Did YOU ever consider John a friend?

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  • I hope I didn't already post in this thread. I considered John a friend, and I still do. I went the vigilante route. Personally speaking, I have a lot of bad in myself. Despite everything, a small part of me wants someone to never give up on me; to prove me wrong whenever I think I am helpless and hopeless. It's why I understood him so well, I believe that some people just need someone to go that extra mile. Realistically - if it was possible to turn him around, it'd be worth the trouble. John's a good guy with a messed up head, full of rage, confusion, and sadness. He really crossed the fucking line, but I understand.

  • did both, and never really consider him my friend. I mean, I played one time as if my Bruce had some sort of feeling for him, but if this was real life, not sure I could be his friend. even though certain moments kinda touched me with certain things he said or the sadness he felt .

  • But he refused to give it back even before Waller pulled a gun on him.

    Gudmooore posted: »

    If you wait in Ace Chemicals for Joker and Waller to finish talking, Joker outright says that he was going to give her the virus before she pulled the gun on him.

  • He refused her commanding him to do something. Think Batman would have given her the virus either? She didn't even give him 5 seconds to think before she whipped her gun out and tried to shoot him.

    Putinovich posted: »

    But he refused to give it back even before Waller pulled a gun on him.

  • Well I did. When he killed the 3 agents at the Chemical Plant, I saw the anguish and disappointment on batmans face. This is perhaps the result of doing everything he can to steer Joker away from the edge

  • Yes, yes, a million times yes. From the very beginning I was upset about the fact that I had to use John for reaching my goals. I got really attached to him and the ending nearly broke my heart. Whoever created that scene after the credits is my God now.

  • Of course, John is just awesome. It's hard to not like him, he did so much for Bruce without asking anything in return. He's honest and helps you out in everything he can. Sure, he killed some Agents but who cares?

  • I went into this with the intent of making john a villain because that's the ultimate toxic relationship Batman and Joker but when I played through season 2 John was so freaking adorable he was like a big kid you just want to protect when they the fission came down to it I made him a vigilante because I wanted to still remain his friend even choosing to stay friends with him and visiting him in Arkham but I went back and made him a villain it broke my heart I was in actual tears seeing my friend upset

  • Same for me! I was a little disappointed with how the episode ended, but then that final scene popped up and he was so happy to see me. It just melted my poor heart.

    lilsnek posted: »

    Definitely yes, with all my heart. Despite how it all went, the ending scene when Bruce goes to visit him in Arkham makes me so happy. Maybe they can maintain some sort of a friendship.. John's happy "Bruce!!" and that smile gives me life.

  • edited June 2018

    I did Believe him even though there was no option to put on the cowl and do some detective work to find out what really happened. Pretty sure TT didnt want it to be so black and white and create doubt for the player.

    I believed him because i saw that he wasnt the type of person to outright lie to you. He also kept his promises about assisting you in tracking riddler.

    Bruno113 posted: »

    I really did considered him a friend. He wanted to introduce you to his friends so called pact. He was taking selfies with you.

  • From the first moment I met John back in S1E4, while I was grateful to him for him saving Bruce from the inmates, the Arkham series had left me wary and I thought "John Doe" was just a regular Joker playing the long game. That feeling only got stronger at the end of S1E5, when he said he was looking forward to seeing Bruce again, and then the episode ended on that laugh. I just felt... uneasy around him. I guess I shouldn't talk, being autistic.

    In Season 2 Episode 1, still in that mindset, I was pissed at John that he used Bruce as his reference for getting out of Arkham and showed up at Lucius' funeral making jokes, so I wanted nothing to do with him. And at the end of the episode, partly because of the shadow and partly because of what Riddler said, I wondered if it might have been John who killed Riddler.

    Beyond that, I tried to get along with John, if only not to get on Harley's bad side and blow Bruce's cover. However, in Episodes 2 and 3, John began to grow on me, especially after the talk at the cafe. As Batman, I broke his phone, but then felt bad and, despite knowing I might regret it, showed him how to use a batarang as a way to make it up to him.

    In episode 4, I wanted to help him get over Harley, and after he killed the Agency agents, I wanted to believe it was in self defense, but I couldn't, so I got the Villain Joker ending, and in episode 5, I told Joker that I wished we'd never met. And I do. He'd been nothing but trouble for Bruce from the start, the same way Catwoman had been.

    I might end up playing it again. Maybe.

  • That was exactly how I felt.

    Joonlar posted: »

    Not at all. Dude is beyond unstable, he could never be my friend. I used him all the way.

