Oh hey Nick I didn't see you there.

13

Comments

  • But it seems like that's exactly what there's alot of people asking, with all these "my choices doesn't matter" threads.

    Anyway, yes you make some good points. I agree, there could have been a few more lines from Nick. But would it really have made much of a difference though? He would still feel determinant.

    I just think that calling the writing awful because a DETERMINANT character doesn't have alot of dialogue is a bit unfair.
    Exoddus posted: »

    No one's asking for a detailed branching story that changes the plot. It's not hard to think of ways where characters who are

  • edited May 2014
    Sorry but this made my day. Anyways, I personally feel Luke and Nick are gay. Its pretty easy to believe for certain reasons, but also because of a comment Kenny makes on the pair at the lodge. So... no. Luke wouldn't sleep with Clem unless her name was Cam and had a penis.
  • This isn't TTG writing, smart ass. This was some other person. The other two episodes were written by the same people. This episode? New random guy.
    tauer posted: »

    Yeah, you go ahead and do that. Seriously, write me a fanfic that's better than TT's writing. Funny also, how you didn't answer any of the points I made. I would also like you to point out these so-called plot holes.

  • ALL ABOARD THE NICK TRAIN! CHOOCHOO MOTHERFUCKER CHOOCHOO

    Yeah. But he's still alive which is good enough for me!

  • edited May 2014
    My point still stands.
    Write something better. Go on.

    Also, I'm pretty sure "new random guy" wrote Faith for TWAU. Oh yeah, what a horrible writer.

    Still waiting for all those plot holes you were talking about btw.
    cameroncr95 posted: »

    This isn't TTG writing, smart ass. This was some other person. The other two episodes were written by the same people. This episode? New random guy.

  • edited May 2014
    -Clementine is seemingly stronger than Lee in the way that she fights zombies
    -You get held at gunpoint when the game forces you to stop carrying your gun and leave it on the counter
    -Omid hears someone elses voice speaking aggressively to Clementine in the next room and he leaves Christa holding the rifle before he investigates, and when he see's Clementine's got a gun pointed at her he walks slowly towards them.
    -Scene cuts to sixteen months later and Christa's no longer pregnant and no one references it
    -Clementine escapes death by falling into a river and waking up on a river bank
    -A tame dog reacts to Clementine protecting a can of beans by mauling her
    -The group unanimously leaves Clementines gaping wound untouched before locking her in a shed
    -Nick shoots a man on a bridge while he's having a civil conversation with Luke and Clementine, and they tell him to stop when he approaches; this following an incident where he almost shot an 11 year old girl who was lying on the ground
    -You meet Kenny and how he explains surviving being in a closed off tight alleyway with about 11 zombies approaching him on either side using one bullet is by joking that he's a ghost
    -Luke wanders off with Kenny and when you see him again he's broken into Carver's fort without explaining how he got in, and why they can't use the same way to get out, and his plan to escape is to listen to Carver's conversations using walkie talkie that they're going to steal
    tauer posted: »

    Yeah, you go ahead and do that. Seriously, write me a fanfic that's better than TT's writing. Funny also, how you didn't answer any of the points I made. I would also like you to point out these so-called plot holes.

  • edited May 2014
    Are you kidding? None of these are plot holes.

    1) First, I disagree with this one. You can clearly see that she's struggling with killing walkers, especially in the first episode.
    2) So? Not a plot hole, not in the least. Clementine was 9 at that point, thought she was alone. Everybody makes mistakes.
    3) Who says he heard her? Maybe he was just checking up on her when he found out? Maybe he thought Clem was talking to herself?
    4) What in the actual *** ? How is this a plot hole? It's been 16 months! Why on earth would she be talking about it, it's obviously very painful.
    5) Again, not a plot hole. Makes no sense that you mention this. "Duh, Lee escaped death by surviving a car crash. PLOT HOLE!"
    6) This dog has been alone and probably starving for a long time. It is perfectly normal for a (carnivorous predator btw) animal to revert to it's basic instincts when finally being exposed to food after starving for that long.
    7) Again, not a plot hole. Nick is a dumb boy, who makes rash decisions though with good intentions. This is how his character is written.
    8) Joking. People do it. Besides there are lots of ways he could've escaped. Sure, it's unlikely but far from impossible. Stories like this are about people who are faced with improbable situations. If nothing unlikely ever happened, this would be a boring story. What are the odds Lee runs into Clementine?
    9) This one I get. It still isn't a plot hole but it could've been written better I agree.

