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KQ6: Overrated?

posted by Anakin Skywalker on - last edited - Viewed by 9.9K users
I know I'm committing blasphemy in the eyes of many KQ die hards by saying this, but am I alone in feeling that KQ6 is overrated? KQ6 kind of reminds me of TSL--It's a little too dark, it's dialogue is a little too formal and clinical (it's a bit too wordy and not to the point as the previous games), it strives--and goes overboard--in trying to get a mature, "epic" feel. It loses that fun, bright, mindless, lighthearted fairy tale feel which characterized the previous games, especially KQV (which is IMO the pinnacle of the series in many ways).

It's kind of like KQ meets GK (a series I've personally never cared for) in some ways with it's story of political intrigue, a dark murderous plot, and a secret society. It takes things into an adult sort of direction--As in, more catered to adults rather than the whole family as the previous games were.

That's not to say it doesn't have it's light moments--of course it does. But the lighthearted moments don't feel nearly as innocent or as natural as in KQV or KQVII--They feel almost kind of forced.

I actually find KQVII to be a better KQ sequel than VI. KQ7 to me is like Roberta meets Don Bluth--which IMO is a good mix.

I'll put it this way: KQVI opened the door to TSL. That makes it bad enough:p
268 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • But it was true. We weren't a big enough market.
    Armakuni;538177 said:
    I suspect it's not genre hate at work, he probably feels the same way I do - I don't hate any genres, I just avoid the ones I don't find interesting - but what I hate is when I fall in love with a series of games and then they suddenly decide to make a sequel in a completely different genre.
    That's not genre hate, is it?

    It's a very natural reaction in my opinion... it's not unreasonable to expect a sequel to a game you love to fall in the same genre.

    Imagine if the next... say the next Need for Speed game... if that turned out to be a completely dry and overly complex management game... I imagine a lot of Need for Speed fans would dislike that particular entry in the series.
    That may very well be. But Chyron was saying that King's Quest is "supposed to be an adventure game." Which is also a baseless argument to make for why MOE isn't a good game, which was the topic of discussion.
    DAISHI;538180 said:
    Did you like Longest Journey?
    Still haven't played through it. Everyone says it was the last great adventure game, though. I did say "almost extinct".
  • the fact that it strays so far from the core series' genre yet isn't officially marketed as a spin-off (KQ8 it is not) is almost a slap in the face to the adventure gaming commmunity at large, as we were apparently not a big enough niche market to be worthy of making a proper KQ8 game for
    Again you have to blame Roberta for that, she wanted the game to be Doom-like back in 1994! She had ideas for adding in action and combat back in 1995 even (she was looking at games from all types of genres) !

    She felt the series would die if she didn't 'evolve' it, with new features.

    The Davidsons apparently wanted to cut that 'violence' out of the game due to their conservative Christian beliefs (and a belief it was going to be another 'immoral' Phantasmagorial), if they had completed their version, the game may have been closer to older games, but wouldn't have been Roberta's vision, and she would have had her name removed from the game.

    So if you feel your face was slapped, it was slapped by the hands of Roberta!

    Ken Williams himself thought Adventure gaming was dead, and when he owned the company, he was thinking of ending the development of them, and going into more 'profitable' endeavors. That's why he supported Roberta's new ideas for 'evolving' KQ into the next generation of games, rather than see it be killed off completely.

    Honestly, what you thought KQ8 'should be", and what Roberta thought KQ8 "should be" are two very different things!

    You have to understand back then, even the best adventure games, such as Grim Fandango were losing money. Grim Fandagon only sold half as much as KQ8. I don't even think it made back the money they put into it...

    Then the few that were successful... Phantas cost something like 4 million to make. It was making it back, but the Davidsons stopped marketing it because they believed it was satanic and violent... So they pretty much ruined the possibility of more Phantas sequels after the second one...
  • MusicallyInspired;538190 said:
    But it was true. We weren't a big enough market.



    That may very well be. But Chyron was saying that King's Quest is "supposed to be an adventure game." Which is also a baseless argument to make for why MOE isn't a good game, which was the topic of discussion.



    Still haven't played through it. Everyone says it was the last great adventure game, though. I did say "almost extinct".
    Storywise I think it's the most ambitious. I don't know if I'd say it's the last great one, I think there have been great ones since then, but in terms of scope I never played anything else quite like it. It retained all the classical adventure puzzling, figuring out what combined with what to manipulate in your inventory and environment, but it always had a really robust storyline going on behind it that really didn't let up even to the last scene.
  • BagginsKQ;538191 said:
    Again you have to blame Roberta for that, she wanted to that to the game to be Doom-like back in 1994! She had ideas for adding in action and combat back in 1995 even (she was looking at games from all types of genres) !

    She felt the series would die if she didn't 'evolve' it, with new features.

    The Davidsons apparently wanted to cut that 'violence' out of the game due to their conservative Christian beliefs (and a belief it was going to be another 'immoral' Phantasmagorial), if they had completed their version, the game may have been closer to older games, but wouldn't have been Roberta's vision, and she would have had her name removed from the game.

    So if you feel your face was slapped, it was slapped by the hands of Roberta!

    Ken Williams himself thought Adventure gaming was dead, and when he owned the company, he was thinking of ending the development of them, and going into more 'profitable' endeavors. That's why he supported Roberta's new ideas for 'evolving' KQ into the next generation of games.

    Honestly, what you thought KQ8 'should be", and what Roberta thought KQ8 "should be" are two very different things!
    Baggins, Roberta herself said there wasn't another team designing an alternate KQ8.
  • BagginsKQ;538191 said:

    Ken Williams himself thought Adventure gaming was dead, and when he owned the company, he was thinking of ending the development of them, and going into more 'profitable' endeavors. That's why he supported Roberta's new ideas for 'evolving' KQ into the next generation of games.

