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posted by kaptein_kaffe on - last edited - Viewed by 5.1K users
Discussing religion is generally a very bad idea on the internet, but there are a lot of down to earth and rational people on this forum so I decided to give it a go.

I want to hear your beliefs. Also, try to keep an open mind and show respect to other people's opinions. I don't care weather you're a fanatic catholic, fanatic atheist or whatever. Arguing about "who's right" is just a terrible cliche.

Personally I believe that there is a god. I'm not agnostic, I believe in god, but that's just my own spiritual reflection on it. I don't judge other religions and say that "this is right", it's more along the lines of Baruch de Spinoza's take on it where you see god as everything. Maybe there's a word for what that is, I don't know. I prefer to look at everything that is beyond our understanding with humility. Most of my religious knowledge lies within catholicism and I generally agree with the ten commandments, but I also believe that the religion is blurred for the sake of politics, ways of maintaining order and fanatic influences (edit: + things that are lost in translation). In short, I'm a read between the lines kind of guy.

My knowledge on the subject is limited, so it's possible that I won't be able to keep up with the discussion. I'd just like to hear your views :)
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  • Personally, I believe the existence of god(s) is very unlikely. My main reason for this is that there is not a shred of evidence for their existance. While there is no evidence against god(s) either, the same goes for gnomes, unicorns, and talking animals, so IMO god is no more likely to exist than either of those. I consider oranized religion a very evil thing, but the beliefs and believers themselves are generally harmless and OK.
  • Avistew;301384 said:
    Plus, you will see evidence where other people won't. Such as miracles, and things like that.

    Therein lies the key, I think.

    The Bible even says:

    1 Corinithians 1:18-19
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."
    (quote refers to Isaiah 29:14)
  • I was in church the other day, and at one point we talked, among other things about rituals.

    In the Bible, it says:

    14Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' "
    18b "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") 20He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' 21For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' "

    Mark 14-15,18b-23

    This, among other passages in the Bible explain why Christians don't worry about eating pork or other foods that aren't "kosher".
  • Until it mentioned the word stomach, I was convinced he was talking about sex.
    I guess it's typical, coming from me.
  • But wait, then why was it unclean before...?
  • Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
  • As, somehow after 4 pages everyone is still talking about religion, I thought I'd contribute. I have no religion and believe in nothing, the idea of God makes absolutely no sense to me - I wouldn't believe anything else without any proof so why would this be any different?

    I think the ideas in the Bible (I can't comment on other religions' texts as I know too little about them) are in general positive. The morals are often outdated but they can be adjusted slightly in order to retain their original meaning while being more relevant to 21st century life. I think of it more as a self-help book rather than a document of fact.

    To some extent I do envy those who believe because it must be comforting but I know there's no way I'd ever be able to.
  • Religion makes factual claims, and these are the very things that science test. There are parts of religion that are not scientific (due to not being objectively factual) such as how to live your life, how to care for others, etc. but there are parts which are just full on factual claims, such as God exists, the earth is 6,000 years old, when you die you will be greeted by 72 raisins, etc.
    For each of these claims there is no reason to treat them any differently than one would treat any other scientific hypothesis. That is with skepticism, until the level of evidence is enough to push the hypothesis towards being a likely answer.
    That doesn't mean you believe something to be false, you just don't believe it to be true. If I brought a box along that you hadn't seen before, and asked if you would bet money that there's a set of Sam and Max plush toys in there, would you? Probably not. Would you bet money that there isn't a set in there? Again probably not. You instantly take the most reasonable stance; you do not believe anything about the contents of the box, or about the lack of particular items in the box.
    That is agnosticism, and atheism.
  • Why is that it seems the agnostics and atheists are the most vocal/confrontational/belittling/belligerent on this thread? It's like you think you have something to prove and are therefore compelled to try to get a rise out of people.

    Fortunately, it hasn't been very successful, but my point still stands.

    ...Whatever happened to trying to have an intelligent and civil conversation?
  • hm... Well I was just asking a question out of curiosity. Honestly, I find myself to be more curious about why people believe things, though I can understand why some agnostic/atheist folk may be more vocal. When you're a minority, you tend to speak up about you believe otherwise you won't be heard. Especially if you're a minority that is demonized by a good majority. If you don't say anything, you'll just get swallowed up.

    Some things said might seem harsh, but I've seen harsh words said from just about any point of view, and one harsh comment from one person may be the right thing to say to another.
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