    I'll just give you a quick definition of plot hole:

    "A plot hole, or plothole is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that creates a paradox in the story that cannot be reconciled with any explanation. "

    I don't see any inexplicable paradoxes here.
    Exoddus posted: »

    -Clementine is seemingly stronger than Lee in the way that she fights zombies -You get held at gunpoint when the game forces you

  • Omg all this time i thought its one guy replying to his own comments ahaha
  • edited May 2014
    Honestly, it doesn't even bother me THAT much that Nick doesn't have more lines, since I feel like he does just as much in the episode as, say Sarita, or Alvin. It's the fact that his personality has completely changed overnight and he no longer is treated like part of the cast, it's like he's not even there. And it feels like these problems could be easily changed, like you said, with an extra animation or something. He feels like a glitch, not a character- he disappears from the group for no reason then reappears randomly, doesn't have any reaction shots or hardly any input, and goes from feeling completely depressed and worthless to "I have no worries, I'm sure Luke will save us :DDD". I was just like "wha????"
    edit: argh why does it keep cutting off everything i write
    Exoddus posted: »

    No one's asking for a detailed branching story that changes the plot. It's not hard to think of ways where characters who are

  • edited June 2014
    episode 3 was just focusing on a limited set of characters. everyone that was deemed "unimportant" was just sent off to work some place else, with no lines given. more could and should have been done. it's not like they need to draft up new areas or make new models, but i'd like more than 1 chance in the entire episode to talk to even talk to rebecca about alvin or what carver wanted. you dont even get that much, and she's one of the more prominent characters this time around.

    i can see the 400 days characters not really interacting with clem, as she's in time out *cough* "The Yard" and they dont wanna make waves, but another thing not addressed is that this doesn't seem like the camp they were promised, and there was nothing done about the guy on radio with tavia. it's like the place had a change of leadership. hell, reggie could have been the guy to spout off a 2 liner clearing up that things weren't quite this tense before carver took over. that would have explained the power vacuum and why luke's opinion was relevant enough to cause the friction with carver on how to run things.

    then we got what could have been done with alvin. with all of carver's talk about how alike he and clem are. having clem around for one of their "talks" would have been a good way to get some face time with both characters and give more insight into carver and alvin a chance to prove he's not completely whipped, and give him actual face-time to show his determination before he has his last stand.

    there's also an issue with the next time trailer not matching up. it looks like we're walking and being led to some roughly gated community, and carver's giving his speach in front of clem's group and some of his own. what we get is shoved into a van and unloaded into the gardening section of a home depot, and they even give walter some last words totally against his character.

    point is, there's alot more that could have been done, and it's the writer fault that people got pushed aside. this season is falling apart. it's still "decent" but i'm growing more and more disappointed in things with each episode. it's missing the same sort of spark that season 1 had, and that lies with the writers, not the artists or time constraints.
    tauer posted: »

    But it seems like that's exactly what there's alot of people asking, with all these "my choices doesn't matter" threads. Anyw

  • CHOOO MOTHERFUCKERS
    Bubadoo posted: »

    ALL ABOARD THE NICK TRAIN! CHOOCHOO MOTHERFUCKER CHOOCHOO

  • Or Clement. Haha ahahahhhh
    YOU WOMAN/MAN I AGREE

    //let downvotes commence
    cameroncr95 posted: »

    Sorry but this made my day. Anyways, I personally feel Luke and Nick are gay. Its pretty easy to believe for certain reasons, but

  • Derailed!

    CHOOO MOTHERFUCKERS

  • WHY YOU HATE IT? Well, I know the ending was bad, and there was a lot less cool dialogue, but still, man. Tuchanka and Rannoch, man. Those were the shit.
    iorek21 posted: »

    As much as I hated Mass Effect 3, Bioware did a hell of a job with the determinant characters

  • edited May 2014
    I counted: Nick has about 17 lines in EP3, I listed them in another thread.
  • Gameplay aside (which was perfect), ME3 was a mess; fetch quests, autodialogue, boring squadmates (James Vega, EDI????? come on), terrible ending and TIM dumbed down.

    But I agree, Tuchanka and Rannoch were pretty great. Curious thing is: these arcs were written by other people, and not by Mac Walters
    Zurrdroid posted: »

    WHY YOU HATE IT? Well, I know the ending was bad, and there was a lot less cool dialogue, but still, man. Tuchanka and Rannoch, man. Those were the shit.