  • Tiffany killed one person in order to get justice for her father. John went along with the plans of his friends who were homicidal (which, if he helped, makes him an accomplice), and became homicidal. I don't like the false equivalency so many people (pro-John usually) make re Tiffany. John needs a whole more than just a friend. I personally think the world would be better off without people like John.

    Bandicoot88 posted: »

    I don't know how anyone could say otherwise... I mean he was talking pas-tense. "Did you ever," not "Am I" Of course John was my f

  • Nah, I used him the whole time haha. He was so needy.

  • Yep. I trusted John, and despite brutally murdering those three agents at the chemical plant. I still see him as a friend I can trust to keep things safe.

  • I was John's friend until the very end. Also, with the vigilante ending, do you see Bruce visit John in Arkham when you tell John that you were never friends?

  • one word,yes.

  • No. You have to tell him you're still friends for that to happen.

    I was John's friend until the very end. Also, with the vigilante ending, do you see Bruce visit John in Arkham when you tell John that you were never friends?

  • I used all four of the save files you get with each telltale game and I re-name them as follows.

    Save File 1 - Good (in this case) Batman
    Save File 2 - Bad (in this case) Batman
    Save File 3 - Good And Bad (in this case) Batman
    Save File 4 - 50/50 (in this case) Batman#

    Good Batman - He did consider John a friend. However when John killed those agents he had broken Bruce/Batman's code and rule 'no killing' He couldn't allow his personal relationship/friendship to get in the way of him doing his duty which is why he couldn't trust him and had to try and take him down and in.

    He even told John in the alleyway when he met him as Batman to get the laptop

    "I serve the greater good John. I can't let my feelings get in the way of that. If someone i care about is on the wrong side. That makes them my enemy."

    Roughly translated somebody break the law they are a criminal and he must take them in especially if they break his one rule like Harvey and Tiffany and John did.

    Bad Batman - He never trusted John and he never considered him a friend from the very beginning to when he told John he didn't trust him in the fun house he used him. He probably could have lied and continued to use him to get Harley but this Bruce Wayne believes the real him is Batman and thinks that the only person who can help/save Gotham is him although he doesn't mind working with Waller due to the fact they are very similar in their points of view and opinion of how the means justify the ends and visa versa.

    Good And Bad Batman - He did consider John a friend and while good Batman doesn't let his heart rule his head this Batman let's is heart rule his head which is why in the fun house he trusted and believed John after all a person is innocent until proven guilty and while it is 'arguable' John did not kill those agents in self defence the only witness to the 'crime' is John. Not to mention the fact this Bruce Wayne/Batman believes everybody can be saved he tried to help Harvey by sending him to Arkham and funding a better Arkham. An he also tried to help John right up to the very end telling him how he wouldn't abandon him and that he did consider him a friend and visited him in Arkham after having given up Batman for Alfred.

    50/50 Batman - This Bruce Wayne is a thrill seeker and uses Batman as a means of getting those 'thrills' he doesn't mind doing things like brutalising Falcone or breaking a sniper's arm. Although part of the reason he broke the sniper's arm is because he hates guns and people who use them. While he is a bit of a law breaker himself at the same time there is a part of him that respects the law and believes that if you break it you should pay for it. Which is why he tells Gordon to put Harvey in prison when he is captured and he funds a stronger GCPD police force. Although when Avesta asks him why in season 2 he claims it is because he likes the attention. Although he never made the promise to John he does admit that he owes him due to the fact despite not making the promise John still made it possible for him to use the phone and call Gordon to get him out of Arkham. When Waller comes to town he is split down the middle and does his best to try and please both Gordon and Waller and tries to get them to work together. He still breaks the law himself by warning Catwoman Gordon is coming for him but only for his own ends. Those being he can get the laptop after which he refuses to work with her due to the fact he doesn't trust her and hasn't ever since she admitted to having used him to get into Wayne Enterprises and steal the key. He also allows her to take the fall so that he can try and stop the pack once inside Sanctus. All the while he is trying to infiltrate and stop the pact he doesn't trust John nor does he consider him a friend. He see's him as simply a means to an end an unpredictable means to an end as he tells Alfred when they're talking about using John to infiltrate the pack but still a means to an end. An it is for this reason he tells John he believes him it is simply so that he can get John's help to stop Harley after which he does his best to try and get rid of John going so far as to make a deal with Waller that deal being she won't go after Avesta professionally or personally in exchange he will give her Doe. An at the end after having battled Joker he tells him how they were never friends and that he was/is a criminal and was a means to an end.

  • Oh course he was my friend. Maybe I actually am a messed up guy just like him.

  • This is because Bruce Wayne was too far gone too in this game...

    SazukeEX posted: »

    Yes. I wanted to save him but he was too far gone.

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