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The Great Sherlock Thread

edited June 2013 in General Chat
Oh, hello, I didn't see you there!

You either clicked on this thread for one of three reasons. You either;
A. Was curious about it's contents and had no interest in the topic.
B. Thought this thread was discussing the Ritchie films
or C. Wished to discuss the masterful BBC and PBS produced 'Sherlock' series, ran by Mark Gatiss and Steven Moffat and starring Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman.
sherlockr.png

If you chose Option C, you are correct! That's right, the fantastic adventures of Sherlock and Dr. Watson shall continue starting New Years Day on BBC1 and each Sunday thereafter for a whopping three further weeks (insert 'Wow! Three Whole Weeks!'s)

If you've yet to experience the pure joy of the first series, it is available on Netflix streaming and on DVD (Amazon: US and UK).

Now then, let's get to the discussion, eh! Why not start with some thoughts on the first episode, Steven Moffat's "A Study in Pink"?
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Comments

  • edited December 2011
    Oh, this isn't about Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's stories? Never mind, then....
  • edited December 2011
    WarpSpeed wrote: »
    Oh, this isn't about Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's stories? Never mind, then....

    Yes, well. I would rather not have to remind myself of the Ritchie films, and decided to make it a specific thread because the most of the discussion would come from that. I suppose the other adaptations and such would be fine (I would also love to be able to pimp out the Big Finish audio adaptations of the original Conan Doyle stories). So yeah, feel free to do so. I just felt a place to discuss Sherlock (the show) would be nice as it's moderately popular.
  • edited December 2011
    He's a better detective than Hercule Poirot.
  • edited December 2011
    I liked the first season. It left me wanting more. Don't have much more to say about it except that:

    Cumberbatch would make an excellent "young Alan Rickman" if they ever need to do a prequel to a movie featuring Alan Rickman. He's also the first guy I'd call if I needed an Alan Rickman soundalike for any sort of spinnoff media voiceover.

    Before The Beatles Rock Band came out in 2009, I felt that one of the screenshots really looked like a teaser for a detective show. Now I feel justified in thinking so. See attached.
  • edited December 2011
    I always thought that Benedict Cumberbatch would make an excellent Master, should Doctor Who decide to have the Master regenerate again. Alternatively, he would also make a good Doctor, provided that his Doctor also had a Valeyard to go with him.

    But yes, this series rocks, though I don't share the opinion on the recent Holmes movies. Or at least the first one, I haven't seen the second yet.

    Also, I would put forth "Without a Clue" as one of my favorite Holmesy stories...though if you're looking for the great detective being a great detective, it's probably not the movie you're looking for. But if you're looking for Holmes being a gambler, drunkard, womanizer, and all around idiot while Watson solves all the cases unrecognized, it's pretty damn hilarious.
  • edited December 2011
    I just watched the first episode over a friend's house tonight (so yes, good timing for the thread to pop up). I found it quite terrific, actually. When she informed me that it was a modern-day adaptation, I was somewhat disappointed, admittedly. Traditionally, modern-day adaptations of anything have failed to impress or excited me. But, in this one, it worked incredibly well, and that was due to the fact that a modern setting just happened to be the right canvas for the story to be painted on, instead of a story or concept being forcefully shoved into a modern context merely for the hell of it. The decision to set the narrative in a current time simply worked, and it wasn't some gimmicky effort to modernize a classic concept, as I half-expected it to be.

    Besides, the setting and scenery aren't what mattered most in this, anyway; it was the writing and plot, which were superbly written and cleverly conceived. And soon enough, any biased dislike or disappointment that I once towards the modern setting soon left my mind, as I became compelled by the plot and engaged by the series of events unfolding along the way.

    I really can't wait to watch the other episodes now.
  • edited December 2011
    Hayden wrote: »
    I just watched the first episode over a friend's house tonight (so yes, good timing for the thread to pop up). I found it quite terrific, actually. When she informed me that it was a modern-day adaptation, I was somewhat disappointed, admittedly. Traditionally, modern-day adaptations of anything have failed to impress or excited me. But, in this one, it worked incredibly well, and that was due to the fact that a modern setting just happened to be the right canvas for the story to be painted on, instead of a story or concept being forcefully shoved into a modern context merely for the hell of it. The decision to set the narrative in a current time simply worked, and it wasn't some gimmicky effort to modernize a classic concept, as I half-expected it to be.