  • It would be cool, but im thinking it would mean Nick will stuck into the background rest of the season??¿
    azureai posted: »

    Maybe TTG will shock us all by getting Nick to end alive. *shrug*

  • Okay, I agree with James, but EDI was awesome. It's nice to have the perspective of a synthetic intelligence. Also, the Joker/EDI was cute. Though yeah, I hated the useless 'scanning for war assets' and the autodialogue. I actually found TIM to be okay, honestly. I liked the Saren parallel the did. And the Gameplay was indeed perfect, aside from the fact that the nerfed Tech Armor so hard. I loved having a second to regroup when my shields broke, but now it only works when the shield is active and has to be detonated manually.
    iorek21 posted: »

    Gameplay aside (which was perfect), ME3 was a mess; fetch quests, autodialogue, boring squadmates (James Vega, EDI????? come on),

  • No doubt he will get more screen time in Ep.4,at least I hope so.
  • i liked conrad verner, this bit especially...

    from the wikia:

    In Mass Effect 3 he also makes several in-jokes about the game mechanics, e.g. mentioning that he asks people all the questions that come up in his mind, and sometimes forgets which questions he already asked and asks them again. He is also unaware of thermal clips, still thinking that the weapons cool down after a while. Shepard explains to him that the cooling systems inside the guns were sacrificed to make room for thermal clips. Conrad replies that it's like ammunition and asks if you can still wait for the weapon to cool down by itself, and when Shepard answers no, Conrad says that it seems like a step backwards.
    Zurrdroid posted: »

    Okay, I agree with James, but EDI was awesome. It's nice to have the perspective of a synthetic intelligence. Also, the Joker/EDI

  • If Nick died in Ep2, that feels like he was sucked out of the game complete.

    How Luke didn't even cared at all that his good friend was dead and no one never even mentioned Nick, expt Reggie. It felt just wrong. TT handled Nick so poorly. Most wasted determined character in TTs history.

    Hopefully Ep4 will fix partially this.
    TheCygi posted: »

    heck, the only people that actually got more than a few lines were bonnie, kenny, sarah, and rebecca. everyone else was either ser

  • WOW.
    MrSolomon posted: »

    I counted: Nick has about 17 lines in EP3, I listed them in another thread.

  • It's frustrating because from episodes 1-2 he was written beautifully. Now he's just... shit. I don't know. He's been reduced to a side character. Even Ben didn't get that when he was determinant.

    If Nick died in Ep2, that feels like he was sucked out of the game complete. How Luke didn't even cared at all that his good

  • edited May 2014
    Let me explain why each of these are plotholes.

    1) Clementine becoming very proficient at killing zombies, and strong enough to overpower them physically is a gap in the storyline that isn't given explanation.
    2) Clementine wandering away from her gun (against the player's control when you're supposed to feel immersed as the character) results in Omid's death, but is given no explanation making it impossible to understand why she did it. This is a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot, which is needed for the story to make sense. This is what a plot hole is.
    3) If he thought Clem was talking to himself while he was fucking Christa, got dressed, and headed there leaving the gun behind out of a moment of terrible judgement. All of this was a gap in the storyline and wasn't given any explanation.
    4) A whole sixteen months being omitted, with a baby that's now disappeared without explanation and no longer spoken about is both a gap and inconsistency in a storyline and is therefore also a plot hole.
    5) How Clementine fell into the river, unharmed, and was delivered unharmed to the riverbank in order to escape a mob of zombies is considered a plot hole is again because it's a "blatant omission of relevant information needed to make sense of the plot" and an inexplicable paradox because we have to imagine a scenario where she's in perfect health after pulling a stunt like that, which is absurd.
    6) It makes sense in terms of dog psychology that it would bite her in order to steal that food in fear of starvation. However, the dog would be focused on the food and not as I said mauling her. It's not in an animal as domesticated as a dog's instinct to suddenly see a human being like Clementine as a more favourable food source starving or not.
    7) It is an inexplicable paradox why out of around 6 people (three of them have a child of their own) none apparently objected to a 10 year old girl having a rifle pointed at her while she was on the ground. No one explained why it was for their safety that she have a loaded gun pointed directly at her, with no trigger control, when she's so much less physically capable and so much compromised than they are. It's an inconsistency because leading up to this point there was huge emphasis of being at the source of gunshots or loud noise being a deathwish because it attracts all the zombies in the area. Yet they're prepared to execute her using a rifle right outside their house.
    8) This is an inexplicable paradox until you offer one possible explanation of how he made it out of that scenario.
    9) Again, you really have to grasp at straws to come up for an explanation of a gap in the storyline where Luke gets separated from the group, and makes it into Carver's fort without his entrance also functioning as an exit.

