Episode 5 (SPOILER DISCUSSION)

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  • edited March 2018

    How is my Batman encouraging her to kill again by telling her he’s not going to make it easier on her when she becomes his protégée?

    It has nothing to do with privilege or a pat on the back, it has everything to do with second chances especially since she killed a known terroist and murderer of many people including her father and not to mention can help Bruce in either path. I’m not saying my Batman agrees with Tiffany’s actions, far from it, but I don’t believe she’s below redeeming herself and becoming a hero just like her dad.

    Kaelthas posted: »

    Giving her a pat in the back and the privilege of being Batman's protegee sounds like a shitty punishment for a murderer. You're encouraging her to kill again and again everytime she feels angry.

  • ALFRED LEFT ME. 💔 Think I'm going to have to go back and change that.

  • Riddler bombed her father, I don't condone what she did but I would gladly be her mentor.

    Guys i'm really having a hard time deciding if i should turn Tiffany for killing Riddler,The fact that she actually tries to e

  • I agree with you completely. Tiffany shouldn't have murdered the Riddler, but I want to become her mentor. Unlike some others, she recognized that what she did was wrong, and she wanted to change herself.

    Zjaa6 posted: »

    Riddler bombed her father, I don't condone what she did but I would gladly be her mentor.

  • I think either she can go to prison or stay in Waller's task force. There is no option of helping her with her disease thing if that's an outcome you were hoping for, her outcomes are kinda crappy.

    CallMeCoolG posted: »

    One last question : If you know, could you please tell me all Harley's outcomes in Vigilante route? thanks

  • So anyone feel horrible what happen to Regina? I wonder how her husband feels ):

  • The episode was epic. I'm only mad about the screen time that Catwoman got. Seriously... The end of the season! And not a single kiss. Geez.

  • edited March 2018

    THAT'S HOW SEASON 2 ENDS??!
    I just gave up Batman. Cut to black.

    What have I done

    C-c-c'mon Telltale... You sure that's how you wanna end it? Where's the season 3? You're sitting on a goldmine here.
    Th-this isn't right. You're lying! I played by your rules, and this is how you repay me?. You're corrupt.. All of you! I'll bring you the justice you deserve!!!

    For real though I enjoyed this. Maybe didn't end in the right way -- too abrupt -- but what I got I'm content with. John's downfall was beautifully agonizing. Disappointed that he couldn't be like his hero, and his fractured mind leading him down a dark, dark path.. Still, I did maintain that friendship/camaraderie. The post-credits scene was really touching. I don't know how or even if Season 3 will happen, but I really hope so. Somehow. There's just too much that's still left open.
    Major thanks to the Telltale staff on this one. This was a choice-packed episode, and everything felt like it had some sort of an effect. Bravo.
    I've yet to play the Villain route, but once I'm done with that, expect an impression thread or two for Episode 5/Complete S2.

  • KaelthasKaelthas Banned
    edited March 2018

    Can't feel bad. Never liked her to begin with, I was really mad when I found out she was trying to get me fired again. If I was given the option to fire her after I was proved innocent I would have picked it in an instant. But oh well, I guess you can't fire dead people.

    I say

    ANXXX7 posted: »

    So anyone feel horrible what happen to Regina? I wonder how her husband feels ):

  • Sadly with the whole stuff about one save I wonder: how to do?

    Wait! You don't have just one save.

    Go to Settings. That's where the other save files are located.

    Euron posted: »

    Btw I've got a question: seeing that episode 5 is very different depending on the route I want to play it with the villain path.

  • edited March 2018

    Iman Avesta started speaking in the language of Farsi, native to Afghanistan for Eastern Farsi and Iran for Western Farsi. It definitely was an attractive quality in her. However, after having become romantically involved with Selina, I don't think that I would end my relationship with her for Avesta. Especially since she has progressively made improvements in her life, and is being positively influenced by my Bruce. Although, if you ask me, Avesta is a much better love interest for Bruce than Harley, so I'm interested in how their relationship develops. We will just have to wait and see.

    ANXXX7 posted: »

    Amazing game. Enjoyed both seasons. What I really liked: 1. How they put the old soundtracks in. (I was missing that heroic ma

  • Nope. Not really. She was extremely unimportant in the story. So much so that I had fun playing with her while Harley intimidated her back in Ep 2. Bruce didn't. But I did. And her husband was last seen 9 episodes ago for 2 minutes with his pessimistic ass, drinking my wine with that attitude. I wish I coulda asked John to send him a "Get well soon" card at her funeral. I'll be honest though. I wasn't expecting her to die.