    Honestly, what you thought KQ8 'should be", and what Roberta thought KQ8 "should be" are two very different things!
    Correct. But Roberta never really thought of adventure games as being strictly no combat, no violence, etc. From what we see, her definition of the genre was rather loose--She often times called it an interactive story. And her definition of what makes a KQ was loose too.

    Having loose boundaries is good for a series to survive and prosper. The fans were just too close minded to accept anything that wasn't KQ6 Part II.

    I don't think Roberta wanted to change KQ8 to combat to a 3D game with action because that's what surveys said were the best thing to do. In 1994, when she decided KQ8 was going to be 3D and probably have combat, Doom was just a fad--Nothing more. Myst was selling much, much greater than Doom and even became the best selling game of all time the very next year.

    I think Roberta went with combat and 3D in KQ8 not to "sell out", but simply because it's what she wanted to do.
  • MusicallyInspired;538190 said:
    That may very well be. But Chyron was saying that King's Quest is "supposed to be an adventure game." Which is also a baseless argument to make for why MOE isn't a good game, which was the topic of discussion.
    It's not baseless. The King's Quest core series should be an adventure game series. If they want to make a spin-off, then so be it. They didn't. They made a game with an extremely different feel to it and tried to market it to the adventure gaming community--for which the series is so popular--when it is not an adventure game, by trying to market the game as the next game in the series.

    It would be akin to making a "The Sims:King's Quest 9" game. I don't hate the genre but it's not the droids I'm looking for.
  • Chyron8472;538199 said:
    It's not baseless. The King's Quest core series should be an adventure game series. If they want to make a spin-off, then so be it. They didn't. They made a game with an extremely different feel to it and tried to market it to the adventure gaming community--for which the series is so popular--when it is not an adventure game, by trying to market the game as the next game in the series.

    It would be akin to making a "The Sims:King's Quest 9" game. I don't hate the genre but it's not the droids I'm looking for.
    Define an adventure game. More to the point, define a King's Quest.
    I personally think the person who basically created graphic adventure games, and who created the KQ series, is the best at defining at what it is, and what it should be. And she laid it out very clearly in 1997 for the fans.

    Not only that, but it's not like there was any secret made of there being combat in KQ8. It wasn't like Sierra trotted it out as just another KQ until the day of release. I don't see how it can be considered a "slap in the face to the fans."

    When Roberta removed text from the KQ series and made everything point and click, was it a slap in the face? How about when the series went a little darker and less family friendly with KQ6? Or the overhaul that KQ7 was?

    Was it a slap in the face when Roberta removed the option to kill innocent creatures from the series in KQ4? What if I want the option to do violence in a KQ game?

    PS--A group of fans already made a Sims version of a King's Quest game. It's called TSL.
  • The King's Quest core series should be an adventure game series. If they want to make a spin-off, then so be it. They didn't. They made a game with an extremely different feel to it and tried to market it to the adventure gaming community--for which the series is so popular--when it is not an adventure game, by trying to market the game as the next game in the series.
    You keep on saying, "they", but it's Roberta Williams, you can also stretch that to Ken Williams.

    Roberta didn't want to make a spinoff. There was never an intent to make a spinoff. She had an idea for a new kind of 'adventure' game, the '3D Adventure', that she hoped would help save an already 'dead' genre. It was always her intent for it to be a core game in the series.

    Again your definition of what the series was supposed to be and her 'definition' are two very different things.

    By the way, did you know there were Interactive Fiction (Infocom) purists that didn't like Graphic Adventures, seeing them as an abomination to the pure nature of the old Infocom text-adventure games?

    Did you know there were people who thought KQ5 wasn't a true adventure game because of the 'parser' was removed?
  • BagginsKQ;538202 said:
    You keep on saying, "they", but it's Roberta Williams, you can also stretch that to Ken Williams.

    Roberta didn't want to make a spinoff. There was never an intent to make a spinoff. She had an idea for a game, that would help save an already 'dead' genre. It was always her intent for it to be a core game in the series.

    Again your definition of what the series was supposed to be and her 'definition' are two very different things.
    In fact, didn't fans ask her if KQ was getting too old around 1996 or 1997 and she said no? It doesn't seem to me like she ever felt that KQ8 was anything but KQ8. She could've easily given up on KQ entirely and started a brand new series. There was no need for Mask to be called KQ8 if she didn't feel it was one. Look at Phantasmagoria--Different series but it sold over a million in the first month and was Sierra's biggest seller of all time. The Roberta Williams' name was very big in the '90s, big enough that if she wanted to do a spin-off, or simply make another series, she could've.

    I mean, Roberta's not one to sell a product that she doesn't feel fits in it's series. She's always liked change. Every KQ game--with perhaps the exceptions of KQ2 and KQ6--took radical steps technologically.
  • Yes, Anakin. I already posted a quote from an interview in 1997. Where they were asking her why she even bothered to make anymore KQ games. They thought they were outdated, and unoriginal.
    KQ2 and KQ6
    KQ2 actually did push the technology in several ways at the time. Mainly in size of the game, the introduction of a proper introduction cutscene, and dynamic changing world (characters appear or change, based on actions completed in the game). It also packed in more music apparently, required a little more memory and resources.

    KQ6 pushed the technology through its fully rendered introduction scene, very dynamic scripted storytelling, multimedia aspects (CD-rom version especially), and multiple endings.
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