    I don't know why you're trying to change this argument into defining "plot holes" anyway when we're discussing why we think the writing's lazy.
    tauer posted: »

    Are you kidding? None of these are plot holes. 1) First, I disagree with this one. You can clearly see that she's struggling

  • Nope, 8. I counted just today.
    MrSolomon posted: »

    I counted: Nick has about 17 lines in EP3, I listed them in another thread.

  • I actually liked Vega a lot. Waaaaaay more than I did Jacob (who's name I just had to look up, that's how forgettable he was).
    iorek21 posted: »

    Gameplay aside (which was perfect), ME3 was a mess; fetch quests, autodialogue, boring squadmates (James Vega, EDI????? come on),

  • Then let me list them right here: "Say that again", "Mister, I ain't a boy" (both to Kenny)
    "Thanks, Bonnie"
    "It's my fault" (to Reggie about his arm)
    "It's not" (when Clem looks at the "beds")
    "Hey Clem", "Just thinking about Luke. Just...there's no way he's gone. That he left.", "How about it?", " 'Cause me, I known him for damn near twenty years now and I can't buy it." , "Course I can't say the thought never crossed my mind . Things change. The whole damn world changed." , (one more depending on dialogue choice) , "Guess I oughta try and get some sleep. You should, too. They're gonna ride our asses tomorrow for sure.", "Night." (all to Clementine)
    "Jesus Christ, stop!", "Troy, do something!", "You don't have to do this, Bill!" (during Kenny's beating, you don't see him, but you can tell by the colour of the subtitles that it's him)
    "It is pretty damn risky guys", "I don't know, Luke's making sense. Mabye we should wait." (during discussion)
    "Man, we're never gonna make it through this" (before they all go through the herd)
    I count 17.
    cameroncr95 posted: »

    Nope, 8. I counted just today.

  • Hopefully not just because they kill him off. :(
    Saoralba131 posted: »

    No doubt he will get more screen time in Ep.4,at least I hope so.

  • Not really.
    Ben actually had a few good moments in Episode 5.
    He stood up to Kenny when Kenny was being a asshole to him.
    He picked the gun up that Lee dropped when they were climbing up the attic stairs.
    Don't get me wrong, i like Nick but it's degrading to compare his Episode 3 as being similar to Ben's Episode 5.
    Omid posted: »

    Basically the only thing he did in this episode was agree with Rebecca's plan and yell at Kenny lol. Basically Ben's role in Ep5.

  • I would've wanted to see him more, too
    Well lets just hope that he'll be handy in the future... But just not like in "I'll sacrifice myself for you, Clem"- style


    Guh I'm just gonna develope my own game which will contain as much Nick as possible
  • Ikr? Doug/Carley is a prime example that determinant characters can still be an integral character. Carley's death for me, is one of the most shocking moments in gaming. Nick and Alvin made no difference or contribution at all, except for Alvin's death scene (Ep. 3), which still felt kinda rushed.

    I think Telltale need to spend more time with the other characters. All they've been on about in Season 2 is "THE FANS LOVE CLEM, LET'S FOCUS CENTRALLY ON HER", at the cost of other character's being not developed as well as they could be. The only two characters that feel developed besides Clem are Kenny and Luke, and Kenny barley counts because he was in Season 1 right from the first episode, so we know much more about him and he's pre-developed, so to speak. Luke was a main focus in Ep. 1 alongside Clem, which is why he feels developed, but he did near NOTHING in Ep. 3.
    SirIntegra posted: »

    Yepp, exactly what I absolutely loathe in telltale games. It's so annyoing to know that if a character is determinant then they're

  • Alvin has even less, and that was his ending
    MrSolomon posted: »

    Then let me list them right here: "Say that again", "Mister, I ain't a boy" (both to Kenny) "Thanks, Bonnie" "It's my fault"

  • MrLeeMrLee Banned
    It is a joke jesus

    .... Really? Are you fucking serious?

  • So he made it through E4 as well? Well dang, he's dead in mine since E2..
  • I would love him to make it past episode 4, but I got a bad feeling he wont :(
    azureai posted: »

    Hopefully not just because they kill him off. :(

  • It's not a funny joke.
    MrLee posted: »

    It is a joke jesus

  • Honestly my main issue with this season (one of my only complaints actually) is that you never get to just sit down and talk with your companions. Even at Carlos's death I still barely knew anything about the guy. Same with Sarita. With Nick at least he's determinant so he's pretty much screwed, they aren't going to put too much effort into writing him now. Just pray he doesn't get the Alvin treatment eventually.