    ANXXX7 posted: »

    So anyone feel horrible what happen to Regina? I wonder how her husband feels ):

  • I watched a playthrough of the villain route and it was absolute fantastic! I actually liked it more than the vigilante route and I LOVED the vigilante route!

    Does anyone else think that Joker is weirdly sexual towards Bruce in that? There are a few innuendos here and there and certain dialogue choices that might allude to the idea that Joker is actually in love with Bruce (if you tell Joker that he broke your heart he pretty much implies just that). Much like how in the comics, the Joker is in love with Batman.

    I find it funny because for most of the game he's been pining after Harley and once he's finally got her, their relationship isn't all it's cracked up to be to the point where he betrays her multiple twice.

  • I found that the evil joker route was more exciting and emotional. You get to team up with Selina, and the reveal of Riddler's killer had a better execution. The tea party was an intense scene. The only downside I can think of was the massive amount of casualties the Joker caused.

  • edited March 2018

    Kaelthas posted:
    Giving her a pat in the back and the privilege of being Batman's protegee sounds like a shitty punishment for a murderer. You're encouraging her to kill again and again everytime she feels angry.

    That time when she killed Riddler was pretty much out of revenge for her Father, and I feel for her for losing a family member. I do agree though that she shouldn't have killed him and gotten blood on her hands. I don't know how she found out, but girl did her research.

    However, I think she's pretty sane/stable enough not to go out and do it again, unless she wants to disappoint her family and Bruce, then get thrown into jail. The last episode card for her did say she was trying to repent now for what she did.

    Besides, Lucius' last wish was for her to work with them(?) anyways.

    Kaelthas posted: »

    Giving her a pat in the back and the privilege of being Batman's protegee sounds like a shitty punishment for a murderer. You're encouraging her to kill again and again everytime she feels angry.

  • I havent played villain yet but gosh the bit with Joker and Batman after their fight.. broke me.. and yes he was my friend :( weve built such a relationship over the episodes and I did not like fighting him :( #sadfangirl

  • WOOO THIS EPISODE WAS GREAT, i cant wait to season 3 now batman is over its time for the walking dead , good work telltale

  • edited March 2018

    I agree with you completely. Tiffany acknowledged her faults and desired to change. The Riddler tore her family apart. Her mother hasn't left their house since Lucius' funeral, and Luke (her brother?) just lashes out. Her father's death broke them, all of them. She felt so powerless, like her life was crumbling around her. She wanted to take back control. Unfortunately, she did that by taking revenge on the Riddler by murdering him.

    Revenge is an impulse, one to be checked. Even, though, I don't condone it, I do understand it. By becoming mentored by Bruce, he will help her to "learn right from wrong" (meaning that, she will be disciplined for her behavior), in order to fill her father's shoes. She just needs someone to teach her. It's not "giving her a pat on the back" or "encouraging her to murder again every time that she gets angry". Besides, it was much more than her just "getting angry". Her father was murdered by someone. But again, I don't condone it, but I do understand it.

    Saiyamon posted: »

    Kaelthas posted: Giving her a pat in the back and the privilege of being Batman's protegee sounds like a shitty punishment for

  • I was true to John and Alfred right to the end.

    With John, I placed my trust in him and he became a vigilante. When I confronted Waller on the roof, I did not trade him for Catwoman (even though I told her I loved her in a later scene). And at the end of the battle, I told him he was a friend.

    With Alfred, I talked about taking a vacation with him in the previous episode and gave up being Batman to have him stay. Alfred has looked after Bruce all this time. It's now Bruce's turn to look after Alfred.

  • I knew Tiffany killed Riddler. Evidence:
    1. She wanted revenge for Lucius's death.
    2. She was becoming shady after Lucius's death.
    3. If you tell Tiffany that Riddler killed Lucius, she will say in episode 5 she designed a few guns.
    Do I need to go on?

  • Hate you for it? Most everyone I've seen here on the forums want a continuation!

    Vetominer posted: »

    In my opinion (plz don’t hate me for it) is that season 3 is a must at some point in the future. Ep4 felt like the season 2 final

  • Oddly enough wasn't given the option.