    Besides, the setting and scenery aren't what mattered most in this, anyway; it was the writing and plot, which were superbly written and cleverly conceived. And soon enough, any biased dislike or disappointment that I once towards the modern setting soon left my mind, as I became compelled by the plot and engaged by the series of events unfolding along the way.

    I really can't wait to watch the other episodes now.

    It's also worth bearing in mind the new series starts (in the UK) in a few days.

    The series is fantastic, and remains the only version of sherlock holmes I enjoy (the others I've seen, with the exception of the movie, have been watchable, no more, no less.)
  • edited December 2011
    Rewatched the exemplary A Study in Pink today - just an excellent, excellent piece of Television. Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman just slip into the roles beautifully, perfect fits for the re-thought versions of each of the characters. Lastrade and Mycroft - two characters I always appreciate but I find tend to be underplayed in most Holmes fiction for some reason - are also fantastically handled, with Gatiss' portrayal of Mycroft being a show-stealer from not only the fantastic Martin Freeman, but also managing to feel like an equal to Cumberbatch's Holmes. Genius, brilliant, etc. 10/10, what have you.

    My only complaint is 'The Game is on!' - what the bleeding eck was wrong with it being afoot?

    Any thoughts on the second episode, Steve Thompson's The Blind Banker?
  • edited December 2011
    Nobody should be named Benedict Cumberbatch.
  • edited December 2011
    DAISHI wrote: »
    Nobody should be named Benedict Cumberbatch.

    There's this kid they got to appear in Doctor Who this past season legitimately named Ezekiel Wigglesworth. Why some of us aren't this lucky is beyone me.
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited December 2011
    I own the blu rays and really wasn't disappointed by this series. The "Study in Pink" starts out strong, although a little predictable (40 minutes in, my friend already knew who the killer is). Holmes and Watson are brilliantly transferred into the 21st century. Holmes is a veritable sociopath and one sometimes wonders where this will eventually lead him. It's a rather different problem than in the books, where drugs came into play whenever the detective was bored. Here, Sherlock only uses nicotine patches when he needs to concentrate - that was never one of Holmes' problems in the book. ;)

    Martin Freeman makes a formidable Watson. Conan Doyle's Watson came fresh from Afghanistan - it's sad to see that his modern counterpart can come from the same country as a soldier. Watson, mostly the voice of reason in Doyle's work, starts out in almost the same role. However his crackpot potential becomes very aware in the first movie. He and Holmes form a dangerous couple in the BBC series.

    There was some discussion among my friends as to how Holmes' deductions play out. It's been quite some years since I read the books (I was the greatest fan when I was 15), but his conclusions based on almost nothing were always ludicrously far-fetched and the series continues that tradition very nicely.

    My point of critique was mainly with the last episode, "the Great Game". I'm not familiar with the bulk of Moffat's work, having only seen some key episodes of Doctor Who, but it seems to me that he sometimes loses his instinct when a story has enough pizzazz or what have you. This third TV movie was completely overdone, started out as a mildly enjoyable case stakkato and ended up as a bad spy movie parody which desperately tried to have the most interesting/eccentric bad guy in the history of moving pictures. Moffat kills his good basic idea and the entire narrative by piling up his finale moment into an insane heap of nonsense that would undoubtedly topple if it wasn't for those equally insane amounts of glue.
  • edited December 2011
    I was avoiding commenting on the Great Game until tomorrow, but I feel the need to point out that it was written by Mark Gatiss, co-creator and actor who plays Mycroft.

    And I think it's brilliant. One of the best episodes of television ever. How it all builds to that last scene is just amazing - and the cameo from Peter Davison didn't hurt.
  • edited December 2011
    I personally thought the third episode was superb; I wasn't entirely interested in the villain of the first, and while the middle story was interesting the writing was obviously weaker.

    I've never seen the DVD, though - still waiting for the price to drop to clearance! - but I gather it has the one-hour unaired pilot on it. What's that like/how does it compare to "A Study in Pink"?
  • edited December 2011
    DAISHI wrote: »
    Nobody should be named Benedict Cumberbatch.

