clem alone.

        Hm honestly I don't know what would've happened here, so im gonna drop this point.

        Okay.

        Okay

        Okay.

        Okay

        Robbing at gunpoint a frail frightened teenager from meds he says are for his sick sister is not exactly something I would call an admirable action. Nor a smart one, especially after learning this Arvo is part of a larger group ("I have many friends. In the woods", and we have no reason to doubt it because it totally makes sense, no way this guy with a weak leg and a sick sister could make it this far into the ZA). A group you could already bet your ass we'd better never cross ways with if we treated this guy wrong. What happens later ? Bingo, this group we pissed off sets an ambush on us, vengeful and determined to rob our group to make it up for the stolen meds, leading to a gunfight. No one can tell for certain we could have made friends if we had treated Arvo right, but they wouldn't have gone out of their way to find us, and when we would finally meet them Arvo could have spoken in our favor. When you meet a survivor who says to have "many friends" in a direction we might very well head to later, you think twice before giving him reasons to see you as bad people. Yes we had people who needed the medicine, but we could have at least tried to ask him first and try to make him understand our need, instead of going immediately "Hey ! I don't give a shit, we've got people who need this more than yours !", ruining any chance he would offer to help or be convinced to.

        You do realize even if you don't steal the meds Arvo still blames your group? Arvo wanted to escape with his sister from his crazy group thats why he hid the meds. Sure Jane didn't have to be aggressive but she didn't know that his group were a bunch of scavengers/hunters. He wouldn't have given the meds anyway ( My people are suffering as much as yours, you are not special ) He looked like he was lying too since he was hiding the meds so Jane thought he was a junkie. She still chooses to rob the defenseless teenager for the group.

        See above. Situation would not have happened if she hadn't treated Arvo this way. Hell, if Jane hadn't been so agressive and mean from the start, we might have convinced Arvo to share some of the medicine with us and the Russians would have been friends and helped us later on the road. But if we consider what's done is done, yeah I guess, we can be thankful to Jane for saving us from the deadly danger she brought on us. Still, the least she could do, if you want my opinion.

        Arvo blames you even if you choose to not take the medicine, so the gunfight was all his fault.

        Okay. (About the nail file, you already told that)

        Okay

        All I heard as Clem passed out was Kenny's voice, so I can't help but chuckle at your phrasing. "Jane saves Clem, sure Kenny helped". More like "Kenny saves Clem, sure Jane helped" and actually "highly likely" would fit in better than "sure" cause we can only assume that and never get any confirmation. If you insist that only one of them gets to qualify as Clem's saviour on this particular instance, I vote for the guy we knew for certain rushed to Clem's help before anyone else.

        Hm I think I know what happened. (Kenny: WHAT DID YOU DO?!. CLEM! WHAT DID YOU!?) He seems to be chasing after Mike and Bonnie and Arvo while Jane fixes up Clem. ( Jane: I checked, the bullet wasn't inside you ) This is similar to the lake situation however since both of them helped I'll give them that.

        Possible, this claim is too vague for me wanting to verify it. Out of my mind I can only remember her holding him in the car, but you might be right.

        She takes care of him in the house, in the car and when they get out of the car. ( She carries the baby with two hands and can't hold a gun, very risky ) So this is 3 times.

        Lol. There's so much wrong in using that as a good point for Jane, but I will only bring to your attention that unlike everything from Itchy_Tasty's list who is only all unquestionably commendable actions and things everyone can thank him for or admire him for, what Jane did is not only extremely controversial and morally dubious, but Clem is far from thankful to Jane for forcing her to shoot Kenny. At best, she forgives her. As per strict definition, "to forgive : to stop feeling anger toward (someone who has done something wrong)". Just because Clem can forgive Jane for this doesn't mean she thinks highly of this action like you seem to imply.

        I only said Jane does what's best for Clem by revealing Kenny's true colors. If Clem ever accidentally killed the baby then know she knows how Kenny would react ( Yeah Kenny would kill Clem ). Sure Clem may not understand, but killing Kenny is the right choice.

        Alright...

        Alright

        You should have used this as a conclusion, not as one of your points, since this is nothing but a blatantly biased (and ridiculous) assertion. (Gotta love the assumption about what would take place in a hypothetical future)

        You cropped my point here, I said she did more good than Kenny would ever do/ever did. Honestly, IMO Kenny is the one who makes all the problems and breaks the group apart. >_<

    • Well, I think it's a sign that this gus was BANNED;

      AHHAHAAHHAHA

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