    AnimalBoy posted: »

    Because you have to ask Waller again in the ambulance at the end. The roof deal doesn't count as official.

  • edited March 2018

    I agree. Tiffany is in a dark place after her father's death. Sending her to Blackgate or treating her like just another criminal would definitely shatter her view on justice and Batman's work (as it shows in the ending where you don't take her under your wing). She needs proper mentorship, and Bruce can provide it for her. She made a mistake, but she admits it and wants to atone for it.

    If I gave several second chances to John in S2 and Harvey in S1, how can I deny one to Tifanny?

    Zjaa6 posted: »

    Riddler bombed her father, I don't condone what she did but I would gladly be her mentor.

  • The voice acting in this episode was amazing. Anthony finally got to go all out with Joker, Debra Wilson delivered a thundering performance as Waller once again, but perhaps my favorite voice talent for this episode was Troy Baker. Specifically, those few lines Batman says to Vigilante Joker at Ace Chemicals if you pick the "My justice keeps Gotham safe" dialogue option: "I am justice. What I do keeps Gotham from becoming the swamp it once was. I've given everything to protect this city!"

    Man, that delivery was so good I had to look up a walkthrough just to hear it again!

  • You have to pick the "You owe me" option. Then Waller agrees to let Catwoman go.

    TJ3046 posted: »

    Oddly enough wasn't given the option.

  • Holly moly, I don't know why but I was sure there was only one save. :open_mouth:

    I'll check that tonight, thank you very much sir!

    AChicken posted: »

    Sadly with the whole stuff about one save I wonder: how to do? Wait! You don't have just one save. Go to Settings. That's where the other save files are located.

  • My thoughts in a nutshell

    DanteTimes2 posted: »

    Fuck you Waller. Fuck you Selina. Fuck you Agent Harrison. Fuck you Waller. Fuck you Alfred.

  • I said to Waller that she owes me and she never mentioned Catwomen being released. At the end it says she was still with the agency and Harley went to prison. I didn't care about Selina though...

  • Fun fact: I was willing to forgive all disapppointment in the viglinate playthrough if Waller got killed.
    Was almost crying from the shameful disappointment.

  • edited March 2018

    I'm soooooo late to the party.
    Don't know how to feel about episode yet. Pleased and not at the same time. Right now I'm a bit dissapointed, I expected something much more epic with all the hype and talking about branches and choices which matter. Maybe they are present, buy I don't feel like replaying, so... I won't see them.
    As much as I hate to say it, summing all things together, I think bad things outweighs the good things in this episode.
    Good:

    • Frank <3
    • 2 episodes in 1
    • A lot of funny and awkward moments
    • Chance to choose your relationships with everyone. Be it Waller, Gordon or John Doe. Decide if you're friends or enemies.
    • Opportunity to stay friends with John Doe
    • You can invite Avesta to WE. I think they DID listen to this superhuge Avesta thread after all, and thats sweet, I'm glad ppl get what they wanted. It's a small thing, but it's important.
    • other small things, which didn't matter much to me, because I wasnt' interested in them, like choosing to kick Alfred and Tiffany out, or asking Waller on behalf of friends. I admit, those are the great details - I guess - but I didn't really care for them.
    • John's glorious default hair IS BACK.

    Bad:

    • NOT NEARLY enough fight scenes. Fights lack any epic moments. I loved both Bane fights in ep2 and ep4 way more. In the end, it felt like A BIG FIGHT was teased, but never happened. The whole episode felt like a walk on the beach.
    • Umm... funny, but.... music?... I loved trailer music, it was so epic, but these "Joker themes" in both routes felt so anti-climatic?.. Batman Animated Joker theme was goofy too, but it felt okay and not out of place, unlike these. But vigilante were better.
    • Both routes felt too light and too short. Not enough struggle, not enough tension. Nor Joker, nor Waller, nor Suicide squade felt like a Threat. Mass murdering in villain? Can't say I was impressed or bothered or cared. Terrorism in vigilante? Even less so. Suicide squad? Barely noticed it's presense. In general? No feeling of "Shadow looming over the Gotham". No sense of threat. Show me the horrors, show me the corpses, show me something I care about, lol, we're dealing with freaking Joker!
      I barely noticed anything started at all and the next second the episode ended. The most BIG thing Joker did in villain was at the begining, in the Tower, and the rest of hunting him down was boring and too easy. The final fight with Joker and Harley was easy and not epic enough, too much of a comedy in it. I understand Joker is a comedian, but... It all felt like a, idk, kindergarten fight between two couples. Joker might be funny, but he's also SCARY, and he didn't felt scary at all. Vigilante was better in that way, at least he was capable on his own. Could put up a fight.