    On the contrary, anyone who plays Sherlock Holmes should have a name like Benedict Cumberbatch. It's the best Sherlock actor name since Basil Rathbone. :p

    I do love the new series and I think they did a fantastic job bringing Holmes into the 21st century. I'm really not surprised that it worked so well. Holmes was always meant to be a modern man. Just because he was written in the late 19th century doesn't mean he can only exist there (in fact, many of the earlier Holmes films placed him in the modern era as well). I'm definitely looking forward to season 2, I've already got the blu-ray preordered from amazon UK.

    Also, the Guy Ritchie films are really not that bad. They get a lot more right than they get wrong, particularly in the first one. Jeremy Brett remains the definitive Holmes actor though.
  • edited December 2011
    I've never seen the DVD, though - still waiting for the price to drop to clearance! - but I gather it has the one-hour unaired pilot on it. What's that like/how does it compare to "A Study in Pink"?

    It's mostly the same plot, just with tighter editing and less of the stylistic flourishes that they added to the series afterwards. There are a couple bits that I actually liked a little better in the original pilot. For example, I like that Holmes nips the whole gay theory in the bud by saying he's married to his work and finds romance to be a waste of time and brainpower. The setting of the final showdown is also a bit more interesting. But overall, the second version of the pilot is much more polished and much better.
  • edited December 2011
    For example, I like that Holmes nips the whole gay theory in the bud by saying he's married to his work and finds romance to be a waste of time and brainpower.

    I just watched Pink yesterday, and that was most certainly there in the broadcast version.
  • edited December 2011
    Ribs wrote: »
    I just watched Pink yesterday, and that was most certainly there in the broadcast version.

    You're right, I'm sorry, I got my versions mixed up. He does go into a bit more of his philosophy on it and any other non-work-related activity ("The brain is what matters. Everything else is transport.")

    One thing I do remember that I liked better about the first version of the pilot, though, is that Holmes figured out the occupation of the killer fairly quickly. I liked that because, by the time they got to the restaurant scene, I had figured it out myself. It's not good to watch a Sherlock Holmes story and feel like you know something Holmes doesn't.
  • edited December 2011
    You're right, I'm sorry, I got my versions mixed up. He does go into a bit more of his philosophy on it and any other non-work-related activity ("The brain is what matters. Everything else is transport.")

    One thing I do remember that I liked better about the first version of the pilot, though, is that Holmes figured out the occupation of the killer fairly quickly. I liked that because, by the time they got to the restaurant scene, I had figured it out myself. It's not good to watch a Sherlock Holmes story and feel like you know something Holmes doesn't.

    Yeah, upon rewatching it it's really rather obvious regarding the killer's ocupation from the first scene. Still very good television, though.

    My thoughts on the Blind Banker, though, are decidedly more negative. It just feels out of place; Steve Thompson seems to be an okay writer, but the story suffers for feeling insignificant, which would not be a problem if the series was produced in longer runs. Then again, the same problem occurred in Thompson's rather forgettable episode of Doctor Who this past season, which was much shorter and still struggled to hold viewer's attention. It's an okay story, but I feel it's lacking in mystery which is necessary in a Holmes story (thankfully, the next episode will more then make up for the lack of mystery in this one). 6/10

    I have faith in Thompson's episode this series, and find it odd that they've entrusted him with the proper adaptation of the Final Problem - a rather important story that could potentially greatly harm the series if adapted without proper skill.
  • edited December 2011
    Ribs wrote: »
    the same problem occurred in Thompson's rather forgettable episode of Doctor Who this past season, which was much shorter and still struggled to hold viewer's attention.

    In his defence, it was also badly edited, and probably badly directed as well.
  • edited December 2011
    And I thought the episode (of doctor who) was pretty awesome!
    But that's straying from the point: I wasn't a huge fan of "The blind Banker". It was definitely the weakest of the three episodes. Why, I don't really know, but it just seemed to be missing something. Maybe it was the setting I didn't like.
  • edited December 2011
    Friar wrote: »
    And I thought the episode (of doctor who) was pretty awesome!
    But that's straying from the point: I wasn't a huge fan of "The blind Banker". It was definitely the weakest of the three episodes. Why, I don't really know, but it just seemed to be missing something. Maybe it was the setting I didn't like.

    It just suffered from being non-essential and from lacking proper mystery, whereas the other two were flowing with both those traits. I don't even think it was mentioned in the Great Game!

    Speaking of, anyone else have thoughts on the final episode?