    In Season 1 there were times where you'd walk around and be able to talk with everyone near you. Multiple times in each episode. In all of Season 2 this has happened maybe twice. I don't feel like I know any of these new characters at all really aside from Sarah and Luke (and Walter but whelp).
  • MyushaMyusha Banned
    Alvin: If he dies Rebecca comments on Kenny causing his death, and hating Carver straight away. If he lives he goes out in a blaze of glory.
    Nick: Nothing added or lost for having them around for Episode 3.
  • edited May 2014
    Nope, nope, nope and nope.
    Still not plot holes. As you yourself point out, some of these scenarios are in NEED of explanations, which must mean that there are actually possible explanations to them. Which directly contradicts with you saying that they are inexplicable paradoxes.
    I'm not sure you know what inexplicable or paradox really means.

    1) Simple explanation: gameplay. If you weren't able to kill walkers the gameplay would get old pretty quick. Besides there are not really any scenes where she "overpowers" a walker. She is able to kill them with well aimed blows to the head. Even then, she often has to hit them several times in order to kill them. There's your explanation. Not a plot hole.
    2) This is not an open-world RPG where you have total control of the character. There will be scripted scenes. A good example is Lee getting bitten in episode 4. This is supposed to happen in order to progress the plot. The gun scene is the same. I'll mention it again, Clem was 9 years old. She doesn't have the best judgement in the world. It world makes perfect sense for her to put her gun down while washing her face and then forget to pick it up when she goes looking for the water bottle. There is nothing remotely omissive about this. It actually makes perfect sense.
    You're not supposed to be "immersed in the character". I'm not Clementine. Clem is her own person. She's a well developed character just as Kenny or Luke is. You might have control over some of her actions and might decide some of the "nuances" of her character, but you are NOT her. Same goes with Lee.
    3) Sure, it might be a moment of bad judgement. Guess what. Everybody has them! Lily shooting Carley/Doug, anyone? These are all human beings, they make mistakes like everyone else. This is not a gap in the storyline at all, this is a mistake made by the character, who is human.
    4) This is not a gap nor an inconsistency in the storyline. It's simply good writing. Spoon-feeding you everything that happened in between would be extremely bad writing. The characters know what happened. You, as a player, don't need to know everything that happens all the time. This way, some plots (such as Christa's baby) will be more mysterious and will keep the players guessing, until it is finally revealed, which I'm sure it will be. So, once again, not a plot hole. AT ALL. I sure hope you will never write for a game/movie, because there would be no mysteries keeping the player/audience guessing.
    5) Not an inexplicable paradox, no. This is a video game. Like movies, and TV shows, you sometimes have to accept that the main characters go through ordeals and survives, even though it's unlikely. If everything that happened in every movie/show/game was realistic or every character was smart and made no mistakes (because that must be a plot hole!!!) all movies/shows/games would be extremely boring. Who the fuck wants to watch real life? There would be no drama, and nobody would survive any of the ordeals people are put through in media. If this is what you want, you shouldn't be playing video games.
    6) She doesn't see Clementine as a more favorable food source, but rather as a threat to her food source. It makes sense for her to want to get rid of the threat before eating.
    7) Yes, they did explain. They thought she was sent by Carver. Do you even pay attention when playing this game? Your whole point just went out the window. And Nick is an idiot. Again, a human with flaws. Big one's they might be, but some people are like this.
    8) Alright, he kept dodging zombies without getting bit until he made it out of the alley/building. Maybe he even found something to use as a weapon. There. He got lucky, as he said. Unlikely, but not impossible.
    9) Yes, I agree that this is badly written. Though, again, not really a plot hole. It's easily explainable. Maybe he smuggled himself in under the truck?

    I'm not trying to change anything. I asked cameroncr95 for examples of plot holes, and you came and gave me these. You're the one trying to change the discussion.

    I'll give you an example of what would be a plot hole:
    Next episode, Mark walks into the camp, alive.

    This would directly contradict what we've already seen. We know Mark got his legs cut off. He can't get those back. And we know he died, since we saw him as a walker on the farm.
    This would create a paradox, that indeed is inexplicable. It would literally be impossible to explain.
    Exoddus posted: »

    Let me explain why each of these are plotholes. 1) Clementine becoming very proficient at killing zombies, and strong enough

  • I think you mean E3, but yeah, he made it through.
    Fangster posted: »

    So he made it through E4 as well? Well dang, he's dead in mine since E2..

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