    • Villain route in the end felt like a mix of death of the family and the killing joke, but I wasn't impressed. Not sick enough, not intense enough, and Joker cares too much for Batman. It made even less sense, because I played this route as Bad Bruce, and Bad Bruce didn't have friends. So, basically, none of these guys who Joker tortured and tried to turn against me were my friends. Which kinda made his idea pointless.

    • I didn't feel like advising Joker to manipulate others in villain route played any role at all. He's almost as horrible at lying as in the beginning, no Hannibal Lecter vibes here. Disappointing.
    • A lot of lame moments. The whole season suffers from these, but this episode in particular... Too many events in too short time creates plotholes.
    • Ace Chemicals didn't play any role besides being a background for a fight - hightly disspointing
    • Not enough Suicide Squad in vigilante, lol, they appeared for 3 minutes, we kicked they asses, and that was all.
    • Not enough Gordon. NOT NEARLY ENOUGH
    • Harvey Bullock only appears to get his stomach cut opened, weeeeeeee, what a... BIG ROLE.
    • Joker condition wasn't explained despite all the forshadowing with the virus and Ace Chemicals and Lotus experimenting. Not even a hint.
    • not enough Joker's screentime, not enough partnering with him in vigilante.
    • It didn't matter if you were violent or not around John, he screams about violence no matter what, which makes non-violent approach pretty pointless. And also made me in my viginalte route cringe, becaus - WUT?
    • Joker breaks his character in vigilante. I understand why, they needed him as a villain, but it's not the way to do it. Batman goes first for Joker, always. The reason he BECAME vigilante is BATMAN, not desire for justice. They could have done it in a more convincing way. At least.
    • Rushed Joker character in both paths. In villain he's a little less rushed.
    • Hate to say it, but pretty stupid Joker in both routes. With all foreshadowing of how smart he is... Ew.
    • A LOT of characters, and not nearly enough screentime for any of them.
    • Not enough Batman in villain route.
    • Joker not being scary in villain route. I understand he just began his career, but, seriously. His intro was good, but after he felt less and less like a danger.
    • In villain it felt like Joker cared about Batman more than in vigilante, lol.
    • NO FREEZE. At all. Well, that was LAME!
    • in the end I didn't feel like my choices matter. For example, in my Big Bad Bruce route I was an asshole to everyone, but that didn't change how characters treated me. Selina was still all buddy-buddy with me, Gordon too, so was Tiffany and the Joker treated me like we were best pals. Didn't matter in the end if I blamed Selina or not, or if I were a true friend to John or not. Or if I romanced Selina or not - game still considers us lovers. That's really breaks an immersion. On the contrary, no matter if I treated John well, he still says I used him - like, HOW, DUDE? And no matter how care you for Alfred, how you treat him, he still decides to leave. Seriously? Why, thanks, Al! HOW IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE YOU OLD TRAITOR???

    In the end I don't know which route I liked more. Both had good and bad moments. Probably I liked vigilante more, despite how bad they handled Joker grudge against Batman. At least in vigilante he can fight. In villain he's.. I don't know... Let's just say, he's faaaaaaaar away from the Joker. He didn't evolve yet. And Harley as his crutch doesn't help. I don't mind Harley and Joker, but here she's clearly slows him down.

    Well, I get QTE fights with Joker both against him and alongside him, I stayed friends with him, aaaaaaaand, I guess, I AM PLAYING MONOPOLY GAME WITH HIM AFTER ALL! In Arkham! So, despite everything, I'm pleased. This last scene just made my day.
    And John's hair is back.
    Bittersweet ending with Bruce giving up the mantle of Batman.
    Hope it's not the end.

  • Too light? Have you not seen all the bodies at Wayne Enterprises? Did you play blind and did not see the pictures of many places that they blew up?

    Im Death Of the Family Joker does almost exactly the same thing and it is not "much more brutal and cruel", he does not cut off their faces after all. And in the Killing Joke he does exactly the same thing, he cripples Barbara (here it is Jim) and tries to drive Jim mad (here it is Bruce). Also Joker always cares for Batman and rarely really tries to kill him, more torture and toy with him.