    The best line in the series may be Sherlock watching daytime TV and yelling out that he can't be the father because of the way he wears his jeans.
  • edited December 2011
    This show came on BBC America, but I never got around to watchin it. On a similar note, I got Sherlock Holmes: Nemesis for Christmas :)
  • edited December 2011
    This show came on BBC America, but I never got around to watchin it. On a similar note, I got Sherlock Holmes: Nemesis for Christmas :)

    I am sure you are well aware of Creepy Watson then.

    It's not properly airing over here until May because PBS thinks it'll do better then with the rest of the Masterpiece season (I couldn't wait that long for Great Expectations!), so we'll be forced to use other methods to keep up (my preferred is using Expat Shield to proxy yourself and then just using iPlayer).
  • edited December 2011
    Anybody hear anything more about the brilliant and brand new idea the American networks have come up with, about doing a contemporary version of Sherlock Holmes?

    (Also, BBC4 recently repeaed the Rob Brydon / David Walliams thing about a washed-up actor on a cruise with SF fans, with Steve Coogan as the actor who made it big in America as "Sherlock Holmes in Miami")
  • edited December 2011
    Anybody hear anything more about the brilliant and brand new idea the American networks have come up with, about doing a contemporary version of Sherlock Holmes?

    (Also, BBC4 recently repeaed the Rob Brydon / David Walliams thing about a washed-up actor on a cruise with SF fans, with Steve Coogan as the actor who made it big in America as "Sherlock Holmes in Miami")

    We already have two awesome detective shows in Psych and The Mentalist :)
  • edited December 2011
    House and Monk were also essentially modern-day Sherlock Holmes shows (I say past-tense because I'm thinking House is on its last legs...so to speak).
  • edited January 2012
    Only an hour and a half until A Scandel in Belgravia airs on BBC One! :)
  • edited January 2012
    Bloody hell, that last episode was amazing.

    I don't think I've ever gotten so emotional during a TV show before!
    I think I missed the part where it was explained how moriaty was acquitted. The iplayer live stream buffered into infinity so I missed the majority of the conversation with the tea.
    Anyone care to explain?
  • edited January 2012
    Friar wrote: »
    Bloody hell, that last episode was amazing.

    I don't think I've ever gotten so emotional during a TV show before!
    I think I missed the part where it was explained how moriaty was acquitted. The iplayer live stream buffered into infinity so I missed the majority of the conversation with the tea.
    Anyone care to explain?

    Moriarty
    used teh On demand on the Juror's TV's in the hotel to threaten their family
    .

    Yes. This whole past series was good. Although I really do wish we'd get one adaptation of the Final Problem
    that waits until the next adventure to resolve the death
    .

    Oh, and a third series was picked up back in July of 2010. *shakes fist* BARROWMAAAAAAN
  • edited January 2012
    Interesting... the episode written by the "weak" writer turned out to be the best of the series (although still lagging behind Series 1).

    And anybody spot, as the credits zoomed past, the cameo by Douglas Wilmer?
  • edited January 2012
    Interesting... the episode written by the "weak" writer turned out to be the best of the series (although still lagging behind Series 1).

    And anybody spot, as the credits zoomed past, the cameo by Douglas Wilmer?

    He was the one in Mycroft's club who triggered the alarm once John started talking.

    It's the direction that ruined the Blind Banker seems to be the consensus, thus explaining why this one was so much better.
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited January 2012
    GAH!! Amazon.de hasn't yet got the option up to pre-order the British Season 2 Blu Ray. Come on now. Do they want my money or not??
  • edited January 2012
    GAH!! Amazon.de hasn't yet got the option up to pre-order the British Season 2 Blu Ray. Come on now. Do they want my money or not??

    Just order it from .co.uk! :p

    Spoilers for Reichenbach, but remains relevant.
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited January 2012
    Impossible with my personal payment options... unfortunately.

    They'll get there eventually. But January doesn't seem to be my month of patience.
  • edited January 2012
    Also relevant:
    tumblr_lxw7k6Xxeb1r5z0n8o1_400.jpg
  • edited January 2012
    I just watched these episodes and I really hope they don't end it where they left it, I really don't. But if that is indeed the end, it was a great run and I will definitely be sending everyone I know off to go and watch it.

