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posted by kaptein_kaffe on - last edited - Viewed by 5K users
Discussing religion is generally a very bad idea on the internet, but there are a lot of down to earth and rational people on this forum so I decided to give it a go.

I want to hear your beliefs. Also, try to keep an open mind and show respect to other people's opinions. I don't care weather you're a fanatic catholic, fanatic atheist or whatever. Arguing about "who's right" is just a terrible cliche.

Personally I believe that there is a god. I'm not agnostic, I believe in god, but that's just my own spiritual reflection on it. I don't judge other religions and say that "this is right", it's more along the lines of Baruch de Spinoza's take on it where you see god as everything. Maybe there's a word for what that is, I don't know. I prefer to look at everything that is beyond our understanding with humility. Most of my religious knowledge lies within catholicism and I generally agree with the ten commandments, but I also believe that the religion is blurred for the sake of politics, ways of maintaining order and fanatic influences (edit: + things that are lost in translation). In short, I'm a read between the lines kind of guy.

My knowledge on the subject is limited, so it's possible that I won't be able to keep up with the discussion. I'd just like to hear your views :)
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  • Lena_P;317072 said:
    I'd like to point out that it's possible to be offensive and demonstrate your point of view. I could tell my friend I don't think that dress suits her, or I could tell her it makes her look like a water buffalo.

    Everybody's got a water buffalo
    Yours is fast but mine is slow
    Oh, where do you get them I don't know
    But everyone's got a water buffalo-oooooooooo
    I took my buffalo to the store
    Got his head stuck in the door
    Spilled some lima beans on the floor
    Oh everybody's got a water buffalo...
  • I personally found Pale Man's post obviously provocative. It seemed to me it was meant to offend people who are Christians more than state his position on the subject. While I can't say I was personally offended, I wasn't impressed either.

    I understand why that post would be shocking, but I see no reason to turn it into
    Chyron said:
    Why is that it seems the agnostics and atheists are the most vocal/confrontational/belittling/belligerent on this thread? It's like you think you have something to prove and are therefore compelled to try to get a rise out of people.
    Which I personally found confrontational, addressing agnostics and atheists as a whole ("you") and making a blanket statement (the agnostics and atheists).
    I feel if you want to respond to Pale Man's post instead of ignoring him, then do so, but I really don't see why you should turn that into "the atheists and agnostics". It seems to me most people here, no matter what their beliefs are, have been keeping it civil.
  • Point taken. I'm sorry.

    On topic, for the record I don't believe that the Earth is only ~10,000 years old, nor do I believe that everything in the Bible is meant to be taken literally (eg. the Adam and Eve creation story.)

    I do have specific beliefs on the subject, but with that being said, I also believe that God could have created the universe and everything in it in any manner that he wanted to. If he wanted to create the universe in 6 24-hour time periods, he could have. If he wanted create everything over the span of hundreds of billions of years (or more) then he could have. Either way, I would say the important thing is that he did.

    For societies to literally get into wars and stuff over how he did it (or other similar doctrinal minutia) seems absurd to me.
  • Chyron8472;317132 said:
    Either way, I would say the important thing is that he did.
    Why's that? (in the most sincere way possible)
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    About the 6000 year old Earth thing; I've heard that the bible makes no such claim. The idea comes from an estimate made by an Irish bishop in the 17th century, which he based on his interpretation of the genealogical records in the bible.

    I find it strange that some christians are so intent on unconditionally believing this claim. Were bishops hundreds of years ago infallible? Really?
  • I find it funny, especially because a lot of the Old Testament people lived like eight hundred years or something.
  • Chyron8472;317132 said:
    Point taken. I'm sorry.
    Thanks :) I was worried we'd end up in a big argument, and I know sometimes it's easier than going "okay let's shake ends" so I appreciate that.
    Giant Tope;317136 said:
    Why's that? (in the most sincere way possible)
    Because otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation? :p

    More seriously, from a theoretical point of view, I can see how the details might not matter. On the other hand, if God is all powerful and did create the universe, and we end up having an idea of how, it might be interesting to analyse. I mean, he could do it in any possible way, maybe he did it that way for a reason.

    This being said, I don't think we can randomly come up with the way he did it, or say that because it's written that way it has to be that way even if there seems to be evidence against it. As Chyron said, it could be a metaphor. There is also the possibility that the Bible being written by men, they misinterpreted things. And finally, some things could have been lost in translation. So while I'd understand, once there is a reason to believe things happened a certain way, the idea of talking about why, I don't think it's worth killing each other because you don't agree about how you think things were done.

    To give an example, we have reasons to believe Earth is spherical (or close to). So I understand saying that it's so all life is connected and there is no beginning and end, and so people are closer to one another, as opposed to the flat idea.
    However I don't think it was worth torturing people over what shape they thought the Earth might be before we knew.
  • Avistew;317156 said:
    Because otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation? :p
    I... what?

    I wanted to hear what he believed in greater detail. :( I wanted to further the conversation.
    Alcoremortis;317153 said:
    I find it funny, especially because a lot of the Old Testament people lived like eight hundred years or something.
    This was always kinda weird to me.
  • *insert apostle's creed here*

    There ya go!
  • I'd prefer a personal statement, if you would please.
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