    Also reread this whole "thing" you have wrote, you pointed out like 25 bad things about an episode, but you are repeting yourself in half of them, saying the same things twice just for this list to be longer, not good.

    Either way, stop whining. The episode is great despite abrupt endings to some storylines

    Tiefling posted: »

    I'm soooooo late to the party. Don't know how to feel about episode yet. Pleased and not at the same time. Right now I'm a bit di

  • Nope, I've seen the bodies. But it's not the body count what makes things horrible, it how everything presented. What Joker did to Bullock was much more sick than Wayne Enterprises.
    What I'm saying - I'm not impressed. I was impressed with Arkham Origins Joker, for example.
    You got me wrong - I'm not whining - just suming up what I liked and what I didn't.) It's my raw impression after playing the episode, so guess it's a bit unorganized, but it's honest.

    0v3rp0w3r posted: »

    Too light? Have you not seen all the bodies at Wayne Enterprises? Did you play blind and did not see the pictures of many places t

  • Sorry
    Well these bodies were enough for me to imagine what happened.
    I do not remember what Arkham Origins Joker did that was much worse than what Telltale's did to be honest (apart from what he did with Sionis), he too blew up a building, killed a few people. He did staged a riot at Blackgate, made Batman kill Bane and that was it. Just correct me if I am wrong

    Tiefling posted: »

    Nope, I've seen the bodies. But it's not the body count what makes things horrible, it how everything presented. What Joker did to

  • I stayed friends with John Doe on the vigilante route. Honestly John and Bruce's friendship elevated this game by a lot and I genuinely care for the guy. He may be Joker or become it in the future, but I just like this tragic ending and the final scene where Bruce visits him is great.

    Alfred left me, I am sorry, but after I promised to take Tiffany under my wing I can't abandon being Batman and honestly Alfred deserves a vacation, a permanent one in Hawaii where he just gets to enjoy his life and doesn't have to stress out over Bruce destroying himself.

    One thing that I found peculiar is that I got Catwoman as a Provler (told her I loved her and asked for her freedom) and apparently only 3% of people got that. What did you guys do and what happens to her in the villain route could someone tell me that? Do you perhaps get a little more of her, because seriously we didn't even get an ending scene for her which was disappointing, but oh well I can imagine she will come back to/stay in Gotham and we can meet up again :3

  • Np.
    I kinda into horror stuff, so. Dissapointed.
    I don't remember AO storyline that well myself. He blew up a lot of things, but he also made everything in a very sick way - TV's instead of heads on dead bodies, a lot of decorations made out of corpses. A lot of creepy decorations in general, very inventive. Laughing gas is powerful tool of terror too, btw - much more than just killing gas, which TT Joker used here.

    0v3rp0w3r posted: »

    Sorry Well these bodies were enough for me to imagine what happened. I do not remember what Arkham Origins Joker did that was m

  • Well yeah, Telltale's Joker lacks this kind of style, but only because we already knew him as John. It would be more out of character for him to do much crazier shit after just 3 weeks since he jumped off of a bridge with Harley.

    Tiefling posted: »

    Np. I kinda into horror stuff, so. Dissapointed. I don't remember AO storyline that well myself. He blew up a lot of things, bu

  • You spend a lot more time with her in the villain ending than the vigilante one, but it's still kind of abrupt. Before the final fight she tells you to call her so you two can hook up later.

    ComicMan posted: »

    I stayed friends with John Doe on the vigilante route. Honestly John and Bruce's friendship elevated this game by a lot and I genu

  • Yeah, that's why I'm saying he's yet have to evolve.

    0v3rp0w3r posted: »

    Well yeah, Telltale's Joker lacks this kind of style, but only because we already knew him as John. It would be more out of character for him to do much crazier shit after just 3 weeks since he jumped off of a bridge with Harley.

  • brb replaying the villain route now lol. No, but honestly I wish she got more on the vigilante path, but my John Doe is a friend so I don't think I can bring myself to do a villain path, maybe later :'(

    Putinovich posted: »

    You spend a lot more time with her in the villain ending than the vigilante one, but it's still kind of abrupt. Before the final fight she tells you to call her so you two can hook up later.

  • Shame you couldn't get it on with Harley though. I wish that was a possible ending. :D

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