    Also, is it just me, or does the way Moriarty was portrayed really remind any one else of the Master? I kept on thinking how great those two would be as a Doctor/Master for the next generation of Doctor Who.
  • edited January 2012
    I just watched these episodes and I really hope they don't end it where they left it, I really don't. But if that is indeed the end, it was a great run and I will definitely be sending everyone I know off to go and watch it.

    Also, is it just me, or does the way Moriarty was portrayed really remind any one else of the Master? I kept on thinking how great those two would be as a Doctor/Master for the next generation of Doctor Who.

    Well, it isn't the end, there will be a third series - However, Moff/Gatiss are rather busy with Doctor Who until the end of the year, so we probably won't see it until Summertime of 2013.

    No, it isn't similar to the relationship between the Doctor and the Master. The Master, when concieved by Robert Holmes and Barry Letts, was to be the Moriarty to The Doctor's Sherlock - however, their relationship has since turned into an odd relationship more representing that reminscent of Mycroft and Sherlock, as there has not been a single occasion where the Master even comes close to winning, and isn't really a nemesis as much as a common nuisance.

    Benedict Cumberbatch should not play the Doctor because he looks too much like a thin Tom Baker. He's also already a big star so unlikely. But this thread is to discuss Sherlock, not Doctor Who!

    Theoretically, the first Episode of next series will be the Empty House, which would make sense given the odd establishing shot of one of Moriarty's assasins in the last episode. Then maybe one of the novels again, before ending with... something. I do hope they scope out a multi-series plan, though, as I would love to see three or so more series showing Sherlock age and eventually retire, which is one of my favorite parts about Sherlock Holmes - he doesn't get the grand finale, he's just a person in the end and he ends up dying a insignificant death.
  • edited January 2012
    I was more referring to the acting of Moriarty, not the character himself. He was more...crazy than I've seen in other adaptations. Or maybe that was just me.

    I still think he would make a great 12th Doctor, since going with the whole twelve regenerations/Valyard thing, he would be a good "darker" incarnation after the relatively light and bubbly 11th Doctor.

    Back on topic, I have much cheerfulness at the news that there is to be another series. I will definitely find a way to survive the upcoming apocalypse just so that I can watch series 3. And thinking of an older Sherlock, I can't help remember this physics problem I got on a final once, where I had to prescribe Sherlock Holmes a certain strength of bifocals so that he could solve the double murder of Kirk and Spock. That was a final to remember forever.

    I also had to find the half life of Unobtanium, but that's another story entirely.
  • edited January 2012
    My personal favorite way to describe Andrew Scott's Moriarty is Graham Norton from the mirror universe.
  • edited January 2012
    Ribs wrote: »
    Well, it isn't the end, there will be a third series - However, Moff/Gatiss are rather busy with Doctor Who until the end of the year, so we probably won't see it until Summertime of 2013.
    Also, Bendict will be off filming star trek soon, and Arthur Dent (sorry, I ALWAYS forget his name.) is off filming the Hobbit.
    No, it isn't similar to the relationship between the Doctor and the Master. The Master, when concieved by Robert Holmes and Barry Letts, was to be the Moriarty to The Doctor's Sherlock - however, their relationship has since turned into an odd relationship more representing that reminscent of Mycroft and Sherlock, as there has not been a single occasion where the Master even comes close to winning, and isn't really a nemesis as much as a common nuisance.
    So conquering the earth for a year and killing off 1/10th of the population counts as a nusiance? And Converting the entire human race into him and then finding the cause of his madness doesn't count as a victory? :p Plus the master killed the doctor by forcing him to fall from a great height.
    Benedict Cumberbatch should not play the Doctor because he looks too much like a thin Tom Baker. He's also already a big star so unlikely. But this thread is to discuss Sherlock, not Doctor Who!
    Peter Davison was a big name too! We want Benedict! We want Benedict!
    Theoretically, the first Episode of next series will be the Empty House, which would make sense given the odd establishing shot of one of Moriarty's assasins in the last episode. Then maybe one of the novels again, before ending with... something. I do hope they scope out a multi-series plan, though, as I would love to see three or so more series showing Sherlock age and eventually retire, which is one of my favorite parts about Sherlock Holmes - he doesn't get the grand finale, he's just a person in the end and he ends up dying a insignificant death.
    Have they done a completely original tale yet? I'd like to see them try that.

    *cough* Sherlock vs. The daleks. *cough*
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